Discussion of Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs Announcement

[major_setback]

12 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Plane moving on the ground looks bad, physics is odd same as in the original CLOD, yes Typhoon model must be WIP looks like a plastic toy.

 

In the video: That is a WiP skin made by the 3D modeller.

The skins will look like the ones in the screenshot in the link below.

There are 20 custom skins already made, with individual nose art / emblems (spread over the two variants), and maybe more to come. No doubt you will see more screenshots and videos soon.

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2023/09/22/team-fusion-announces-fortresses-and-focke-wulfs/

 

.

[Koziolek]

16 hours ago, deathmisser said:

Wait so they are more than one map ? ? 

Probably not even one, at least not for Fortresses & FW. . As I understand it will be the same map as in BoB with just added new things like coastal batteries

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, Koziolek said:

As I understand it will be the same map as in BoB with just added new things like coastal batteries

 

 

"as in BoB"... revealing slip of the keyboard... ?

 

No worries, you're welcome Koziolek.

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

I'll redo this with B17's when it comes out ?

 

 

[Enceladus828]

15 hours ago, Tonester said:

By the time this comes out, based on TF track record, the Microprose B17 sims will be out, which will render Dieppe dead in the water.

The next GB installment will also have been announced and delivered, Combat Pilot will be out, and aliens will have arrived on mass and will probably be making their own flight sims featuring gravity drives and wormholes. Oh and Jesus will be back with avengence and the rapture will be looming large…and we will get the VU/VR update a week before Dieppe…all jokes aside, they should release planes in dribs and drabs like GB does…with a preorder system…at least this will put some money in the kitty…and will generate some interest

I feel you’re being extreme here

 

1. People will really enjoy Dieppe because of the B-17 and we’re getting a lot more planes than simply a B-17, plus there are other areas and timeframes like Battle of Britain and North Africa.

 

2. I don’t know where things are at with that in regards to aircraft and map development but I’d say it would be released sometime in 2025, after Dieppe is released. I don’t think Combat Pilot will be out until late 2025. The aircraft we didn’t see in the Dieppe video are planes which are variants of other aircraft already in the game, thus easier to make.

 

3. Every game has delays with adding new features and timelines the developers thought something would come out didn’t. Looks like TFS should never put a release date on anything anymore. The fact they said Dieppe would be out in the last 6 months of 2024 (as early as June 2024) shows they have confidence on this.

 

4. That’s just how their business model works, to alter it to include Pre-Order, at least right now, may cause unnecessary delays to the installment. Maybe in the future but not now.

[56RAF_Stickz]

12 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

-  The 'Channel Dash'/'Operation Cerberus' will provide an opportunity for something unusual for Northwest Europe, Naval Escort and Naval Strikes.

I really hope you are a making a swordfish at some point then, which is almost synomous with this operation for the navy heroes that flew them against it

[BENKOE]

@Buzzsaw: Thanks for the update. How many seats in the B17 can be "manned" in total? Will the seats be usable by different players in multiplayer mode?

 

11 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

We will make the Rear, Top, and Ball turrets playable.  In addition the .50 caliber MG's in the Bombardier's nose cabin will also be playable.  (as well as the Norden bombsight)

 

We are not making the Waist gunner positions playable for two reasons... 1) these positions were the least accurate or effective of any in the aircraft, most players would not choose them, (2) to model them would require a huge amount of time on the part of our 3D team, not worthwhile when you consider they could be modeling the cockpit of another aircraft in less time.  3) these positions would also require we create some complex animations to represent the fact there are two gunners and each would be moving around and sighting their weapon.  If two players were manning both positions, then animations would be required to follow the player movements. 

 

Of course the Waist positions will be active, and visible in the external model, but controlled by the AI.

 

We won't be making the Radio and Navigator's positions playable either... again, in game terms these positions are not necessary... and these compartments are complex, would require a lot of 3D work and animations for the two crew members would be required.

[MiGCap]

11 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Things have changed quite a bit since the first version... I would still recommend you look at the Guide.  ?

 

Will do. Used to manuals. 

[Mysticpuma]

3 hours ago, BENKOE said:

@Buzzsaw: Thanks for the update. How many seats in the B17 can be "manned" in total? Will the seats be usable by different players in multiplayer mode?

