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VKB Gunfighter + MCG Pre-Ordering starts October 1, 2017

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I really like the thumb 5 way hat on the MCG Pro. Super useful. I'm running gun groups on the two stage trigger.

 

Just swapped my stick to the 30 cams. Might switch the roll axis back to the 10 Cam as I'm not liking the bump transition for that axis. Might keep the pitch with the bump as I find that on 50# spring weight, I move out of centre too easy when checking 6 in VR. Slow process to change springs and cams.

 

Final test might be a move to 70# worth of springs on both 10cams, but I'm concerned about it not holding centre well enough still for checking 6.

Edited by =TBAS=Tripwire

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The dual stage trigger would definately work for gun groups, the only reason why i'm not doing that, is because i fly ground attack alot and there i often just want to fire cannons only. But maybe i'll set it up like that anyway, because i currently have no other use for the trigger.

 

I haven't tested the different cams or springs on the Gunfighter yet, but the cams are the same as on the Gladiator Pro and there the 30 cams didn't really work for me, because the center detent was just too strong and didn't reall allow fine movements around the center position. It's better suited for jets i think. It would be great to have a cam between the 10 and 30 cams, more like a soft center detent.

 

By default, the non-Pro Gunfighter has the 20 springs, i think i'll increase it to 40 or 30. But i'll wait for the mounting plate for the Monster Tech mount before i make any final adjustments.

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Yeah a "20" cam might have been good.

Running 10 on Roll and 30 on pitch and I am liking it. I can tell if I am centered for pitch now, which was a problem previously as I couldn't tell if I was trimmed or not and loosing potential speed.

Still missing a huge number of shots due to the change from desk stick to extension. But then it took me 3 weeks after getting rudder pedals to start getting back to being where I was with a twist stick at the time. Mainly fast movements I am still not compensating enough for the throw distance of the joystick now.

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I finally decided after much debating in my head, to go ahead and get the MCG Pro grip. Might as well have two good quality sticks, especially as I already have the Gunfighter Pro still sitting here still new in the box, have had it for quite some time. I will place the order for MCG Pro as soon as they are available again for North America.

 

Ordered the Monster Tech Extended Mount for it this morning, hoping I will have both around the same time.

 

I will be curious to see how it compares to my Virpil setup.

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Can't wait until the 15th of Feb to buy mine! Will a Warthog Throttle work with this or will in conflict the inputs in game?

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Can't wait until the 15th of Feb to buy mine! Will a Warthog Throttle work with this or will in conflict the inputs in game?

 

It will work just fine, as the Warthog Throttle is a complete separate controller.

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I'm running gun groups on the two stage trigger.

 

I keep trying to use weapon groups on the two-stage trigger, but I find that I just keep pulling the trigger all the way, far too easily. Makes me wish there was more of a transition between the two stages. 

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If you prefer the flip down trigger you can define points along its axis as being additional stages. It has a longer throw so you could set group 1 real early and group 2 very late along the axis?

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If you prefer the flip down trigger you can define points along its axis as being additional stages. It has a longer throw so you could set group 1 real early and group 2 very late along the axis?

 

That is a good thought - I'll give that a try.

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That is a good thought - I'll give that a try.

 

Well, that didn't work too well - with setting Group 1 at the "top end" of the axis, Group 1 will fire in both directions, i.e., when squeezing the trigger down and then flipping it back up. 

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The Gunfighter MCG with stick extension I ordered a while back finally arrived last week. Got around to setting up the springs (#50) keeping the non-indent cams.

 

Now I have to figure out how to attach it comfortably to something, and re-assign all of my key presses to it and a new X56 throttle since the X55 throttle and stick have been deteriorating since this past summer.

 

Probably should have gone with the 14 button version rather than the 24 button because between the stick and the X56 throttle there aren't enough commands to assign.

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The Gunfighter MCG with stick extension I ordered a while back finally arrived last week. Got around to setting up the springs (#50) keeping the non-indent cams.

 

Now I have to figure out how to attach it comfortably to something, and re-assign all of my key presses to it and a new X56 throttle since the X55 throttle and stick have been deteriorating since this past summer.

