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Jason_Williams

Opposing Fleets at Midway

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Here's the spreadsheet of my OOB. It might make more sense.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/upazw11s4m1b5c2/MIDWAY%20OOB.xls?dl=0

 

And here's Midway Expanded for IL-2 46. There's some irrelevant SEOW stuff in there but the map can be installed into the game if you aren't using HSFX - which already has it. The map was 600 x 600 km - plenty of space for fleets to manoeuvre and hide!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pl1dzhwgzhow11x/Cat_Midway_Expanded.zip?dl=0

 

Cheers.

Edited by 216th_Cat

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Navigating will be nutz however. I cant move around my city without map in my smartphone, it will be a nightmare to find anything around Midway. 

 

#Will hire decent navigator

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Navigating will be nutz however. I cant move around my city without map in my smartphone, it will be a nightmare to find anything around Midway. 

 

#Will hire decent navigator

Hehe. I used to do three-hour Catalina recce missions in that Midway campaign. I always found my way back, but never without a great sense of relief to see Midway appearing through the murk.

 

Cheers.

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Yeah, Midway. Aircraft carriers move and what is worse they tend to sink when hit. 

It will be fun to fly around, I really cant wait. Personally I'm so interested in taking B5N in the air armed with torpedo. I have somewhere a 1943 Japanese manual for carrier pilots how to carry various types of operations, including torpedo attacks and that got me attracted the most !

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It is nice to see that research on the Pacific has already started.

 

It would be great to have the Aleutians map as an add-on in Battle of Midway. The map itself should not require a lot of work if the attack on Dutch harbor is simulated.

Dutch has a very graphic, snowy scenery with a PBY sea base. The only land airbase is at Fort Glenn, about 60 miles SW of Dutch.

On the day of the attack B26 Marauders with torpedoes were launched against the Japanese fleet, but only one managed to find the fleet. Perhaps it would offer an opportunity to model this spectacular twin engine plane as a premium, along the standard midway planeset.

 

cheers

Edited by [DBS]airdoc

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I have somewhere a 1943 Japanese manual for carrier pilots how to carry various types of operations, including torpedo attacks and that got me attracted the most !

 

That sounds interesting! I always wondered how did torpedo pilots calculate how much lead to put in their attacks with conventional planes. I remember from 1946 the simplified U-boat computer installed in the Ju 88 and He 111 variants, but most torpedo planes didn't have this luxury I guess.

 

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Perhaps it would offer an opportunity to model this spectacular twin engine plane as a premium, along the standard midway planeset.

 

cheers

To be fair, it was a prominent aircraft during the Midway battle itself.

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It is nice to see that research on the Pacific has already started.

 

It would be great to have the Aleutians map as an add-on in Battle of Midway. The map itself should not require a lot of work if the attack on Dutch harbor is simulated.

Dutch has a very graphic, snowy scenery with a PBY sea base. The only land airbase is at Fort Glenn, about 70km SW of Dutch.

On the day of the attack B26 Marauders with torpedoes were launched against the Japanese fleet, but only one managed to find the fleet. Perhaps it would offer an opportunity to model this spectacular twin engine plane as a premium, along the standard midway planeset.

 

cheers

 

I made the Aleutians map for Il-2 46 HSFX as well. Someone had made a very basic one and it took me a whole year of research to bring it up to scratch for SEOW. The initial map concept was a neat idea though, having both ends of the chain and omitting the middle. It still made for some very long flights if you wanted to bomb Kiska. I'd love to see a map of this in Bo?, even if it did include just the islands of Umnak, Unalaska and the Krenitzins. A map of these keeping Dutch Harbor in the centre would still be 350 km wide!

Cheers.

 

PS Agree with the Marauder for a collector plane at Midway. Ideal.

