Tactical Air War

[13/JG5_Ehrler]

Hello guys,

 

FYI:

I had a bug today in mission #177. After i destroyed a Lagg near Zhutovo i passed the enemy ground units and landed safe at Zhutovo airport, but the stats shows me as "ditched" not as landed. This cant be right. My 109 was absolutly intact and im pretty sure that im landed at Zhutovo airport (there isnt any other airport).

 

Regards,

 

Ehrler

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Hello guys,

 

FYI:

I had a bug today in mission #177. After i destroyed a Lagg near Zhutovo i passed the enemy ground units and landed safe at Zhutovo airport, but the stats shows me as "ditched" not as landed. This cant be right. My 109 was absolutly intact and im pretty sure that im landed at Zhutovo airport (there isnt any other airport).

 

Regards,

 

Ehrler

Was the airfield closed?

 

Edit: Yes it was. You can't land at closed Airfields anymore. Its no bug.

Edited September 14, 2017 by DerSheriff

[Pharoah]

There are easy Rules:

1:if u allone go not attack

2:join Teamspeak TAW and fly as Group

3:if u want stay allone, have a look on Damagd on Citys and Airfields and fly suply

 

This will increase your Pilots Deaths and Plane lose

 

Good advice. Unfortunately most of the time I fly, TS is empty (or the english channel anyway). I do use chat when i can to request fighter support. Better than nothing i guess.

[13/JG5_Ehrler]

Thank you Sheriff. I have overlooked this change 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Ehrler

[=PGT13=Vitriol]

Good afternoon! I ask admin to delete all my logins, I can not enter the server, the login that I need.

 

***

Guten Tag! Ich bitte darum, alle meine Logins zu löschen, ich kann nicht den Server eingeben, die Anmeldung, die ich brauche.

=****=Vitriol

 

....or save one =PGT13=Vitriol

Edited September 15, 2017 by =PGT13=Vitriol

[Haza]

Kathon,

 

Whilst attacking a target in a JU88 with 4 X BF110s we noticed that the AAA was very accurate.  However, cloud base was about 2500m with snow and it was very overcast, therefore, are you able to reduce the effectiveness of the AAA to take into account the weather conditions, or is  the AAA just the same no matter what the weather? 

 

Regards

 

PS  Loved the snow by the way!!

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Hi, can the Mission Possibilites for Ju-52 be increased? 

 

[I./JG68_Sperber]

Server are crashed ? cant joint ;(

[216th_Jordan]

Server are crashed ? cant joint ;(

 

same here.

[[TWB]80hd]

Server are crashed ? cant joint ;(

 

I guess that's one way to stop the Axis pilot hemorrhaging hahah

[StG77_Kondor]

Hi, can the Mission Possibilites for Ju-52 be increased? 

 

 

This would be awesome! Especially in the cases where a tank column is surrounded. 

[curiousGamblerr]

Hey TAW team, a question about a sortie and counting air kills.

 

Last night I was escorting some bombers and drove off two enemy fighters. The first flew away and I let him go, the second was finished off by another fighter. My question is about the first one.

 

Here is the sortie http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32074&name=19//curiousGamblerr

And here is the Mig's sortie: http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=32088&name=Iceworm

 

So I damaged him, and then he ditched, but no kill. I'm not complaining, just curious why- did I not damage him enough? Was the time between last damage and ditch too large (looks like about 6 minutes)?

 

I checked the manual but didn't find any details on this so I was hoping you could tell me more about how kills are determined.

 

Thanks! 

[Guest deleted@83466]

My Mig was landed, engine still running, wheels down, at an unused airfield (whatever the one in 2124-1 is called).  It was definitely an "emergency" landing, and the aircraft would have been down for repair, but it was not shot down.   It counts against me as a "ditched" aircraft of course, but I wouldn't expect to get credit for a kill in this situation.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Iceworm

[WIS-Redcoat]

Do you get points by flying resupply missions with the Ju52?

