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Friday Night Bomber Flight Topic

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49 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

My bold.

Yes, I'm sure that we can improve communication, but that isn't the only issue we face.

The mission of 30th March isn't a good example except to show the imbalance between the LW and VVS in destructive power. Forget the actual takeup figures.

 

He-111H-16 (6) *3 Taken
Bf110G-2 (6) *3 Taken

 

IL2-42 (2) *All Taken

A-20B (6) *6 Taken

 

Loadouts of bomber/attacker aircraft if no modifications are allowed:

 

He111 - 1500kg

Ju88 - 2400kg

Bf110 - 700kg + cannon

Ju87 - 1000kg

 

Il-2 - 400kg + 4 rockets + cannon (modification)

Pe-2 - 600 kg.....................it only makes 1000kg tops with modifications

A-20 - 1600 kg

 

Btw, that loadout for the Il-2s is all we've had for months; haven't seen a FAB-250 for such a long time. Your 110s will always have at least two SC250s in a standard bomb load.

 

So minimum loadout if all aircraft were taken was 13,200kg for blue; 10,400kg for red. Now I believe Tip did allow bombs on the P-39s or Yaks to make up the shortfall in Il-2s, but we didn't know until game launch and I doubt if any of the fighter pilots took them. Even allowing for FAB-250s on the P-39s that adds only another 2000kg if they were all employed, still below the blue total and would have left us with just six pure fighters.

 

Every week it is the same, blue has a huge advantage in destructive ordnance. This isn't Tip's doing, it's the plane set within the game. A dozen Luftwaffe bomb-carrying aircraft will haul far more tonnage than a dozen VVS ones. What it means though is that you can do 1 1/2 attack missions in your 110s and achieve your aims, but the Il-2 can't do the same in several weeks because we don't have the means to attack and destroy our targets. We've gone back over and over to the same targets because no matter how hard we try we don't have the destructive power to wipe out anything much that doesn't have wheels on it. It's the same for the level bombers; you have been destroying our factories and depots willy-nilly because you have the amount of ordnance to rain death and destruction on them in just one hit. Up until now we have had a level bomber that does less damage than a Stuka :rolleyes:.

Because we keep having to go back to the same targets the 109s know where we will be and the results are predictable. If the flak doesn't get us they will. Even if our escorts knock them down and they bail it doesn't matter because they will be back in five minutes. Airfields close to the frontline and a fast plane, here they are again all refuelled and rearmed and hungry for easy kills.

 

The VVS cannot destroy its targets at the same rate as the LW as long as there are an equal number of bombing aircraft on both sides. The only way to make it a level playing field is to skew the numbers of bombers so that blue has less than red; match the ordnance rather than the plane numbers. Not that that's ever going to work; the LW would have more fighters and the VVS less :o:. Just imagine the carnage!

 

Well, maybe this is just a lot of excuses and maybe it isn't, but please don't assume that just because you can destroy your targets with ease we can too. It's bloody depressing being a ground attack pilot in the VVS right now.

 

Cheers.

 

 

At the same time you bombers are faster and have better defensive armament and in case of the pe2 way tougher.

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and their fighters can take 37mm cannons to hunt for bombers without losing 40km/h of their top speed ;)

 

7 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

What it means though is that you can do 1 1/2 attack missions in your 110s and achieve your aims, but the Il-2 can't do the same in several weeks because we don't have the means to attack and destroy our targets. We've gone back over and over to the same targets because no matter how hard we try we don't have the destructive power to wipe out anything much that doesn't have wheels on it.

who said we destoyed our target? i said we had 1 1/2 succesful runs. meaning. once we managed to drop our bombs -> success, and the second time we were intercepted half way, because again, almost the entirety of the Soviet fighter force was projected on one single target. which lead to you guys intercepting 3 Bf 110s but completely ignoring our Heinkels. the Heinkels were spotted by your BOMBERS and that was the only time of good communication and reaction, you send some P-39s to intercept, which only got shot down because they started sitting right inbetween the 3 MG 131s of the Heinkels. otherwise we probably would've lost the entire group, because the P-39s did an amazing job of sneaking up on us through the clouds. 

