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6./ZG26_McKvack

Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

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Well,depends on individual expectations.Having new map and set of interesting new planes/ground/naval units is fair deal for me. Others may have different expectations. I respect that.

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Not true. Or well, true if you have a decent day. If you've ever sailed or even had a trip on a cruise ship, you'd know how rough sea can be. 

There are days as nice as this one :

8eTfYr.jpg

 

And there are those which you dont want to see ...

 

But anyway, I dont get it why PTO is like ... carriers, sea, nothing else. The actual fighting took place on islands, smaller or bigger but still islands. New Guinea, New Britain, Timor, Sumatra, plenty of big islands. And they are not flat.

Irrespective of the island topographies, PTO scenarios are always yawn-inducing. Back when the Spits v 109s servers were still relevant, Zekes/Wildcats was always my least favourite server. Nothing like a 45 minute flight time to and from the objective to get the heart pumping. The aircraft are super uninspiring, too. Which variant of "metal US energy fighter with 6x 50 cals" should I fly today?

 

What was the name of Sparx's server? Warclouds? At least their not-super-historical plane set had variety. Tempest/Jug/Mustang/Spit were all quite different to fly. In the PTO you have the P-38 plus a bunch of aircraft that are all pretty much the same.

Edited by 13GIAP_opcode

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Over time one learns the truth about theatres and expansions: most people love two and hate all the rest.

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Over time one learns the truth about theatres and expansions: most people love two and hate all the rest.

Perhaps.

 

I loved most of IL2's expansions save PF. There's really only two scenarios that I find tedious and dry: Early Battle of Britain and Mid-to-late-war Pacific. Even early PTO isn't *that* bad, because the Zero is such a beast and the Wildcats really have their work cut out for them. If the mission designer foregoes the seemingly obligatory fifteen-grid flight time, it can be very fun. By the time the Hellcat comes on the scene, though, it becomes a snoozefest for me.

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I can relate in some ways, though I see the value for those who like it. Ultimately most of us stick to the stuff they find interesting as a whole. To me the Eastern Front as a theatre is as hot as it gets since it was virtually non-stop ground action with the front lines moving back and forth all the time and operations on unseen scales, all the way from 1941 to 1945. The ground war there really meant that getting your bombers through and shooting down the enemy's bombers were the main goals for the air forces, which makes the battles very purposeful.

 

Taking multiplayer as an example, the DED 72 server presents a believable scenario where the second you cross the front line there are targets all around, also meaning the second the enemy crosses your lines you need to shoot them down before they deal some damage. It's very frantic.

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Irrespective of the island topographies, PTO scenarios are always yawn-inducing. Back when the Spits v 109s servers were still relevant, Zekes/Wildcats was always my least favourite server. Nothing like a 45 minute flight time to and from the objective to get the heart pumping. The aircraft are super uninspiring, too. Which variant of "metal US energy fighter with 6x 50 cals" should I fly today?

 

What was the name of Sparx's server? Warclouds? At least their not-super-historical plane set had variety. Tempest/Jug/Mustang/Spit were all quite different to fly. In the PTO you have the P-38 plus a bunch of aircraft that are all pretty much the same.

I was completely the opposite. Zekes vs Wildcats was great for me as I could choose between two incredibly different flight styles and targets. Navigating over water was an absorbing challenge too.

Warclouds was the most grindingly repetitive experience and was my least favourite server by far. I couldn't go more than a few minutes before quitting.

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Does anyone know what happened to Sparx? We used to chat on TS all the time, I haven't talked to him in probably 10 years.

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Irrespective of the island topographies, PTO scenarios are always yawn-inducing. Back when the Spits v 109s servers were still relevant, Zekes/Wildcats was always my least favourite server. Nothing like a 45 minute flight time to and from the objective to get the heart pumping. The aircraft are super uninspiring, too. Which variant of "metal US energy fighter with 6x 50 cals" should I fly today?

 

What was the name of Sparx's server? Warclouds? At least their not-super-historical plane set had variety. Tempest/Jug/Mustang/Spit were all quite different to fly. In the PTO you have the P-38 plus a bunch of aircraft that are all pretty much the same.

While I respect your different view on things and can understand that you're not getting excited with longer flights, thats not entirely true. There were also faster missions, bringing more action. 