[curiousGamblerr]

My Mig was landed, engine still running, wheels down, at an unused airfield (whatever the one in 2124-1 is called). It was definitely an "emergency" landing, and the aircraft would have been down for repair, but it was not shot down. It counts against me as a "ditched" aircraft of course, but I wouldn't expect to get credit for a kill in this situation.

Sure, that makes perfect sense to me.

 

I'm just trying to understand TAW's logic in general. If your engine had died quickly after we disengaged, and you went down on your belly in a field it would still say Ditched, and I think it would be fair to say I shot you down. Or more clear cut, if we were dogfighting on the deck and I damaged you and you crashed right in front of me, still Ditched in the logs and obviously a kill for me (or it should be).

 

So how does TAW tell the difference? Is is the time between last damage and the Ditch? Or the fact that your plane was never completely destroyed? Probably the latter actually...

 

Not arguing this particular situation should be a kill, especially after hearing your end of it, but curious about how the distinction is made in the server script.

Edited September 15, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[[TWB]80hd]

Sure, that makes perfect sense to me.

 

I'm just trying to understand TAW's logic in general. If your engine had died quickly after we disengaged, and you went down on your belly in a field it would still say Ditched, and I think it would be fair to say I shot you down. Or more clear cut, if we were dogfighting on the deck and I damaged you and you crashed right in front of me, still Ditched in the logs and obviously a kill for me (or it should be).

 

So how does TAW tell the difference? Is is the time between last damage and the Ditch? Or the fact that your plane was never completely destroyed? Probably the latter actually...

 

Not arguing this particular situation should be a kill, especially after hearing your end of it, but curious about how the distinction is made in the server script.

 

His plane was still operational (never catastrophically damaged), but still has to be carted back to a friendly base. 

 

That's the distinction, the person that deals catastrophic damage OR the last person to hit the plane before the pilot catastrophically damages it gets the kill, elsewise there is no kill.

 

I would imagine they only use "Ditched" in this case because there is no way to put in another disposition, but I would say this should be labeled "Battlefield Landing" (Or something similar) rather than a ditch.

Edited September 15, 2017 by [TWB]80hd

[curiousGamblerr]

Got it.

 

So I obviously should have chased you down and finished you off Iceworm  alas I had bombers to protect haha

[Guest deleted@83466]

I think it's pretty much the same criteria in such a case as you would see on WoL, or for that matter, in Rise of Flight.  If you've damaged me, and my engine dies as a result of that damage, or if I run out of fuel, or if I prang my prop on landing, the plane is counted as lost, and the guy gets credit.  I'm not sure if there is a time limit in BoX.  I'm also not so sure what happens when your engine dies and you accomplish a dead stick landing at your home field...I've done this many times on WoL, and it notifies me in game that so and so shot me down, but the parser shows me as landed and I don't know if the other guy got credit in the parser or not. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Iceworm

[curiousGamblerr]

I think it's pretty much the same criteria in such a case as you would see on WoL, or for that matter, in Rise of Flight. If you've damaged me, and my engine dies as a result of that damage, or if I run out of fuel, or if I prang my prop on landing, the plane is counted as lost, and the guy gets credit. I'm not sure if there is a time limit in BoX. I'm also not so sure what happens when your engine dies and you accomplish a dead stick landing at your home field...I've done this many times on WoL, and it notifies me in game that so and so shot me down, but the parser shows me as landed and I don't know if the other guy got credit in the parser or not.

Yeah it often feels like a crapshoot, which is why I asked.

I haven't checked my WoL stats in months because who cares, but the game itself gives kills pretty easily- I got a kill for you for example, but obviously that's totally silly as we've discussed.

[JG4_dingsda]

Do you get points by flying resupply missions with the Ju52?

You get 15 for the landing and a CM if it was a valid supply mission.

[JG1_Pragr]

I experienced an issue regarding Heinkel. I was disco from the server in all three last missions. I always got the message that my connection to master server was lost. But it has never happened to me on any other sortie with Ju88/Ju52. The disco always happened when I was on the mission with Heinkel and 2xSC1000. On first sortie I took the Heinkel which was marked as locked but there were unlimited number of planes (this is available on every AF) so I thought I selected wrong one. In other two sorties I took Heinkel from the spawn which was marked with specific number of plane available on AF. But again I was disco in both cases. Since it happened to me three times I am about to think this is not coincidence. 

