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Tactical Air War


=LG=Kathon
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But the game does not take into account that by loosing towns depots and airfields you also loose ressources. So considering this fault it is in vain to conquer territory.

 

But the men and material for the battle aren't drawn from the area at the front. The German equipment came from factories in middle Europe and the men came from, shock of shocks, Germany - Well some of them also came from Hungary and Italy too but the point is the same. For the Soviets the material came from factories that had, in large part, been moved to the other side of the Ural mountains by this point in the war. Capturing territory wouldn't effect either side's resource pools. The brass tacks of it are simple. The only thing that taking territory really effects is which air fields are available for use. What impact this could, should or would have is debatable.

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From a Red side pilot I want to say IMO the Blue side won that map.  You guys had great coordination, rolling over us at the end and pushed us into the corner, well done!

 

Salute!

 

 

AKA_MattE

Edited by AKA_MattE
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From a Red side pilot I want to say IMO the Blue side won that map.  You guys had great coordination, rolling over us at the end and pushed us into the corner, well done!

 

Salute!

 

 

AKA_MattE

!S

 

I will say I was impressed with the Western Prime Time Red pilots who fought insane odds and still managed to pick some of us off.

 

Logging in to the server when it's 10:0 takes cojones, going a collecting a scalp at the same time... that's some Ivan Kozhedub level balls.

 

ivan_kozhedub_03.jpg

Edited by [TWB]80hd
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From a Red side pilot I want to say IMO the Blue side won that map.  You guys had great coordination, rolling over us at the end and pushed us into the corner, well done!

 

Salute!

 

 

AKA_MattE

 

Agree, but thats the issue I guess...we won the territory but lost the battle. If the impact on gaining territory is minimal, the LW should then just change tact and EVERYONE fly fighters. That way we don't lose a/c on attacking targets for no gain and just focus on downing all of reds' a/c. We lose a lot of a/c due to AAA and marauding fighters. The fact that its 4-1 and the same high pilot attrition rate to a/c losses (vs the VVS) for the LW means its not worth attacking targets as the main factor for winning a map seems to be killing more of their pilots than we lose. 

 

So....looks like I'll be swapping my BF110 for a BF109. 

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Agree, but thats the issue I guess...we won the territory but lost the battle. If the impact on gaining territory is minimal, the LW should then just change tact and EVERYONE fly fighters. That way we don't lose a/c on attacking targets for no gain and just focus on downing all of reds' a/c. We lose a lot of a/c due to AAA and marauding fighters. The fact that its 4-1 and the same high pilot attrition rate to a/c losses (vs the VVS) for the LW means its not worth attacking targets as the main factor for winning a map seems to be killing more of their pilots than we lose. 

 

So....looks like I'll be swapping my BF110 for a BF109.

 

 

I actually think that LW is to an increasing degree flying "correctly". There are still a bit too many Hartmanns out there and too few who fly level bombers or jabo, but the way the VVS airfields are pushed back from the front is devestating for the VVS' one and only strength: It's ability to destroy tanks. The increased amount of level bombing both against supply depots, train stations, and especially arfields coupled with a strong fighter presence (after all the LW has both the 109 F-4 as a CM+1 plane plus access to the 190 now, the two best fighters in the game) over Germany's own tanks and defenses makes it near impossible to attack with IL-2s and Pe-2s. If the LW keeps up its current job on map #6 the VVS will be overrun long before there's a chance to win on pilot kills.

Edited by Inkoslav
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I have a few suggestions for the next campaign to increase both balance and accessibility for players.

 

Planeset
  • On map #6 the default plane for the Germans should be Bf 109 G-2 (CM+1), since it was standard issue at that point of the war (spring 1943) and the Bf 109 F-4 should be limited to be earnable (CM). This makes extra much sense since the F-4 is the absolutely best 109 the Germans can have anyway.
     

  • On map #6 the default plane for the Soviets should be the Yak-1 series 69 (CM+1) to become more competitive with the enemy Bf 109s (I can’t find any information on when the series 69 was produced however, but I’d assume around this time at the latest?). The LaGG-3, since it is gradually more useless as a fighter, should be earnable (CM) as it gradually takes on the role of an interceptor rather than air superiority fighter.
     

