Tactical Air War

[=AD=Str1ke]

Red Stars squad on red side, try to call all veterans.

Too use google translater: text on poster: На земле и над землей мы зажмем врага петлёй!

Waiting for new campaing, glad to see all Vpilots!

[StG77_Kondor]

10 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Kamm said:

Here's my sophisticated explanation. The vast majority of pilots that WANT to kill tanks fly VVS.

Chiming in as a tank killer, it is vastly easier to rack up the kills and streak flying VVS vs. OKL. The tanks themselves are weaker, the AA is set up in a way that it has directional weaknesses, whereas Russian tank columns have 360 degree coverage and the legendary toughness of the T-34 compared to even Panzer IVs that can be killed with just a few 23mm shells. 

I don't for one second expect to achieve the score or streak that I had in the previous campaign as VVS when  I fly OKL in the upcoming campaign.

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

3 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Chiming in as a tank killer, it is vastly easier to rack up the kills and streak flying VVS vs. OKL. The tanks themselves are weaker, the AA is set up in a way that it has directional weaknesses, whereas Russian tank columns have 360 degree coverage and the legendary toughness of the T-34 compared to even Panzer IVs that can be killed with just a few 23mm shells. 

I don't for one second expect to achieve the score or streak that I had in the previous campaign as VVS when  I fly OKL in the upcoming campaign.

 

But don't you know? Blue players simply don't want to kill tanks...they don't want to win ?

[=SqSq=Civilprotection]

3 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Chiming in as a tank killer, it is vastly easier to rack up the kills and streak flying VVS vs. OKL. The tanks themselves are weaker, the AA is set up in a way that it has directional weaknesses, whereas Russian tank columns have 360 degree coverage and the legendary toughness of the T-34 compared to even Panzer IVs that can be killed with just a few 23mm shells. 

I don't for one second expect to achieve the score or streak that I had in the previous campaign as VVS when  I fly OKL in the upcoming campaign.

I'm not sure how to compare one sides column to the other. The German tanks are not super hard to kill, but all their medium tanks require the same amount of effort. Russian columns have bt7 tanks that can be killed in one shot, t34 tanks that can be two shot, and KV tanks that require a lot of work. However, at least on the Moscow maps, it seems Russian columns consist mostly of bt7 tanks. Flak aside, effort required to destroy a column on either side seems comparable. Even so, the IL2 is a clear advantage for the Russian team.

 

In my experience on TAW, with stationary columns, and if I am perfect in my runs, I get the following kill counts.

Hs. 129 (MK 103 AP): 5x T34 tanks

Ju 87 (BK 3.7cm AP): 12x bt7 tanks, or 6x T34 tanks, or 2x KV1 tanks

IL2 1941/42 (23mm AP & 6x 100kg): 11x German medium tanks (stug III, panzer III & IV, etc.)

 

Again, these are perfect runs on a static column. For me, it is clear that Germany can can compete in tank busting, but Russia has the real advantage.

I wonder, has anyone else gotten similar results?

[SCG_Wulfe]

Coming from a blue player...The other question is whether a perfect balance is even what the goal should be. Germany lost all three of these battles in real life. Personally I like the situation and difficulty to lean towards history. We are playing a simulation after all. Destroying some of the Russian tanks was probably a difficult task in world war 2 as well.

If we wanted to make things perfectly balanced we could all fly 109s on both sides and shoot at generic "tanks' that are the same for both sides... doesn't sound like much fun does it? I enjoy any challenge, perceived or real. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by SCG_Wulfe

[StG77_Kondor]

2 hours ago, =SqSq=Civilprotection said:

I'm not sure how to compare one sides column to the other. The German tanks are not super hard to kill, but all their medium tanks require the same amount of effort. Russian columns have bt7 tanks that can be killed in one shot, t34 tanks that can be two shot, and KV tanks that require a lot of work. However, at least on the Moscow maps, it seems Russian columns consist mostly of bt7 tanks. Flak aside, effort required to destroy a column on either side seems comparable. Even so, the IL2 is a clear advantage for the Russian team.

 

In my experience on TAW, with stationary columns, and if I am perfect in my runs, I get the following kill counts.

Hs. 129 (MK 103 AP): 5x T34 tanks

Ju 87 (BK 3.7cm AP): 12x bt7 tanks, or 6x T34 tanks, or 2x KV1 tanks

IL2 1941/42 (23mm AP & 6x 100kg): 11x German medium tanks (stug III, panzer III & IV, etc.)

 

Again, these are perfect runs on a static column. For me, it is clear that Germany can can compete in tank busting, but Russia has the real advantage.

