Developer Diary, Part 173 - Discussion

[Finkeren]

How many P-40E's were in service with the VVS during the time of BoM? Or Fw190A-3's in BoS? The MK108 pretty much exactly fits into that line.

Hopefully they will at least purge the P-40 and MC.202 from the Moscow career. The Fw 190s over Stalingrad I can sorta live with.

[LLv24_Zami]

How many P-40E's were in service with the VVS during the time of BoM? Or Fw190A-3's in BoS? The MK108 pretty much exactly fits into that line.

Afaik, Fw-190 was in service on eastern front at the time of BoS, not in the Stalingrad though. MK108 was available in the east after BoK. Don`t know about the P-40.

 

 

Hopefully they will at least purge the P-40 and MC.202 from the Moscow career. The Fw 190s over Stalingrad I can sorta live with.

I think the squadrons follow approximately their historical setups. I really hope so. 

[MrNoice]

gib mk108 

[mb339pan]

the  german "MG131 13mm"  has like the  italy  "Breda-SAFAT 12.7mm" a very low bullet velocity ... 

 

no man, MG131 have 900 round/min, SAFAT on Macchi have only 575 rounds/min, The weapon on 202 has always been the real weak point, and in fact the 205 had MG151 gunpods

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

How many P-40E's were in service with the VVS during the time of BoM? Or Fw190A-3's in BoS? The MK108 pretty much exactly fits into that line.

P-40E fits Stalingrad and Kuban, Fw-190A-3 fits Velikye Luki and Kuban, C.202 fits Stalingrad. The Mk 108 fits a whole lot of nothing in the scope of this simulator so far.

Edited September 29, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

It saw first operational service in late autumn 1943 with the Bf 110G-2 bomber destroyers

Not true.

With Bf109G-2 it March 1944.

[Jade_Monkey]

Hopefully they will at least purge the P-40 and MC.202 from the Moscow career. The Fw 190s over Stalingrad I can sorta live with.

But why do that? just leave them for those who want to play them and you can play the more historical version by selecting other units. This is not a zero sum game.

 

Edit: typo

Edited September 29, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[LLv24_Zami]

But why do that? just leave them for those who want to play them and you can play the more historical version by selexting other units. This is not a zero sum game.

You`re right. More options are better.

[Cpt_Cool]

Also no one seems to mind the wing mounted cannons on the MC.202. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought those were heavily experimental no? Only one airplane ever had them mounted yes? As long as the devs can model the 30 mm without too much extra trouble, I think it is a great design choice. The more options the better, and servers/individuals can allow them or lock them as they see fit. It will only help to sell copies of the G6 too.

[Finkeren]

But why do that? just leave them for those who want to play them and you can play the more historical version by selexting other units. This is not a zero sum game.

The problem is not so much that you can fly planes that don't fit the theater and timeframe, as you said: Just don't fly them.

 

The problem is, that if fictional squads with anachronistic aircraft are added to the career, then they will also show up as AI aircraft in the missions generated - regardless if you want them to be there or not.

 

In the campaign mode I can hardly ever fly a mission in the BoM campaign without running into P-40s and the BoS campaign is swarming with MC.202 which flew something like a dozen missions total during that battle. I hope we can be free from that in the career.

[lurch9494]

Fantastic!  Please get the Pre-Order up for the G-6 so you can 'Take my Money'

 

Thanks team, awesome stuff as usual :D

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Also no one seems to mind the wing mounted cannons on the MC.202. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought those were heavily experimental no? Only one airplane ever had them mounted yes? As long as the devs can model the 30 mm without too much extra trouble, I think it is a great design choice. The more options the better, and servers/individuals can allow them or lock them as they see fit. It will only help to sell copies of the G6 too.

There are a few loadouts which go beyond historical accuracy, the 20mm on the C.202 (which did terribly during tests and never saw action or production) and the 23/37mm guns on the LaGG-3 (which saw very limited use, and as far as I recall were only fitted in series other than the 29th) being good examples.