 

Do you have any idea what I do wrong?

 

PS: I do not take off from the first line AFs. I spawn on the second line AF usually. Are they still considered as "front-line" fields?

 

Thanks for help.

[HenHawk]

I experienced an issue regarding Heinkel. I was disco from the server in all three last missions. I always got the message that my connection to master server was lost. But it has never happened to me on any other sortie with Ju88/Ju52. The disco always happened when I was on the mission with Heinkel and 2xSC1000. On first sortie I took the Heinkel which was marked as locked but there were unlimited number of planes (this is available on every AF) so I thought I selected wrong one. In other two sorties I took Heinkel from the spawn which was marked with specific number of plane available on AF. But again I was disco in both cases. Since it happened to me three times I am about to think this is not coincidence.

 

Do you have any idea what I do wrong?

 

PS: I do not take off from the first line AFs. I spawn on the second line AF usually. Are they still considered as "front-line" fields?

 

Thanks for help.

Locked in the aircraft spawn screen just means certain mods are not open for it (i.e. - 1k SC bombs). For the disco part, are you clicking "leave server"? After you land on a friendly/solid colored airfield, you have to click end mission and wait for the countdown timer to reach zero.

[JG1_Pragr]

Not the point. I was exited from the server during the climb to the target. The time veries between 15 and 20 minutes. The only thing which stays the same is the He 111 and two SC1000.

Edited September 16, 2017 by I./JG1_Pragr

[CountBreznak]

hey guys. I shot at a 111 while doing supply missions. On the site it says the he111 got shot down by me, but it is not counted as a kill. why is that? is that correct? not complaining, just curious

 

http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=34787&name=CountBreznak

http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=34752&name=I./ZG15_Karl_Modeller

[JG1_Pragr]

Just let throw my two cents into the previous discussion.

 

Player numbers:

This issue seems to be the map #1 problem mostly. According to the TWB population stats the average number of player in last 7 days is almost perfectly even with non-significant advantage on VVS side (15.6 Axis vs 15.71 Allies) which is below statistical error. The 14 days average is largely affected by the huge imbalance on map #1. It seems that too many VVS pilots consider I-16 vs 109E-7 for uneven/unfair match. Taking this into account leads me to the opinion that introducing of 109F-2 for map #1 would make the situation far worse.

The idea of forcing people to switch side is crazy and dangerous at the same time. With 15 years experience of online flying under my belt I expect that three out of four pilots would leave the server rather then they should fly for side/plane set they don't want. And because the uneven number of players is non-existent (in 24 hour period) such restrictive actions are off the table. Additionally, there is a big difference between the CAS/anti-tank capabilities of both sides. Due to the "fantasy" anti-armor capabilities of VYa canon, single Il-2 is able to make as much damage to the tank column (and armor units particularly) like several German planes. More sorties mean more time within the combat area and thus higher risk you lost your plane/pilot. And since the TAW is strictly focusing on the destruction of these columns it offers huge advantage to the VVS. How would you guys compensate this if the numbers would be even?

 

Now to the campaign's general arrangement:

I know that the LW should and have advantage in medium bombers. But there is no way how to win the campaign through this. In theory we can render Russian AFs unusable but that's not the case. There are so many AFs that closing one or two of them means almost nothing. Moreover, only specific AFs can be destroyed. That usually means one to three AFs are marked as target and thus they can be attacked. The others are perfectly save. Additionally there is an issue in this area. While IRL any AF operation would be hampered way more by the impact of twenty 50 kg bombs than by two big 1 000 kg bombs the TAW works exactly the opposite. AF targets are designed so that few big bombs are always way better solution than lots of smaller ones. Big bombs should be used against relatively small but fortified target such as bunkers, fortifications etc. Small (50 and 100 kg) bombs should be always better for airfields, storage, dumps etc. But I have no idea whether this can be made within the game framework.