 

From his previous reply :

Pilot seat

Bombardier (Norden Bombsight and guns from the same position) 

Top Turret

Ball Turret

Rear Turret

 

So 5 total, which if it can support a full multi crew could be pretty cool if a mission could be set up with 24 bombers, fully manned, with an Ai escorts, taking on a target covered by flak and Ai enemy aircraft, all in VR!! 

 

Realistically you could have a combat box of 8 aircraft fully manned in an Ai bomber stream, 40 friendly escorts weaving high above and 40 enemy aircraft trying to attack. 

Ultimately., as long as there is room to take off, climb to altitude, reach a target and return... this could be exceptional. 

 

The much needed draw distance update will be important for targeting. 

 

There has been very little news from Microprose so who knows how long there release will be...but if TFS can get this out before the end of 2024, it could be a game changer. 

That's a lot of work and beta testing though in a short time? Getting VR stable is the must fix issue, as has been pointed out, random crashes after 20-30.minutes flying, it's a bug that needs crushing! 

 

The Ai needs to be dealt with though. The aircraft need to fly like a combat box and not wobble and crash into each other. 

The damage model needs to be looked at to make sure (like the release video) wings don't just instantly fall off when a few hits are made. The B17 was very rugged when it came to survivability. 

 

There is a lot to like about the update, hopefully they can finally hit a deadline and get this out before the end of 2024 ?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[Mysticpuma]

A few interesting points raised by Blademeister here:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4636026/re-fortresses-and-focke-wulfs-announcement#Post4636026

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

16 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

A few interesting points raised by Blademeister here:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4636026/re-fortresses-and-focke-wulfs-announcement#Post4636026

 

I'll just put my pink opaque glasses on and pretend nothing of it is true and that is has never been mentioned anywhere. 

 

That is probably just one individual's opinions and do not correlate to reality whatsoever. 

 

(sarcasm, obviously) 

 

But yeah... He - along with several others - raises valid points. 

[No.54_Reddog]

It must be a different blade, it's sharp and to the point, and most shockingly saying things which I've been saying for years and as we all know I'm wrong in everything according to ours ?

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

 

I'll just put my pink opaque glasses on and pretend nothing of it is true and that is has never been mentioned anywhere. 

Yeah, given at how much flak TFS gets whenever they miss a deadline… even by a week… I don’t think they would give a release date — at best June 1st, at worst December 31st 2024 — unless they were certain it… and the B-17… would be released then.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, Enceladus said:

Yeah, given at how much flak TFS gets whenever they miss a deadline… even by a week… I don’t think they would give a release date — at best June 1st, at worst December 31st 2024 — unless they were certain it… and the B-17… would be released then.

 

 

An upvote for you Enceladus, as you are mainly right. But dealing with release dates, who knwos when F&FW will be effectively released? We know TFS' will, not what really will happen. New delays may occur, who knows.

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Pilot seat

Bombardier (Norden Bombsight and nose turret from the same position) 

Top Turret

Ball Turret

Rear Turret

 

 

Oh, by the way Puma, not really a "nose turret", but the two .50 cal M2 Brownings that are fitted on articulated mounts through the nose of the bomber.

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

@343KKT_Kintaro fixed

[DD_Arthur]

Well good luck to Team Fusion on the timeline. ?

Yes, the ‘promo’ video is extremely rough but it’s solid info nonetheless.
I think this expansion is a good, realistic idea.

Leveraging the assets they already have has been suggested by everyone and their dog for the last ten years.

 

 

[BOO]

The tiffy screenshot looks stunning. 
 

The video needs to be deleted. I really think it does more harm than good. 

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

The TF 6.0 stated timeline is useful for promotional purposes. You know the standard disclaimer is still operative: staffing is part-time. RL invariably intervenes. The main problem is that there is nothing to foster interest in Blitz in the meantime. All that's going to be available for at least the next two years is what was made available in August 2020.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

The tiffy screenshot looks stunning. 
 

The video needs to be deleted. I really think it does more harm than good. 

 

 

Hopefully the Typhoon will come to the Beta testers and I'll have a chance put some video together of it ?

