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Tactical Air War


=LG=Kathon
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=2ndSS=Lawyer1
25 minutes ago, =L/R=Rafcio said:

I do not think so. I think it was still a basic training plane. I know there were different UTIs, but the first flights probably continued to be on Po-2, as we should actually call this plane to celebrate N.N. Polikarpov.

The Po-2 was a basic aircraft in pilot training due to its widespread use in flying clubs, where Soviet young people received initial training before entering aviation schools. With the beginning of the war, the training procedure changed. Many aircraft that were used in flying clubs were transferred to military units

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6 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The Po-2 was a basic aircraft in pilot training due to its widespread use in flying clubs, where Soviet young people received initial training before entering aviation schools. With the beginning of the war, the training procedure changed. Many aircraft that were used in flying clubs were transferred to military units

Ok but still this was main training plane in VVS. I know it's job was also to be a bomber and other tasks such as liaison. Our Polish second air regiment "KRAKÓW" ( night bomber) used them. Anyway, it's skin is in the game.

Edited by =L/R=Rafcio
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=2ndSS=Lawyer1

 

54 minutes ago, =L/R=Rafcio said:

I ended this discussion with this post. It is a pity who did not understand

Best of all, the coefficients can tell about the effectiveness of pilots. You can compare how much the average pilot destroyed before he died and who was more useful to his team in the end.

For example:

Mine

20201127_202832.jpg

 

Yours

20201127_202916.jpg

 

Denisik

20201127_202953.jpg

Edited by =2ndSS=Lawyer1
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=2ndSS=Lawyer1
4 hours ago, LLv24_Oke said:

One individual plane doesnt mean anything

A single plane did not mean anything in a real war, unless, of course, it was equipped with an atomic bomb.
The largest number of bombings was carried out with small and medium caliber bombs. Large bombs were rarely used to destroy specific targets.
The fact that small bombs are now more profitable to use than large ones is quite historical.

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=/Hospiz/=MetalHead
2 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

A single plane did not mean anything in a real war, unless, of course, it was equipped with an atomic bomb.
The largest number of bombings was carried out with small and medium caliber bombs. Large bombs were rarely used to destroy specific targets.
The fact that small bombs are now more profitable to use than large ones is quite historical.


Since I started flying in this game back in 2016, small bombs were always more profitable, like in reality. It's funny that most of blue team bombers never noticed that, and kept hauling those huge cakes doing minimal damage when bombing loosely packed targets.
Right now, large bombs are totally useless though. Building can survive near miss, and will stand tall while being inside of the crater (so it looks like it is floating in the air, because the bomb moved the ground below the buiding, but the structure is left untouched). It looks amusing, at the very least
I am by no means an explosive expert, but blast waves obey basic laws of physics, and from what I know about them, current modelling of bomb blast damage  seems to be undermodelled.

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8 minutes ago, LLv24_Oke said:

I just told u why we lost this campaign.  Game developers do damage modelling. Damage of 1000 kg bomb is reduced , maybe too much, and that was the reason of losing this TAW. Campaign developers decides if its possible to use big bombs or not. I dont know shit about physics , but seeing surviving t-34 inside bombhole of sc 500 is miracle.


Why on Earth would you need an SC500 to destroy a T-34? 😮

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I also think that maybe an adjustment to the scoring to make people value their virtual pilots life may help in the balance,

As the LW side has the numbers most of the time, but not the experience

On quite a few occasions i have noticed massed attacks (suicidal in most cases) on airfields without any value for the pilots life as the players had already been killed 20-30 times.

And that even pilots that had been killed many times where still higher on the leader board than those who had not.

Which does not give much of an incentive for those people trying to keep their virtual pilot alive in a realistic manner.

Trying to fight someone who has been killed multiple times and doesn't care whilst also trying to stay alive yourself gives your opponent an advantage.

 

I would suggest something along the lines of:

Resetting your experience to zero when you are killed, but keeping your rank and medals at the time of death.

Also linking modifications to experience points, ie you only have default loadout (no unlocks) until you have more than say 300 points.

This would favour bomber pilots (especially as they have more chance of being killed) as experience points are a lot easier to earn attacking ground targets.

