Tactical Air War

[JGr8_Leopard]

11 минут назад, mincer сказал:

F4 has dive speed limit of 850, La5's limit is 720, and most sane pilots start pulling off even earlier it becomes scary very fast. If you have altitude, you can always outdive your opponent in a 109 on the Eastern Front.

Which is faster, Yak-9 or La-5?
Yak-9 easily and playfully fled from 109. Now tell me how they catch up with you on La-5.

 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

29 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

Which is faster, Yak-9 or La-5?
Yak-9 easily and playfully fled from 109. Now tell me how they catch up with you on La-5.

 

I am talking about a situation, when you are escaping in a 109 in a dive. You can reach much higher speed than any soviet airplane -- they lose control surfaces much earlier. Yak 9 will disintegrate at 750 km/h, while 109 (or a 190) will be just fine. 
 

With regards to the track, what were the initial altitudes and the speeds of Yak9 and 109s? Did 109s use emergency power? My guess is that they could not use the full power because they exhausted it before, or they did not deem it worthy in that particular situation.

Edited November 30, 2020 by mincer

[JGr8_Leopard]

14 минут назад, mincer сказал:

what were the initial altitudes and the speeds of Yak9 and 109s? Did 109s use emergency power? My guess is that they could not use the full power because they exhausted it before, or they did not deem it worthy in that particular situation.

109 were a little higher, went down a little to accelerate, turned for yak9. Used 90-95% throttle.

Yak9 is a very cool plane 1943 to use instead of Yak1b. It should only be given together with La5-FN on map 7 and 8.

Edited November 30, 2020 by JGr8_Leopard

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

14 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

109 were a little higher, went down a little to accelerate, turned for yak9. Used 90-95% throttle.

If they used 100%, they would have caught up. What is your point?

[JGr8_Leopard]

9 минут назад, mincer сказал:

If they used 100%, they would have caught up. What is your point?

Even using 100% throttle in that situation 109 would not have time to close the distance and take the attack position.

[Norz]

58 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

109 were a little higher, went down a little to accelerate, turned for yak9. Used 90-95% throttle.

Yak9 is a very cool plane 1943 to use instead of Yak1b. It should only be given together with La5-FN on map 7 and 8.

 

I will ask you once more. Why can't you play the current set on the red side? I am sure that you will not ask it for ever.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Norz

[WokeUpDead]

FYI, we have good old IL2 Compare WITH DATA FOR THIS GAME available now to help with these kinds of discussions:

So for example here we can see that the F4 is faster than the G2 at at all altitudes below 6600m:

 

The Yak 1b is faster than the 9 at all altitudes:

 

The F4 is faster than all Yaks at all altitudes; the Yak 1b comes closest, being just a couple km/h slower at 1000m:

 

The La5 series8 is a bit faster than the F4 below 1200m:

 

But slower than the 190 A3 and A5 at all altitudes:

 

 

These graphs assume all things being equal; of course it's possible for a Yak 9 to pull away from an F4 if it had more altitude/energy at the start of the fight, or if they got low and slow and the Yak decided to run away from the fight with a nearly empty tank while the F4 had a full tank, or if they entered the fight on even terms but the Yak made his turns more efficiently and lost less energy, or if the F4 pilot decided not to engage emergency boost for example.

Edited November 30, 2020 by WokeUpDead
emphasis for the comprehension-impaired

[JGr8_Leopard]

29 минут назад, WokeUpDead сказал:

FYI, we have good old IL2 Compare with data for this game available now to help with these kinds of discussions:

this is an ABSOLUTELY different game

[FTC_HK]

6 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

this is an ABSOLUTELY different game

What are you on about? 

Edited November 30, 2020 by ACG_HardeKoning

[JGr8_Leopard]

How is that what are you on about? These are aircraft parameters from a completely different game! Common between them is only the name of the aircrafts.

[Norz]

37 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

FYI, we have good old IL2 Compare with data for this game available now to help with these kinds of discussions:

These graphs assume all things being equal; of course it's possible for a Yak 9 to pull away from an F4 if it had more altitude/energy at the start of the fight, or if they got low and slow and the Yak decided to run away from the fight with a nearly empty tank while the F4 had a full tank, or if they entered the fight on even terms but the Yak made his turns more efficiently and lost less energy, or if the F4 pilot decided not to engage emergency boost for example.

 

 

 

 

IL2 compare has nothing in common with the game IL2 BOS etc. But anyway, someone who will prefer 109g2 at 7500m instead of 109f4 is not correct for 100%. You can boost 109f4 and got +3..4 km/h. Or you can fly 1,34ATA and be very close to 109g2 (about 6 km/h less)

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Norz

[FTC_HK]

1 minute ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

How is that what are you on about? These are aircraft parameters from a completely different game! Common between them is only the name of the aircrafts.

It's data from Il-2: Great Battles? Have you even clicked the link?

[AKA_Relent]

The program is the same as used for IL2/46,  but CountZero provided data (input) files he created based on his own testing in IL2/BoX.

