Tactical Air War

[KoN_]

9 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

@=LG=Kathon could you please check the posts written about cocho and aion incident? It's been 10 days and there was no answer yet.
 

 

And as @JG4_Deciman wrote in a following post (and heavily upvoted by the community): the rules should be applied the same to all the players, it would be bad to have a case of preference / double standards in place.

Is he banned permanent ?

This Attack was on me . I had three on me once i dropped my payload and started to escape . I had no chance of getting away . ! 

I bailed but one pilot had it in his mind to shoot me in my chute . But killed his own player . !!!

The Story is don`t chute kill . You clearly had the advantage your team was out numbering us 3 : 1 . on the server if i remember . 

With these odds is there any need to chute kill . !!!

So banned for 24 hours yes , But the stats replaced NO . ! Just take your punishment .

I never shoot chutes in any server i find it quite sad . 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by KoN_

[todeskvlt]

New things are coming... slowly.

 

[JG4_Deciman]

48 minutes ago, KoN_ said:

Is he banned permanent ?

This Attack was on me . I had three on me once i dropped my payload and started to escape . I had no chance of getting away . ! 

I bailed but one pilot had it in his mind to shoot me in my chute . But killed his own player . !!!

The Story is don`t chute kill . You clearly had the advantage your team was out numbering us 3 : 1 . on the server if i remember . 

With these odds is there any need to chute kill . !!!

So banned for 24 hours yes , But the stats replaced NO . ! Just take your punishment .

I never shoot chutes in any server i find it quite sad . 

 

 

Don't know if perma banned, but it seems so.

 

And the banned player is not the one that killed his teammate in his chute,

it's the player who shot his teammates plane by accident...

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

4 hours ago, KoN_ said:

Is he banned permanent ?

This Attack was on me . I had three on me once i dropped my payload and started to escape . I had no chance of getting away . ! 

I bailed but one pilot had it in his mind to shoot me in my chute . But killed his own player . !!!

The Story is don`t chute kill . You clearly had the advantage your team was out numbering us 3 : 1 . on the server if i remember . 

With these odds is there any need to chute kill . !!!

So banned for 24 hours yes , But the stats replaced NO . ! Just take your punishment .

I never shoot chutes in any server i find it quite sad . 

 

 

My mate didnt shoot anyone in the parachute, read properly please. Its been the second time you had been corrected already 

Edited October 25, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Kola_US]

Hi Kathon

Could you please explain why Lotoshino is closed?

Mission #179, Lotoshino @41%, and the distance from attacking blue tanks more than 30km.

The result is not quite good, because AFs are located not too far, both front-line AFs get closed by 1 tank convoy.

See the picture below.

Thanks

 

[=LG/F=Kathon]

14 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

@=LG=Kathon could you please check the posts written about cocho and aion incident? It's been 10 days and there was no answer yet.
 

 

And as @JG4_Deciman wrote in a following post (and heavily upvoted by the community): the rules should be applied the same to all the players, it would be bad to have a case of preference / double standards in place.

OK, so here is the answer:

Mission #27 - I was flying with StaryMruk. He was attacked and damaged by -=PHX=-Satch. We had to RTB, sortie lost. Ok it happens. "Sorry..." on the chat, no complains from StaryMruk.

Mission #48 - Complains from =LG=Aion. From his story and logs point of view it looked like shoulder shooting. I checked stats of your squad and found out that in mission #16 there was another friendly fire. So I decided to ground Cocho for next 12 missions in that case. I'm sure it wasn't done on purpose but if someone is damaged by a friendly and he complains then he gets ground for 12 missions. Deliberately attack then permanent ban. Friendly fire with pilot killed 36 missions. If you shot down friendly aircraft then you get -300 exp by the script automatically. 

 

Could -=PHX=-cocho have avoided this situation by making sure there was no one below him during his approach? -  yes

Could I have asked him about this issue before grounding him? - yes and it will be good procedure in the future. 

If we all improve our actions it will be good for the others and the server (less friendly fire and grounds).