Or maybe only allowing player to only have the +1 planes until they reach a certain experience level, similar to how it is for the 262 now..

 

I believe this would also help reduce the damage inflicted as a proportion  of players would only have the default loadout.

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23 minutes ago, JG5_Schuck said:

I also think that maybe an adjustment to the scoring to make people value their virtual pilots life may help in the balance,

 

Suppose that you:

1) Fly on the side that has 20 pilots on the server, and your opponents have 40

2) Most of those 40 players are flying fighters

3) Their fighter planes are superior, and their weapons are a lot, lot more deadlier than yours

 

How would you try to save your virtual life while doing something useful for your team? Thank you.

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=2ndSS=Lawyer1

All this talk about saving lives is good when the server has an equal number of pilots on both sides

 

If someone playing in the majority is not able to win against a team with fewer people, and at the same time is looking for a way to remove the opponent from the field at all, then they are playing very poorly ))

 

These players don't deserve to win

 

 

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I couldn't get to play taw for this week and as I see it's been down for 90+ hours now, I tried to find a answer in the forums but everyones just talking about improvements made, am I missing somethign?

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4 minutes ago, ACG_Medln said:

I couldn't get to play taw for this week and as I see it's been down for 90+ hours now, I tried to find a answer in the forums but everyones just talking about improvements made, am I missing somethign?


Campaign is over.

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Any news about diplomas regarding the last TAW?

We had an ITAF ( LG965 our group Komander )as best LW bomber in the campaign and he deserves this award !! 😉

Edited by ITAF_Rani
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7 hours ago, mincer said:

 

Suppose that you:

1) Fly on the side that has 20 pilots on the server, and your opponents have 40

2) Most of those 40 players are flying fighters

3) Their fighter planes are superior, and their weapons are a lot, lot more deadlier than yours

 

How would you try to save your virtual life while doing something useful for your team? Thank you.

 

Well all i see is a lot of players saying how bad it is, but no one coming up with any good suggestions!!

At least i am trying to make a positive contribution and not negative comments.....

 

So what do you think will help?

 

The LG guys have done a great job with this server, and if i had to listen to half of this moaning,.........

 

Edited by JG5_Schuck
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11 hours ago, =/Hospiz/=Metalhead said:


Since I started flying in this game back in 2016, small bombs were always more profitable, like in reality. It's funny that most of blue team bombers never noticed that, and kept hauling those huge cakes doing minimal damage when bombing loosely packed targets.

 

I cannot agree. He111 with 1000kg made fun ( in 2018, 2019). I hope that the devs will manage it somehow.

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=/Hospiz/=MetalHead
3 minutes ago, Norz said:

 

I cannot agree. He111 with 1000kg made fun ( in 2018, 2019). I hope that the devs will manage it somehow.


While decent when used against defenses and stuff like that, I still preferred 8x250 loadout for area damage back then. Now it's all about loading as much 50 or 100kg bombs as possible.

Some blue pilots gave me nightmares using that huge bomb though. For some reason, there was always one or two blue pilots, who think that 1000kg is perfect antitank weapon, so they take their Stuka and load this absurdly huge bomb, then barely take off, and when they finally manage to get anywhere near the tank column, they drop it without proper aiming, usually missing completely and nearly killing themselves and some friendly attackers doing their job with guns. There is a running meme in my squad, about friendly Stuka with 1000kg bomb being the most dangerous thing on TAW, when flying blue. I can only imagine how scary it would be, if the 1800 kg one was available 😄
 

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1 hour ago, =/Hospiz/=Metalhead said:

Now it's all about loading as much 50 or 100kg bombs as possible.

 

 

It had always been this way. 100kg bombs are hilariously easy to use against tanks, and almost any bomb kills buildings with a direct hit (not always the case for 50kgs)

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3 hours ago, JG5_Schuck said:

 

Well all i see is a lot of players saying how bad it is, but no one coming up with any good suggestions!!

At least i am trying to make a positive contribution and not negative comments.....

 

So what do you think will help?

 

The LG guys have done a great job with this server, and if i had to listen to half of this moaning,.........

