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6./ZG26_McKvack

Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

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I really hope we get to see Leningrad area soon. We already now have lots of planes that fit that front, along with all the official JG54 and Finnish skins that we have in BoS/BoM. It does not even need to be official next title. We really "just" need the map of Leningrad area / Gulf of Finland. Then whenever we get Bf109 G6's, Fw190 A4's, Yak-9's etc from whatever battle, they would automatically fit to the Leningrad area also.

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp
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An early french theatre would be somewhat refreshing but with quite some people already calling BoS and BoM unbalanced I would not expect this to be any popular.

 

The by far most competetive french fighter, the D.520, was still slightly inferiour to the Bf-109 in certain aspects and deployed in too low numbers. Other more common types such as the Bloch 155 were totally outclassed.

 

Sure, you could back the french planeset with Spitfire Mk.Is and Hurricanes. But that probably would not turn the game for the german side.

 

I don´t think that it would be unbalanced. I belive that it would be more balanced than BoM and BoS is now.

The D.520 and MS 406 were nearly as good as the Bf 109 they were only deployed in too low numbers but that is no problem for us because we are not bound to the historical numbers.

They also suffered from time consuming command structures which made a effective defence very hard. But such problems are no problem for MP because de mission builder decides how much planes we get so no problem with that.

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 An early french theatre would be somewhat refreshing but with quite some people already calling BoS and BoM unbalanced I would not expect this to be any popular.
The by far most competetive french fighter, the D.520, was still slightly inferiour to the Bf-109 in certain aspects and deployed in too low numbers. Other more common types such as the Bloch 155 were totally outclassed.

 

Sure, you could back the french planeset with Spitfire Mk.Is and Hurricanes. But that probably would not turn the game for the german side.

Dont see any special lack of balance there mate. The old and reaching its limits MS 406 had a very nice replacements in form of Dewoitine D.520, Bloch MB 152 and extremely nice Arsenal VG-33. One has to add Curtiss H-75s manufactured specifically for French which did very well over France. Armee de L'air had also a modern attacker in form of Breguet Bre.693 and bomber Lioré et Olivier LeO 451. French aviation was quickly modernizing. 

Interesting to note is that French also ordered in US many modern aircraft : Douglas DB-7s, Bell P-400s, B-24s, PBY Catalina's, P-40s, P-46s, and few others in really large numbers. If all this could be delivered  ;)

 

Opposing generally accepted popular beliefs about Battle of France,it was in real quite a good performance on French air force side. They managed to bleed substantial portion of LW helping to establish better odds for BoB. And finally force LW to attack Soviet Union with less a/c that would be necessary.

+1

 

The Next Installments will most likely combine the Med and Black Sea, live with it people, it won't be the downfall of the Occident. 

Just because you say so doesnt mean it will be the case  :P

 

It might just be a Miracle that those Americans constantly complain about the Eastern Front, OP Yaks, Soviet Rubbish, Fw190 Wonder-Überplane, Lack of P-51s, "Catching the Interest of American Consumers with the Western Front" 

I was quite certain those were mostly Luftwaffe pilots complaining on Yaks and magic flaps or FW 190 Wonder-Uberplane, I could swear that many of them had JG or StG in front of their nicknames (nothing against JG or StG guys, just in case) ... 

 

(And just because you triggered me: 109 was faster in the Vertical at all Altitudes, faster above 4.5k, faster in a Dive, could carry a center mounted 30mm+2x13mm MGs which were more than adequate (not counting gun pods) had Armored Glass Head Rests and had to ESCORT the Fw190s, so it was "obviously" the better design) 

No magic there, powerful engine and light weight. Certainly structurally weak  :lol:

Ekhem, I'd love to see 109 performing nearly as well in dive as 190. Maybe one can dive very fast, but can he pull out. Unless of course your aim is last dive ...

30 mm makes so much sense in our combat, and 13 mm's came quite late. You know, there were also E-1 models with four 7.92 Mg 17 machine guns. And F-1 model with MG FF and two 7.92s in cowling. 109s had no protection until certain time and model, and I have yet to see 109s escorting 190s  :)

Rhough I agree that they complemented each other. 

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi

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Might we see French planes flying in the med? May have to correct me on this, but I think the Germans took a few to Syria and whatnot.