 

But thats quite unfair to cut the Allied aircraft only to P-40, F4F-4, F4U and F6F (which I presume you thought of when talking of "metal US energy fighter with six .50 caliber machine guns). There were also CW-21 flying in early in the war, later one could find Spitfire V, Boomerangs, P-38s, P-39s, P-47s and P-51s, Hurricanes IIc and IV, etc. I remember single player missions created for Beaufighters over New Guinea or Mosquitos over Burma. 

Dunno what is inspiring than. Yak ? Bf-109 ? 

 

I also cant find how F4F, F4U and F6F can be considered the same. Maybe with primitive engine old Il-2 (the flight model files had only 32 inputs or so, there was only so much that could be simulated in that game !) things felt generic, but never found that as a problem. That was my first big sim, and still have warm feelings towards it. Now with BoS its different, as the feeling is so much better and I found it hard some time ago to fly the old Il-2...

 

 

I was completely the opposite. Zekes vs Wildcats was great for me as I could choose between two incredibly different flight styles and targets. Navigating over water was an absorbing challenge too.

Warclouds was the most grindingly repetitive experience and was my least favourite server by far. I couldn't go more than a few minutes before quitting.

I had so much fun on Zekes vs Wildcat. There was always that guy who entered and wrote on chat : "Time to wreck some meatballs" and unsurprisingly moments later a chat message appeared that Player X was shot down by a Zero.

And one could count on teamwork. 

 

But still, if one finds pure PTO as uninspiring than there is also Far East with major air battles over Burma and India since 1942 till 1945. Variety of aircraft is wide, terrain is very different and to be honest it never received much attention. 

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I had so much fun on Zekes vs Wildcat. There was always that guy who entered and wrote on chat : "Time to wreck some meatballs" and unsurprisingly moments later a chat message appeared that Player X was shot down by a Zero.

 

 

Oh my God, I remember that too!  His name was ZekeKiller or something.

 

Server:  Welcome ZekeKiller from USA

"alright!  Time to get me some meatballs!!!"

Shortly afterwards:

Server:  ZekeKiller was destroyed by Kenji Nakamura...

"Damn damn damn DAMN!!!"

Server: Zekekiller has left the game...

 

:lol:

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The guys at WOP made very good missions. Ironbottom was one of my favorite. Great admins there too. Faust was the zekes admin.

 

We really need some American servers. Last nights wings of limitations numbers was awful. I think the russian plane set is running thin with our time zone. Dear God please move to a different theater.

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While I respect your different view on things and can understand that you're not getting excited with longer flights, thats not entirely true. There were also faster missions, bringing more action. 

 

But thats quite unfair to cut the Allied aircraft only to P-40, F4F-4, F4U and F6F (which I presume you thought of when talking of "metal US energy fighter with six .50 caliber machine guns). There were also CW-21 flying in early in the war, later one could find Spitfire V, Boomerangs, P-38s, P-39s, P-47s and P-51s, Hurricanes IIc and IV, etc. I remember single player missions created for Beaufighters over New Guinea or Mosquitos over Burma. 

Dunno what is inspiring than. Yak ? Bf-109 ? 

 

I also cant find how F4F, F4U and F6F can be considered the same. Maybe with primitive engine old Il-2 (the flight model files had only 32 inputs or so, there was only so much that could be simulated in that game !) things felt generic, but never found that as a problem. That was my first big sim, and still have warm feelings towards it. Now with BoS its different, as the feeling is so much better and I found it hard some time ago to fly the old Il-2...

 

 

I had so much fun on Zekes vs Wildcat. There was always that guy who entered and wrote on chat : "Time to wreck some meatballs" and unsurprisingly moments later a chat message appeared that Player X was shot down by a Zero.

And one could count on teamwork. 

 

But still, if one finds pure PTO as uninspiring than there is also Far East with major air battles over Burma and India since 1942 till 1945. Variety of aircraft is wide, terrain is very different and to be honest it never received much attention. 

 

I'm reading this and thinking that it would be great to make a really radical shift in the next instalment - and I'd love to experience F4U, F6F and contemporary Japanese opponents done in detail to modern standards in this game. 

 

Think I'm going to really struggle to muster much enthusiasm for further sub-variants of 109, 190, Yak, il-2.