 

If -=PHX=-cocho thinks he did everything perfect than I can say "I'm sorry" and ground myself for next 12 missions. (it's recommended  because I have to test new Kuban map and add Yak-9 and 9T to the plain set).

 

Regarding chute kill by =LG=todeskvlt it was up to Aion but he didn't complain. I only ground someone if I get complain. 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Maverick_VVS said:

Hi Kathon

Could you please explain why Lotoshino is closed?

Mission #179, Lotoshino @41%, and the distance from attacking blue tanks more than 30km.

The result is not quite good, because AFs are located not too far, both front-line AFs get closed by 1 tank convoy.

See the picture below.

Thanks

 

Hi,

Please check a reason in the briefing tab in the game. Every closed airfield has description why it's closed. In this particular situation Lotoshino is closed because it was captured in the previous mission and now need to be repaired. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by =LG=Kathon

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Not gonna lie. this current who-is-gonna-form-the-larger-raid meta is kinda boring. Both teams have their 20 man blob and is attacking some airfield. The rest of the map is just dead.
There is action two times per mission somewhere on the map, but if you aren't flying in large blob yourself you wont be able to do much anyway.

So you either end up in a massive fight, or you fly for 2h and maaybe can discharge your guns twice. And no, I am not flying in space all the time. 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by DerSheriff

[UFA_Bagel]

1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

Not gonna lie. this current who-is-gonna-form-the-larger-raid meta is kinda boring. Both teams have their 20 man blob and is attacking some airfield. The rest of the map is just dead.
There is action two times per mission somewhere on the map, but if you aren't flying in large blob yourself you wont be able to do much anyway.

So you either end up in a massive fight, or you fly for 2h and maaybe can discharge your guns twice. And no, I am not flying in space all the time. 

 

 

I have even tried to fight this blob alone twice without much success just because I cant find any other action most of the times.? I am coming when they are leaving. I am leaving when they are coming. I decide to patrol the north but they attack the south.? I am talking about the full server.

 

Maybe, the area of action should be smaller.

Edited October 25, 2020 by elegz

[FTC_DerSheriff]

1 minute ago, elegz said:

 

I have even tried to fight this blob alone twice without much success just because I cant find any other action.? I am coming when they are leaving. I am leaving when they are coming. I decide to patrol north but they attack south.?

 

Maybe, the area of action should be smaller.

or more targets. so that one blob isnt cutting it.

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

I have been saying this for like 2 years now but TAW suffers from this meta for years now.

 

- Distance between objectives, airfields and frontlines are too close together.

- There is no way to effectively form any kind of defense against a Big raid.

 

This results in the "who is doing a better job at attacking with big blobs" meta. While i actually think it is a good thing that organizing is promoted and effective, i don't think it is good that it only suits the attacking side.* What can be done about it?

 

- Increase space/distance between objectives, airfields and frontlines.

- Implement some form of spotting notifications system that gives a rough estimate of location and number of enemy aircrafts.

 

Concerning a spotting system, the devil is in the detail but i think an implementation is possible without it becoming a modern radar.

 

*Axis side profits a lot more from this meta as well, which should be considered too.

[CisTerDRock]

6 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

OK, so here is the answer:

 

FrienRegarding chute kill by =LG=todeskvlt it was up to Aion but he didn't complain. I only ground someone if I get complain. 

 

 

 

 

 

=LG=todeskvlt killed me hanging from my chute, as well. The Axis were outnumbering us in that rotation, and he wasn't even the one who got hits on my plane, he just flew past after the fight and shot me.

 

I could care less about stats, or dying. I can earn them back if I want. It's the poor sportsmanship that very few people display. 

 

Obviously, I wasn't the first one tode has chute killed. 

 

No hard feelings in the end, though. It is just a game after all.  