I think a couple of D.520s went to Vichy France, Italians, Greece and Syria, but Most MS.406s and P-36s went to the Swiss and Finns. 

 

Wow, you need to look at what you write. Talk about double standards.

 

So Hiromachi shouldn't speak for all Americans, but here you are bitching and generalizing about the American attitude. 

 

 

The funniest part is that your opinion comes from just a handful of people's posts. I bet you couldnt quote 10 different posts here saying "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage".

 

Someone is a little salty.

As if this whole thread was a serious argument about anything. There is just about as much reason to wanting the PTO as any other Theatre, it's all down to personal preference, which in my case lies in the Eastern Front mostly and I defend it (kind of). 

The Devs are based in Russia, the Eastern Front is where their expertise lies, where they have the Experts and Ex-Pilots and where most likely their heart lies as well. 

The games then based around Russia will have more effort and love put into them.

Secondly, the Yak-9 is not just another Yak, it's an amazing fighter.

The Planeset for the Kuban would contain key Pieces for the Mediterranian as well, which is why I wouldn'T mind the two coming simultaneously, since the german Planeset would only have to be modified, no new aircraft. 

I don't think a PTO Installment would be as good qualitywise as MTO + Kuban and Leningrad. 

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Hyperbole, as always. ...

 

[snip]

 

You would do well to look up the definition of 'tact.' 

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"It's what I read into many people's statements."

 

And here is the underlying problem I find in many of your posts. People seeking variety with campaigns and making suggestions other than, "hey, let's do the same thing over and over without regard to the community at large," are not being nationalistic at all. You consistently bring politics and religion into conversations that have nothing to do with either. 

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Groupes de Chasse equipped with P-36 did very well against LW,including many Czechoslovak pilots who fled to France after occupation and creation of protectorate Boehmen und Maehren. After fall of France they had to run again to England. The stories of some of them are fascinating. Moving thru Vichy France and Spain,Gibraltar or even temporarily serving in Legion d'Etrangeres. Let's agree that many of us would like to see all Theatres of operations. It takes time and with level of realism required nowdays it will take a decade to get there. I'm looking forward for my retirement :)

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"It's what I read into many people's statements."

 

And here is the underlying problem I find in many of your posts. People seeking variety with campaigns and making suggestions other than, "hey, let's do the same thing over and over without regard to the community at large," are not being nationalistic at all. You consistently bring politics and religion into conversations that have nothing to do with either. 

I guess you don't get the point of Self-Depracation

 

 

You would do well to look up the definition of 'tact.' 

I, ... I know that word. It's that thing I do with real people in the real world, I think.

 

 

But anyways. Next Game not expected for this year at least and I'd offer myself to compile a couple of good Plane Sets and Map IN A SPECIFIC PERIOD (Year and Time of Year) Ideas INCLUDING the Pacific, Burma, Eastern Front, Western Front and create a Poll in the Polls Section. (Although it feels like that'S half the Polls and most people won't even bother to look.) 

And despite displaying it, I am not biased really, to any side in creating a good set, but I will vote anyways, whatever catches my fancy. 

You guys don't know the good half of me (probably because I'm not really showing it here). 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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I, ... I know that word. It's that thing I do with real people in the real world, I think.

 

Right because this forum is in Narnia with bots posting to keep it entertaining for you.

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I, ... I know that word. It's that thing I do with real people in the real world, I think.

 

Yes, you might actually try putting it into practice. 

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I wouldn't get too worked up about it, Klaus is a good lad whose humour can sometimes be a little abrasive (and most of the time fishing for a reaction), but I recommend not taking it very seriously at all. if these threads weren't fun we wouldn't be 21 pages down it, and this is just one of the many theatre discussion threads we have seen over time.

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Oh yeah, it certainly is entertaining. Have a lot of fun posting here. 

 

 

 

Burma

I took care of that about a month ago and worked up something solid. 

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Right because this forum is in Narnia with bots posting to keep it entertaining for you.

Exactly, this is what I see:

 

[Edited]

 

Autism is not funny. You should really try a bit harder to exercise that tact thing.

Also ... I have spoken to you about language in the past please try to get your point across without the expletives.

Edited by Bearcat

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A: fixed it

B: Triggered as [Edited]

C: Does it Burn well?