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I'm reading this and thinking that it would be great to make a really radical shift in the next instalment - and I'd love to experience F4U, F6F and contemporary Japanese opponents done in detail to modern standards in this game. 

 

Think I'm going to really struggle to muster much enthusiasm for further sub-variants of 109, 190, Yak, il-2.

 

 

Yeah we need more Yaks and La's and 109s.  That will swell the ranks of multiplayer and boost this franchise into legendary flight sim status in no time...

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I'd love to go PTO, but I'd like to see late war variants of EF planes. I want both, and your right we need more US expert servers. I hate WOL, but every ones there all the time, so I fly there. I wish we had a US based WOL equivalent with out locked loadouts, maybe a trip to the PTO sooner than expected would help....

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Well I'd say the Finnish campaign since we are not far from Finland as it is and I would really like the Buffalo and the Gladiator :)

 

Finnish aircraft

At the start of hostilities, the Finnish Air Force had 146 aircraft of all types at its disposal. The primary fighter aircraft were 15 Bristol Bulldog IVs, which had entered service in 1935, and 41 of the more modern Fokker D.XXI. There were also 18 license-built Bristol Blenheim bombers. In 1939, an order had been placed in Italy for 25 Fiat G.50 fighters; two were being assembled in Sweden when the war broke out.

During the war, a number of aircraft were ordered from abroad:[citation needed]

In air combat, Finland used the "finger four" formation (four planes split into two pairs, one flying low and the other high, with each plane fighting independently of the others, yet supporting its wingman in combat), which was superior to the Soviet tactic of three fighters flying in a Vic formation. This formation and the credo of Finnish pilots to always attack, no matter the odds, contributed to the failure of Soviet bombers to inflict substantial damage against Finnish positions and population centres.

Edited by MA_Goblin

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Well I'd say the Finnish campaign since we are not far from Finland as it is and I would really like the Buffalo and the Gladiator :)

 

Finnish aircraft

At the start of hostilities, the Finnish Air Force had 146 aircraft of all types at its disposal. The primary fighter aircraft were 15 Bristol Bulldog IVs, which had entered service in 1935, and 41 of the more modern Fokker D.XXI. There were also 18 license-built Bristol Blenheim bombers. In 1939, an order had been placed in Italy for 25 Fiat G.50 fighters; two were being assembled in Sweden when the war broke out.

During the war, a number of aircraft were ordered from abroad:[citation needed]

In air combat, Finland used the "finger four" formation (four planes split into two pairs, one flying low and the other high, with each plane fighting independently of the others, yet supporting its wingman in combat), which was superior to the Soviet tactic of three fighters flying in a Vic formation. This formation and the credo of Finnish pilots to always attack, no matter the odds, contributed to the failure of Soviet bombers to inflict substantial damage against Finnish positions and population centres.

 

Love this planeset and its soviet contemporaries. The summer finish maps in il2 1946 were some of my favourites

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The guys at WOP made very good missions. Ironbottom was one of my favorite. Great admins there too. Faust was the zekes admin.

 

We really need some American servers. Last nights wings of limitations numbers was awful. I think the russian plane set is running thin with our time zone. Dear God please move to a different theater.

The guys at WOP also made some horrible missions. Mostly due to GunRunner, who would routinely insist that nothing be faster than whatever spitfire was on the map.

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 The guys at WOP also made some horrible missions. Mostly due to GunRunner, who would routinely insist that nothing be faster than whatever spitfire was on the map.

Lol I wasn't going to mention Gunrunner. He was an old fart who banned me more than once. 190 A5 1.58 still ruled the spitfires. Those were the good days.

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Let's get this franchise to the PTO asap. For those who need their fix of the  slow and maneuverable 109? or yak?.. You can fly a Zero it does all a 109? and/or Yak? can do ,only better plus it is  better armed. Navigation and piloting skills are much more challenging in the PTO. The weather is further compounds  the challenge, you just can't" belly in" the middle of the Pacific ocean hop out and walk back to your own air base.

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"TRIGGER WARNING: LIES AND PTO"

Let's get this franchise to the PTO asap. For those who need their fix of the  slow and maneuverable 109? or yak?.. You can fly a Zero it does all a 109? and/or Yak? can do ,only better plus it is  better armed. Navigation and piloting skills are much more challenging in the PTO. The weather is further compounds  the challenge, you just can't" belly in" the middle of the Pacific ocean hop out and walk back to your own air base.