[Norz]

7 minutes ago, ACG_HardeKoning said:

It's data from Il-2: Great Battles? Have you even clicked the link?

 

CountZero created this dataset manually. Noone knows if it has actual data for the current version.

 

For example, what does it mean 109g2 100% and 109g2 max?

Edited November 30, 2020 by Norz

[WokeUpDead]

16 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

CountZero created this dataset manually. Noone knows if it has actual data for the current version.

 

For example, what does it mean 109g2 100% and 109g2 max?

 

 

29 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

this is an ABSOLUTELY different game

 

Read the Count's post then slap your own foreheads.

 

The tool is from IL2 1946 but the data is from this game. He created it using methodology described in the post.

 

The two different lines for most planes mean different things for each plane, but usually the slower line is the max speed at which the plane can be flown at continuously, while the faster line is a temporary boost like emergency power for the planes that have it, or radiator/pitch settings that will cause the engine to overheat if flown too long. So for the 109G2 for example: "on 109G2 2nd line is manual rpm up to 2800 for 1-2min"

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by WokeUpDead

[Norz]

49 minutes ago, WokeUpDead said:

So for the 109G2 for example: "on 109G2 2nd line is manual rpm up to 2800 for 1-2min"

 

 

 

 

TY for the info. I thought all years that it does not affect the speed (for 109g2). Now I see that it does.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Norz

[WokeUpDead]

3 hours ago, Norz said:

 

TY for the info. I thought all years that it does not affect the speed (for 109g2). Now I see that it does.

 

Glad you're finding it helpful. There were definitely "prop pitch tricks" in the old 1946, to the point of non-historical ridiculousness on the K4 if I remember correctly that needed to be fixed in subsequent patches and releases. In this game, for the G2 at least, it appears to give just a minimal boost at limited altitudes and for a limited time. I'm guessing with patience and dedication to testing one could uncover more such examples in other planes with auto-pitch.

Edited December 1, 2020 by WokeUpDead

[WokeUpDead]

12 hours ago, SCG_Vieira said:

Regarding the use of the Po-2, I would love to see it as a special operations plane, bringing saboteurs into enemy territory.

 

We could use airfields that are not being used, close to the targets (like depots or airfields) that would be marked on the map only for the red team with a small circle (similar to the Ju-52 para missions). The Po-2 would need to successfully land, turn off is engine, turn on is engine (or some type of countdown of 30s to 1m), take off and land safely in a friendly airfield. This would cause a 10% damage on the target with a 50% chance probability  

 

Cool idea, but it's vulnerable to the "check the map from the other side before I select my side" exploit. Some ideas to mitigate it:

• Don't enable the special operation until at least 30 minutes into the map. I think the exploit is used most during the first few minutes when players from the last map carry-over to the new one.
• Have more than one possible special operations target on the map to split defenses.
• Don't show the special operations target airfield on the map, instead announce its location periodically via server message to the red team.

Edited December 1, 2020 by WokeUpDead

[=19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor]

 

People, estimate the damage model. Is there an explanation for what is happening?

 

 

[LLv24_Zami]

1 minute ago, =19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor said:

 

People, estimate the damage model. Is there an explanation for what is happening?

 

 

 Before we estimate the DM of the rockects, I think we need more planes. How about shooting them lets say to the Yak-9 for example. Which is my favorite red plane, it`s great. Hurricane might be a good target also.

 

I haven`t done it, I`m curious to see how it goes.

[=19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor]

10 минут назад, LLv24_Zami сказал:

 Before we estimate the DM of the rockects, I think we need more planes. How about shooting them lets say to the Yak-9 for example. Which is my favorite red plane, it`s great. Hurricane might be a good target also.

 

I haven`t done it, I`m curious to see how it goes.

Something like this ?

 

 

[LLv24_Zami]

18 minutes ago, =19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor said:

Something like this ?

 

 

Sure, but no Yak-9 or Hurricane. Theres a lot of Yaks flying and mostly who got hit was to the wing. I`ll see the rest of it. 6.30 and 7.20 theres a direct hit to to La-5 which has no effect at all. 

 

I think you`re right, something is off with the rocket modeling. I`ll pass it forward. Thanks!

Edited December 1, 2020 by LLv24_Zami

[WokeUpDead]

2 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Sure, but no Yak-9 or Hurricane. Theres a lot of Yaks flying and mostly who got hit was to the wing. I`ll see the rest of it. 6.30 and 7.20 theres a direct hit to to La-5 which has no effect at all. 

 

I think you`re right, something is off with the rocket modeling. I`ll pass it forward. Thanks!

It’s more likely an issue in the modelling of the tails, not the rockets. If you hit a bomber with a rocket at even a slight angle off 6 and a tiny bit below or above, it usually causes critical damage. I think some fighters have iron tails. Maybe there simply aren’t enough critical components back there, so the rocket is damaging just the skin. Maybe the control cables and surfaces should be more fragile, maybe even the whole tail could break off.