 

Personally I think these should be avoided to the maximum because they create scenarios that just weren't realistic and also install bad habits on pilots. Barely anyone loads the good old ShVAK on the LaGG-3 for example even if it's still a mother of a cannon, instead people appear to forget how to shoot unless there's a 23mm gun on the nose.

[LLv24_Zami]

I was more thinking about an menu option for the career, use historical setup or fictional one adding those extra planes.

 

If that's not possible, it should absolutely go with the historical setup.

[LLv24_Zami]

There are a few loadouts which go beyond historical accuracy, the 20mm on the C.202 (which did terribly during tests and never saw action or production) and the 23/37mm guns on the LaGG-3 (which saw very limited use, and as far as I recall were only fitted in series other than the 29th) being good examples.

 

Personally I think these should be avoided to the maximum because they create scenarios that just weren't realistic and also install bad habits on pilots. Barely anyone loads the good old ShVAK on the LaGG-3 for example even if it's still a mother of a cannon, instead people appear to forget how to shoot unless there's a 23mm gun on the nose.

Agree on this. Those setups should've been left out, as any experimental stuff. In this case more options are not better imo.

[FlyingNutcase]

Guys,

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Selling mugs and t-shirts is a logistical nightmare. We have customers all over the world. Shipping a package to out of the way places is a pain in the ass and won't generate a profi just a headache for me.

 

Jason

 

There are services set up to do all the work - it's how a lot of YouTubers for example create a 2nd income stream. It should be on autopilot once the designs are submitted. So given that...? 

[LLv34_Wmaker]

There are a few loadouts which go beyond historical accuracy, the 20mm on the C.202 (which did terribly during tests and never saw action or production) and the 23/37mm guns on the LaGG-3 (which saw very limited use, and as far as I recall were only fitted in series other than the 29th) being good examples.

 

Personally I think these should be avoided to the maximum because they create scenarios that just weren't realistic and also install bad habits on pilots. Barely anyone loads the good old ShVAK on the LaGG-3 for example even if it's still a mother of a cannon, instead people appear to forget how to shoot unless there's a 23mm gun on the nose.

 

I somewhat agree with you on that but considering that the cat is already out of the back, it would actually be more consistent modelling decision to include the MK108 than not include keeping in mind what is in the game already.

 

I'm bit torn regarding these no-so-historical load outs. On one hand I'd like to avoid the what if fantasy they create, on the other hand they are simply fun toys for an aireal warfare enthusiast to play with and can be disabled on servers.

 

As a collectors plane, it is simply good business to include it.

Edited September 29, 2017 by LLv34_Wmaker

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

37mm guns on the LaGG-3

37-mm equipped LaGG-3's participated in Battle of Stalingrad. Last aircraft left the area in late november 1942. But for VYa, yes, no historical eveidence of 23mm on LaGGs on the front. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

But were any of them of the type we have (M-105PF, no slats, fixed tail wheel)?

[LLv44_Kanttori]

FINNISH VIRTUAL PILOTS THANK YOU DEVS!                             

Edited September 29, 2017 by LLv32_Kanttori

[707shap_Srbin]

But were any of them of the type we have (M-105PF, no slats, fixed tail wheel)?

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/5913-lagg-3-29-serii-s-sh-37-naskolko-istoricheski-dostover/

[Haza]

Just popped into the Australian War Memorial this morning to look at the BF109 G-6.  This G6 apparently still has the original camouflage.

Nice aircraft.

 

Regards

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Messerschmitt_Bf_109s#/media/File:Me_109G-6_U4_R3_Werknummer_163824.jpg

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

New planes are always welcome and the best way to support the game development.

 

My bet is we won't have the 30mm cannon.

I think the 30mm is a possibility but the Erla canopy is probably out of the question.