A succesful bomb run doesn't have to mean you completely annihilated a target, it means you got the drop your bombs, and we do succesful runs, because we are not alone, we had 2 109s with us, they bought us enough time to make a go around after our initial attack to drop our remaining bombs. While i almost never see that from the IL-2s, because when or IF, they reach a target, we usually have free reign to do to them what we want, because the fighters cover is a) already dead/retreated, b) too far behind or c) too high and can't react fast enough. It's not the aircraft, it's the way the VVS has shown to be using them.

I'm not saying that to tell anyone "you are bad". You guys have some amazing pilots, the NN guys are giving us a hard time regularly, but very often  not at the right time or the right places. I'm trying to help you guys, because honestly, i want FNBF to be fun for everyone and that includes the VVS players. And we all know that a good result can boost confidence and increase the joy while waiting for the next one :salute:

Edited by 6./ZG26_Asgar
extended explainer ; grammars
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54 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

and their fighters can take 37mm cannons to hunt for bombers without loosing 40km/h of their top speed ;)

 

, and the second time we were intercepted half way, because again, almost the entirety of the Soviet fighter force was projected on one single target. which lead to you guys intercepting 3 Bf 110s but completely ignoring our Heinkels.

 

LOL.  Tip was leading us that day; he kept all of the P-39s together probably hoping to bump into you or the Heinkels, but we were really supposed to be transporting them to a forward base. Our other fighters were on escort, it wasn't the whole lot focused on one single target. Coming across you and your accompanying 109s was bad news for someone like me who was only in a fighter because there were no Il-2s. As it was we pretty much lost the lot and didn't deliver a single one on that sortie. Rookie pilots in brand new aeroplanes? We didn't acquit ourselves very well :(.

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8 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

Every week it is the same, blue has a huge advantage in destructive ordnance. This isn't Tip's doing, it's the plane set within the game. A dozen Luftwaffe bomb-carrying aircraft will haul far more tonnage than a dozen VVS ones. What it means though is that you can do 1 1/2 attack missions in your 110s and achieve your aims, but the Il-2 can't do the same in several weeks because we don't have the means to attack and destroy our targets. We've gone back over and over to the same targets because no matter how hard we try we don't have the destructive power to wipe out anything much that doesn't have wheels on it. It's the same for the level bombers; you have been destroying our factories and depots willy-nilly because you have the amount of ordnance to rain death and destruction on them in just one hit. Up until now we have had a level bomber that does less damage than a Stuka :rolleyes:

 

 

I dont say it is not hard work being attacker on the VVS side but i do belive you are overstating how effective the luftwaffe is. As Axis attacker so do i have another weiv of how easy it is to get ride of targets, we dont have time to destroy one before the red pushes on and another fire starts.

 

Our normal loose rate for high level bombing do i estimate to 50% and we haven't destroyed a single factory to 100% scenes Maykov was added a couple of month ago. so it is more gloriusbut just as much hard work as the low level ground diggers :)  what i fear most is tactical attack with the Ju88, normaly 1 off us will return so lossrate of 75% and killed pilots are expected.

 

4 strategic targets left upp and running at the moment (not all marked on the map)

1 tactical meat grinder.

 

This week so were we really efficient and did take out an tacticat target in two attacks but then so did every ground attacker attack that single target at the same time (10 planes).

I do belive Tip compensates for the axis bomb load with more strategic big bomb targets, off wish non have been destroyed last couple of month.  

and i can guarantee that we feel the panic when we hitting the targets knowing that we have 1-4 min before the yaks show up, and the Crying and burning start.

 

 

 

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As a dude/squad who flies both sides more or less equally on FNBF, i can assure you that it is much harder, beeing successful on the VVS side.

 

Given the fact that a well flown single axis fighter easily matches 2-3 russian fighters and the 110 G2 being the most versatile aircraft in the sim so far.

 

All that makes me totally understand the frustration on the VVS side, especially after the 109 now has increased firepower with the MG131, which absolutely is not making things easier at all for the VVS attackers.

 

Some folks at least should fly VVS once and actually show that side how easily they can rid of their high attrition, just by adapting and using their forementioned advanced tactics and upped communications.

 

:salute:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by [TWB]Jizzo
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36 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Do we except a mission this Friday? :)

 

Due to RL Biz I will not be here Friday and still have some tax preparation to finish up.

Additionally owing to the results from last Friday. This next one will require a bit more time to prepare and test. There's also the issue of a hotfix coming out at any time.

I'm not going to dump everything on Marta.