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Not sure about Wake Island and not sure about F3F Barrel, but Midway patrols in Wildcat will be a thing in a reasonable future. You have to wait until Kuban development is complete (apparently somewhere in the end of this year) and then things will be rolling. 

that's good enough for me - carry on then

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Any chance of a large server that lasts for a few days, i.e., Japanese and Anerican carrier fleets are somewhere around Midway Island, to win, the Japanese must get their fleet of Transports and surface fleet(battleships and crusiers) to Midway, capturing the island, while the US has to stop them. Midway itself can have an AI CAP of 6 F2A Buffalos. This way, the Japanese Air Marshal can focus his initial attacks on the island, and the US Air Marshal can try and find the Japanese fleet, or send fighters to defend Midway. However, if the the lobby is not full, or no one listens to the Air Marshal, it will be a map that is always won by Japan.

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That sounds interesting! I always wondered how did torpedo pilots calculate how much lead to put in their attacks with conventional planes. I remember from 1946 the simplified U-boat computer installed in the Ju 88 and He 111 variants, but most torpedo planes didn't have this luxury I guess.

 

Oh no, its more on tactics and how formation would split and attack from more than one side or in different weather conditions. I'd love to get manual for Japanese Type 97 Torpedo Alignment sight but my recent inquiry to NASM gave no results. 

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I made the Aleutians map for Il-2 46 HSFX as well. Someone had made a very basic one and it took me a whole year of research to bring it up to scratch for SEOW. The initial map concept was a neat idea though, having both ends of the chain and omitting the middle. It still made for some very long flights if you wanted to bomb Kiska. I'd love to see a map of this in Bo?, even if it did include just the islands of Umnak, Unalaska and the Krenitzins. A map of these keeping Dutch Harbor in the centre would still be 350 km wide!

Cheers.

 

PS Agree with the Marauder for a collector plane at Midway. Ideal.

 

Was it you Cat? You did a fantastic job on the map. I spent quite some time researching and designing a multiplayer mission simulating the attack on Dutch harbor in HSFX.

 

Yes, the map would have to be about 300km wide as you said. But it shouldn't be that resource intensive, given that there are essentially very few villages and other land objects to place. I mentioned it because it featured exactly the same planeset as midway and the landscape is really unique. Allies can use Fort Glenn, the PBY seabase, and an additional runway where the current airport of Dutch is located. The latter wasn't completed on the day of the attack -it was under construction, the first plane landed there a month afterwards- but it would be useful in order to shorten the flying distances and make the scenario suitable for multiplayer and singleplayer.

 

cheers

Edited by [DBS]airdoc

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To be fair, it was a prominent aircraft during the Midway battle itself.

That it was. I hope to see it represented in-game as a premium aircraft. The Cat is a close 2nd.

Edited by Legioneod

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Yes, I had fun researching and making that map, even if it did take so long. I attempted to show the u/c runway at Dutch, and had actually made it flat enough to land on in an emergency. My mission-building solution to having some opposition during the attack was to have P-40s, transferring down to Otter Point (Fort Glenn) from the NE, that happened to be over Dutch Harbor at just the right moment.

Cheers.

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The Catalina is essential! It should be the collector plane in the Premium Edition.

Both sides will need a recce aircraft. Not sure how many people will fancy the biplane Jean, but the Judy would make a good Premium buy. Which leaves one Japanese plane short. One of the flying boats might be nice. The Marauder and Vindicator could come along later as extra Collector planes. I don't think that we're going to see a B-17 any time soon.

 

128x SBD (versions -1, -2 & -3) Dauntless

85x F4F-4 Wildcat

42x TBD-1 Devastator

26x PBY-5 Catalina

20x F2A-3 Buffalo

14x B-17E

11x SB2U-3 Vindicator

4x B-26 Marauder

Assorted floatplanes

 

93x B5N2 Kate

85x A6M2 Zero

72x D3A1 Val

33x assorted floatplanes

8x B4Y1 Jean

2x D4Y1 Judy

 

Cheers.

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There were also TBF-1s, which could possibly be premiums. 