 

The solution I am thinking about is that we could use the current depot targets as one of victory conditions. Lets say the depot represents the amount of fuel/ammo/spare parts. Each side has like 10 000 tons of these sources available at the beginning of each map. Each depot represents e.g. 1 000 tons of supply. If destroyed this amount of resource is removed from the side storage. When the amount of resources reaches  0 tons, map is over.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

1. I-16 vs 109E-7 is a perfect Matchup. The two are balanced perfectly. So are Il-2-41 and 110E. The Problem is in the People who will only ever fly the BEST Aircraft around. And since the early stuff isn't the bestestestestest stuff in the game they simply won't play. 

 

2. The VYa 23's 23x152 is an enormously powerful cartridge, basically a necked down 30mm. However, it was also highly uncommon in Barbarossa. 

However, in return the Ju-87 would have to loose the 37mm. 

 

And the Il-2 still needs to hit from the Sides and above on Sdkfz. 161,141 and 142. The German Tanks modelled ingame simply were lacking in Side and Rear Armor. It's not Magic. 

 

 

 

I agree that Supplies are an extremely important Factor in Warfare. They are the most crucial Bottleneck of all operations. 

I think there should be more possibilites for 52s to support German Positions with Supply Drops, more Supply Columns and Trains who, if attacked, would bring Offensives to a Grinding Halt. 

[MeoW.Scharfi]

1. I-16 vs 109E-7 is a perfect Matchup. The two are balanced perfectly. So are Il-2-41 and 110E. The Problem is in the People who will only ever fly the BEST Aircraft around. And since the early stuff isn't the bestestestestest stuff in the game they simply won't play. 

 

I love the E7,MC202 vs I16, P40 matchup. I enjoy flying the first map of TAW the most.

Edited September 16, 2017 by MeoW.Scharfi

[JG1_Pragr]

I agree with you Klaus almost to the point.

 

Just one thing about the ingame VYa performance. You don't need to hit German tanks from side. I tested it few weeks ago and I was able to kill StuGIII (the hardest target to kill, the IIID version in game was better armored than almost all versions of PzIV) in single strafing run attacking it 45 degree front. Under these circumstances the Stug's armor IS beyond the penetration capabilities of VYa gun in real world. Not in the game.

 

Anyway to be absolutely fair, I consider whole anti-armor part of this simulation as the very "gamey". Even the the Bk 3.7 are far to much effective than they should be. But they limited the performance and usability of Ju87 enough to be widely spread. VYa are on the other hand totally different story. 

[[TWB]80hd]

By removing the ability to capture airfields with transports, and making it to where it requires tanks to do so, it's really going to make it hardcore mode for Axis to ever hope to win.

 

Axis is going to lose the attrition game every time, and this change is going to cause each map to drag on with no chance of making tactical moves... you just have to hope tanks spawn and then hope you retain numbers that care to fly whatever the distance is, map after map, to keep them alive. 

 

With Soviets flying from close fields, with bombs, rockets, and 23mm AP, a handful of semi-competent pilots can ruin a column in short order.  Even with the 61-K insta-gib on fast moving fighters, we shut down 3.5 airfields last night, and it did nothing.

 

Still having a great time flying TAW, just not really seeing any realistic path to victory for Axis at this point. 

[StG77_Kondor]

By removing the ability to capture airfields with transports, and making it to where it requires tanks to do so, it's really going to make it hardcore mode for Axis to ever hope to win.

 

Axis is going to lose the attrition game every time, and this change is going to cause each map to drag on with no chance of making tactical moves... you just have to hope tanks spawn and then hope you retain numbers that care to fly whatever the distance is, map after map, to keep them alive. 

 

With Soviets flying from close fields, with bombs, rockets, and 23mm AP, a handful of semi-competent pilots can ruin a column in short order.  Even with the 61-K insta-gib on fast moving fighters, we shut down 3.5 airfields last night, and it did nothing.

 

Still having a great time flying TAW, just not really seeing any realistic path to victory for Axis at this point. 

