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Durability Values Post Kuban Release

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Myself and a couple guys in my squad have been experimenting with durability and ordinance.  Found some interesting things that I haven't seen mentioned.  In short, it seems the 20mm and 23mm are bugged post kuban.

 

- 23mm and 20mm cannons seem to destroy buildings up to 20k durability, pre-kuban this number seemed to be 2k.  Is this a bug, or an intended change?

- Likewise 37mm will not destroy any building over 10k durability.  So this means while a 23mm can decimate a line of warehouses the 37 leaves them untouched.  This doesn't seem right.  I would think we wouldn't want fighters with 20's strafing warehouses and wiping them in a single pass.

- 50kg bombs seem to do as much single target damage to warehouse buildings as 500kg from 10-20k with little change.  The only thing that seems to be impacted by increases the durability in the 10-20k range is splash damage, but only very slightly. 

 

Test's were conducted on single Hangers, small/medium/large industrial warehouse blocks, and 3xdugout blocks.

 

Anyone else noticed this? Does it merit a bug report, or has it already been reported?  How are you other mission buildings dealing with these issues?

 

If I missed this being reported please post it here. Thanks all!

 

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37 minutes ago, BlackSix said:

There were very big changes, we'll try to tell you about this soon.

 

Thanks BlackSix.  I figured it just may have been a bug with the 23/20's with Kuban.  I also could just have been missing something.  I appreciate the response and your hard work! 

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Here are new durability values for the all static objects in 3.001. We were forced to make these changes for a number of reasons.
I guess you won't be able to change all objects in your old missions so I recommend to change only ground targets durability values. I did it for my previous campaigns TDoA and BS. Sea Dragons static objects already have new values.
 
Also we've updates official templates here ...\IL-2 Sturmovik\data\Template\
Please, check them.
 
500:
- Aerodrome signs

2000:
- Decoration boxes at artillery positions
- Cars

5000:
- Light trucks
- Fighters
- Aerodrome light towers
- Light grid shelters
- Aerodrome fuel depots
- All open port warehouses (bags, containers, etc.)

7000:
- IL-2, Ju 87, Bf 110, Hs 129

9000:
- Heavy trucks (Opel)
- Bombers
- All types of fuel tanks (except aerodrome small fuel depots)

10000:
- Village quarters
- Rural agro-industrial quarters
- Caponiers of artillery, tanks, machine guns, etc.

15000:
- Wagons
- Steam Locomotives
- Tanks
- Wooden bridges

25000:
- City quarters
- Railway stations
- Water towers
- Aerodrome caponiers and dugouts
- Port cranes
- Medium airfield hangars, storage and barracks, main tower

50000:
- Urban "Stalinist" quarters ("town_lrg")
- Large airfield hangar with arch vault
- Especially large industrial quarters (large warehouses, cement plant, October factory, all "_corner")
- Railway station
- Port closed warehouses
- Reinforced bridges
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Thanks BlackSix, incredibly useful information! Looks like you guys just adjusted the range of durability.   The default value of 25,000 actually makes more sense post Kuban.  Thanks again for all this info!

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Thanks BlackSix,  Has there been a change to the ships durability. We had the feeling last night the tankers are harder to kill. Its not  been tested fully, just a feeling

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Is the durability working correctly? I set the durability of an industrial block as 25000, and I was able to destroy buildings on the block by shooting at them with cannon and MGs. Previously there seemed to be a threshold after which cannons and MGs couldn’t destroy a block. I would very much like to have this threshold back.

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6 hours ago, TP_Jacko said:

Thanks BlackSix,  Has there been a change to the ships durability. We had the feeling last night the tankers are harder to kill. Its not  been tested fully, just a feeling

 

I had the same impression dealing with destroyers and cargo-ships.

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3.001 Update change log:

 

45.  Ships damage modeling has been improved, they are harder to destroy;
46.  Large ships except tankers have simulated damage control;

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2 hours ago, kendo said:

3.001 Update change log:

 

45.  Ships damage modeling has been improved, they are harder to destroy;
46.  Large ships except tankers have simulated damage control;

Thank you!