 

Edit: I have zero access to any of my reference materials until Sunday and the interwebs are useless. Is the 30mm historically available with a standard framed canopy or only with the Erla canopy?

Edited September 30, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Juri_JS]

That's over Germany though, correct? From what I recall it only really made it to the Soviet Union closer to 1944.

According to the "Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen" for various eastern front fighter units the first G-6/U4 with MK108 did only arrive in late summer/autumn 1944 in the east.

[707shap_Srbin]

And yes, here is a table of G-6 production:

 

 

 

The Bf 109 G-6/U4 was a sub-series of the G-6 that was fitted with a 3 cm MK 108 as centrally mounted weapon instead of the regular 2 cm MG 151/20. It was built by WNF, the planned production figure for 1943 being 800 - or 810 according to another official source -, beginning in May 1943 with the delivery of the first two a/c. The actual production figure was considerably lower, in fact only 181 Bf 109 G-6/U4 being delivered until the end of 1943. 

E-Stelle Tarnewitz was given the task to instal and assess the MK 108 in the Bf 109 G-6, beginning in June 1943. They handled two pre-series, the first of 27 a/c, the second of almost the same number of a/c. The first deliveries began in the second half of July, the 27 a/c of the first pre-sereis being delivered to front line units until August 22nd, 1943 with the second pre-series being completely delivered until October 23rd, 1943.

 

 

Erla haube:

 

 

 Erla Haube or Vollsichtskanzel: developed in the second half of 1943, implemented by late 1943/early 1944. There are no known photos of Erla Hauben before April 1944, which is quite late indeed... Photographic evidences do show them on Erla produced machines, be they G-5's or G-6. The generalisation of their use on Mtt or WNF produced machines is not before Summer 1944.

 

[HBB*Hunger]

Question for Devs: Will the Coop-Mode be implemented into the career mode?

[FlyingNutcase]

Question for Devs: Will the Coop-Mode be implemented into the career mode?

 

Glad you asked. This is such a key question I'm afraid to hear the answer. There is sooo much difference between being "stuck" in a single player experience and having even a single friend join in as the opportunity arises. But I'm sure it would be very cool on a squad level too.

 

Fingers crossed on this one. 

[Guest deleted@50488]

Regarding this week's DD, well, what can I say other than "IL- BoX has been surprising me always for the Positive since I embarked on it ... "

 

It's a Superb Flight Simulator, and, I am sure, also a Superb Combat SImulator, although that facet is not the one I concentrate more in...

 

Oh, if just one day 1C 777 could just show an hint of their great work on an aerobtic airplane, even a "modern" Yak-5x, Su-26....

 

It's unique - "flying" in IL2 BoX IS UNIQUE!

[Yogiflight]

What I still would like to know is, will it be a real career, so the player starting with the lowest flying rank, as a wingman?

And what about fuel and weapon loadout? Will the player be able to select the fuel quantity and the weapons for his mission? Or are the weapons given by the game according to the infos the Devs have about the RL sorties.

And about the G6, I thought the G6 would have the 'Galland Panzer' glass head armor, but in those pics there is the steel armor? are there any infos, when the 'Galland Panzer' was used?

[707shap_Srbin]

Some photoes of Bf109G-6 in Autumn 1943 show Gallandpanzer. So, I belive, it would be implemented as a modification. 

 

 

 

 

Bf 109 G'6 W.Nr. unknown "Weisse ?", Lt Günter Kremer, 4./JG 53, location unknown, Italy, Summer 1943. Source: eBay auction via facebook.com.

 

 

 

 

 

Bf 109 G-5 W.Nr. unknown "Schwarze ?", 5./JG 3, Amsterdam-Schipol. 5 November 1943. Source: facebook.com.

 

 

 

 

 

Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr 140 239 "Schwarzer Doppelwinkel", Hptm Duellberger, Gruppenkommandeur III./JG 27, Wiesbaden-Erbenheim, September 1943. Source: Asisbiz website.