 

This is what has happened every map except for Map #1 - the only map blue won. The front line moves, but neither side can really get to the 'second level'. Current Map #4 is the best example. 

 

For blue to win a map everything has to go it's way. But with higher pilot/plane/tank losses (especially now that the Il-2s have the VYa) it's going to keep being a steep uphill battle for blue. 

 

I still love this server don't get me wrong. 95% of my BoS time is spent on it. I'm just treating it as a personal DiD campaign with no expectation that the actual 'war' will be competitive. 

[JG1_Pragr]

I would add one another feature which limited the usage of tactical bomber. It's weather. While the tank column attack is never hampered by weather the effectiveness of level bombers is restricted by solid overcast (the low level was between 2.3 and 2.7 this campaign, according my experience). Try to bomb the AF or depot from such altitude and you find it's one way ride. So level bombing is impossible under solid overcast. And it's just a bit better if there are heavy clouds.

 

Anyway, I still enjoy the server. Even though I know that I don't help my side by flying Heinkel/Junkers 88 much. 

[AKA_Relent]

By removing the ability to capture airfields with transports, and making it to where it requires tanks to do so, it's really going to make it hardcore mode for Axis to ever hope to win.

 

Axis is going to lose the attrition game every time, and this change is going to cause each map to drag on with no chance of making tactical moves... you just have to hope tanks spawn and then hope you retain numbers that care to fly whatever the distance is, map after map, to keep them alive.

 

With Soviets flying from close fields, with bombs, rockets, and 23mm AP, a handful of semi-competent pilots can ruin a column in short order. Even with the 61-K insta-gib on fast moving fighters, we shut down 3.5 airfields last night, and it did nothing.

 

Still having a great time flying TAW, just not really seeing any realistic path to victory for Axis at this point.

With respect, not sure I quite get the argument here, regarding how the current rules make it harder for one side to win (in your case you are saying it's harder for the German side).

 

Both sides lost the ability to land transports at closed enemy airfields (I can't recall if the airfield had to be 100% damaged?) to try and capture them, not just one side.

 

If you're talking about the ability of the German side to drop paratroopers near a closed enemy base (assuming it has to be heavily damaged), that is still available according to the rule updates earlier in this forum, which is obviously not available to the Russian side.

 

Why will the German side always lose the attrition game every time? Both sides have the same maximum aircraft/pilot losses to end a map instantly.

 

Both sides typically have opportunities to fly from close airfields (from enemy tanks), depending how far the tanks have advanced from mission to mission, not just one side . As the tanks get within so many Km (~15?), the target airfield is closed, and the defenders have to fly farther to attack them.

 

The aircraft ground attack capabilities are certainly different on each side. But there is still a lot of balance if you look at the inventory collectively.

 

- The IL2 is a great anti-tank platform, but it's relatively slow, and needs to attack individual targets one at a time with few or light bombs, rockets and guns - so it needs to stay in the target area for a relatively long time, making it vulnerable to attack by AAA or fighters.

 

- The Pe-2 is a great hit and run bomber, but it's bombload is not that great, so it takes repeated attacks which takes time

 

- The bombload of Russian fighters is pretty light, and any rockets carried are usually of the lighter variety which are difficult to aim. The lendlease P-40 is the lone exception (re bombload), although before the last major update no one flew it for obvious reasons .

 

- The Ju-88 can carry a much larger bomb load than the Pe-2, and with one pass can unload a string of bombs that can devastate a column

 

- The 110 can carry a bombload almost as heavy as the Pe-2, plus it has much more forward MG/cannon firepower

 

- The Ju-87 is allowed to carry the 37mm pods fairly early in the campaign I believe, so it can be a good anti tank platform as well, albeit with limited rounds. It is just as vulnerable as the IL2 of course, as it needs to loiter when attacking tanks.

 

- The 109s can carry a heavier bomb than any of the Russian aircraft (except the lendlease P-40).

 

- For hitting enemy supply/factory depots, the German side has a huge advantage, with the heavy bombload of the He-111 and Ju-88 compared to the Pe-2.

[JG1_Pragr]

...