Possible setup as I have mentioned it could look like this:

A6M2  - F4F-4
D3A1  - SBD-3

B5N2  - TBD-1
G4M1 - PBY-5
D4Y1  - TBF-1

 

TBF could be replaced with F2A-3 if one prefers, I know that generally speaking there is a strong inclination towards fighters among flight sim community. In regard to G4M1, well, yes indeed, no Betty was present for obvious reasons but otherwise the its only floatplanes/biplanes to choose from and Japanese also will need a medium bomber, if not for Midway map itself than for any other map created in the meantime. A bit more of land than Midway offers, for some overland scenarios to play on multiplayer will sooner or later happen in form of New Guinea/Solomon Islands. 

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In my mind the D4Y is a must have in il-2 but it's not really representative of the begining of the Pacific War, but it will be perfect to come later with the Helldiver in a 1944-1945 opus.

For a japanese flying boat I personnaly expect the F1M2, even if it doesn't participate directly over Midway, it was used in all the Pacific in differents missions (fighter, patrol, bomber, submarine hunter,...) from sea bases and boats. And it's a nice transition floating plane between the old E8N2 and the more modern A6M-2N.

 

One thing is certain, every planes that's will be announced will be a great news and will be a pleasure to fly with.

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In my mind the D4Y is a must have in il-2 but it's not really representative of the begining of the Pacific War, but it will be perfect to come later with the Helldiver in a 1944-1945 opus.

In 1944-1945 you have D4Y3, I see D4Y1 as something necessary and useful in this scenario. Biplanes will just end up as an empty slot since almost nobody would use them in multiplayer, also in regard to F1M - at least you can make a point that D4Y1 did directly participate in the battle, unlike Pete. 

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This is what I hope to see and I think it would be ideal.

 

Fighter: A6M2 Zero - F4F-4 Wildcat

 

DB: Aichi D3A Val - SBD-3 Dauntless

 

TB: Nakajima B5N Kate - TBD-1 Devastator

 

Medium Bomber: G4M1 Betty - B-26 Marauder (would be a dream come true)

 

Collector Aircraft with premium: D4Y1 - PBY Catalina or TBF- 1

 

 

And assuming they make 2 more collector aircraft like with moscow and stalingrad I vote for:

 

B-17 (never gonna happen but I can dream) I don't know what I'd pick for the Japanese side as I know nothing about Japanese aircraft.

Edited by Legioneod

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But the D4Y1 use in 42 and mid 43 are only recon, the dive bombers arrived later, so few people will use it at simply recon. The majority of the variant of the D4Y1-D4Y2-D4Y3-D4Y4 were developped in 1944-1945, better for a late war opus.

 

For a plane like the F1M that depend of the team, does they want only a map of Midway, or some maps for the Solomon island, New Guinea,... In first case, on a game only focus on Midway, that true, this plane is not necessary.

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If you pick B-17 you'd want to pick H8K1 or H8K2 for Japanese. Basically big and cute flying boat:

I want it. This has my vote.

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But the D4Y1 use in 42 and mid 43 are only recon, the dive bombers arrived later, so few people will use it at simply recon. The majority of the variant of the D4Y1-D4Y2-D4Y3-D4Y4 were developped in 1944-1945, better for a late war opus.

It doesnt matter, in case of campaign bomb loads can be easily turned off and aircraft would be used as recon. In case of multiplayer its really up to mission designer, you can limit numbers, you can limit modifications. I'd leave the choice to mission designers on what they wish to set for the aircraft. 

Besides, it's not exactly recce variant - > bomber variant. They were about the same, including internal bomb bay. Problem was that in high speed dives (Judy could safely dive up to 360 knots, thats quite a bit faster than many other dive bombers) wrinkling of wing skin appeared and there were few events of structural failure, thus aircraft was further developed and in the meantime released machines were restricted to less than 60 deg dives. However this problems were solved by the end of 1942. Real problem was production of engine, Aichi had to manufacture Atsuta 21 all by themselves and they had little to no experience with inline engines previously, which led to continuous delays. This isnt something we should care for in flight sim. I see it exactly the opposite, because we can include it and because it will be needed for a decent search for Japanese we should do it. For late war scenarios there is more than enough aircraft to choose from, starting with dozen types of fighters, bombers, torpedo planes and others. 