I wonder, has anyone else gotten similar results?

Agreed on most points here  . 

 

I don't remember exactly how many tanks I've killed in one sortie in a Stuka, but your numbers sound about right.

 

But lets take the hardest tank to kill in a Soviet column = KV1, vs the hardest in a German column, a Panzer IV Ausf. F2 and compare. The Panzer IV goes up as easy as a BT-7 does, just 3-4 good hits of VYa 23mm AP and that's one tank down in one strafing run.  As I've said before many, many, many pages ago  in the end the survivability of each sides' tank column is really what determines how a map goes. If one side can neutralize the other's tank column before it even gets close enough to spawn the 'attack arty' then you don't even have to worry about your own sides' tanks. And that's how we get so many maps that just end up being attrition wars that  blue loses, for a variety of other reasons.

Edited June 22, 2018 by StG77_Kondor

[=KK=Des_]

=KK= will fly for blue side.

[JG4_Widukind]

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

 

JG4 goes to..?

Green Side

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blue for sure

[HR_Tumu]

See u on the rainbow Widu, I fly for yelow side ?

 

[Cpt_Siddy]

Go pink or go homo

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Expendables will be

 

 

 

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

Looks like a solid 3/1 ratio again

[JG1_Shadepiece]

ACG will fly red again this campaign in an effort to balance the ratio out a bit.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

4 hours ago, JG4_Widukind said:

JG4 goes to..?

Green Side

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blue for sure

................. Blue

[=LG/F=Kathon]

New TAW campaign starts on Sunday 24.06.18 European morning.

 

 

Major changes:

• Cold start turned off,
• Randomized level of AI gunners,
• No dedicated “transport planes” on the airfields (it was a temporary work around). To fly transport mission take a bomber (no bombs/rockets and 100% fuel) or Ju-52. It works as before now.
• Info about defense position level in each sector available in the mission briefing.
• Info for Axis (radio feature) that their aircraft attacked some Allied targets like convoys, defense position etc. Axis pilots may fly to that sector to protect their aircrafts.
• Axis u-boats near Allied ship convoy. If not destroyed then u-boats will destroy some Allied ships.  
• Towns and buildings layers on Moscow maps (Stalingrad maps will be improved later)
•  Pilot will not score AK if he dies earlier or AK happens during the new sortie (example: pilot damaged enemy aircraft then landed and started a new sortie and then enemy aircraft crashes)

  

 

Registration is open.

 

Good luck!!!

Edited June 23, 2018 by =LG=Kathon

[SCG_ItsDrifter]

Excited, thank you LG team!

[Nightrise]

Any changes to the aircraft lineup? and will the mk9 and G14 be available? 

[JG4_Raven]

8 minutes ago, =FEW=nightrise said:

Any changes to the aircraft lineup? and will the mk9 and G14 be available? 

 

no

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Thank you guys! 

 

I especially like the new feature of radio comms! The Germans had a proper radio network in Operation Barbarossa as well. 

 

Reading Rudel to get into the mood now. 

[HR_Tofolo]

First of all, thanks for the upcoming edition.

 

I would like to remark two things that perhaps should be looked at:

 

First is the hangar capacity:

 

Map#1:

Red Max Planes: 11 (3 "+1s")

Blue Max Planes: 13 (4 "+1s")

 

Map#2:

Red Max Planes: 12 

Blue Max Planes: 15 

 

Map#3:

Red Max Planes: 13 

Blue Max Planes: 16 

 

Map#4:

Red Max Planes: 14

Blue Max Planes: 17 

 

Map#5:

Red Max Planes: 14

Blue Max Planes: 16

 

I think you get the idea.

 

And second is the air capturing stuff. IMHO the blue ability to air-capture should be locked until both sides have  the same features.

 

 

[Norz]

1 hour ago, HR_Tofolo said:

And second is the air capturing stuff. IMHO the blue ability to air-capture should be locked until both sides have  the same features.

 

I have only one question.

 

Did you fly Ju52 on TAW for a capturing?

[=FEW=N3cRoo]

=FEW= will be joining 

[=GW=xshinel]

why not begin on Sunday morning

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Update: Campaign starts on Sunday European morning. 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

First of all, thanks for the upcoming edition.

 

I would like to remark two things that perhaps should be looked at:

 

First is the hangar capacity:

 

I think you get the idea.

 

And second is the air capturing stuff. IMHO the blue ability to air-capture should be locked until both sides have  the same features.