  • On map #6 (and maybe even map#7) the P-40E needs to remain in Soviet service to serve as a fighter-bomber. Since Russia received over 400 P-40Es in 1942 it is certainly not unlikely that a fair amount survived into 1943 and were still in use. It is the only Russian fighter with decently sized bombs (250 kg and 500 kg). Its terribly low speed still makes it dangerous to use as a fighter-bomber compared to the German planes, which will retain a German superiority for that kind of bombing (which I think is needed for balance).
     

  • On map #6 and map #7 the He 111 H-6 should remain in service, at least as a 0/1 category plane, to give those who only own BOS a chance to fly level-bombing. A compensation for adding that bomber might be to decrease the Ju 88 to a 1/1 category plane, or to give the Russians an extra Pe-2 series 35.

Plane availability
  • For planes that are CM+1 the automatic replenishment from 0 planes to 1 plane through the CM+1 mechanic should occur before the replenishment from earned combat missions. At the moment if a player has done three combat missions and earn a new plane, they might earn a plane that would have been automatically refilled by CM+1. Under some circumstances this makes it less valuable to earn CMs (for example by doing transports) since they won’t give you an additional plane.
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So, as more pilots join the war, we need more manpower

I remember that there was not a single win or lose by exhausting the manpower in the past seasons.

This is a new problem after TAW becoming a more popular server, on this point, this is good, at least. 

 

Well, at the almost end of this season, can we have the Kuban map in season XI? 

Haha

 

Thank you DEV team.

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I actually think that LW is to an increasing degree flying "correctly". There are still a bit too many Hartmanns out there and too few who fly level bombers or jabo, but the way the VVS airfields are pushed back from the front is devestating for the VVS' one and only strength: It's ability to destroy tanks. The increased amount of level bombing both against supply depots, train stations, and especially arfields coupled with a strong fighter presence (after all the LW has both the 109 F-4 as a CM+1 plane plus access to the 190 now, the two best fighters in the game) over Germany's own tanks and defenses makes it near impossible to attack with IL-2s and Pe-2s. If the LW keeps up its current job on map #6 the VVS will be overrun long before there's a chance to win on pilot kills.

 

We lost because we lost more pilots than they did...not because we lost more tanks. from the data i took from last map, for every 10 a/c shot down, LW will lose 7.5 pilots and VVS 6.5 pilots (or something like that). Its sort of the same now. 

 

As at right now on TAW:

LW: 77 pilots/152 a/c = 51%

VVS: 65 pilots/148 a/c = 44%

 

continue that trend (like the last map and I guess the ones before) and just doing what we're doing (regardless of winning territory), VVS will win every time. 

 

I really enjoy TAW but i also like to know why VVS is winning constantly. 

Edited by [ASOR]Pharoah
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We lost because we lost more pilots than they did...not because we lost more tanks. from the data i took from last map, for every 10 a/c shot down, LW will lose 7.5 pilots and VVS 6.5 pilots (or something like that). Its sort of the same now. 

 

As at right now on TAW:

LW: 77 pilots/152 a/c = 51%

VVS: 65 pilots/148 a/c = 44%

 

continue that trend (like the last map and I guess the ones before) and just doing what we're doing (regardless of winning territory), VVS will win every time. 

 

I really enjoy TAW but i also like to know why VVS is winning constantly. 

 

Only in last 2 days I've seen with my own eyes (while taking off or landing)  20+ attacks  of VVS airfields by single LW planes. Its really hard to survive the flak at AF when you do it low level (no chance to bail) and stay over enemy af....

 

The problem is that it seams  that LW attracts many lower skilled players who like to do WOL type of flying.

 

The VVS is most of the time outnumbered and acts a bit more responsible.

The other factor might be, that when You are outnumbered you concentrate on defence so stay over your own territory, so you get captured less often.

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JG700_Rammjager

We lost because we lost more pilots than they did...not because we lost more tanks. from the data i took from last map, for every 10 a/c shot down, LW will lose 7.5 pilots and VVS 6.5 pilots (or something like that). 

 

I really enjoy TAW but i also like to know why VVS is winning constantly. 

 

Why blue loosing more pilots ?

Cuz when blue pilot flying on red side and get shot down - he had 35% chance to get POW status.