 

F1M is slow, poorly armed and has very moderate range. Yeah, if there is a room for floatplanes I'd take it. But it would never be (my personal opinion here) a good choice for a first entry to a new theater. F1M or any other floatplane such as E8K, A6M2-N or N1K1 are really a cherry on a cake. 

 

 

I want it. This has my vote.

Just remember, Emily is a tough girl. She can handle herself :)

 

 

Emily actually had better protection measures than B-17.

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I agree with Hiromachi about the D4Y, the capacity to bring bombs should be a modifcation, so it could be locked in historical servers, to avoid having "D4Y dive bomber spam" leaving the poor little Vals in the hangar deck.

 

This image from Spektre makes what I would call a nice Battle of Midway set up, only change would be replacing the Ki-21 with the D4Y1:

 

Battle_of_Midway.png

 

I know this is 2 more planes than the current 8 + 2 plane expansions, but maybe the team can build the extra 2 planes if sales succeed? would complete the set up nicely imho.

Edited by SuperEtendard
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Looking very much forward to fly in the very different conditions of the Pacific War, just my 2 cent to the plane setup and pairings, three pairs as a basic setup,

default dive-bombers:

 

SBD Dauntless

D3A1 Val

 

Default fighters:

 

F4F-4 Wildcat

A6M2 Zero

 

Default carrier-based level bomber:

 

TBF-1 Avenger

B5N2 Kate

 

Yes, I know the TBD-1 Devastator, but this is a dead end. I can't see very much reason to sacrifice rare developers capacity on this plane. And the Avenger has been at Midway, too, so that's a good compromise.

 

Now things become more interesting - do we care for the Army aircraft of both sides or not? If yes, there is the perfect bombers pair, present anywhere:

 

B-25 Mitchell (Tokyo Raid!)

G4M Betty

 

and the fighters:

 

P-40 Warhawk

Ki-61 Hien

(maybe the Ki-43 Hayabusa, but that type is very much like the Zero, so the Hien would offer more variance)

 

If 777 chooses to ignore the army-bombers or as a first series of add-on, float-planes are a MUST for this ToW imho:

 

PBY-5 Catalina

since I don't know THE classical medium japanese float-plane (is there one?) I'd suggest the imho standard single-engine jack-of-all-trades float-plane

E13A Jake OR they start to think big with the

H8K Emily

 

 

So if they (please!) think big we finally get our hands on some really heavy airplane, there's another pair waiting naturally:

B-17 Fortress E

Ki-21 Sally

 

Let's see.

Edited by 216th_Retnek

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I agree with Hiromachi about the D4Y, the capacity to bring bombs should be a modifcation, so it could be locked in historical servers, to avoid having "D4Y dive bomber spam" leaving the poor little Vals in the hangar deck.

 

This image from Spektre makes what I would call a nice Battle of Midway set up, only change would be replacing the Ki-21 with the D4Y1:

 

Battle_of_Midway.png

 

I know this is 2 more planes than the current 8 + 2 plane expansions, but maybe the team can build the extra 2 planes if sales succeed? would complete the set up nicely imho.

This is pretty much what I wanna see. Especially the B-26 and Catalina

  • Upvote 1

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Looking very much forward to fly in the very different conditions of the Pacific War, just my 2 cent to the plane setup and pairings, three pairs as a basic setup,

default dive-bombers:

 

SBD Dauntless

D3A1 Val

 

Default fighters:

 

F4F-4 Wildcat

A6M2 Zero

 

Default carrier-based level bomber:

 

TBF-1 Avenger

B5N2 Kate

 

Yes, I know the TBD-1 Devastator, but this is a dead end. I can't see very much reason to sacrifice rare developers capacity on this plane. And the Avenger has been at Midway, too, so that's a good compromise.