There are so many errors that it's hard to find where I should start. 

 

 

 

Why will the German side always lose the attrition game every time? Both sides have the same maximum aircraft/pilot losses to end a map instantly.

There could be several reasons. One of these is that LW needs several sorties to achieve the same damage single Il-2 can. That multiply the amount of time and the risk you loose the plane/pilot. Thus it makes the attrition war harder for LW. Why I talk about the Il-2 mostly? Because TAW is strictly oriented on tank column destruction/survival. Additionally, the most common fighter on German list (the 109) has the weakest structure (according to the game developers) because it is the only single spar wing fighter available in game.

 

 

 

The IL2 is a great anti-tank platform, but it's relatively slow, and needs to attack individual targets one at a time with few or light bombs, rockets and guns - so it needs to stay in the target area for a relatively long time, making it vulnerable to attack by AAA or fighters.

 Once again, if you consider Il-2 as slow and vulnerable than Ju87 (its counterpart) is even in the worse situation. The best anti-tank plane on LW side is surprisingly Bf-109 with its 4xSC loadout. But you need tons of experience to be able to kill the tank with 50kg bomb. Btw, you can achieve the same with Soviet small bombs.

 

 

 

The Ju-87 is allowed to carry the 37mm pods fairly early in the campaign I believe, so it can be a good anti tank platform as well, albeit with limited rounds. It is just as vulnerable as the IL2 of course, as it needs to loiter when attacking tanks.

yes it can. But with Bk 3.7 the top speed is around 270 km/h (tell me now something about "slow" Il-2). And Bks are still less effective against Soviet tanks than VYa against German armor.

 

 

 

The 109s can carry a heavier bomb than any of the Russian aircraft (except the lendlease P-40).

The bombload of Russian fighters is pretty light, and any rockets carried are usually of the lighter variety which are difficult to aim. The lendlease P-40 is the lone exception (re bombload), although before the last major update no one flew it for obvious reasons 

It can but it doesn't affect the anti-tank capability. VVS fighters can load 100 kg bomb under each wing if I'm right. Only 190 with its SC500 option offers real advantage (against "soft" targets not vs tanks).

 

 

 

For hitting enemy supply/factory depots, the German side has a huge advantage, with the heavy bombload of the He-111 and Ju-88 compared to the Pe-2.

The Pe-2 is a great hit and run bomber, but it's bombload is not that great, so it takes repeated attacks which takes time

This is largely true. Except that these target should be more vulnerable by numerous small bombs than few big ones irl. But not in game. Anyway Heinkels and Junkers 88 hold the edge here. Maybe not so significant since Peshka is still faster than both German bombers but the edge is still there.

 

About the hit and run. The speed of Pe-2 has another bonus. It has higher ratio of survival. What I'm talking about is that if you loose your bomber there is no attack anyway.

 

I don't say the situation is absolutely useless. I just try to explain why I think there is the always the same result of every TAW campaign i.e. Soviet win every time when the numbers are even at least in general.

Edited September 16, 2017 by I./JG1_Pragr

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Germans whoop ass in 1941, struggle in 1942 and get their ass handed to them in 1943? Now where have I seen this before...

 

Don't blame the server for the Luftwaffe's lack of modern and proper tactical aircraft.

Edited September 16, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

[FTC_Riksen]

Germans whoop ass in 1941, struggle in 1942 and get their ass handed to them in 1943? Now where have I seen this before...

Don't blame the server for the Luftwaffe's lack of modern and proper tactical aircraft.

At least that is historical lol Edited September 16, 2017 by 4./JG52_Riksen

[StG77_Kondor]

Don't blame the server for the Luftwaffe's lack of modern and proper tactical aircraft.

 

Never blamed the server. More of how the game models the VYa. I don't think anyone is arguing that the Il-2 isn't the superior CAS plane. I just wonder if the VYa was as good as it is in the game, then every single Il-2 pilot in the war was an awful shot. I mean, how did the Germans ever even make it through the first 30 minutes at Kursk? Or break out of Cherkassy? Or recapture Kharkov? Because we all know Panzer divisional records and personal accounts are flooded with how many tanks they lost thanks to those 23mms. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by StG77_Kondor

[AKA_Relent]

There are so many errors that it's hard to find where I should start. 