 

We'll go ahead and take this Friday off.

I've got the F/JG300 Squad penciled in. Really enjoyed flying with ya's Friday.

Tip

 

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12 minutes ago, [TWB]Jizzo said:

All that makes me totally understand the frustration on the VVS side, especially after the 109 now has increased firepower with the MG131, which absolutely is not making things easier at all for the VVS attackers.

 

Having Mg131 also means the 109 will loose speed and maneuverability. 

Yak1b or Yak7b vs 109G is a pretty balanced planeset (I also fly on both side and mainly Yak when flying red).

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

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Have a nice week in that case Tip, and may the tax and mission making be as straightforward as these things are allowed to be :)

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7 minutes ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

 

Due to RL Biz I will not be here Friday and still have some tax preparation to finish up.

Additionally owing to the results from last Friday. This next one will require a bit more time to prepare and test. There's also the issue of a hotfix coming out at any time.

I'm not going to dump everything on Marta.

 

We'll go ahead and take this Friday off.

I've got the F/JG300 Squad penciled in. Really enjoyed flying with ya's Friday.

Tip

 

 

Ok Tip. Thx for your work!

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On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 10:37 AM, 1.JaVA_KEBEN said:

216th_Nocke and 1.JaVA_KEBEN in the A-20 , nice flying Nocke  !

 

555555555.jpg

 

Set this as my desktop background and just noticed something - it's the Mary Celeste! Where's the crew? Did they jump out with the bombs? :lol:

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Stop it dudes, you are killing me! :lol:

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3 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

 

Due to RL Biz I will not be here Friday and still have some tax preparation to finish up.

Additionally owing to the results from last Friday. This next one will require a bit more time to prepare and test. There's also the issue of a hotfix coming out at any time.

I'm not going to dump everything on Marta.

 

We'll go ahead and take this Friday off.

I've got the F/JG300 Squad penciled in. Really enjoyed flying with ya's Friday.

Tip

 

all righty tip

fix yr Things and Tax and have a nice Weekend, till next time..cu all

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The following is pure Science and should be taken as absolute fact, none of it is done for my amusement or curiosity!

 

Did become currious how the il2 and bf110 do stand upp to each other against the same target in FNBF. never tried it out Before.

Have choosen two smaller targets direct from last FNBF that one plane should be able to take out it self if left alone for some time.

Time to race :)

 

First out is Krasniy-something,

il2 43 6 *50kg 4 Big rockets. Bomb hits 66% rockets50% (did forget to fire one :( ).  time from start to destruction 6min.

 

When i get home so will i make an run with bf-110, 2*250 4*50kg, or 12*50 if 6 bombs at to few. (will edit a Little as 4*50kg + gunpod was the biggest last FNBF)

 

Next up is the small industrial complex at Saratovka,  need to make som runs to determent wich load out for both planes is the best for that target. 

Edited by SCG_happy_meal
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Been playing aroung with the bf110 and il2 on "fake" FNBF, and doing speed runs on targets,

 

I am alway a little quicker to leave the target zone in the bf110, but i did also fail alot more to destroy the targets as i need to drop the 50kg to low for the fuse to arm, and they are to light to skip on the ground. (could spend more time setting up good approach but that would force me to spend more time ove target). the il2 do spend a little longer over the target zone but do destoy it more relable as the russian bomb fuse lets you plant the bomb directly on the target. 

 

When it come to destoy the target so are they very evenly match for me with a slight edge for the il2.

but when it comes to survive the enemy fighters that will appear in 1-2min so should the ability to exit earlier give the bf-110 the edge. and with the it's speed you can you go further around hot spots where you suspect the fighters will be and avoid being spotted to and from the target.

 

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Interesting tests happy_meal. That 110 looks hell of a lot more manoeuvrable than the Il-2; I will have to give it a go.  How do the cannons compare against the same tanks? Can you try your tests with the FAB-100, that is the best the reds have. Personally I find it useless for anything other than small buildings, nets etc and oil tanks. We have real problems with half a dozen bunkers; might get one if we're lucky. And how do the aircraft compare against half a dozen mixed AAA - you might need to take some friends ;).

 

PS Leave off the 250kg bombs; the Il-2s never get any. And I mean NEVER!

PPS I know I could do this all myself but it's good to have someone without a vested interest conducting the tests.

