IL2 Sturmovik: Battle of Guadacanal/Midway

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

If you kids want to talk numbers you're going to get Eastern Front 1943 as a result - 10.657.000 troops in total.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

If you kids want to talk numbers you're going to get Eastern Front 1943 as a result - 10.657.000 troops in total.

Please keep that condescending tone for yourself. I only brought the numbers to show relative proportion between PTO and ETO at given time. It is common knowledge that Soviet Union brought largest Army into the war, with capabilities greatly exceeding any other nation. But it is also a common knowledge that without Lend-Lease this Army could starve and might be hindered in their operations. 

Anyway, that is a bit of an offtop. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It was a joke Hiromachi, I'm on my phone so I can't really add the smiles and so on to demarcate that, sorry it came across the wrong way.

 

I think Burma would be the most fun out of the Far East, underrated as hell though.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Right, sorry than if I may have sounded overreacting. Just a rough day it was. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

 

Colon and parentheses works from a mobile device

 

:) :)

 

Sent from my iphone

Edited March 6, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

No hard feelings, I'm working until 1AM on a Sunday so I can relate. And for some reason escaped my mind right there, even though I use often.

 

...

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Damn, so I'm not the only one working on Sundays 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Every week the same struggle

[Original_Uwe]

Yes there was a sideshow-the pacific theatre.

Allied strategy was Europe first, Japan second.

So yes that means that the Finns, Italians, north afrikans, and Balkan people were actually, quite literally, more important to the allied high command than the inferior Japanese.

In hindsight we can see that there was simply NO WAY the japs provided an enduring threat. They were destined to lose.

The Germans...well not so much.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

Mate, the Italian front is the definition a sideshow post Overlord.

Edited March 7, 2016 by RoflSeal

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Wow, you have an interesting take on history. Both were considerable threats and the Americans were just barely onboard for the Europe first doctrine. There were heavy negotiations and much wrangling to keep the allies together throughout the entire war. The Germans hoped they could to split the alliance and the Japanese were probably playing for a negotiated settlement. The numbers of combat lives lost do not have a direct correlation to strategic importance. You may not like the PTO but to suggest many of your recommendations are primary while the PTO was even remotely secondary is seriously revisionist.

Edited March 7, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Original_Uwe]

Of course we wanted to hammer the japs back first-that was an emotional response on a national level.

However the Germans were the bigger threat-hence why we did agree to Europe first.

So say what you like about my revisionist bend in this regard, but the PTO was as a matter of policy on the back burner until affairs in Europe were finished.

Hence, I would hope to see the game advance accordingly.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yes there was a sideshow-the pacific theatre.

Allied strategy was Europe first, Japan second.

So yes that means that the Finns, Italians, north afrikans, and Balkan people were actually, quite literally, more important to the allied high command than the inferior Japanese.

In hindsight we can see that there was simply NO WAY the japs provided an enduring threat. They were destined to lose.

The Germans...well not so much

The Germans were clearly going to lose unless they could secure rapid victory. That was their entire operational plan with the possible exception of Der Fuhrer. Everyone, including the Germans, knew they could not win a protracted war and they didn't. Your take on history is astounding on the most fundamental of levels.

Edited March 7, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Allied strategy was Europe first, Japan second.

The strategy was agreed during ABC–1 conference, months before the Americans even "joined" the war. 

 

So yes that means that the Finns, Italians, north afrikans, and Balkan people were actually, quite literally, more important to the allied high command than the inferior Japanese.

In hindsight we can see that there was simply NO WAY the japs provided an enduring threat. They were destined to lose.

The Germans...well not so much. 

Not really. Balkans were only a Churchill dream, neither Roosevelt nor Stalin wanted Western Allies to take actions there. They also took no actions against Finland, I mean what kind of threat a poor Finns create to them ? Italians werent even at war when balance started shifting since Armistice of Cassibile. And despite your view that Germans were not destined to lose which I dont know on what you base ... they were, since September 3 1939 they were. Since the day war turned into an international conflict. 

