Nieuport 28 FM review impressions

[BMA_Hellbender]

I can't believe I'm writing these words after 15 years.

 

Anyway, I'll keep it short as I don't have a lot of time right now. All I will say is that there's definite improvement over what we had before.

 

In simple terms, with 20l of fuel and no ammo, at sea level she's gone from a best rate of turn of 11s at ~140km/h to 10s at ~120km/h. In other words: faster turn rate and smaller turn radius than before, but still worse than the Albatros D.Va which has a turn of 9s at ~110km/h.

 

The N28's improved climb is quite impressive, so you can absolutely hold your own against a vanilla D.VII in a climbing turn, which you couldn't do before. Overall you're still better off in a Dolphin, which has worse climb but is just the better dogfighter all-round. For now I'd rank the N28 just below the Snipe. Encounters with a D.VIIF are best to be avoided, and you're probably marginally better off in a Hanriot by virtue of its better turn rate -- though visibility and firepower are obviously much better in the N28. I'm not surprised, and I wouldn't expect the N28 to fare any better against the D.VIIF than it currently does. From the Dr.I it can just fly away.

 

To conclude: THANK YOU, this is pretty much what I had hoped for.

 

Finally: it's really, really time that the climb, speed and turn of the Alb D.II, D.III, D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa got looked at. Please not another 15 years.

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by =IRFC=Hellbent

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Thanks, devs! The new N28 is lovely.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

Finally: it's really, really time that the climb, speed and turn of the Alb D.II, D.III, D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa got looked at. Please not another 15 years.

 

Yes, all those are going to require a deeper dive into seeing what exactly needs to be fixed. Just not enough time for this update to work on them.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, all those are going to require a deeper dive into seeing what exactly needs to be fixed. Just not enough time for this update to work on them.

Kinda leaving the door open to future refinements there @LukeFF?  Is that intentional,  or am reading something into it that's just not there?

Edited November 20, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[PatrickAWlson]

37 minutes ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Kinda leaving the door open to future refinements there @LukeFF?  Is that intentional,  or am reading something into it that's just not there?

 

They have been leaving the door open for further refinements for 15 years  

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Kinda leaving the door open to future refinements there @LukeFF?  Is that intentional,  or am reading something into it that's just not there?

 

No, there is always the possibility more will be looked at, but it just depends on how much time can be spared in between coding the FMs for all the new planes for Korea and the remaining aircraft being built for the WWII side.

[Flashy]

7 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

I can't believe I'm writing these words after 15 years.

 

Anyway, I'll keep it short as I don't have a lot of time right now. All I will say is that there's definite improvement over what we had before.

 

In simple terms, with 20l of fuel and no ammo, at sea level she's gone from a best rate of turn of 11s at ~140km/h to 10s at ~120km/h. In other words: faster turn rate and smaller turn radius than before, but still worse than the Albatros D.Va which has a turn of 9s at ~110km/h.

 

The N28's improved climb is quite impressive, so you can absolutely hold your own against a vanilla D.VII in a climbing turn, which you couldn't do before. Overall you're still better off in a Dolphin, which has worse climb but is just the better dogfighter all-round. For now I'd rank the N28 just below the Snipe. Encounters with a D.VIIF are best to be avoided, and you're probably marginally better off in a Hanriot by virtue of its better turn rate -- though visibility and firepower are obviously much better in the N28. I'm not surprised, and I wouldn't expect the N28 to fare any better against the D.VIIF than it currently does. From the Dr.I it can just fly away.

 

To conclude: THANK YOU, this is pretty much what I had hoped for.

 

Finally: it's really, really time that the climb, speed and turn of the Alb D.II, D.III, D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa got looked at. Please not another 15 years.

 

Sounds great Bender! Finally some good news on the N28 front! How does it compare to the N17? Does it actually feel like a Nieuport now? I agree we cant really compare it to the albatrosses because of the suspiciously good performance they have in game, but it sounds like its a closer match to its historical counterpart now?

[Regingrave-]

Thank you guys for your patience!
We actually had a chance to look at them for a week or so, but diving deeper into the problem we've understood that it would require a longer timeframe than we had at the moment. So, not this patch, yet nor another 15 years. 🙂

[BMA_Hellbender]

7 hours ago, Flashy said:

Sounds great Bender! Finally some good news on the N28 front! How does it compare to the N17? Does it actually feel like a Nieuport now? I agree we cant really compare it to the albatrosses because of the suspiciously good performance they have in game, but it sounds like its a closer match to its historical counterpart now?