PPPS No gunpods either. We never get them. The Vya 23 are our bread and butter; bloody good they are too.

 

Cheers :salute:.

Edited by 216th_Cat
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50 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

Interesting tests happy_meal. That 110 looks hell of a lot more manoeuvrable than the Il-2; I will have to give it a go.  How do the cannons compare against the same tanks? Can you try your tests with the FAB-100, that is the best the reds have. Personally I find it useless for anything other than small buildings, nets etc and oil tanks. We have real problems with half a dozen bunkers; might get one if we're lucky. And how do the aircraft compare against half a dozen mixed AAA - you might need to take some friends ;).

 

PS Leave off the 250kg bombs; the Il-2s never get any. And I mean NEVER!

PPS I know I could do this all myself but it's good to have someone without a vested interest conducting the tests.

PPPS No gunpods either. We never get them. The Vya 23 are our bread and butter; bloody good they are too.

 

Cheers :salute:.

132 mm rockets do wonders against dugouts. 

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The problem with the 100kg is that you loose 4bombs for a minimum gain in blast radius. dont belive it would be possible to take out Krasniy Oktyabr with the 100kg bomb load.

 Before 3,001 so did 2*50kg destroy hangars but 1*250kg did not. and i find that blast damage do little now after 3,001 on FNBF (no complaning :) ),

 

The set up for todays runs were, 6*50kg + 4 132mm rockets +23mm, and for the the bf110 2*250kg 4*50kg. 

 

with the 12*50kg on the bf110 so should the two planes be even matched against bunkers, have a good testing ground in mind, :)

can also test agains german tanks tomorrow, but for the cannons vs tanks so have the bf110  nothing like the 23mm, it needs the pigbelly 37mm cannon and it is only available as a poor man duck if I remeber right,  the 20mm dont do nothing against tanks (the roads arent bouncy enough on the eastern front :happy:)

 

 

 

Edited by SCG_happy_meal

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10 hours ago, SCG_happy_meal said:

 

 Before 3,001 so did 2*50kg destroy hangars but 1*250kg did not. and i find that blast damage do little now after 3,001 on FNBF (no complaning :) ),

 

 

It's not FNBF - 3.001 changed a lot of durability values. A locomotive has the same strength as a tank, for example. :huh:

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2 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

It's not FNBF - 3.001 changed a lot of durability values. A locomotive has the same strength as a tank, for example. :huh:

Yes that he been changed in 3.001 also damage model and weapons destruction

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Did use last FNBF for some more testing bf110 vs il2 effectnes taking out diffrent target types.

First out the 4 Stug's at the german airfield.

Here was the il2 the master, after many try's so did i give up on getting all 4 Stugs with the bf-110 and bombs so did switch over to the 37mm cannon and did finally succeded killen them all. The problem with the bombs was that i could not score hits with the german bombs fuse that forces you to drop them future away not the plane it self.

 

Against bunker so were the two plane ones again equal, both can take out two bunker complexes (2*4 dugouts) the bf-110 have more bombs and should in the hands of an exellent pilot take out 3 complexes, but one again so did i miss more with the bf110 and could use the armament off the il2 more consistent.

 

So with the armament avalible in FNBF for the two so are they quite balanced in the destructive Power.  

I do find the  Bf-110 the better hit&runner  and the Il2 the more more consistent destroyer, and that the bf*110 gets better the bigger the target is and the il2 is superior to snipe smaller targets.

 

Load out for the il2 was 6*50kg 4*132mm rocket and 23mm cannon.

the bf-110 had 4*50kg and 37mm cannon against the tanks & 12*50kg against the bunkers.

 

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Good stuff happy.

The new durability values allow for much greater customizability.  Spot on.

 

Plane set and Signups for Fridays April 20th Mission "Shogo" will be tomorrow.

See ya's,

Tip

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Thanks for testing Happy, interesting results.

This bit sums up my impressions of the two very well:     'the bf*110 gets better the bigger the target is and the il2 is superior to snipe smaller targets. '

Cheers. :salute:

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Friday Night Bomber Flights April 20th @ 20:00 UTC: Kuban 43 "Shogo!"
ShogoPoster_1.jpg


Mission Time: 10:18-13:00
Conditions: 15*c... Clearing... Warmer... Winds from the Southwest.