 

Well, if you're going to call me out, you could start by showing me where I made any errors - what you've said does nothing to justify this statement.

 

 

 

 

Quote:     Why will the German side always lose the attrition game every time? Both sides have the same maximum aircraft/pilot losses to end a map instantly. End Quote

 

There could be several reasons. One of these is that LW needs several sorties to achieve the same damage single Il-2 can. That multiply the amount of time and the risk you loose the plane/pilot. Thus it makes the attrition war harder for LW. Why I talk about the Il-2 mostly? Because TAW is strictly oriented on tank column destruction/survival. Additionally, the most common fighter on German list (the 109) has the weakest structure (according to the game developers) because it is the only single spar wing fighter available in game.  

 

The question was more rhetorical - what you say may be true, but it is also subjective to a degree.  I beg to differ on the "single IL-2" comment - this, like a lot of things is totally dependent on skill, which varies widely.  I consider myself fairly proficient at ground attack, but even with the IL2 and the 23mm AP rounds, it's not a cakewalk by any means.  For the light tanks like the pz38t, sure, the 23mm can kill it with fairly short bursts, but it's got thin armor, so I would think that's no surprise.  Once you move up to the PzIII/IV or Sturm's it takes quite a long burst or bursts to kill it in my experience.  Even with a decent dive angle, you also have to consider convergence - often you're only hitting with the rounds from one gun for part of the pass.  Sure, you can kill these tanks, but in my experience I've had to use a whole lot of 23mm ammo per tank.  However, I do agree that the IL-2 is the best tactical anti-tank platform in BoX, that's what it was designed for - but wasn't that the case historically anyway?

 

As for the 109, any single engine fighter attacking tank columns that still have AAA is doing so at a high risk - regardless of  wing structure, any of them on either side will go down fairly quickly with a few MG/cannon hits to the engine or oil/coolant radiators, or 20/37mm shells exploding on the wing/fuselage.

 

 

Quote:     The IL2 is a great anti-tank platform, but it's relatively slow, and needs to attack individual targets one at a time with few or light bombs, rockets and guns - so it needs to stay in the target area for a relatively long time, making it vulnerable to attack by AAA or fighters.  End Quote

 

Once again, if you consider Il-2 as slow and vulnerable than Ju87 (its counterpart) is even in the worse situation. The best anti-tank plane on LW side is surprisingly Bf-109 with its 4xSC loadout. But you need tons of experience to be able to kill the tank with 50kg bomb. Btw, you can achieve the same with Soviet small bombs.

 

I never compared the IL2's speed to the Ju87's, you did. I said it's relatively slow - when compared to fighters it would need to try and get away from, I suspect most/all pilots who've flown the IL2 in BoX would agree with me .  Other than that, if you say the best German anti-tank plane is the 109, I would venture to say its being used incorrectly .

 

 

 

 

Quote:     The Ju-87 is allowed to carry the 37mm pods fairly early in the campaign I believe, so it can be a good anti tank platform as well, albeit with limited rounds. It is just as vulnerable as the IL2 of course, as it needs to loiter when attacking tanks. End Quote

 

yes it can. But with Bk 3.7 the top speed is around 270 km/h (tell me now something about "slow" Il-2). And Bks are still less effective against Soviet tanks than VYa against German armor.

 

Once again, putting words in my mouth.  I only mentioned the 37mm pods, has limited rounds and that it needs to loiter when attacking tanks - is this an error?

 

 

 

 

Quote:     The 109s can carry a heavier bomb than any of the Russian aircraft (except the lendlease P-40). The bombload of Russian fighters is pretty light, and any rockets carried are usually of the lighter variety which are difficult to aim. The lendlease P-40 is the lone exception (re bombload), although before the last major update no one flew it for obvious reasons.  End Quote

 

It can but it doesn't affect the anti-tank capability. VVS fighters can load 100 kg bomb under each wing if I'm right. Only 190 with its SC500 option offers real advantage (against "soft" targets not vs tanks).