But ...the same pilot flying for red side on blue teritory - had only 20% chance to get POW status. (almost 2x less chance to being captured than blue ones)

I was talking about this with Kathon once and I hope he changed this % when You crash landed on enemy teritory cuz it was 20% for red and 50% for blue.

 

Let's do it equall for one campaign, and we will see what happen.

 

Ramm.

Edited by JG700_Rammjager
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I./JG62_Lord_Efe

I think we should consider adding... 

1) ... a timer for changing Side`s again because, I´ve seen Pilots joining LW´s Side, staying there for 5-10 minutes in the mission, commentating attack Plans and then for "balancing reasons" (at that time LW 15 to VVS 13) changing teams and scoring 4 AK in that mission!

 

2)... something like a security system for the official Teamspeak, because in the last couple of days it happened more then once, at some point VVS-Pilots enter TS channel of the biggest flying LW group staying their for 5 minutes without saying anything and then joining their TS channel again, and guess who appears over the Target 

 

3)... a Serverpassword, many guys are new to this Game, which is totally great, but their randomly joining Servers not knowing what that Servers    are about and "wasting" Planes. I´m not saying that I don`t want beginners on TAW, but they join and don't know anything about the Server and don`t even considered to check the Manuel, which is annoying everyone. I mean for Registration u give out your E-Mailadress anyway ...

 

@Inkoslav well most of the time you just get sniped, if not one try to save the plane and pilot by reaching friendly lines, because jump over VVS territory and you get captured or some of them will shoot you on the Chute (yes their some LW Pilots that do that aswell, and I disagree with that aswell).

 

But all in all it´s a great TAW Champaign with a lot of fun!

 

@Karthon will their be Harbour`s/Ports to attack on the Kuban map, maybe instead of the Trainstations ? and was`t it that in a Heinkel or a Ju 88 one could get more then 1 CM by a flight, when was that changed or did I just missed a Changelog?

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We are aware that pilot's limit is a problem. In previous campaigns there were situations where maps was ended during one or two days, now it's very hard to capture all the enemy cities.

 

In my opinion the pilots, planes, tanks, trucks limits are  by no means a problem. (1300 planes or 900 pilots is not a small number)

 

Those limits are the only Chance for VVS to win a map.  Without them the LW better ground attack possibilites especially in destroying depots, defence positions & airfields, better fighters and at least during my flying hours grater numbers will always make LW win.

 

On each map of this campaign the LW pushed the reds front line almost to the "Caucasus" ;)

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=LG=Leutnant_Artur

I think we should consider adding... 

1) ... a timer for changing Side`s again because, I´ve seen Pilots joining LW´s Side, staying there for 5-10 minutes in the mission, commentating attack Plans and then for "balancing reasons" (at that time LW 15 to VVS 13) changing teams and scoring 4 AK in that mission!

 

2)... something like a security system for the official Teamspeak, because in the last couple of days it happened more then once, at some point VVS-Pilots enter TS channel of the biggest flying LW group staying their for 5 minutes without saying anything and then joining their TS channel again, and guess who appears over the Target 

 

3)... a Serverpassword, many guys are new to this Game, which is totally great, but their randomly joining Servers not knowing what that Servers    are about and "wasting" Planes. I´m not saying that I don`t want beginners on TAW, but they join and don't know anything about the Server and don`t even considered to check the Manuel, which is annoying everyone. I mean for Registration u give out your E-Mailadress anyway ...

 

@Inkoslav well most of the time you just get sniped, if not one try to save the plane and pilot by reaching friendly lines, because jump over VVS territory and you get captured or some of them will shoot you on the Chute (yes their some LW Pilots that do that aswell, and I disagree with that aswell).

 

But all in all it´s a great TAW Champaign with a lot of fun!

 

@Karthon will their be Harbour`s/Ports to attack on the Kuban map, maybe instead of the Trainstations ? and was`t it that in a Heinkel or a Ju 88 one could get more then 1 CM by a flight, when was that changed or did I just missed a Changelog

AD1. I have noticed this behaviour. Changing side option will not be available in next campaign. 

 

AD2. This kind of actions will result in temporary ban so report it.

 

AD3. There will not be auto-registration in next campaign. We think this will help to solve the problem.

 

There will be harbours, ships on Kuban map.