 

Probably should have gone with the 14 button version rather than the 24 button because between the stick and the X56 throttle there aren't enough commands to assign.

 

Exact same setup. As I state in my video review, between IL2 and X-Plane 11 for airliner simming, I cannot imagine what use I'd get out of the extra buttons on the pro. The bigger issue is some of the button placements, not more buttons.

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The Gunfighter MCG with stick extension I ordered a while back finally arrived last week. Got around to setting up the springs (#50) keeping the non-indent cams.

 

Now I have to figure out how to attach it comfortably to something, and re-assign all of my key presses to it and a new X56 throttle since the X55 throttle and stick have been deteriorating since this past summer.

 

Probably should have gone with the 14 button version rather than the 24 button because between the stick and the X56 throttle there aren't enough commands to assign.

 

Curious as to how you like running the #50 springs.

 

I have an extended Monster Tech Mount on order for my Gunfighter with extension. I still need to order the MCG grip when it becomes available again. Not sure if I will go for the Pro or the regular.

 

Fyi VKB mentioned they are working on a desk mount, no time table given though they teased may be soon. They also showed a pic of what appears to be it as well with a stick mounted.

Edited by dburne

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How are people liking the dampers on the (rev B.) Gunfighter base?

 

I'm curious if it's worth it to just go ahead and get an entire base/stick combo, even though I currently own a Black Mamba Mk.III Edition. I do love my Mk.III, but improvement is never a bad thing.

 

Has anybody tried both?

Edited by Warpig

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On 1/16/2018 at 7:06 PM, Warpig said:

How are people liking the dampers on the (rev B.) Gunfighter base?

 

I'm curious if it's worth it to just go ahead and get an entire base/stick combo, even though I currently own a Black Mamba Mk.III Edition. I do love my Mk.III, but improvement is never a bad thing.

 

Has anybody tried both?

I can't compare straight right now because i've got my Mamba Mk.III dissasembled. I'm using only rotation knobs right now.

GunF Mk.I and Mamba Mk.III are pretty the same, maybe the cam's feels a litte different but it's hard to judge over time.

 

EDIT: GunF Mk.I and Mamba Mk.III  both have the same CAM shape. The bolt holding the spring is different, in GunF the bolt is adapted to

hold double spring setup so its easier to setup double spring on one CAM in GunF.

 

Personally i don't like the clutch system from GunF. You can only use a small amount of "clutching force" to have smooth movement.

From my experinence with VKB Gunfighter the clutch system is not a good option for fixed wing.

I like to do technical stuff changing setups etc. I've tried different settings many, many, times and finally turnded off clutch system complettly (I don't fly helos).

 

It's hard to describe the feel...but clutch removes smoothness. It can be compared it to unscrewing a valve. The rotation of the valve is

jumpy when You overcome the tightening, friction force. So clutches generates stickinnes feeling istead of a dense heaviness

of the air and wire mechanics, i think the old good dense grease is a better solution for immitating "air effect".

Sticking rubber stripes on metal cam's also generates more organic feel than clutches IMO.

Clutches removes smoothens. You are fightting with a friction of the clutch, when the stick starts to move you exagguerate the movement

caused by the floopynes around center CAM so you can only use small amount of clutch friction setup.

 

Other thing is how long the VKB will be supporting Mambas with new grips...Personnaly i would stay with Mamba and wait for the next edition of GunF.

GunF have an issue with bending bolt in gimbal and there is no offical statement form VKB regarding safe spring force, so this is the main reason to hold on.

Edited by Piekarz

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I can't compare straight right now because i've got my Mamba Mk.III dissasembled. I'm using only rotation knobs right now.

GunF Mk.I and Mamba Mk.III are pretty the same, maybe the cam's feels a litte different but it's hard to judge over time.

 

Personally i don't like the clutch system from GunF. You can only use a small amount of "clutching force" to have smooth movement.

From my experinence with VKB Gunfighter the clutch system is not a good option for fixed wing.

I like to do technical stuff changing setups etc. I've tried different settings many, many, times and finally turnded off clutch system complettly (I don't fly helos).