           Yak and Bf109: No, it has self sealing fuel tanks and amor

           Zero: Yes, about as well as Buddhist Monks                                                   (Mods: feel free to Edit)

 

Does it fall apart at more than walking Pace?

       Yak and Bf109: No, they are built from proper materials

       Zero: Yes, because it's built from Aluminium of Rice-Paper Strength

 

Does it shoot well?

-Yak and Bf109: Mg151/20 and Shvak were both Belt Fed Cannons with High Rates of Fire and Muzzle Velocity and Effective HE&AP Rounds.

-Zero: Based on the Drumfed MG FF with shortened barrels, probably the worst cannons in anything WWII ever. MGs weren't any better either.

 

 

 

 

 

It's f*ing boooring. Not even a single consideration given. 6 hours of this "Scenery" are torture. 

open-sea-649191_960_720.jpg

Maybe look into a med change ?

Finds PTO planset and landscape boring. Wants more 109s,Yaks and Russian steppes

Of course you would, who isn't a fan of " ground hog day "?

Edited by Bearcat

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Today I learned:

 

- Eastern Front only happened in Russia, and it was all Yaks and steppes

- The Far East theatres are one big ocean, with ground battles likely happening in Atlantis

- The Mediterranean is a big desert with a lake. Malta stands in the centre of that lake.

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Eastern Front only happened in Russia, and it was all Yaks and steppes

There were also those mongols flying, but not sure what they were flying :biggrin: 

 

 

 

The Far East theatres are one big ocean, with ground battles likely happening in Atlantis

Hence why Japanese designed midget submarines, so every soldier can have one !

 

 

 

The Mediterranean is a big desert with a lake. Malta stands in the centre of that lake.

For "Italians" it's been mare nostrum for 2000 years  :)

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Battle of France could actually be very well balanced - the LW suffered a higher overall casualty rate in May 1940 than in either August or September during the BoB, due to very high bomber losses. Even in fighter/fighter combat they by no means had it all their own way even if they had a slight technology edge at the time. 

 

Unlike the BoB there is the whole range of tactical ground support missions to do. Plus we would get some really interesting new aircraft.

 

(And they can make a map that could be converted for RoF2 ;) )

 

(Good tables in here https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/AAF-Luftwaffe-2.html)

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The only way to get all those Theatres in reasonable time is 1CGS licensing their engine to other game studios. Are there any ? If yes,are they interested?

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The only way to get all those Theatres in reasonable time is 1CGS licensing their engine to other game studios.

 

 

Map making tools and a Mods-on mode might go a long way as well.

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Map making tools and a Mods-on mode might go a long way as well.

Map making tools would be fun! I dont know if we would need some 3D modeling knowledge, or it would come with default objects to place, like in the mission editor.

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Battle of France could actually be very well balanced - the LW suffered a higher overall casualty rate in May 1940 than in either August or September during the BoB, due to very high bomber losses. Even in fighter/fighter combat they by no means had it all their own way even if they had a slight technology edge at the time. 

 

Unlike the BoB there is the whole range of tactical ground support missions to do. Plus we would get some really interesting new aircraft.

 

(And they can make a map that could be converted for RoF2 ;) )

 

(Good tables in here https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/AAF-Luftwaffe-2.html)

1. On the fighter side, yes, But were there any mentionable Counter Strikes from the French, in other words were there ever any french Bombers in Action during the BoF? Otherwise it's really just a fighter fest and the Groun Pounders (like me) are left out. 

2. Finally someone thinking of reducing workload for the Devs. 

 

Well, heaving read further, the LeO 45 of one group dropped 320 tons of bombs and the eternally ugly Breguet 693 served as well, so Ground Pounders get their share as well. 

Really, the only argument against it is the duration of 1 month and 15 days and most of it was over after Dunkirk. 

 

I really like the idea however. 

I think if at some point a couple of independent guys would find one another to start a planeset and maps for both Finnland and France, since they shared quite a bit of equipment, we could have it, but as a standalone BoF I'm skeptical. 