Bombers can get more than one CM in one flight.

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SvAF/F16_radek

!S

 

I will say I was impressed with the Western Prime Time Red pilots who fought insane odds and still managed to pick some of us off.

 

Logging in to the server when it's 10:0 takes cojones, going a collecting a scalp at the same time... that's some Ivan Kozhedub level balls.

 

ivan_kozhedub_03.jpg

What a great things to say, will feel a little better next time I'm gang banged by blue :)

 

Out of curiosity is that an La-5f?

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I./JG62_Lord_Efe

AD1. I have noticed this behaviour. Changing side option will not be available in next campaign. 

 

AD2. This kind of actions will result in temporary ban so report it.

 

AD3. There will not be auto-registration in next campaign. We think this will help to solve the problem.

 

There will be harbours, ships on Kuban map.

Bombers can get more than one CM in one flight.

 

Thanks for your fast statement Artur!

Ad.2 Will report it next time I´ll see it. 

 

Cool Ports =) Btw whit be possible to add some "more" Targets to the Depot? I mean not like Buildings but like a couple of Trucks,Cars, Traincars or something like this? 

 

So how to get more then 1 CM

What went wrong here?: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=44395&name=[i./JG62]Lord_Efe 

just to few GK for a second CM? 

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=LG=Leutnant_Artur

Thanks for your fast statement Artur!

Ad.2 Will report it next time I´ll see it. 

 

Cool Ports =) Btw whit be possible to add some "more" Targets to the Depot? I mean not like Buildings but like a couple of Trucks,Cars, Traincars or something like this? 

 

So how to get more then 1 CM

What went wrong here?: http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=44395&name=[i./JG62]Lord_Efe 

just to few GK for a second CM? 

We'll think about more targets/vehicles in depot.

 

About CM. We all know CM rule - 1CM 15 min , 1CM 5 min (AK/GK).

Bombers: 1CM 15 min, 1CM 5 min (AK/GK) and another after 20 min and so one.

You have destroyed target at 16:43:47 and landed at 20:03:14 so you missed 33seconds to earn second CM :lol:

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Hello,

 

I have a problem, a the moment my nick LF_Isaac is Locked in the server only I can play with LF-isaac and my flies not shown in my profile, I don't Know how unlock my LF_Isaac a y can help me pls?

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Lord_Efe' timestamp='1506001976' post='513436'] AD1. I have noticed this behaviour. Changing side option will not be available in next campaign. 

 

 

It will bring more people from my squad to play as VVS next time I hope !

 

We already started a ''Kickstarter'' in our squad in giving VVS collector planes  :biggrin: !

Edited by 4./JG52_Manu653
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Operatsiya_Ivy

To be honest, VVS has an easier time winning the game for a couple of reason:

 

  • Their Tank Columns are better due to T-34s being a harder target
  • Their Aircraft line up is more versatile
  • They have generally more experienced Pilots
  • They have better Airfield protection

 

Therefor i can't be bothered to switch sides atm. 

 

On a different topic: Does anyone know when the next campaign starts? cant wait for it

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I'm not sure why people get so hung up on the number of pilots killed,

Surely killing all your opponents whether 900 or 9000 is still a legitimate way of winning a map (among others!)

The LW guys just need to fly clever towards the end of the map if they hold most of the ground, and not throw pilots and machines away!

A war of attrition with Russia was a war the Germans were never going to win!

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I'm not sure why people get so hung up on the number of pilots killed,

Surely killing all your opponents whether 900 or 9000 is still a legitimate way of winning a map (among others!)

The LW guys just need to fly clever towards the end of the map if they hold most of the ground, and not throw pilots and machines away!

A war of attrition with Russia was a war the Germans were never going to win!

 

Here's where the whole "historical at all costs" thing kind of goes off the rails... 

 

The sticking point is, and always will be, the fact that Germany has a higher chance of being captured when bailing/ditching behind enemy lines.  (Although it's much better than it was before)

 

This makes sense... but only on paper.  Surely, this home-field advantage should count for something right?

 

Except in that we also start with exactly the same number of pilots, planes, tanks, trucks... this isn't historical.

Red players use voice comms when their planes did not have radios.... ahistorical...