 

It's hard to describe the feel...but clutch removes smoothness. It can be compared it to unscrewing a valve. The rotation of the valve is

jumpy when You overcome the tightening, friction force. So clutches generates stickinnes feeling istead of a dense heaviness

of the air and wire mechanics, i think the old good dense grease is a better solution for immitating "air effect".

Sticking rubber stripes on metal cam's also generates more organic feel than clutches IMO.

Clutches removes smoothens. You are fightting with a friction of the clutch, when the stick starts to move you exagguerate the movement

caused by the floopynes around center CAM so you can only use small amount of clutch friction setup.

 

Other thing is how long the VKB will be supporting Mambas with new grips...Personnaly i would stay with Mamba and wait for the next edition of GunF.

GunF have an issue with bending bolt in gimbal and there is no offical statement form VKB regarding safe spring force, so this is the main reason to hold on.

Thanks I appreciate the input. You got me reconsidering now.

 

I guess the only other thing that annoys me about the Mk.III, is the controls all around the base. I don't use them, and they only get in the way, but it's not really too much of an issue.

 

When you refer to the clutch system, you are talking about the dampers, correct? Can they be disabled?

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When you refer to the clutch system, you are talking about the dampers, correct? Can they be disabled?

Yes. You can "unscrew the screws" to turn off the dampening force. I've read on VKB forums  that You can also dismount the whole clutch system parts but there's no need to do that. Loosing up two nuts turns off the friction completely (with newer Mk.II it can be done without disassembling the base - holes int the base for the screwdriver).

Edited by Piekarz

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Yes. You can "unscrew the screws" to turn off the dampening force. I've read on VKB forums  that You can also dismount the whole clutch system parts but there's no need to do that. Loosing up two nuts turns off the friction completely (with newer Mk.II it can be done without disassembling the base - holes int the base for the screwdriver).

 

Oh man, I knew I ordered my Gunfighter way too early. Course back then the MCG  was due in like May lol.

Would have been a nice feature for easy adjustments. ( kind of like Virpil has with the screen tensioner screw adjustments on top of base).

Edited by dburne

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You still have to disassemble the rubber boot part. So 5 screws. Then it's still pretty tought to adjust without taking the grip off the base.

 

I would've preferred to be able to adjust the clutches from the bottom by just disassembling the base plate. Just four screws and you could keep the grip attached, would be more convenient i think.

 

But in any case, i tested the clutches a little bit and have now set them to fully lose. But that's without extension of course with extension they might make more sense.

Edited by Matt

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But in any case, i tested the clutches a little bit and have now set them to fully lose. But that's without extension of course with extension they might make more sense.

You bring up a good point. I don't currently use an extension either.

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Someone informed me the video was randomly cut out. Turns out YouTube broke my video and cut off half of it out, so I've fixed it for anyone interested.

 

Edited by GridiroN

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But in any case, i tested the clutches a little bit and have now set them to fully lose. But that's without extension of course with extension they might make more sense.

 

Yeah, I used mine for a while with the clutches fairly tight, but I finally got tired of the stickiness, because it made it too hard to make smooth movements. I still have some tension on them now but not nearly as much. 

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Just got it.  I'm a little nervous about taking a screwdriver to it so I have not yet adjusted anything.  I'll get over it one day I suppose. Feels better than my 10 year old CH stick so it's an upgrade :).  I like the tighter feel and the greater force required at the edge of the range of motion.  

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Just got it.  I'm a little nervous about taking a screwdriver to it so I have not yet adjusted anything.  

 

 

You need adjust at least the "Dry Clutch", they are tightened for transportation purpose.

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Mine is due to arrive Friday.... W00t w00t! :D

 

In the meantime, how about a review Pat? :)

Edited by Beazil

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I'm probably the wrong person for a comprehensive review as I am fairly clueless.  OTOH I can give a review from a clueless point of view, which might have value for other non-power users.

 

Delivery:

A small delay for a firmware change.  Once that was resolved the item was shipped and delivered as expected and came boxed properly. 