 


My point is there is no need to toughen up the rules with regards to the "value of a life". If you do that with the current skew in numbers, you will find yourself on an empty server. Also, it helps to view the situation from a perspective of ground attack pilot. If you fly on a 109, it is very easy to take care of your life: once you are in a danger, you can almost always run away. If you fly an IL-2, you get a lot less options, and there is also deadly AAA that will punish you for any mistakes you make. Flying a ground attacker is extremely risky unless you have a total air superiority, so no need to make those people suffer more than they are going through now.

With regards to the numbers, I don't know what to do. There was a proposal to balance squads before the start of the campaign, but I am not sure if it is going to help. Some might join in the middle of a campaign, or just ignore it altogether. It seems that too many folks are attached to their 109s.

Edited by mincer
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18 hours ago, mincer said:

 

Suppose that you:

1) Fly on the side that has 20 pilots on the server, and your opponents have 40

2) Most of those 40 players are flying fighters

3) Their fighter planes are superior, and their weapons are a lot, lot more deadlier than yours

 

How would you try to save your virtual life while doing something useful for your team? Thank you.

 

Ok let me explain,

Using your hypothetical example (although this does happen on TAW).

Your 20 pilots would need good planning and coordination, attack one target at a time (something the reds did to great effect this time,  even when outnumbered!) and gain local air superiority.

The chances of the majority of the 40 are flying fighters is slim, but if they where, chances are they will not all be circling one target waiting for you!

Plus nobody has ever won a map using just fighters!!

Check the map, see where the enemy are, and attack somewhere else..... simple and effective?

Using the points system i suggested would mean a bomber pilot who was killed would have the default load out for 3 flights if he could get 200 experience points per successful bombing mission (although some bomber pilots were scoring in excess of 350, and some 400!).

So it wouldn't take too long to gain back your unlocks (unless you were killed on every map!)

And fighter pilots with 2 kills scored on average 150 points meaning 4 missions, although the majority of fighter pilots seemed to have no kills and were either killed (experience would be set to zero) or gained about 50 points for completing a mission, so would take a lot longer.

On a side note, most LW fighter pilots seemed to me to be inexperienced, (and died on masse) believing the LW planes to be easier to fly.

Fighter pilots would in fact be greatly disadvantaged by the system. And maybe they would think twice about attacking bomber formations alone, or disengage when damaged to preserve the pilots life.

Really the only people this system would effect would be people with a massive amount of deaths/hr/mission, compared to say the top bomber pilot (one death in 28 hrs) or top fighter pilot (none in 67 hrs) 

Whether this system would help i do not know, implementing it for a campaign to see and reverting back if it doesn't work i guess........ what is the harm?

TAW is constantly evolving through people's ideas and suggestions, not people moaning how they don't like it!

Its difficult, i know, but if as people suggest, they purely want balance, every map would end in a draw!

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12 minutes ago, JG5_Schuck said:

The chances of the majority of the 40 are flying fighters is slim, but if they where, chances are they will not all be circling one target waiting for you!


Unfortunately, the amount of targets for bombers on TAW is very limited, and it is very predictable where the major action is going to take place. What happens most of the time is that there is a single tank column that is about to capture a town, and the opposing team has to destroy it at all cost. When I fly red,  half of the axis team will be right over target, and the other one will be searching for bombers en route and camping airfields. Been there, done that. Of course, the bombers could attack something useless like a rear defense of a town not under attack, but it is as useful as not flying at all.

BTW, have you ever done ground attack on regular basis, like strafing columns and defenses?

Edited by mincer
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=2ndSS=Lawyer1
17 minutes ago, JG5_Schuck said:

if as people suggest, they purely want balance, every map would end in a draw!

This is absolutely not the case. We ask for a balance on the number of pilots. For example, in football or hockey, teams start playing with the same number of players, and not all games there end in a draw.

Red and blue have different planes, different weapons, and different levels of training. The team that uses its planes and weapons better should win, not the one that is in the majority and asks to remove the remaining opponents from the server.

If there are more of you, it should be a shame to suggest restrictions for the other team.

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There you go,

Mincer and Lawyer, you have very much proved my point. 

Although i think you may have misunderstood me...

I don't find the balance at the moment an issue in game play,  or out come...

I mean there were far more LW pilots registered than VVS, and the servers were never short of LW pilots, but they still lost 4-2?