 

It's also a great motivator to do a lot of damage. A lot.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by D-Rock

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

5 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

Not gonna lie. this current who-is-gonna-form-the-larger-raid meta is kinda boring. Both teams have their 20 man blob and is attacking some airfield. The rest of the map is just dead.
There is action two times per mission somewhere on the map, but if you aren't flying in large blob yourself you wont be able to do much anyway.

So you either end up in a massive fight, or you fly for 2h and maaybe can discharge your guns twice. And no, I am not flying in space all the time. 

 

Earlier in this map and for the most of the campaign the red side was routinely outnumbered 2:1 or 3:1. The only way for us to keep the campaign being competitive was to outorganize the opposing side. Sorry for making things boring.

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

7 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

or more targets. so that one blob isnt cutting it.

Maybe try attacking some targets yourself?

[Chivas_Regal]

7 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Distance between objectives, airfields and frontlines are too close together.

Taking into account the broken airfields, the distance to the targets reaches from 50 to 90 km. Which is quite historic for the Eastern front

As far as I know, there were always groups flying at the front, especially attacking planes. Singles usually flew in the rear. This is what is happening on the server right now. In the rear of the fly individual aircraft supply. Now, to fly a red plane alone over the front, you need to be either a very brave guy or crazy

[FTC_DerSheriff]

27 minutes ago, mincer said:

Maybe try attacking some targets yourself?

We did!

 

I did some level bombing. We did some raids against defenses and tanks. I covered one airfield raid. We had no opposition. There was the odd fighter turning up. But that was it. But we did "forgo a lot of glory" because there was none to be had.

 

In the rest of the sorties we were doing some "ez pz" defense against larger raids. With limited success. We are all the time on srs and helping other squadrons.

All of the above was not particularly exciting.

 

[Giovanni_Giorgio]

52 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

We did!

 

I did some level bombing. We did some raids against defenses and tanks. I covered one airfield raid. We had no opposition. There was the odd fighter turning up. But that was it. But we did "forgo a lot of glory" because there was none to be had.

 

In the rest of the sorties we were doing some "ez pz" defense against larger raids. With limited success. We are all the time on srs and helping other squadrons.

All of the above was not particularly exciting.

 

Well, maybe there were just not enough pilots on the server on the red side at that particular moment. 

Also, it is fine to not encounter opposition every time. I recently listened to an interview with a historian who specialize on Il-2, and he said that in late 1943 the pilots encountered fighters one out of 10 sorties or so.

Edited October 26, 2020 by mincer

[FTC_DerSheriff]

34 minutes ago, mincer said:

Well, maybe there were just not enough pilots on the server on the red side at that particular moment. 

Also, it is fine to not encounter opposition every time. I recently listened to a historian who specialize on Il-2, and he said that in late 1943 the pilots encountered fighters one out of 10 sorties or so.

40 vs 40

and reality doesnt matter, since we dont simulate reality on TAW. In reality aircrafts around moscow werent limited to 84 nor were they more or less guaranteed to be 84.

Edited October 26, 2020 by DerSheriff

[Chivas_Regal]

12 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

40 vs 40

And what prevented you from finding opponents on a full server?

[FTC_DerSheriff]

2 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

And what prevented you from finding opponents on a full server?

They didn't show up. We were at the defenses, covered a tank raid, flew towards lotoshino a red airfield. Suppressed a larger raid, tried to intercept remnants of a larger raid at Ryabinky.
We got into a few engagements.
But nothing of substance. And this is a theme for multiple TAW campaigns.
 

 

First we were covering the defenses, then a tank raid, and after  that we suppressed a larger enemy raid from loto.

We saw some targets, but they disengaged quickly (understandably). Next to the large raids the map is just dead. that is my point.

Edited October 26, 2020 by DerSheriff

[Chivas_Regal]

32 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

But nothing os substance.

For me personally, something special will happen when one of the sides wins a map. But to do this, you need to work out, no matter how boring it may seem. The victory will be on the side of the most hardworking team

Edited October 26, 2020 by =2ndSS=Lawyer1

[todeskvlt]

8 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

For me personally, something special will happen when one of the sides wins a map.

 

End of the world I hope.