 

Every single LaGG after map whatever has 23/37 available... not historical... (the 23mm is a PK machine, too)

 

Every Stuka can take up 37mm guns from map 1 onward.... not historical...

 

Now we add in the fact that # of pilots is the deciding factor of every map... (Set trucks to 1000 limit and watch what happens, btw) and people cry when their chutes get shot.  Their virtual pilot-man gets virtually killed (after he virtually killed an entire virtual convoy of virtual men :P)

 

Give each player limited lives, from their own pool, and watch how the game changes.

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I've never been under any illusion that TAW is "historical at all costs", 

 

After all the F4 and Ju88 were the most numerous LW planes at Moscow in 41, and the F4 doesn't make a showing for two maps and the 88 the first!

 

I think in all probability there was a better chance of being captured if you were "playing away", so that makes sense. i've never seen any accounts of locals hiding LW pilots, in fact quite the opposite!

 

Voice comms would be a difficult one to sort out...... maybe only LW should get 'spotter/contact messages' to simulate radio comms?

 

And i would love it to be 100% historically accurate, limited lives would suit me fine to, in fact when a pilot is killed i think he should have all his points and planes reset to zero and not be able to rejoin until the next map (as he's dead!!)

 

We can live in hope hey!  ;)

Edited by JG5_Schuck
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I'm not sure why people get so hung up on the number of pilots killed,

Surely killing all your opponents whether 900 or 9000 is still a legitimate way of winning a map (among others!)

The LW guys just need to fly clever towards the end of the map if they hold most of the ground, and not throw pilots and machines away!

A war of attrition with Russia was a war the Germans were never going to win!

 

the team that loses the most pilots loses the battle. Not tanks or trucks or territory. When you think about it that way, it sort of makes ground attack (which is very dangerous because of the elite AAA) pointless because:

1. doesn't influence the enemy pilot #'s

2. you're at greater risk of losing yours through enemy fighters and/or AAA (you will not be able to defend yourself against most fighters)

 

So, focus on killing their pilots and you win the map. Its not all about winning I know, but when you and everyone tries their damnedest to win a map through ground attack and territory and still lose (like the last map), you realise its a pointless adventure. Plus bailing out over enemy territory is almost certain to make you a POW. 

 

I'm really enjoying TAW - i wish every server was like this. But its good to also know how things work. 

 

Am looking forward to Kuban. I haven't really played on it because I've been so caught up with TAW. But man, it will be fun doing ship attacks, etc. Question though, will the Kuban map have moving ships or just stationary?

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AD1. I have noticed this behaviour. Changing side option will not be available in next campaign. 

 

AD2. This kind of actions will result in temporary ban so report it.

 

AD3. There will not be auto-registration in next campaign. We think this will help to solve the problem.

 

There will be harbours, ships on Kuban map.

Bombers can get more than one CM in one flight.

 

 

Manu and I have two accounts and I think he was referring to us. First of all, we were not even in TS with any axis guys, we were actually on our own TS (SACG TS3). Second of all, we were only switching sides to help balance the mission which was 40x13 not 14x13 like he said. The mission only started to get balanced long after we were already in our second sortie. We did not know an individual pilot can no longer have two accounts in the campaign that's why we made two of them. Like I said, we were only trying to help cause we do sympathize with the side with less pilots and also understand how frustrating it must be to fly a mission with no opposition. Apparently, people prefer that way for some reason ... Honestly, we dont need to spy on anyones TS in order to shoot them down and thats definitely not how we like to play. Please feel free to delete my red team account as I will no longer be using it and will not try to balance the numbers anymore ... my apologies to those affected.

 

Cheers

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curiousGamblerr

Riksen, not trying to start shit after our recent tiff, but if there are all these discrepancies with your situation, maybe he wasn't talking about you guys? And I think Artur was saying two accounts will be disallowed next campaign- seems you're fine to continue using both for the duration of this one. I know everyone appreciates someone willing to balance sides. In any case, while I don't know you, I do know Manu and know he would never spy on teamspeak in a million years so if this claim is referring to you guys we can all agree it is incorrect.

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I've never been under any illusion that TAW is "historical at all costs", 

 

After all the F4 and Ju88 were the most numerous LW planes at Moscow in 41, and the F4 doesn't make a showing for two maps and the 88 the first!