It  seems to me the better organised team/squads will always come out on top irrespective of numbers!

So i ask again...What would you guys do to address the issues that have been raised? 

 

And yes Mincer, i tried out the 110 almost from start to finish in one campaign, i believe i was killed 3 times in total, but lost 

a fair few more planes and had to resort to flying Jabo for a while for the CM's.

 

There are people on this server who want to win maps at all costs, there are others who want the most points/kills and gain rewards for their efforts, 

and there are others who try to complete the campaign in a realistic manner with one virtual pilot life...

The actual outcome of the campaign is not as important to some as the enjoyment and experience....

 

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1 hour ago, JG5_Schuck said:

So i ask again...What would you guys do to address the issues that have been raised? 


I wrote a couple of pages ago:

  

On 11/25/2020 at 8:06 AM, mincer said:

I think what @xJammer wrote makes a lot of sense. Two things I would like to add:

1) As was said multiple times: random tank attacks that make no sense are very frustrating. Maybe allow people with certain ranks to vote for direction of the attacks?
2) There should be a mitigation for "stack the empty server" meta. Please note that it affects both sides. A lot of pilots who "play the map" are very discouraged when what they gain while playing against well-organized and numerous opposition is wiped out next morning by folks flying in empty sky.  It is a serious issue because it really drives many away people from playing on the server. They just see no point in flying risky ground attack missions if they know it will be 100% in vain. There were numerous suggestions to address this, from my point of view the most sensible ones were about scaling down damage during lopsided times and slowing down tanks so that the front line changes are not as dramatic.  

 

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1 hour ago, JG5_Schuck said:

 

I don't find the balance at the moment an issue in game play,  or out come...

I mean there were far more LW pilots registered than VVS, and the servers were never short of LW pilots, but they still lost 4-2?

It  seems to me the better organised team/squads will always come out on top irrespective of numbers!


(...)

 

The actual outcome of the campaign is not as important to some as the enjoyment and experience....

 


The issue IS the enjoyment and experience. When there are long moments of big imbalance it’s less enjoyable for both sides, regardless of outcome.

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1 minute ago, WokeUpDead said:


The issue IS the enjoyment and experience. When there are long moments of big imbalance it’s less enjoyable for both sides, regardless of outcome.


Yes. There is no joy in pissing against the wind.

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Hello fellow pilots!
Thank you for participating in our last campaign and we invite you to the next one, as you know, Western Front.
In the meantime, let's summarize your recent achievements.
Congratulations on doing such great job.
Only Cups this time.


128717109_2856725897972046_1913158326428

128542940_2856725927972043_4155168059051

128271936_2856725917972044_8897571430748

128351027_2856725971305372_3591642479942

128194749_2856726007972035_8431032311943

 

Best Fighters



128543744_2856727014638601_4417172459759

 

128363080_2856727007971935_7012216578539

 

128551892_2856727041305265_6883128398502

 

128701092_2856727107971925_3317691388485

 

128530275_2856727127971923_3787097483948

 

 

Best Bombers

 



128702764_2856727531305216_2021429961168

 

128729957_2856727537971882_5173409600966

 

128701092_2856727567971879_8136090936045

 

128624850_2856727614638541_1648348616565

 

128157371_2856727647971871_1439379534522

 

 

Best Tank Killers

 



128634484_2856728734638429_2705268107986

 

128662954_2856728741305095_1235129345261

 

128701091_2856728721305097_4233837113015

 

128883201_2856728807971755_2176223380583

 

128858220_2856728837971752_3614796071617

 

 

Best Fighter Squads

 



128580056_2856729267971709_8244150890231

 

128949514_2856729251305044_2099991701265

 

128187261_2856729284638374_6356209221524

 

128701086_2856729357971700_2194135956454

 

128428540_2856729384638364_3299121882121

 

 

Best Bomber Squads

 



128740246_2856729777971658_3691514531908

 

128744147_2856729771304992_8397339530298

 

127960661_2856729747971661_1704917474257

 

128514659_2856729821304987_2104662350637

 

128812483_2856729841304985_4282883356071

 

 

Best Tank Killer Squads

 



128525113_2856730211304948_8627318992069

 

128565627_2856730204638282_3551776520854

 