It feels more like a Nieuport, for sure. The N28 is very much its own thing, but it ticks all the boxes compared to both the SPAD XIII and the Nieuport 17, especially when pitched against the Fokker D.VII. It does have a drastically different elongated design compared to the N17, and it has those thin SPAD wings, which gives it speed and allows it to dive and climb remarkably well.

 

The Hanriot HD.1 will always remain the true successor to the N17 and the closest thing to a “French Camel”. For 1v1 scenarios you’re better off in one of those, or in a SPAD, which makes sense as you can drive a single supreme advantage home. I have a few more nitpicks about the N28’s FM… None of them matter. The fact that I now have nitpicks rather than want to pretend it doesn’t exist is the point I wanted us to reach all along. Again: thank you!

 

As @LukeFF confirms, the focus should really shift to the Albs’ (and Pfalz D.IIIa’s) general performance. They're too slow and too manoeuvrable and likely the source of many remaining frustrations for both Entente and Central flyers.

 

EDIT: Thank you @Regingrave!

 

Edited November 20, 2024 by =IRFC=Hellbent

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

1 hour ago, Regingrave said:

Thank you guys for your patience!
We actually had a chance to look at them for a week or so, but diving deeper into the problem we've understood that it would require a longer timeframe than we had at the moment. So, not this patch, yet nor another 15 years. 🙂

Best news I've heard in quite a while.  Thanks!  Very glad to hear that review and refinements will continue.   

[Zooropa_Fly]

So does he mean 16-20 years then ?

[Dr1falcon500]

Still tasty Fokker fodder

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

17 hours ago, Regingrave said:

Thank you guys for your patience!
We actually had a chance to look at them for a week or so, but diving deeper into the problem we've understood that it would require a longer timeframe than we had at the moment. So, not this patch, yet nor another 15 years. 🙂

 

I wonder what is supposed to be wrong with Albatrosses and Pfalz FMs. Just for my knowledge, someone can list the supposed performances to be fixed? Thank you

[No.23_Starling]

50 minutes ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

 

I wonder what is supposed to be wrong with Albatrosses and Pfalz FMs. Just for my knowledge, someone can list the supposed performances to be fixed? Thank you

Have a read of this:

 

If you want a deeper engineering and scientific explanation then I’d recommend buying @Holtzauge’s book, providing you have some basic knowledge of physics and engineering.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

23 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

Finally: it's really, really time that the climb, speed and turn of the Alb D.II, D.III, D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa got looked at. Please not another 15 years.

 

 

Dont forget borked FFB on Gotha, RE8, N17 and Hanriot.

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Don't forget that Dikkebus Lake near Ypres isn't modeled.

[No.23_Starling]

On 11/20/2024 at 3:12 PM, Regingrave said:

Thank you guys for your patience!
We actually had a chance to look at them for a week or so, but diving deeper into the problem we've understood that it would require a longer timeframe than we had at the moment. So, not this patch, yet nor another 15 years. 🙂

 

Amazing news! Looking back at the benchmarking work to the modelling from @Holtzauge the N28 was the first outlier which has now been addressed.

 

As per earlier in the thread the next two major outliers were:

 

1. Alb DVa (likely DIII + DII) and Pfalz DIIIa: both turning too quickly but too slow and not climbing at expected FPM. The DIIIa was 21kph slower than expected at sea level

2. Dr1, Tripe, and SPAD XIII: both too slow at sea level at 15kph, 12kph, and 11kph respectively 

 

Addressing these FMs above would make an enormous difference.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by US103_Rummell

[Red_Von_Hammer]

Honestly I'd given up hope completely, so this is a welcome change (though unacceptably late, I can't shuffle that under the rug).
I hope the other outliers (already detailed by far wiser heads than me) will receive revisions.
Meanwhile, the N28 at least stands more of a fighting chance.
Much appreciated 🙂

[LufberyJAA]

I just got the patch last night, and have been flying the N-28 for a while now. I really like the changes!

 

Thank you.