(P-36s, Ms.406 and others, captured)

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Groupes de Chasse equipped with P-36 did very well against LW,including many Czechoslovak pilots who fled to France after occupation and creation of protectorate Boehmen und Maehren. After fall of France they had to run again to England. The stories of some of them are fascinating. Moving thru Vichy France and Spain,Gibraltar or even temporarily serving in Legion d'Etrangeres. Let's agree that many of us would like to see all Theatres of operations. It takes time and with level of realism required nowdays it will take a decade to get there. I'm looking forward for my retirement :)

Aloïse Vasatko, François Périna, and all their Czechoslovak compatriots shot down almost 150 German aircraft in the French skies in less than two months, while flying inferior types! Incredible indeed what hat they did to defend peoples and countries which governments betrayed their own country (btw always wondered why the Munich agreement (1938) was never considered as infamous as the Soviet-German non-agression pact (1939)? Maybe because "good" countries like Britain and France signed it to please Hitler's Germany. Or perhaps Chamberlain and Daladier looked more handsome than Molotov?  Funnily this hum "agreement" hum is rarely considered as a pact with the devil... :happy:)

 

Well, just like the Polish pilots and later the Free French, they were not of the kind that give up, unsung heroes! :salute:

Edited by Yak9Micha

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1. On the fighter side, yes, But were there any mentionable Counter Strikes from the French, in other words were there ever any french Bombers in Action during the BoF? Otherwise it's really just a fighter fest and the Groun Pounders (like me) are left out. 

2. Finally someone thinking of reducing workload for the Devs. 

 

 the only argument against it is the duration of 1 month and 15 days and most of it was over after Dunkirk. 

 

 

1) Yes there were a lot of French Counter Strikes but they never were able to accomplish much because of a number of resons like: too few planes of the good types, old tactics, no cooperation,... All this points are quiet unimportant for us because we don´t have to limite planes in missions or both sides are affected by the reasons.

 

Time is also no problem many missions in the Pacific would take only a view days it still worked in the old IL2.

Don´t forget that we can make three or four flights per day which makes for quiet a long campaign.

 

When you think of a new map and try to decide if it would be possible forget the limits that were there in real life because most of them like limited number of planes, bad pilots, old tactics and many more would no be true for for us in game because they would eighter affect both sides or not be a problem at all like old tactics.

More important would be to think of the typs of planes that could be used in the timeframe covered by the map.

And if missions could be fun and diffrent enough to interest people flying on both sides that one side will lose the war is of no interest at all because you still can have success on the losing side by accomplishing your mission whit success.

:)

Edited by Gunsmith86

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1. On the fighter side, yes, But were there any mentionable Counter Strikes from the French, in other words were there ever any french Bombers in Action during the BoF? Otherwise it's really just a fighter fest and the Groun Pounders (like me) are left out. 

2. Finally someone thinking of reducing workload for the Devs. 

 

Well, heaving read further, the LeO 45 of one group dropped 320 tons of bombs and the eternally ugly Breguet 693 served as well, so Ground Pounders get their share as well. 

Really, the only argument against it is the duration of 1 month and 15 days and most of it was over after Dunkirk. 

 

I really like the idea however. 

I think if at some point a couple of independent guys would find one another to start a planeset and maps for both Finnland and France, since they shared quite a bit of equipment, we could have it, but as a standalone BoF I'm skeptical. 

(P-36s, Ms.406 and others, captured)

 

Do not forget that about 30% of the allied planes in the OOB were British - actually probably a much higher percentage of sorties if you take into account the very low serviceability levels the French achieved. 

So you could fly a Fairey Battle and attack the the pontoon bridges at Sedan. ;)

 

I wonder if the duration is such an issue - for MP it hardly matters as everyone just repeats themselves anyway. For SP perhaps more of a problem, but even here you can increase the number of sorties per day to get upto 50-100 sorties in a campaign. Very few people survive that long.

 

Idle speculation, alas: it will never happen.

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Hyperbole, as always. 

Discussin the Entire Zero in the General Discussions Thread of a Public Forum would take Ages, and I was countering a stupid claim, more than dismissing the Zero Outright. I personally don't mind it, but it's nowhere even close to any European Fighter, too slow, structurally weak and underarmed, but descent enough against the early American Rubbish. 

 

Personally I don't mind the Zero and PTO, I mind that American Attitude of "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage"

It's what I read into many people's statements. 

 

 

It might just be a Miracle that those Americans constantly complain about the Eastern Front, OP Yaks, Soviet Rubbish, Fw190 Wonder-Überplane, Lack of P-51s, "Catching the Interest of American Consumers with the Western Front" 

I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans, because there are plenty of counter examples. 