 

I think in all probability there was a better chance of being captured if you were "playing away", so that makes sense. i've never seen any accounts of locals hiding LW pilots, in fact quite the opposite!

 

Voice comms would be a difficult one to sort out...... maybe only LW should get 'spotter/contact messages' to simulate radio comms?

 

And i would love it to be 100% historically accurate, limited lives would suit me fine to, in fact when a pilot is killed i think he should have all his points and planes reset to zero and not be able to rejoin until the next map (as he's dead!!)

 

We can live in hope hey!  ;)

Seriously? Killed then kicked off the map? Reset all my effort to zero? Hmmmm not a lot of incentive to do anything risky. Which ... pretty much defines the core of the game.But, I guess that's like hardcore mode in WOW. But at least in WOW you can control your characters fate better.  I suppose I could be spending the intermission time on WOL between maps. I only played TAW a couple times but it sure seems riskier all way around.  In addition to no radios for the Russians, can we un-train their flying abilities for the first maps and enforce bad tactical advice to pilots from commanders? Or politically based stupid decisions for the LW? How about field reliability of equipment, mechanical breakdowns and supply problems. There's got to be a better way to balance a game than a punitive based system. Lets face it, if the measurement of my contribution to the team is going to be 'costing of pilots'. The best I can do is not play. No lives lost. I'm typically a ground pounder, I get it from below, in frount, up top and behind. Or I could wait until the game is unbalanced and then hop on. It seems only logical that chute killing becomes even more a important tool, because killing of pilots is a way to win. And if we're not playing to win, why are we keeping score?

Very interesting though. Coming up with a game model that is fun, exciting, and reasonably historical would actually be a serious challenge in analysis. Then comparing that to real time data... outcomes.... fascinating  Captain.

Edited by Tailwheelbrownbear
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Riksen, not trying to start shit after our recent tiff, but if there are all these discrepancies with your situation, maybe he wasn't talking about you guys? And I think Artur was saying two accounts will be disallowed next campaign- seems you're fine to continue using both for the duration of this one. I know everyone appreciates someone willing to balance sides. In any case, while I don't know you, I do know Manu and know he would never spy on teamspeak in a million years so if this claim is referring to you guys we can all agree it is incorrect.

Ya they need to come up with an in game comms , and a way for chat to only go to friendly channel or no chat at all. Did the yak have messaging?

Oh... and also implement radio quality / availability based on real life. That would be something people would notice right quicko.

Ooohh.. I don't know.... Would be interesting.. or...

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SvAF/F16_radek

Last I heard there were more registered blue pilots than there were red. I find that a simple and likely reason for blue running out of pilots quicker. Skill level, aa effectiveness, planesets and so on would compared to this be fine tuning. Increasing maximum pilots with another 4-500 would again make it worthwile to conquer territory for a win. Though I'm not sure why pilot numbers are such a big issue this round of Taw when it hasn't been before.

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I've never been under any illusion that TAW is "historical at all costs", 

 

After all the F4 and Ju88 were the most numerous LW planes at Moscow in 41, and the F4 doesn't make a showing for two maps and the 88 the first!

 

I think in all probability there was a better chance of being captured if you were "playing away", so that makes sense. i've never seen any accounts of locals hiding LW pilots, in fact quite the opposite!

 

Voice comms would be a difficult one to sort out...... maybe only LW should get 'spotter/contact messages' to simulate radio comms?

 

And i would love it to be 100% historically accurate, limited lives would suit me fine to, in fact when a pilot is killed i think he should have all his points and planes reset to zero and not be able to rejoin until the next map (as he's dead!!)

 

We can live in hope hey!  ;)

 

Limited lives would be intriguing . . . If you were only allowed 1 life per map or even mission you would do your best to look after him. It could also help at peak times. If your pilot dies, that's you out until mission rotates, so someone else can log in and have a go.

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Though I'm not sure why pilot numbers are such a big issue this round of Taw when it hasn't been before.

 

This campaign has without a doubt been it's most played and active one yet. More pilots. More deaths. 

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I like the idea of limited life on a map for multiple purposes but the worst drawback is that it will lower the number of player in the server during the middle and end of the mission. It can be good in some ways but during western time it will empty the server fast.

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