[FTC_DerSheriff]

26 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

The victory will be on the side of the most hardworking team

Usually I like when the "hard working" part is in my real life and the fun stuff happens in my spare time. I guess the definition of "fun" may vary.

[Chivas_Regal]

1 hour ago, =LG=todeskvlt said:

 

End of the world I hope.

It's not that dramatic. Now there is a very good campaign in which it is equally interesting to win or lose

50 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

Usually I like when the "hard working" part is in my real life and the fun stuff happens in my spare time. I guess the definition of "fun" may vary.

Everyone decides how to spend their free time and have fun. If I wasn't interested in playing on this server, I wouldn't play on it.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

Next to the large raids the map is just dead. that is my point.

I will say, after many campaigns on TAW observing both the visual status of targets on the ground over the course of a mission and the scoreboard(including when the server is full), I have absolutely no idea what a large portion of pilots do.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

8 hours ago, D-Rock said:

=LG=todeskvlt killed me hanging from my chute, as well. The Axis were outnumbering us in that rotation, and he wasn't even the one who got hits on my plane, he just flew past after the fight and shot me.

 

I could care less about stats, or dying. I can earn them back if I want. It's the poor sportsmanship that very few people display. 

 

Obviously, I wasn't the first one tode has chute killed. 

 

No hard feelings in the end, though. It is just a game after all.  

 

It's also a great motivator to do a lot of damage. A lot.

 

He is on the axis side and you on the opposite side. People during the war are killed: armed, defenseless, soldiers, civilians....

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by =LG=Kathon

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

4 hours ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Taking into account the broken airfields, the distance to the targets reaches from 50 to 90 km. Which is quite historic for the Eastern front

As far as I know, there were always groups flying at the front, especially attacking planes. Singles usually flew in the rear. This is what is happening on the server right now. In the rear of the fly individual aircraft supply. Now, to fly a red plane alone over the front, you need to be either a very brave guy or crazy

 

Why would you take broken airfields into account?

 

It is true that flying solo as red is pretty much suicide or very boring depending on your approach and i don't blame people for organizing, quite the opposite! i was always advocating for changes that promote organization and teamplay! I just want it to be possible to organize defensively as well.

 

And because i get the feeling that some people will make this out to be some sort of complain because of me flying blue this campaign, i will say again that i think that it is an even bigger issue for the red side. Most blue aircraft can at least decide when or if to fight at all. No such luck for VVS aircrafts. If your airfield is getting raided and you happen to be in the area and get engaged you are in for a very bad time.

[2/JG26_rudidlo]

12 hours ago, DerSheriff said:

or you fly for 2h and maaybe can discharge your guns twice

I read a lot of books full of similar stories. Fighters covering bombers had visual with enemy fighter squads a lot of times, but they didn't leave them. That's what is not happening in the game.

[Chivas_Regal]

18 minutes ago, 1stCL/rudidlo said:

That's what is not happening in the game.

Sometimes it is happening. Recently, we did a raid and saw a Ju-88 flying past. Our fighters did not attack it, because they had the task to cover their bombers from attack

 

36 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Why would you take broken airfields into account?

 

Because this is reality. Currently, you have to fly quite far to the goal

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

21 minutes ago, =2ndSS=Lawyer1 said:

Because this is reality. Currently, you have to fly quite far to the goal

 

I am not advocating for increased distances between objectives because of realism. I am advocating for it because it will, together with a spotting system, enable defenders to have a chance to react and organize a defense. Airfields are an objective and therefor shouldn't be dismissed. Objectives are still spawning close to them.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Operation_Ivy

[Retrofly]

I think some sort of spotting system that take into account the size/number of planes together could be pretty useful. E.G a 2 flight having a low chance to be spotted and reported, but as the number grow the chance of being spotted and reported to the team is greater. Not sure how easy that would be trying to take into account "groups" of planes.

[LLv34_Temuri]

26 minutes ago, Retrofly said:

I think some sort of spotting system that take into account the size/number of planes together could be pretty useful.