128588783_2856730177971618_6388510263195

 

128534508_2856730264638276_3978707625671

 

128689308_2856730281304941_7847976345788

 

 

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7 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

@=LG=Piciu  Tomcat się pyta a gdzie dyplom dla niego ? ;)

O wszelkiego rodzaju lewiznach, łapówkach i innych szemranych sprawach to do Kathona;)

Edited by =LG=Piciu
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On 11/29/2020 at 4:50 AM, mincer said:


My point is there is no need to toughen up the rules with regards to the "value of a life". If you do that with the current skew in numbers, you will find yourself on an empty server. Also, it helps to view the situation from a perspective of ground attack pilot. If you fly on a 109, it is very easy to take care of your life: once you are in a danger, you can almost always run away. If you fly an IL-2, you get a lot less options, and there is also deadly AAA that will punish you for any mistakes you make. Flying a ground attacker is extremely risky unless you have a total air superiority, so no need to make those people suffer more than they are going through now.

With regards to the numbers, I don't know what to do. There was a proposal to balance squads before the start of the campaign, but I am not sure if it is going to help. Some might join in the middle of a campaign, or just ignore it altogether. It seems that too many folks are attached to their 109s.

Этот прием называется "софистика". You should not knowingly give a false message as an argument. 
If you mention 109m, then cite La-5 as an example, and if you are talking about Il-2, then take Henschel-129 as an example. And then you talk about different classes of aircraft and present this nonsense to the truth.

 


 
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19 minutes ago, =FSG=FRITZ said:

Этот прием называется "софистика". You should not knowingly give a false message as an argument. 
If you mention 109m, then cite La-5 as an example, and if you are talking about Il-2, then take Henschel-129 as an example. And then you talk about different classes of aircraft and present this nonsense to the truth.

 

 

Can you go deeply with your example of the La5? I don't understand what you mean.

Edited by Norz
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26.11.2020 в 11:07, Norz сказал:

I can bet: this player is one of them who said that 109g2 is better than 109f4.

Which is better, yellow or green?
Which is better, a truck or a bus?
Maybe you want to show a graph of the speed from F4 and G2?

26.11.2020 в 11:08, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 сказал:

This is the funniest thing I've read here :rofl:

I laughed for a long time too :lol:

26.11.2020 в 15:19, CSW_Rannisokol сказал:

This Is what game specifications say, right? But Yak-1 and LaGG-3 were in operational state from the start of the war. The Yak-1 ser.69 only means, that this is one of the production series and it is very similar to the first series, which were already in use in 1941. Same with LaGG-3, ...

At the same time, the difference is significant, with the M-105PA motor and ~ 1050 hp.
Is this the same as the ser.69 М-105ПФ and 1210 hp?
Read more :)

26.11.2020 в 23:51, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard сказал:

So the planesets have to be a compromise, otherwise it would be just each planeset expansion per map with the relevant collector planes here and there, like a typical server mission.

This is all true, but you must admit that in the list that I gave, the blue side often uses old planes.

Edited by JGr8_Leopard
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Regarding the use of the Po-2, I would love to see it as a special operations plane, bringing saboteurs into enemy territory.

 

We could use airfields that are not being used, close to the targets (like depots or airfields) that would be marked on the map only for the red team with a small circle (similar to the Ju-52 para missions). The Po-2 would need to successfully land, turn off is engine, turn on is engine (or some type of countdown of 30s to 1m), take off and land safely in a friendly airfield. This would cause a 10% damage on the target with a 50% chance probability  

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29.11.2020 в 05:50, mincer сказал:

My point is there is no need to toughen up the rules with regards to the "value of a life". If you do that with the current skew in numbers, you will find yourself on an empty server.

Whenever suggest increasing the penalties for deaths and kamikaze attacks, start shouting about an empty server. You just need to stop attacking the target in case of a REAL danger of being shot down. Do not hang on the tail to the end, do not fly alone to the rear / to the target where the enemy is, but turn away, take a partner, gather as a team. It is so simple!

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59 minutes ago, JGr8_Leopard said:

Maybe you want to show a graph of the speed from F4 and G2?

109f4 is faster at 100m . What do you want to know additionally?

 

 

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