Please take into account that Blues have Ju-87 2/2 and Ju-52 1/1 on most of the maps but they aren't used very frequently. Besides every new campaign is a small test of the plane set, we try to find the balance not only on quantity but also on quality. The idea of lines of planes is still open but it's not easy task to do. Maybe in the future.

 

Reds have IL-2 which destroys tank convoys in the blink of the eye. There is no such aircraft on the Blue side.  Ju-52 is a collector plane, not everyone has it. It takes a lot of time to first destroy the airfield and then to fly Ju-52 with paratroopers. 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by =LG=Kathon

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Thx Kathon! 

Yeah, he's right, the Ju52 is a rare sight and some planes are largely obsolete anyway, it just gives more "choice". On a personal note, I'd love to see the Po-2 released.. ?

 

Regarding the aircraft table: looks good, and I'm curious about lines - maybe next campaign? Rgd the quickly obsolete StuKa: If, on map #3 and onwards, you could unlock the 1800kg bomb for the StuKa Ju-87, it may be able to compete better or actually be useful. 

 

It will still be slow as hell, fragile, easy to intercept and still outclassed by the IL-2 in destroying tanks and other things. 

 

But it will have at least some (!) teeth against ground, if it can bring in that big Jerry bomb against ships or buildings. It'll have a purpose later on. And the sirens indicate a bad boy diving in. 

 

P.S. Not for the other German planes though, they are too fast and don't share the StuKa's weaknesses. ?

[Shyrik]

what [edited] ?? f4 on the second map?

Edited June 23, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[HR_Tofolo]

4 hours ago, =LG=Kathon said:

Update: Campaign starts on Sunday European morning. 

 

 

 

Please take into account that Blues have Ju-87 2/2 and Ju-52 1/1 on most of the maps but they aren't used very frequently. Besides every new campaign is a small test of the plane set, we try to find the balance not only on quantity but also on quality. The idea of lines of planes is still open but it's not easy task to do. Maybe in the future.

 

Reds have IL-2 which destroys tank convoys in the blink of the eye. There is no such aircraft on the Blue side.  Ju-52 is a collector plane, not everyone has it. It takes a lot of time to first destroy the airfield and then to fly Ju-52 with paratroopers. 

 

 

Well the Stukas are stubborn planes and can still carry a good payload (and in the past editions had one of the deadliest gunners in the game) and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft in a single flight or capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

Not to mention that this campaing will have a clear pilot number unbalance in favor of the blues, at the moment the numbers are 2:1.

 

Anyway, it's your work and I think most red players will, as always, fight until the last man regardless of the conditions. 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by HR_Tofolo

[Norz]

36 minutes ago, HR_Tofolo said:

...and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft i.....

 

I will ask again. How many cargo missions did you finish with Ju52?

 

 

 

=LG=Kathon,

 

can you check the planeset ?

 

2nd map was all the time only with e7, f2, mc202. 109F4 should be not allowed there.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Norz

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

I agree, the plane set needs to change!

 

It was probably changed because of the addition of Kuban airplanes but i'd rather have another map than this. As a makeshift solution i would rather play a map twice than this.

[Coldman]

I think it is just a sneak peak of future historical planeset 

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

But its not historical?

[HR_Tumu]

Totally agree with Tofo.

 

2 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

 

 

[Willy__]

Then I'll ask you: how many AF were captured by ju52s last campaign ? I doubt it makes much of a difference otherwise we would already see it on the pasts campaigns yet red still won most of the maps (all but one on the last TAW, lol).

Edited June 23, 2018 by Willy__

[ECV56_Necathor]

Hello LG boys.

Thank you for another edition of TAW.

If you really want a balance fight you don´t need to put gunpods on machis on firts map or in the second map blues can use the F4.

Teamwork is the key to win, but please keep the balance on both sides.

 

Regards

Necathor

[HR_Eldamar]

2 hours ago, Norz said:

 

I will ask again. How many cargo missions did you finish with Ju52?

 

 

 

 

I guess none since the red team does not have that possibility

 

In my opinion there are a couple of unfair things in the planeset quite evident. In the first place I do not see very right that the red team has to wait for the fourth map to have a lagg3 with cannons, while the blue one has the F4 already in the second one. and secondly, on the last maps, people who can not yet enjoy the Kuban map can only fly lagg3 and yak 1b on the map seven and only yak 1b on the last map and can only have one. There is not even the possibility of flying the collection aircraft like La5 or P40

Edited June 23, 2018 by HR_Eldamar

[Norz]

41 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:

 

I guess none since the red team does not have that possibility

 

 

Easy arithmetics

 

Usual cargo mission: 10..12 minutes (Ju88, He 111). (Time to start and take off Ju88, He111 about 2 minutes + time to fly, about 7..9 minutes or less)

 

Time to start and take off Ju52: 5 min

Time to fly usual cargo mission 1.5 x Time for Ju88, He111.