This would pretty much require these things to be implemented:

 

[Retrofly]

11 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

This would pretty much require these things to be implemented:

 

Well you need to be able to count the number of objects ina given area, I dont know if those variables are given to the mission makers or if there's a way to work it out.

 

I wonder if something will be included with elusive Marshall mode, where a player can spot targets on a map and call it out the the team in a similar way GCI's work for DCS.

[LLv34_Temuri]

3 minutes ago, Retrofly said:

Well you need to be able to count the number of objects ina given area, I dont know if those variables are given to the mission makers or if there's a way to work it out.

Perhaps could be done via mission editor logic, but is an exercise in pain and will cause significant amount of server load to pull off. There are no good tools currently to this now. You get mission log entries only if someone shoots etc. No location data otherwise.

[56RAF_phoenix56]

Mission oddity - unless I'm not understanding.

I just flew mission 189, which has a target at Karmanovo (1508), listed on the current mission webpage and on the mission planner map.

On arrival there was no target there. Inspecting the mission file shows no target there.

 

It's possible I'm not understanding and it was deactivated for this mission, but it seems more likely something is out of sync.

 

56RAF_phoenix56

Edited October 26, 2020 by 56RAF_phoenix56
Corrected map number

[E69_Cachash]

Hi guys,

 

Is the U-2vs available for transport missions? Today I did a mission from Ramene (0% damage) to Nesterovo (90% damage and closed) and the result was ditched. I set the plane with 100% fuel, empty load and I just added the navigation lights ...

 

http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32699&name=E69_Cachash

 

[Cathaoir]

Had the same thing happen to me flying a U2 transport...had the rear gunner which I thought was allowed as it is needed to sit in the rear seat.  went to Solodilovo..which was closed, landed and also got a ditch....http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32725&name=Cathaoir

Edited October 26, 2020 by Cathaoir

[56RAF_phoenix56]

I think the database of fields and targets may be out-of-sync with the published maps.

That would explain the experiences above.

 

56RAF_phoenix

[WokeUpDead]

7 hours ago, Operation_Ivy said:

It is true that flying solo as red is pretty much suicide or very boring depending on your approach and i don't blame people for organizing, quite the opposite! i was always advocating for changes that promote organization and teamplay! I just want it to be possible to organize defensively as well.

I’d like to be able to see the present strength of friendly and maybe also enemy ground targets via chat command, like on Finnish Virtual Pilots. This would let defenders see which targets are getting hit, which ones are still worth protecting and which ones are pretty much dead. This would increase the likelihood of meeting enemies over a target. 

[AKA_Relent]

2 hours ago, 56RAF_phoenix56 said:

Mission oddity - unless I'm not understanding.

I just flew mission 189, which has a target at Karmanovo (1508), listed on the current mission webpage and on the mission planner map.

On arrival there was no target there. Inspecting the mission file shows no target there.

 

It's possible I'm not understanding and it was deactivated for this mission, but it seems more likely something is out of sync.

 

56RAF_phoenix56

Looking at the map for that mission, that location at 1508 is not a target, but simply a city that does not have an airfield nearby.  If you look at the main TAW page, you will see that Karmanovo has nothing under the Damage column in the Axis Cities table.  Thus in the map, you see that icon (square with buildings inside) denoting it as a city to be captured.  It would have defensive positions around it at that time, just like an airfield, but otherwise would not be an air target.

 

Sometimes there will be a depot at a non-airfield location, then you would see the circle icon with the factory inside (like at 1522) super-imposed over the box icon (hard to see I know) - but more importantly it would have “Attack” next to that location in the in-game map if that was the case.

 

Hope that helps clarify.

Edited October 26, 2020 by AKA_Relent

[JG4_Deciman]

5 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

This would pretty much require these things to be implemented:

 

 

Just entered a new posting there.

 

There are 2 simple (in usage, but maybe not in implementing) things

that would make life much easier when having to parse and use the generated server logs...

 

Deci