 

Of course we wanted to hammer the japs back first-that was an emotional response on a national level.

It would be nice if you would actually stop using term "japs", considered by many still as an offensive. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by =LD=Hiromachi

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Not to mention that the "German threat" that wasn't destined to lose was being constantly dragged westwards by the Soviets after quite literally having every single one of their offensives fail one way or another. And it never really stood a chance of defeating the UK either, given how the Royal Navy dwarfed the Kriegsmarine and how the Luftwaffe was crushed in a war of attrition against the RAF.

 

Both Germany and Japan were strong small nations that thought they could take on big nations like the USA or the USSR and somehow win by dealing a fast blow. When you look at it, the whole thing was silly wishful thinking.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Lucas_From_Hell

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Lucas,

 

Even though we are arguing the same point, I'm not sure the Luftwaffe was crushed by the RAF. At least not early. More like they were held at bay by a shift in tactics and poor management by the bad guys. The Luftwaffe was plenty strong through 43-44 and didn't really break until late '44, or so, by most accounts.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It remained a strong fighting force indeed, but it never recovered from that in terms of numbers and experience. In other words, while it didn't break in 1940, one can say it was set up for defeat there and then because the Luftwaffe as it remained was never able to take on a major enemy for a prolonged period of time. If you look at operations after that they were flying mostly defensively by intercepting the RAF and later the USAAF, and in the East they gradually were forced to use smaller formations and fly conservatively as well. Anyhow, here we are debating the Luftwaffe in the Pacific thread

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Sorry, I'm a Luftie.............................

[Feathered_IV]

Back on topic.... BoS physics would certainly make for some pretty impressive carrier landings.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I'd love to take off on the Big E in VF-10 and go down some Zeke's and Val's.

Edited March 8, 2016 by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76

[TWC_Ace]

If they ever introdice Zero fighter (or P47 and Spitfire) I will personally buy 2 copies of the game...and thats alot for my wallet...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Back on topic.... BoS physics would certainly make for some pretty impressive carrier landings.

How am I the only one to upvote you on this?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

+1 from me as well

 

Sea is one thing though, other thing are ships. Those would look marvelous I bet :

Edited March 8, 2016 by =LD=Hiromachi

[BlitzPig_EL]

Back on topic.... BoS physics would certainly make for some pretty impressive carrier landings.

 

 

Yeah, bouncing 50ft. off the deck if you are 5mph over minimum speed, then going into an immediate ground loop over the side before the hook can even get close to the wire, sounds like a really good time.

 

Lots of changes to the ground handling calculations in game engine are going to be needed before they even think of adding an aircraft carrier.

 

I'll stick to my Army aircraft flying off Henderson, thanks...

[VBF-12_Stele]

Back on topic.... BoS physics would certainly make for some pretty impressive carrier landings.

 

I would absolutely love a PTO planeset with the current BOS physics. There were a lot of things I could get away with in IL-46 with the P-40 while flying on ZvW server that I can't really do in BOS. The Zero was a nasty opponent for the early planeset, and I bet it would really shine in the new flight model physics.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Zero's v Wildcats and carrier ops. Mmmhhhmmmm!!!!

[P51DFuck_Ktm]

I like this idea but it has to many planes they should p47 thunderbolt, b17, p51c, sbd dauntless, tbd devastator, pby catalina, b25 etc.. so many damn  planes But I love that idea

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In time my impatient friend, in time.

[352nd_Wheels]

I've flown the old IL2 a lot recently

Same here.

 

I might even try

 

Meh, radial engine does not fit that one. It's true beauty was with inline :

 

The one at Planes of Fame in LuseKofte image started life as an inline version. The engine was long gone so they put a P&W radial on it instead since there were both an inline and radial version of the plane. The inline had problems so the IJN reverted back to radials which were more reliable.

 

 

Wheels

Edited March 24, 2016 by wheelsup_cavu

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

Shiden Kai documentary with subtitles. 

[352nd_Wheels]

Enjoyed the video Hiromachi.

 

 

Wheels