 

Assembly:

Instructions included in the box were awful.  Pretty much unusable.  YouTube to the rescue.

Once I had a YouTube video assembly only took minutes.  Four screws to attach to the base to the plate and one odd clip to attach the grip to the base.  It was inserting the clip that took the most time because you have to know to unscrew it, put one half in each side of the hole, and then reinsert the screw to tighten it.  Not hard but not intuitive either.

 

After I plugged in the stick the for the first time the game did not recognize it.  The OS did but the buttons did not work.  Noticed that the "stick" light on the ... transformer? ... was flashing red.  More googling.  With the stick plugged in I detached the grip, reset it until the light turned green and then tightened it again.  Now the OS sees a properly working stick.

 

Game still does not recognize the stick.  However, now that I have working buttons I can try mapping.  Upon mapping it becomes clear that the new stick did not replace the old one but was added as a new device (Joystick 3 instead of 2).  So I go through all of my mappings, deleting the old and setting the new.  All good.  Now the stick is working with the game.

 

Total time from opening box to flying probably about 1 hour.

 

Flying:

So I am coming from an 8 year old CH stick to this one.  Major improvement.  Love the extra force required to move the stick to the limits.  Very precise.  I am using the default springs and cams and I'm happy enough.  Initial thought is "I'm happy with it".

 

Changing springs and cams.  Downloaded instructions from the VKB website which are much better than what came in the box.  Seems straight forward but I am just not interested in disassembling the entire base to do it.  

 

Overall I'm very happy with it.  If it lasts n number of years it will be a good buy.

Edited by PatrickAWlson

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Thanks Pat. That was a good read and I appreciate the time you took to do it. I hope you enjoy and I will post my thoughts in this thread as soon as I am able. S!

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Game still does not recognize the stick.  However, now that I have working buttons I can try mapping.  Upon mapping it becomes clear that the new stick did not replace the old one but was added as a new device (Joystick 3 instead of 2).  So I go through all of my mappings, deleting the old and setting the new.  All good.  Now the stick is working with the game.

 

This is normal, unless War Thunder that have some joystick models pre-assigned in their controls no other "flight game" recognize and assign joystick buttons automatically - DCSW try do this, but most time mess things and the feature more hinder than help. :)

 

Since different joysticks brands use different VID/PID numbers and Windows enumerate joysticks (joystick 1, joystick 2...) based in that numbers, replace joystick most times require buttons reassignment in games, not considering than different joysticks has different number of buttons/layout. :)

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Agree Sokol - just a new experience for me so it required some fumbling.  To give others a leg up I would suggest the following:

 

1. Download instructions from VKB downloads.  They are much better than the boxed instructions.

2. If  that is still not clear find a YouTube video (don't have a lnk handy)

3. Assemble the stick.  it really is four screws, one odd connector, and screwing in the stick to transformer and transformer to computer.  Really just 5 minutes.

4. Plug it in.  Check the light on the transformer.  If blinking red, loosen the handle and reset until it is green.  The stick motion is all about the base so that will work.  The buttons are about the connection between the grip and the base, so that is probably the most common source of issues with the buttons.

5. With a plugged in stick with a green light, get into the game.

6. Wipe out any/all settings related to your old joystick and reset them using the new one.

7. Fly.

 

If i had done everything without fumbling I probably could have gone from unboxing to flying in 15 minutes. 

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Piekarz, yup, I agree wholeheartedly with your clutch design comments. I even went as far as applied a very very thick layer of silicon and synthetic grease on the surfaces of the clutch plastic pieces and it still couldn't smooth out the 'stickiness' feel. So I simply loosened them completely.

 

 

Also, for the GunFighter Pro owners new and old:

 

- in my opinion there's a design flaw in a Pitch roller assembly.

- the main bolt that holds the roller bearing (bearing that works against the the pitch cam) is not rigid enough to withstand the pushing forces when equipped with 2 x 50 springs (my setup). Honestly I think this design flaw applies to any double spring setups, read on.