A: fixed it

B: Triggered as [Edited]

C: Does it Burn well?

           Yak and Bf109: No, it has self sealing fuel tanks and amor

           Zero: Yes, about as well as Buddhist Monks                                                   (Mods: feel free to Edit)

 

Does it fall apart at more than walking Pace?

       Yak and Bf109: No, they are built from proper materials

       Zero: Yes, because it's built from Aluminium of Rice-Paper Strength

 

Does it shoot well?

-Yak and Bf109: Mg151/20 and Shvak were both Belt Fed Cannons with High Rates of Fire and Muzzle Velocity and Effective HE&AP Rounds.

-Zero: Based on the Drumfed MG FF with shortened barrels, probably the worst cannons in anything WWII ever. MGs weren't any better either.

 

 

 

 

Navigation and piloting skills are much more Mentally Challenged in the PTO (fixed it again)

 

It's [Edited] boooring. Not even a single consideration given. 6 hours of this "Scenery" are torture. 

open-sea-649191_960_720.jpg

Edited by Bearcat

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Well Klaus, I find your post to be very well thought out, it satisfies levels of university research. Some 3rd world country university.

 

But a small hint, buy yourself a boat or at least a ticket on a cruising ship and after that tell me its "booooring". I found it very challenging to sail on a boat as a kid.

Besides, it was mentioned that those major naval battles took place in proximity of islands, major campaigns were always related to ground since no army can occupy water ...

 

Zero: Yes, because it's built from Aluminium of Rice-Paper Strength

That's a good one  :lol:

 

Zero: Based on the Drumfed MG FF with shortened barrels, probably the worst cannons in anything WWII ever. MGs weren't any better either.

I thought they used katanas ?

SKBdif.jpg

 

I love spending 45 minutes looking at my radio compass.

But I thought we all use map gps ?  

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi

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It's f*ing boooring. Not even a single consideration given. 6 hours of this "Scenery" are torture. 

 

open-sea-649191_960_720.jpg

 

I found that picture restlessly brooding.  The implacable sea, the ship's wake and the first sight of the hostile shore....

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The implacable sea, the ship's wake and the first sight of the hostile shore....

Why hostile ? I'm sure there are some friendly natives waiting with a stew !

tumblr_inline_nxzplrSl811tpgwgf_1280.png

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Well Klaus, I find your post to be very well thought out, it satisfies levels of university research. Some 3rd world country university.

 

But a small hint, buy yourself a boat or at least a ticket on a cruising ship and after that tell me its "booooring". I found it very challenging to sail on a boat as a kid.

Besides, it was mentioned that those major naval battles took place in proximity of islands, major campaigns were always related to ground since no army can occupy water ...

 

That's a good one  :lol:

 

I thought they used katanas ?

 

 

But I thought we all use map gps ?  

Hyperbole, as always. 

Discussin the Entire Zero in the General Discussions Thread of a Public Forum would take Ages, and I was countering a stupid claim, more than dismissing the Zero Outright. I personally don't mind it, but it's nowhere even close to any European Fighter, too slow, structurally weak and underarmed, but descent enough against the early American Rubbish. 

 

Personally I don't mind the Zero and PTO, I mind that American Attitude of "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage"

It's what I read into many people's statements. 

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I personally don't mind it, but it's nowhere even close to any European Fighter, too slow, structurally weak and underarmed, but descent enough against the early American Rubbish. 

 

I personally dont mind 109, even though its not even close to any FW-190. Too slow, structurally weak and under-armed, but decent enough against early Soviet Rubbish  :lol:

 

On serious note, I'd argue every point you brought for hours like I usually do but my coffee is about to finish and I got to go for some lectures at my University. 

 

Personally I don't mind the Zero and PTO, I mind that American Attitude of "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage"

It's what I read into many people's statements. 

It must be a miracle that all those American guys bought Battle of Stalingrad not involving a single American aircraft. Or Battle of Moscow with P-40 Flying Target. Klaus, I just think that some folks (me including) would just like to see a new theater quite different from current ones with new plane sets. We all (including American members) fly and enjoy this product, so dont think there is such attitude present. 

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi

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I personally dont mind 109, even though its not even close to any FW-190. Too slow, structurally weak and under-armed, but decent enough against early Soviet Rubbish  :lol:

 

On serious note, I'd argue every point you brought for hours like I usually do but my coffee is about to finish and I got to go for some lectures at my University. 