 

Now things become more interesting - do we care for the Army aircraft of both sides or not? If yes, there is the perfect bombers pair, present anywhere:

 

B-25 Mitchell (Tokyo Raid!)

G4M Betty

 

and the fighters:

 

P-40 Warhawk

Ki-61 Hien

(maybe the Ki-43 Hayabusa, but that type is very much like the Zero, so the Hien would offer more variance)

 

If 777 chooses to ignore the army-bombers or as a first series of add-on, float-planes are a MUST for this ToW imho:

 

PBY-5 Catalina

since I don't know THE classical medium japanese float-plane (is there one?) I'd suggest the imho standard single-engine jack-of-all-trades float-plane

E13A Jake OR they start to think big with the

H8K Emily

 

 

So if they (please!) think big we finally get our hands on some really heavy airplane, there's another pair waiting naturally:

B-17 Fortress E

Ki-21 Sally

 

Let's see.

I agree with most of this expect for the b-25 and TBF.

 

The B-26 is the best medium bomber that the US had and it was at midway. The TBF was at midway but it didn't play a huge role. There were 6 avengers at midway and all but one was shot down. The TBD was at midway in large numbers and I think it should be represented even if it suffered horribly.

 

The TBF should be premium.

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do we care for the Army aircraft of both sides or not? If yes, there is the perfect bombers pair, present anywhere:

 

B-25 Mitchell (Tokyo Raid!)

G4M Betty

 

Not that it is specifically important, but Betty served in Navy.

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Not that it is specifically important, but Betty served in Navy.

You're right, sorry for that. My first put set the Ki-21 Sally at that position, but in my (not very much deepened) perception of the PTO the G4M Betty was much more present than the Ki-21, it belonged next to the B-25. So I switched them, not carefully re-reading the sentence before.

Edited by 216th_Retnek

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P-40 we already have. Ki-61 is late spring 1943 aircraft, it has its place in New Guinea/Philippine Islands/Home Islands campaigns but I think adding it to Midway particularly is not exactly the best idea. Check my signature if you are more interested in seeing Ki-61 mate. Ki-43 would have to be Model I which offers pretty much nothing over a Zero and has one major flaw for me - telescopic gunsight. That thing is terrible to aim with and any recent attempts to make it somewhat realisitc in War Thunder failed, its just not easy thing to do. 

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The B-26 is the best medium bomber that the US had and it was at midway.

The B-26 debate, difficult. Yes, the plane has been there, but the developers seen as salesmen have to care for more. I personally would love to see that plane, but as a fact the B-26 never was that prominent in the pacific and was sent away from that ToW in 1943 nearly completely. Compared to the B-25 it's a minor factor.

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P-40 we already have. Ki-61 is late spring 1943 aircraft, it has its place in New Guinea/Philippine Islands/Home Islands campaigns but I think adding it to Midway particularly is not exactly the best idea. Check my signature if you are more interested in seeing Ki-61 mate. Ki-43 would have to be Model I which offers pretty much nothing over a Zero and has one major flaw for me - telescopic gunsight. That thing is terrible to aim with and any recent attempts to make it somewhat realisitc in War Thunder failed, its just not easy thing to do. 

I think there have been Ki-61 noted by aviators of the Tokyo raid in spring 1942? But you're right, this plane isn't a choice if you focus strictly on the Battle of Midway. Anyhow, the Ki-61 is my choice because it played a major part later and it's different from all the radial-engine fighters both sides mainly used. I very much hope, 777-studios one fine day open the option of map-building to the community - and then we soon might have a growing choice of different war theatres. But I very much doubt they will allow community to build planes. So I try to advertise the important, common plane types one could use for a lot of scenarios.