That explains it.

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Can anyone damage a torpedo boat with guns?

In all my tests they seem immune to damage - other than damage to their guns.

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On 23.03.2018 at 9:47 AM, BlackSix said:
Also we've updates official templates here ...\IL-2 Sturmovik\data\Template\
Please, check them.
 

I've checked and there are:

industrial_200x140_01 Durability = 50000;

industrial_200x140_02 Durability = 25000;

industrial_300x100_01 Durability = 25000;

industrial_300x100_02 Durability = 50000;

 

Is it a bug or similar objects have intentionally twice bigger durability? 

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On 3/26/2018 at 7:30 PM, kendo said:

3.001 Update change log:

 

45.  Ships damage modeling has been improved, they are harder to destroy;
46.  Large ships except tankers have simulated damage control;

 

I was interested in the durability values if they are at hand to add to the list.

These lists are good reference for mission builders

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@BlackSix Have you seen @LLv34_Temuri‘s post above? It’s important. Currently there’s no need to use bombs to completely destroy hangars, I hope that’s not an intended change. 

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Can someone please confirm that the durability of all the vehicles (planes,trains & automobiles) is a set figure? I see where in Object Properties dialog it states that durability values are for airfield, block, bridge, and building objects only. 

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Hi all, 
 
I set up building "graphics\buildings\bar_04.mgm" .  I created the linked entity and added an on killed event triggering a counter. 
I made some test with durability and even on 100000 the buildung got blown up by an german 250Kg direct hit and triggers the onKilled event.
 
Actually i want it to trigger at a payload of min. 500kg. Some russians ment to be in the warehouse in rugged defense and german groundforce
call close air support to break any resistance.

 

Anybody got an idea how i could solve this?

 

I set also some sdkfz to shot at the building for immersion and Flak mounted on SdKfz just destroyed the building.

 

Edited by Professor_Henry

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Doesn't look like it's possible Henry if it's reporting destroyed at the values you mention with that ordinance.

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5 hours ago, Professor_Henry said:

Nobody? Do i need some fancy banners to get reply here?

What if nobody knows how to solve your problem? Did you think about it or maybe you demand that everyone reply you "I have no idea how to solve your problem"?

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Begging your pardon.

 

How can people give recommendations about Durability Values if they dont know about this problem?

 

Either they didnt try at least to drop an bomb on buildings withs different values you posted and dont know that all values are the same to an bomb or i got some bug.

If i have an bug, it would be polite that people let me know that for them its working.

 

You see?

 

 

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On 3/26/2018 at 9:41 PM, Gambit21 said:

Can anyone damage a torpedo boat with guns?

In all my tests they seem immune to damage - other than damage to their guns.

 

 

I was curious how effective a Lagg with 23mm ammo could be against shipping so tried it offline. It was not so good against subs & armoured patrol boats but against torpedo boats the results were spectacular. Probably the most satisfying bank per buck in the game :-)

 

When I started the video, I had already done a pass on the first boat so it does not prove much to see it explode with a couple of hits but the second boat was undamaged and you can see that after one not very effective pass it looked only slightly damaged but was was already sinking before I could make a second attack. I went on to kill another before running out of ammo. Against big cargo ships it will do fatal damage but it takes a full clip to get one burning (or maybe I just did not hit the right places)

 

 

 

 

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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Thanks for posting that.

Mind trying it with an A-20?

 

I've watched AI attack them over and over with seemingly no effect.

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I'm trying to understand current durability system and how Damage: (Threshold|Step) works but it's not behaving like in the description of "IL-2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Manual" by @JimTM.(see below)

 

My simple mission just has a single player plane attacking block/building objects with cannons and or bombs which then triggers a onscreen message when either the "onDamage" or "onKilled" events occur using "translator:Subtitle" MCU's

 

In relation to building and block objects and the problem:
The "onDamage" event does not seem to depend at all on the values used in the Damage: (Threshold|Step) "damage Report" value property of the object.