- VKB 'reinforced' the bolt by creating the external assembly using a washer, a hollow tube, lock washer, and a nut. (as you can see in the attached picture, you can also see that it's bent)

 

https://i.imgur.com/o4YvWGf.png

 

- the problem with this design is - if the end nut gets loose (it's not a locking nut) the whole assembly becomes loose and the forces will start bending the main core bolt away from the cam.

 

 Caution/Hints:

a) inspect the main pitch bearing assembly

b) unscrew the main nut and secure it back with a locktight or a glue so there's no chance for it to unscrew by itself. Also, screw it back in very very tightly so the whole assembly is tight against the main plate.

c) inspect the said assembly once a month.

 

I realized this too late when the nut unscrewed by itself during a gameplay. I opened up the base, took the gimbal out. All of the washers, hollow tube, bearing, and the nut came off the bolt and were laying on the bottom of the base. The main bolt was already bent at that point. I straighten it out as much as I could and then re-assembled it with a locktight glue.

 

If that [Edited] breaks I don't even know if VKB would offer to fix it, and knowing their delivery schedules if there are even any spare parts available to replace it yourself.

 

I can't compare straight right now because i've got my Mamba Mk.III dissasembled. I'm using only rotation knobs right now.
GunF Mk.I and Mamba Mk.III are pretty the same, maybe the cam's feels a litte different but it's hard to judge over time.

Personally i don't like the clutch system from GunF. You can only use a small amount of "clutching force" to have smooth movement.
From my experinence with VKB Gunfighter the clutch system is not a good option for fixed wing.
I like to do technical stuff changing setups etc. I've tried different settings many, many, times and finally turnded off clutch system complettly (I don't fly helos).

It's hard to describe the feel...but clutch removes smoothness. It can be compared it to unscrewing a valve. The rotation of the valve is
jumpy when You overcome the tightening, friction force. So clutches generates stickinnes feeling istead of a dense heaviness
of the air and wire mechanics, i think the old good dense grease is a better solution for immitating "air effect".

Sticking rubber stripes on metal cam's also generates more organic feel than clutches IMO.
Clutches removes smoothens. You are fightting with a friction of the clutch, when the stick starts to move you exagguerate the movement
caused by the floopynes around center CAM so you can only use small amount of clutch friction setup.

Other thing is how long the VKB will be supporting Mambas with new grips...Personnaly i would stay with Mamba and wait for the next edition of GunF.
GunF have an issue with bending bolt in gimbal and there is no offical statement form VKB regarding safe spring force, so this is the main reason to hold on.

Edited by Bearcat

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I read somewhere that the left handed grip for the GF will be available roughly late spring / early summer. 

 

Anybody knows if left handed KG12 grip is also planned and if there will be a rev.A batch planned ? 

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I think left hand grip will be ready before we even get right hand MCG to europe store, haha.

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Noticed that the "stick" light on the ... transformer? ... was flashing red.

 

That's the Blackbox USB controller. It contains the main electronics (but not all).

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Seeing this, I am glad I went with VPC (Europa based company), at the beginning I was reasoning whether to get VKB or VPC. I wanted a setup with extension, so dodged the bullet. VPC had issues as well (replaced old circuit board from first batch generation), but they are already on x' revision and their support was fantastically quick to respond and act. It's good when your car dealer has a workshop in town, and not just a mail address on the other side of the world.

 

Now hope everyone who has VKB or is still waiting for his is lucky enough to have avoided an extension with strong springs, or at least gets parts replaced and improved built-quality quickly. And that VKB extends their support for its customers to compete with VPC's. Only good can come from this. Best of luck.

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Now hope everyone who has VKB or is still waiting for his is lucky enough to have avoided an extension with strong springs, or at least gets parts replaced and improved built-quality quickly. And that VKB extends their support for its customers to compete with VPC's. Only good can come from this. Best of luck.

 

Yeah I still have a Gunfighter Pro with extension sitting here new in the box - original version as I ordered it in March of last year. Still waiting on being able to get a MCG Pro grip for it. Supposedly they will open up ordering here in NA around Feb 25th, hoping to grab one then.

 

Now I am somewhat concerned about using the stronger springs for the extension. 

Will see.

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