 

(And just because you triggered me: 109 was faster in the Vertical at all Altitudes, faster above 4.5k, faster in a Dive, could carry a center mounted 30mm+2x13mm MGs which were more than adequate (not counting gun pods) had Armored Glass Head Rests and had to ESCORT the Fw190s, so it was "obviously" the better design) 

 

 

I know, right?

 

I know right...

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Campaign length isn't all that troublesome - BoS initially covered the end of November until January or so, I think.

 

Kursk or France example could be done because you had the battle moving quickly across the front so it wasn't stagnant, and pilots were flying upwards of 5 sorties a day (a general reality in most of the Eastern Front). So, 45 days of operations would give you over 200 sorties which is sizeable enough for any campaign. And if you consider that one can play both sides and in different roles, it becomes endless.

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Frankly,I don't care what will devs do next.I will gladly join another preorder session. In fact,its the most interesting part of the game for me ;)

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Frankly,I don't care what will devs do next.I will gladly join another preorder session. In fact,its

the most interesting part of the game for me ;)

Same here. I'll buy what ever is coming, I've enjoyed so much flying BoS.

Don't really care anymore what scenario is next, I'm sure it will be great.

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Frankly,I don't care what will devs do next.I will gladly join another preorder session. In fact,its the most interesting part of the game for me ;)

 

Yes, I agree.  I've enjoyed the early access thing a great deal.  I'll be pre-ordering the next instalment wherever it is. :salute:

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I know right...

Bear Cat, Klaus is clearly not " right enough "  to understand your not so subtle rebuff.

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Yes, I agree.  I've enjoyed the early access thing a great deal.  I'll be pre-ordering the next instalment wherever it is. :salute:

And so will I.

I hope the Devs will give us a List with possible Theatres, Timeframes and Aircraft at some point to choose from. 

Even better would be if the Murmansk Map was to be completed this year with Ju-87Rs or Bs for Anti Shipping Missions. 

I would love to either see Spitfires over the Kuban and the Med, or Leningrad with Finnish Aircraft and later on the Battle France sharing some Aircraft based on RoF Map. 

And we need of course a flyable Ju-52 and Po-2. Probably most of all in fact. Especially the Po-2. 

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And so will I.

I hope the Devs will give us a List with possible Theatres, Timeframes and Aircraft at some point to choose from. 

Even better would be if the Murmansk Map was to be completed this year with Ju-87Rs or Bs for Anti Shipping Missions. 

I would love to either see Spitfires over the Kuban and the Med, or Leningrad with Finnish Aircraft and later on the Battle France sharing some Aircraft based on RoF Map. 

And we need of course a flyable Ju-52 and Po-2. Probably most of all in fact. Especially the Po-2. 

Mmmm, Spitfires in this sim: it will surely make a lot of people join the sim! And it could also become one of the most beautiful model in the game.

 

Kuban. It's the promise to see so many loved aircraft, and sea, and mountains! It's really what i would like to see next but as said by many, i would be satisfied with just anything new, provided it comes with the same BOS quality. Cannot wait to see what's coming next!

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Probably the two most beautiful aircraft after the Bf109:

The Yak-9 just moves me in ways, few other things can (109s)

(And yes, those are Yak-3s, but there were no Yak-9+Spit Pics)

9060308980_81004fd1b5_b.jpg3000010615_2.jpg

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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The only reall adoreable Yak to me is the Yak-3, which probably isn't goign to come very soon.

 

Still doesn't "move" me nearly as much as ths this does...

219-b-1280.jpg

 

8710523559_9d6a2d696c_b.jpg

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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First two will not be pleasant, I cant yet recall a single game that made at least decent telescopic sights. Later models thankfully got reflector sights. 

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Groupes de Chasse equipped with P-36 did very well against LW,including many Czechoslovak pilots who fled to France after occupation and creation of protectorate Boehmen und Maehren...

 Czechoslovak, or just Czech?  Slovakia was a German client state at that time, their airforce participated in the invasion of Poland.

Edited by WokeUpDead

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Czechoslovaks. People refusing Munich Treaty (about us-without us) still being Czechoslovakia citizens. Not of Protectorate or Slovak state. Backed by exile government in London.

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