Situation:

March 1943. Facing encirclment to the north, 17th Army begins withdrawal and attemps to consolidate in the North Caucasus...
 
***Please note Time Change to 20:00 UTC. 

**Patrol areas will be shown on Map. Additional targeting if needed to be sent via PM following Player Recon. Full FNBF ROE will apply.
*UK_1 Server Settings for Friday Night Bomber Flights will be Full CEM, No Icon, No Navigational aides.

*TS will be the Official BoS server (8.3.5.133:9407) password bos2014; in one of the MP Channels.
=Backup TS Address will be: ts3.riseofflight.net:7777 - Password: 1917

 

Planeset:
Axis 
Ju-87D-3 (7) *2 Taken

Ju88A-4 (5) *3 Taken

Bf109G-4 (6)

Bf109G-6 (4)

 

VVS

IL2-42/43 (3)

Pe-2 s.87 (5)

A-20B (4)

Yak7-B (6)

Yak1-B (4)

 

Signup Here...
Full Signup, Roster sheet visit our Battle-fields site Here...
Look forward to flying with you.
Tip

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2 x ju88 for Klaus Mann and 5tuka

3 x bf109 for Kuppis, Memphis and Asgar, please!

 

thank you👍

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Kuppis
Editing

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4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Kuppis said:

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Memphis

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109G4

JG300_Fried

JG300_Kartoffe

JG300_Egon

JG300_Sven

 

 

Ju87

JG300_Touch

JG300_Hammel

JG300_Tempest

JG300_Gruber

 

Thx!!

 

edit: just saw there are not enough 109

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon

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I reserve 4 Yak 7 and 3 IL 2 for Next Friday. 

Lucas will give the details

List is like this:

IL 2:

Pod, Silent Eskimo, and Cathaoir

YAK 7:

Lucas, Leon Portier, Nocke, Alexmarine and LuseKofte as reserve on YAK 7 or IL 2

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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We might need some ristrictions, on how many slots a single post may be allowed to grab, for the future.

 

Starting to get quite hard, to actually get a single slot, if one post grabs almost all aircraft of the same category.

 

Just a thought, that might be interesting.

 

PS: Or that each and everyone flying FNBF needs to sign up individually, that would make it equally fair accross the board, but i guess aswell increase the workload for Tip.

 

:salute:

 

 

Edited by [TWB]Jizzo
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Just now, [TWB]Jizzo said:

We might need some ristrictions, on how many slots a single post may be allowed to grab, for the future.

 

 

Yes we do agree, if all followed this rule there would be no problem. We in 216th have signed on individually until now, and have suffered for it a lot.  Problems is fighters, and we aint getting cover for our IL 2´s 

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Friday Night Bomber Flights April 20th @ 19:00 UTC: Kuban 43 "Shogo!"
ShogoPoster_1.jpg


Mission Time: 10:18-13:00
Conditions: 15*c... Clearing... Warmer... Winds from the Southwest.

Situation:

March 1943. Facing encirclment to the north, 17th Army begins withdrawal and attemps to consolidate in the North Caucasus...
 
***Please note Time Change to 19:00 UTC. 

**Patrol areas will be shown on Map. Additional targeting if needed to be sent via PM following Player Recon. Full FNBF ROE will apply.
*UK_1 Server Settings for Friday Night Bomber Flights will be Full CEM, No Icon, No Navigational aides.

*TS will be the Official BoS server (8.3.5.133:9407) password bos2014; in one of the MP Channels.
=Backup TS Address will be: ts3.riseofflight.net:7777 - Password: 1917

 

Planeset:
Axis 
Ju-87D-3 (7) *6 Taken

Ju88A-4 (5) *All Taken

Bf109G-4 (6) *5 Taken

Bf109G-6 (4) *All Taken

1 Reserve

 

VVS

IL2-42/43 (3) *All Taken

Pe-2 s.87 (5) *2 Taken

A-20B (4) *3 Taken

Yak7-B (6) *All Taken

Yak1-B (4) *3 Taken

 

Signup Here...
Full Signup, Roster sheet visit our Battle-fields site Here...
Look forward to flying with you.
Tip

Edited by [DBS]Tx_Tip

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Looks like you forgot Jumper for the Yak7, Tip.

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No FNBF for me this week then.......:(

 

People really need to sign up individually, and not block book 8 slots!

Edited by JG5_Schuck
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