 

There are no reasons to fly with the Ju52 at all. But for sure we have some fans that do it..from time to time. You can finish almost 2 cargo missions with Ju88, He111 instead fly only one with Ju52.

 

You will get 2 CM instead of only 1 CM. and for sure 2x3%..4% is almost the same as 7% cargo with Ju52.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/manual.php

 

You may also resupply friendly airfields by transport airplanes. Transport planes are: Ju 52/3m with cargo, also Pe-2, He-111, Ju-88 with 100% fuel and no bombs and rockets. Ju-52 with cargo resupply airfield by about 7%, others by about 4%. You must takeoff from an airfield damaged less than 40% and successfully land on an airfield damaged more than 0%. If you successful in transport then you get  a Combat Mission.

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Norz

[StG77_Kondor]

8 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Regarding the aircraft table: looks good, and I'm curious about lines - maybe next campaign? Rgd the quickly obsolete StuKa: If, on map #3 and onwards, you could unlock the 1800kg bomb for the StuKa Ju-87, it may be able to compete better or actually be useful. 

 

It will still be slow as hell, fragile, easy to intercept and still outclassed by the IL-2 in destroying tanks and other things. 

 

But it will have at least some (!) teeth against ground, if it can bring in that big Jerry bomb against ships or buildings. It'll have a purpose later on. And the sirens indicate a bad boy diving in. 

 

P.S. Not for the other German planes though, they are too fast and don't share the StuKa's weaknesses. ?

An 1,800kg bomb will make no difference in a Stuka's "punch" against tank columns. It was extremely rare and serves no purpose in TAW. The problem is not the payload of Axis planes. It's the way columns for each side are built. 

 

4 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

 

Well the Stukas are stubborn planes and can still carry a good payload (and in the past editions had one of the deadliest gunners in the game) and the ju-52s can supply more than any other aircraft in a single flight or capture enemy airfields which is a feature that unbalances the campaign. This is not an army-related strength, it's a clear single side advantage.

 

Not to mention that this campaing will have a clear pilot number unbalance in favor of the blues, at the moment the numbers are 2:1.

 

Anyway, it's your work and I think most red players will, as always, fight until the last man regardless of the conditions. 

 

Stukas are far less 'stubborn' than an IL-2 so there's no advantage for blue there  . And as Norz mentioned above, the Ju-52 can supply more, but it takes 2x as much time to complete the same mission in a He-111/Ju-88 transport, and as I previously said, you can supply AF the same in two missions with the faster plane AND get two combat missions instead of one. So in reality the Ju-52 as an AF resupply plane is not optimal. 

Kathon, maybe for this campaign we can keep track of how many AFs Blue captures with Ju-52 Fallschirmjägers. My guess is it will rhyme with 'hero'  

Edited June 23, 2018 by StG77_Kondor

[SCG_ItsDrifter]

Wow... I see alot of people wanting balance, but then i see others wanting historical accuracy. 

 

PLEASE SELECT ONE, THE PLANE SET IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE FAIR IF YOU WANT HISTORICAL ACCURACY 

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

10 minutes ago, SCG_DR1FT3R said:

Wow... I see alot of people wanting balance, but then i see others wanting historical accuracy. 

 

PLEASE SELECT ONE, THE PLANE SET IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE FAIR IF YOU WANT HISTORICAL ACCURACY 

 

The current plane set is neither historical nor balanced.

 

also there is a discussion a couple of pages back about balance.

 

this is a sim game. Balance has no place in it. 

[Inkophile]

On 6/22/2018 at 7:33 PM, =LG=Kathon said:

New TAW campaign starts on Sunday 24.06.18 European morning.

• Randomized level of AI gunners,
•  Pilot will not score AK if he dies earlier or AK happens during the new sortie (example: pilot damaged enemy aircraft then landed and started a new sortie and then enemy aircraft crashes)

 

How random are the gunner skills? Do they go all the way from crappy to super, or medium to super, or bad to medium, or...?

 

Why the change to AK scoring? Is it a technical limitation, or is it just because it is an "unobserved" kill, or...?

 

And one thing about the planeset: How come the Germans get the 109 F-4 on map #2? The F-2 is superior to the MiG already, and it's not like the P-40 can compete other than in turn radius and dive speed, even against the F-2.