I've tried using both threshold and step, and neither makes any difference to when the OnDamage event gets triggered. It just seems to trigger any damage registered. Machine guns do no damage but bombs and cannons will trigger the "onDamage" event. One single cannon shell will trigger the "onDamage" event regardless of values set here.

 

I made a simple mission to test this with 3 different block/building objects.
  Two "blocks\arf_hangararc.mgm" with different "Damage (step)" values &
  One "buildings\okt_04.mgm" with another "Damage (step)" value

 

Current "damage Report" step values are 20 and 50, but I've tried 1 and 99 also with the max durability you can set.

 

None of these different values seemed to have any impact on when the "onDamage" event is trigged.
I tried also changing building durability and it made no impact.

 

I've included the simple mission , so if its not an obvious answer someone can test this themselves.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong. (Mission: "TestObjectDamage.zip" included below)

 

Can someone explain why its not working as described in the manual above?

Thanks
Stix_09

 

Related info from manual
image.png.2c517ddc590197cedc9b87e3ddeefb47.png
Mission layout
image.png.7df0b8b3a5c02a5355dd7c3b15d26182.png

 

 

TestObjectDamage.zip

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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33 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

I'm trying to understand current durability system and how Damage: (Threshold|Step) works but it's not behaving like in the description of "IL-2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Manual" by @JimTM.(see below)

...

In relation to building and block objects and the problem:
The "onDamage" event does not seem to depend at all on the values used in the Damage: (Threshold|Step) "damage Report" value property of the object.


I've tried using both threshold and step, and neither makes any difference to when the OnDamage event gets triggered. It just seems to trigger any damage registered. Machine guns do no damage but bombs and cannons will trigger the "onDamage" event. One single cannon shell will trigger the "onDamage" event regardless of values set here.

...

Can someone explain why its not working as described in the manual above?

Thanks
Stix_09

...

 

I suspect that this may be a version of the way OnKilled event messages work, i.e., some objects are made up of multiple parts and each part can generate an OnKilled message. In this case, it may be that each part can also generate an OnDamaged message. For more details re. the OnKilled scenario, see this post and the updated info linked in it.

 

This could get messy, as one WoL mission I looked at had to add up OnKilled messages from 22 different objects at the target (made up of a total of 110 parts) to determine that the target was destroyed.

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59 minutes ago, JimTM said:

This could get messy, as one WoL mission I looked at had to add up OnKilled messages from 22 different objects at the target (made up of a total of 110 parts) to determine that the target was destroyed.


Ya I was suspecting this for multi building structures... I did test that with an 8 building single object structure , and it seemed to be the case (8 kill messages) before further building damage generated no further "onkilled" messages.

I guess it means mission builder will need to pick multi-building structures with clear destroy-able object, so its easy to identify what to hit to destroy a target.

But on damaged events for buildings seems to be broken(not functioning as it should in regards to durability and Damage: (Threshold|Step) "damage Report" values. I also suspect some objects to have some kind of armor value (or need an explosive component) which is why machine guns have no impact but cannons do (again depending on the object in question.

 

All the building in my above mission could be destroyed with just a bunch of cannon rounds. Would need to do further testing to confirm how others react to different  type of weapons.

I also found an object in testing even a 1800kg bomb would not damage ("buildings\boosterstation.mgm") , which suggests either a bug or some objects are not able to be destroyed or damaged. another example is "buildings\rechnoy.mgm"

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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@BlackSixIt appears buildings have become more resistant to bombs in 3.010. Do you know what are the new recommended values?

Edited by coconut

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And it's still possible to destroy buildings with high durability by shooting at them with 20 mm cannons.

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Personally I wire up all the buildings to an onKilled counter, then tweak the total required by looking at what an AI flight needs to destroy to trigger the counter. Sometimes I’ll segment the buildings into clumps and do the same thing. Sometimes I do logic like “4 big warehouses must be killed”. So far I haven’t been too specific with individual buildings. 

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