 

It must be a miracle that all those American guys bought Battle of Stalingrad not involving a single American aircraft. Or Battle of Moscow with P-40 Flying Target. Klaus, I just think that some folks (me including) would just like to see a new theater quite different from current ones with new plane sets. We all (including American members) fly and enjoy this product, so dont think there is such attitude present. 

It might just be a Miracle that those Americans constantly complain about the Eastern Front, OP Yaks, Soviet Rubbish, Fw190 Wonder-Überplane, Lack of P-51s, "Catching the Interest of American Consumers with the Western Front" 

I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans, because there are plenty of counter examples. 

 

(And just because you triggered me: 109 was faster in the Vertical at all Altitudes, faster above 4.5k, faster in a Dive, could carry a center mounted 30mm+2x13mm MGs which were more than adequate (not counting gun pods) had Armored Glass Head Rests and had to ESCORT the Fw190s, so it was "obviously" the better design) 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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Comparign PTO fighters with European ones will always depict the later as superiour because they're build for entirely different conditions

 

In the pacific range and versatiliy were more improtant than single aircraft performences. It's a more unforgiving theatre than the European continent and requires very specialised aircraft. If you compare that with german technologly, the 109 E didn't even had enought range to battle it out long enought over England. It's simply not fair so look at speed and climb stats to determine the better aircraft but also their background, how they were deployed and in which operations.

 

And talking about the for whatever reason so popular 109/190 comparison, no, the 109 wasn't the superiour fighter. Both aircraft complementeted each other, not surpassed.

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It might just be a Miracle that those Americans constantly complain about the Eastern Front, OP Yaks, Soviet Rubbish, Fw190 Wonder-Überplane, Lack of P-51s, "Catching the Interest of American Consumers with the Western Front" 

I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans, because there are plenty of counter examples. 

 

(And just because you triggered me: 109 was faster in the Vertical at all Altitudes, faster above 4.5k, faster in a Dive, could carry a center mounted 30mm+2x13mm MGs which were more than adequate (not counting gun pods) had Armored Glass Head Rests and had to ESCORT the Fw190s, so it was obviously the better design) 

 

 

Aaaaand he's at it again. 

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I have a dream - Battle of France 1940

 

9f5271a2d70eaaeae3b4573f06cd2d67.jpg5_fs.jpg

4_fs.jpg2_fs.jpg

fad60ff922878cb24a6d8745e6d6cf54.jpg1_fs.jpg

There was a battle in France?:) Just kidding:)

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There was a battle in France? :) Just kidding:)

It's just as nonsensical a theater. It didn't last more than a month and was about as fair and balanced as Fox News (It's an old one, I know)

I like the Planeset, but it won't spark interest. 

The Next Installments will most likely combine the Med and Black Sea, live with it people, it won't be the downfall of the Occident. 

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Opposing generally accepted popular beliefs about Battle of France,it was in real quite a good performance on French air force side. They managed to bleed substantial portion of LW helping to establish better odds for BoB. And finally force LW to attack Soviet Union with less a/c that would be necessary.

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Might we see French planes flying in the med? May have to correct me on this, but I think the Germans took a few to Syria and whatnot.

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I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans, because there are plenty of counter examples. 

 

Wow, you need to look at what you write. Talk about double standards.

 

So Hiromachi shouldn't speak for all Americans, but here you are bitching and generalizing about the American attitude. 

 

I mind that American Attitude of "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage"

It's what I read into many people's statements. 

 

The funniest part is that your opinion comes from just a handful of people's posts. I bet you couldnt quote 10 different posts here saying "If it ain't involving us good ol white Muricans, but dem Commies, it ain't interstin, it's anti-murican and is Garbage".

 

Someone is a little salty.

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An early french theatre would be somewhat refreshing but with quite some people already calling BoS and BoM unbalanced I would not expect this to be any popular.

 

The by far most competetive french fighter, the D.520, was still slightly inferiour to the Bf-109 in certain aspects and deployed in too low numbers. Other more common types such as the Bloch 155 were totally outclassed.

 

Sure, you could back the french planeset with Spitfire Mk.Is and Hurricanes. But that probably would not turn the game for the german side.

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