[LLv24_Zami]

4 hours ago, WokeUpDead said:

It’s more likely an issue in the modelling of the tails, not the rockets. If you hit a bomber with a rocket at even a slight angle off 6 and a tiny bit below or above, it usually causes critical damage. I think some fighters have iron tails. Maybe there simply aren’t enough critical components back there, so the rocket is damaging just the skin. Maybe the control cables and surfaces should be more fragile, maybe even the whole tail could break off.

Just yesterday I was thinking about this when I blasted LaGG from six o`clock at very close range with long burst intentionally aiming and hitting it`s tail to end the fight quickly. Tail stayed with the rest of the plane and I prefer it that way. I don`t think it was very common to cut the whole tail of the airplane in WW2 with normal weapons.

 

I`m not saying there`s no room for improvement, there always is. If you hit something with a rocket like in the videos, it should do serious damage. But it´s not a very common weapon used in the game against airplanes. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by LLv24_Zami

[HR_Tumu]

About last videos: better don't talk too much about this things here. In general better don't talk nothing if u want the post still open.

[LLv24_Zami]

6 minutes ago, HR_Tumu said:

About last videos: better don't talk too much about this things here. In general better don't talk nothing if u want the post still open.

Why, we talked about it and nobody died.

Edited December 1, 2020 by LLv24_Zami

[=19GvFAB=Vlad-Executor]

5 часов назад, WokeUpDead сказал:

It’s more likely an issue in the modelling of the tails, not the rockets. If you hit a bomber with a rocket at even a slight angle off 6 and a tiny bit below or above, it usually causes critical damage. I think some fighters have iron tails. Maybe there simply aren’t enough critical components back there, so the rocket is damaging just the skin. Maybe the control cables and surfaces should be more fragile, maybe even the whole tail could break off.

 

Sample of tails damage: 2:33:00 - 2:34:02 ?

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

A very pretentious frag-movie based on the latest campaign
 

 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

On 11/26/2020 at 5:43 AM, Operation_Ivy said:

You know what would fix a lot of our problems?

 

increasing the map duration significantly to even out the spikes in player numbers of either side.

 

Maybe it is not possible technically to increase the map duration significantly but maybe there is a workaround for it. Our current problem is that targets die too quickly in hours where there are only very few players online. Maybe it is possible to "slow" the gameflow down by either making the missions longer or the targets tougher?

 

It would help a lot if during a player spike they could only significantly influence one missions instead of being able to roll half the map or more.

I somehow missed this post, but I think it is a good idea.

[Max16]

[=AD=Str1ke]

When WF will start?

[FeuerFliegen]

3 hours ago, 72AG_SerWolf said:

@ToGa maybe you shouldn't post anything while intoxicated?

 

haha I thought it was just a terrible translation, but that wasn't it!

[FeuerFliegen]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:24 PM, Norz said:

 

TY for the info. I thought all years that it does not affect the speed (for 109g2). Now I see that it does.

 

Only above 6000m though; It's because above 6000m, at the max rpm the auto limiter will allow it to go (2600rpm), it starts to lose manifold pressure. 

 

You can maintain the full 1.3ata for a decent bit more altitude by raising RPM as manifold pressure falls. 

 

Just a little above 6000m, say 6200m, it wouldn't help to use the full 2800rpm; just enough above 2600rpm to keep 1.3ata... that way you can maximize the engine timer and be most efficient for max power.  Only at about 7000m would you need the full 2800rpm for max power/speed.

[72AG_SerWolf]

33 минуты назад, SCG_FeuerFliegen сказал:

 

haha I thought it was just a terrible translation, but that wasn't it!

I mean dont drink too much alcohol, or not sober

[todeskvlt]

1 hour ago, -=RedS=-Str1ke said:

When WF will start?

 

Not in this year for sure.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by =LG=todeskvlt

[=AD=Str1ke]

 

[WokeUpDead]

5 hours ago, =LG=Blakhart said:

Do you have any sense of humour ?

 

In the last few posts only Redstrike posted something funny; the other posts are un-humorous and stupid, from both sides.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

I hope you are all fine. The TAW server has been running for almost five years. We would like to thank all of you who's donated so far. The cost of only hardware server is about 1000€/year, so we would like to assess if we can upgrade it or at least keep it running in the next year. If you would like to regularly donate TAW please log into your account on English TAW website and then fill in Donation/month form in your Pilot profile. We hope that even 1€/month would be enough if even some part of active players decided to do it. 

 

We wish you all best in the next year and hope to see you on the TAW sky again. 

 

[Max16]

Guys, simplify the donation system for Russia and you will be happy. Referably Through sberbank.

[=AD=AlmanAndorrano]

17.12.2020 в 22:19, =LG=Blakhart сказал:

 

Szanowni Państwo, po zniesieniu ograniczeń z powodu wirusa, "trzeźwe niebo" zaprasza na spotkanie z wami na polskiej ziemi! Zróbmy spotkanie pilotów TAW. Myślę, że piloci z Niemiec też mogą do was przyjechać.

 

Dear Comrades, after the removal of restrictions due to the virus, "Sober sky" offers to meet you on polish soil! let's make a taw airmen meeting. I think the pilots from Germany will also be able to come to you.