 

 

 

 

Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. unknown "Schwarzer Winkel", Lt. Johannes Wiese, Staffelkapitän 2./JG 52, Eastern front, 17 July 1943. Source: Barbas 1995, p. 203.

 

Many photoes show Gallandpanzer in winter 1943/44.

Edited September 30, 2017 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[LLv24_Zami]

Gallandpanzer is an option for the G-2, so I would be very surprised if it`s left out for G-6.

[MrNoice]

can the devs give a statement about the 30mm MK 108 ?

[Blitzen]

Speaking as one of the first sign one for this sim I am delighted the designers gave up on earning options for each plane playing campaign mode very few if I recall liked the idea and some of the FMs esp the FW-190s using FFB sticks made it virtually impossible to upgrade We're lucky now to have all the upgrade options included in the new ship. BTW sign me up for the new 109 and all the surprises in the upcoming month The crew here is making the BoX series live up to its promise!

[Yogiflight]

 

 

Gallandpanzer is an option for the G-2, so I would be very surprised if it`s left out for G-6.

I don't doubt this. My question was more about, from which date on the armor glass protection should be used in the campaign and if it is maybe fix in the campaign, that from day X your G6 is equipped with it by default.

[Feathered_IV]

Guys,

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Selling mugs and t-shirts is a logistical nightmare. We have customers all over the world. Shipping a package to out of the way places is a pain in the ass and won't generate a profi just a headache for me.

 

Jason

 

 

[Edited]

Edited October 2, 2017 by Bearcat

[MrNoice]

[Edited] lool

Edited October 2, 2017 by Bearcat

[LukeFF]

Is there any data on when radio direction finding equipment began to be equipped in G-6s? The pictures show the loop antenna, so that leads me to believe it will at least be a modification option.

[TheBlackPenguin]

Guys,

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Selling mugs and t-shirts is a logistical nightmare. We have customers all over the world. Shipping a package to out of the way places is a pain in the ass and won't generate a profi just a headache for me.

 

Jason

 

 

Hello Jason,

 

Frontier developments use this service for a merchandise designer:

 

https://www.spreadshirt.com/start-selling-shirts-C3598#?redirectFrom=en_GB&redirectToken=start-selling-C5780&affiliateId=1207353

 

Here is an example:

 

https://www.frontierstore.net/designer/elite-dangerous.html

 

Probably a lot of other services out there, just food for thought .

[Recon]

great news - fingers crossed we get another update on the p40 - should be able to use better than 'civilian' power settings.

[FlyingNutcase]

Hello Jason,

 

Frontier developments use this service for a merchandise designer:

 

https://www.spreadshirt.com/start-selling-shirts-C3598#?redirectFrom=en_GB&redirectToken=start-selling-C5780&affiliateId=1207353

 

Here is an example:

 

https://www.frontierstore.net/designer/elite-dangerous.html

 

Probably a lot of other services out there, just food for thought .

 

Nice links Penguim.

 

This is very cool - you actually get to create your own look & feel based off supplied designs (or your own). Some very useful products there like, hmm a woman's shopping bag ("Happy Birthday my darling!"), baby hat, doggie bandana and... a teddie bear.    

 

No excuses now Jason Williams - this has to happen!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Lads, I've used Spreadshirt a few times at work.

 

No doubt it's handy but the margins are ridiculously small and while it sort of solves the logistical problems operating such a store still has costs in manhours to make sure everything is going smoothly, customer service and designing the products. The bottom line is there is little chance of this bringing extra money and a decent chance of it becoming a headache.

 

A personal suggestion, if anyone wants merchandise that helps the devs just design your own WW2 aviation merch which doesn't infringe 1C:GS intellectual property and use all profits to purchase copies of Battle of Stalingrad to be given away to users who don't own any of the titles yet. That way they can try out the game and buy the rest once they're hooked, people get their mugs and all, the devs get money and avoid a headache.