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The list I like most from Spektre's Midway Poll was this:

 

Standard              

A6M2                             F4F-4 (I'd prefer a -3 personally)

D4Y1                             F2A

D3A1                             SBD

B5N2                             TBD Devestator

 

Premium:

G4M1                             PBY Catalina

 

If we get Aleutians or Hawaii with land based airfields it's an excellent planeset for MP and "what if" scenarios.

 

While the B-26 is appropriate I think the B-25 resonates with a much larger crowd and could replace the Catalina. It'd be a shame, though, to have all that water and not have at least one flying boat. DEV's have said several times there are no four engine AC in their current plans.

 

Ki-61 and TBF Avenger would be better for a mid-war installment when they were in wide use. Thinking of the economics - those, Corsair, P-38 and other later model Japanese AC would drive a mid-to-late war module quite nicely.

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People stop teasing me with posts mentioning the Emily. It's my greatest flight sim desire, and I know it's not going to happen.

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The list I like most from Spektre's Midway Poll was this:

 

Standard

A6M2 F4F-4 (I'd prefer a -3 personally)

D4Y1 F2A

D3A1 SBD

B5N2 TBD Devestator

 

Premium:

G4M1 PBY Catalina

 

If we get Aleutians or Hawaii with land based airfields it's an excellent planeset for MP and "what if" scenarios.

 

While the B-26 is appropriate I think the B-25 resonates with a much larger crowd and could replace the Catalina. It'd be a shame, though, to have all that water and not have at least one flying boat. DEV's have said several times there are no four engine AC in their current plans.

 

Ki-61 and TBF Avenger would be better for a mid-war installment when they were in wide use. Thinking of the economics - those, Corsair, P-38 and other later model Japanese AC would drive a mid-to-late war module quite nicely.

Yep

We need the PBY though and it's two engines rather than four - it simply was too prominent to leave out. Need the Betty as soon as possible too, so I like the idea of including it early. An additional Midway map with a closer Wake Island or similar will allow for some generic land - based Japanese ops.

 

Not exactly historical, but fun.

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Yep

We need the PBY though and it's two engines rather than four - it simply was too prominent to leave out. Need the Betty as soon as possible too, so I like the idea of including it early. An additional Midway map with a closer Wake Island or similar will allow for some generic land - based Japanese ops.

 

Not exactly historical, but fun.

Historical accuracy isn't everything. I wouldn't mind seeing a condensed map especially if it means adding more aircraft and the ability to have what-if scenarios, etc.

 

The only thing I care about with historical accuracy is the aircrafts performance, as long as that is correct then I'm fine with almost everything else.

Edited by Legioneod

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Good stuff

In fact if time allows two small clusters of islands opposing each other. Makes for a good "somewhere in the South Pacific" map.

Edited by Gambit21
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I agree with Hiromachi about the D4Y, the capacity to bring bombs should be a modifcation, so it could be locked in historical servers, to avoid having "D4Y dive bomber spam" leaving the poor little Vals in the hangar deck.

 

This image from Spektre makes what I would call a nice Battle of Midway set up, only change would be replacing the Ki-21 with the D4Y1:

 

Battle_of_Midway.png

 

I know this is 2 more planes than the current 8 + 2 plane expansions, but maybe the team can build the extra 2 planes if sales succeed? would complete the set up nicely imho.

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

The B-26B would be a tough one to make unless somebody has info on it?

 

 

 

 

[DOWNLOAD] BoMW F4F and PBY Flight Manuals and Handbooks ::: https://www.dropbox.com/s/36npu0fe0omi7yi/Battle%20of%20Midway%20Reference%20Manuals.zip?dl=0

 

 

MORE REFERENCE WITH TECHNICAL DRAWING INCLUDING COCKPIT:   http://www.midway42.org/Features/TBDPhotos.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can we expect this level of immersion on torpedo planes? i.e setting run depth ect?

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Te6qsBKmI&t=475s

Edited by II./ZG1_SPEKTRE76
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