 

 

Once again, putting words in my mouth.  I was only mentioning the air-to-ground capability, not necessarily the effectiveness of hitting tanks with fighters.  A heavier single or more smaller bombs could potentially make a difference somewhere, vs trucks or AAA vehicles that accompany tanks, for example.  The 109's have no bomb loadout restrictions based on the TAW Manual page.  They should therefore be able to carry 4x50kg or 1x250kg, vs what the Russian aircraft can carry (not the P-40, which I mentioned), which is 2x50kg or 2x100kg - is this an error?

 

 

 

 

Quote:     For hitting enemy supply/factory depots, the German side has a huge advantage, with the heavy bombload of the He-111 and Ju-88 compared to the Pe-2. End Quote

 

Quote:     The Pe-2 is a great hit and run bomber, but it's bombload is not that great, so it takes repeated attacks which takes time. End Quote

 

This is largely true. Except that these target should be more vulnerable by numerous small bombs than few big ones irl. But not in game. Anyway Heinkels and Junkers 88 hold the edge here. Maybe not so significant since Peshka is still faster than both German bombers but the edge is still there.   About the hit and run. The speed of Pe-2 has another bonus. It has higher ratio of survival. What I'm talking about is that if you loose your bomber there is no attack anyway.   I don't say the situation is absolutely useless. I just try to explain why I think there is the always the same result of every TAW campaign i.e. Soviet win every time when the numbers are even at least in general.

 

 

Nice to see you gave me some credit .  I can't speak to the effectiveness of the bombs, just stating that the 111/88 have an advantage over the Pe-2 in bombload - is this an error?

Edited September 16, 2017 by AKA_Relent

[Shibbyland]

Hi All,

 

Great server, love playing on it but I'm having one issue. Despite getting ground kills and landing safely none of my experience is being credited to my account so I'm not able to use additional aircraft types. Can you please tell me why I am not getting any experience?

 

Also, when will I know when I can change to German side?

 

Thanks

[AKA_Relent]

Hi All,

 

Great server, love playing on it but I'm having one issue. Despite getting ground kills and landing safely none of my experience is being credited to my account so I'm not able to use additional aircraft types. Can you please tell me why I am not getting any experience?

 

Also, when will I know when I can change to German side?

 

Thanks

 

Just looked at your profile: http://taw.stg2.de/stats.php?search_name=shibbyland

 

It shows you with 1 ground kill, so it's registering the sortie results.  I believe if you get an air kill but die in the same sortie, while it shows as a kill in your sortie, it doesn't count towards your overall air kill total.  Thus on map #208 you got an air kill but were also killed, thus no air kill is credited to your total.

 

Focusing on the Moscow North map sorties... we all reset with the standard number of specific aircraft types.   Your first sortie in a Lagg3 in map #208 you were killed.  Thus while flying in map #210, when you started that map you had one Lagg3.  You were killed, so while the web site still showed you had 1 Lagg3, you actually had 0 (you need to keep track of this for the moment).  Thus, when you flew a Lagg3 again in map #210 you were killed - this gave you an inventory of -1/2 Lagg3's.  Since you got to less than 0, you no longer get a "free" core/base Lagg3 aircraft to get you back to 1 (new rules starting this round of TAW: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21029-tactical-air-war/page-122?do=findComment&comment=504514 ):  

• Planes with quantity below 0 will not be replenish automatically by CM+1 anymore.

 

Lastly, experience as you say is combat missions (i.e. CM's) - look at your profile page (link above) for the definition of a CM - it's right below the available planes section.  At a minimum, you have to survive a mission and land your plane (unless you're in the air at the end of a mission), etc...  then you will start earning aircraft.

Edited September 17, 2017 by AKA_Relent

[JG4_dingsda]

Why will the German side always lose the attrition game every time? Both sides have the same maximum aircraft/pilot losses to end a map instantly.

Everything else being equal they'd probably loose because of the different underlying numbers to be captured.