[Lorena_Scout]

18 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Things have changed quite a bit since the first version... I would still recommend you look at the Guide.  ?

The AI will control the Waist positions.  Same as the Wellington IC versions.

 

Please tell me, it will be possible to multi-crew those big birds? VR and multi-crew, such a dream and horror in a sim. 

4-5 per plane?

 

Also, how to add an vivox to the game? or at least some kind of "Warn a friend system"  i think was like war birds i supposed. that you have a hotkey that select the friendly on your field of view and alerts about danger close. (makes sense?)

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Lorena_Scout

[5th_Barone]

22 hours ago, 5th_Barone said:

Question: since we won't get tropical version of the Dieppe plane set (atm at least).

What if players use these planes on Tobruk map.

Is the sand/desert damaging engine simulated? Or is it not?

Because if it's the second choice having the tropical version it's just for accuracy but in the meantime servers could allow the Dieppe plane to be used on Tobruk map.

Thanks in advance

Hey @Buzzsaw any hints in this?

Tks

[PO_Baldrick]

12 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The TF 6.0 stated timeline is useful for promotional purposes. You know the standard disclaimer is still operative: staffing is part-time. RL invariably intervenes. The main problem is that there is nothing to foster interest in Blitz in the meantime. All that's going to be available for at least the next two years is what was made available in August 2020.

I guess the question is who are TF/Fulqrum promoting to?

 

If the strategy is to develop the core for several years and add further content to make it more attractive for new purchases then fostering interest in the meantime is of little value. Sure you may add small numbers who buy into the future plans but the sim community isn't renowned for its patience and TF end up fielding a zillion questions over and over about something that won't be available for a year or more, or worse new customers become disgruntled and negative on social media.

 

I would argue the announcement is more to let the community know they are still alive and busy working on the product. This isn't some big marketing push to foster interest for sales.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

34 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

I guess the question is who are TF/Fulqrum promoting to?

 

If the strategy is to develop the core for several years and add further content to make it more attractive for new purchases then fostering interest in the meantime is of little value. Sure you may add small numbers who buy into the future plans but the sim community isn't renowned for its patience and TF end up fielding a zillion questions over and over about something that won't be available for a year or more, or worse new customers become disgruntled and negative on social media.

 

I would argue the announcement is more to let the community know they are still alive and busy working on the product. This isn't some big marketing push to foster interest for sales.

 

So the pre-announced  kick-off announcement is so sad as to cause you to deny it to be a promotional video ?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[PO_Baldrick]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

So the pre-announced  kick-off announcement is so sad as to cause you to deny it to be a promotional video ?

I literally used the word promoting so I think that was a pretty rubbish denial! ?

[Dagwoodyt]

6 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

fostering interest in the meantime is of little value.

meantime = euphemism for several years?

[No.54_Reddog]

On 9/23/2023 at 9:04 AM, No.54_Reddog said:

Is the dieppe map the same size as the existing channel map? Apart from some new objects is there anything different between it and the channel map?

 

Anyone?

[Mysticpuma]

2 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Anyone?

And can (after the complete rebuild) vehicles now cross bridges? 

[Dagwoodyt]

20 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

And can (after the complete rebuild) vehicles now cross bridges? 

While we're at it: if beta testers assert that the Blitz VR implementation is superior to those of GB and DCS, then why unwilling to provide public beta access? I recall having been immediately challenged upon suggesting there might never be an open/public beta. A public beta would provide VU "proof of life", whether the user has a VR hmd or not. Otherwise, after two years of repetitive, unfulfilled promises to deliver the VU the upshot is that there will very possibly be several more years of waiting without any tangible playability upgrades since the 2020 DW-T release.

[BOO]

7 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

While we're at it: if beta testers assert that the Blitz VR implementation is superior to those of GB and DCS, then why unwilling to provide public beta access? I recall having been immediately challenged upon suggesting there might never be an open/public beta. A public beta would provide VU "proof of life", whether the user has a VR hmd or not. Otherwise, after two years of repetitive, unfulfilled promises to deliver the VU the upshot is that there will very possibly be several more years of waiting without any tangible playability upgrades since the 2020 DW-T release.

I think im right but you are a VR user are you not? Have you applied to take part in the beta. Seems the only pre-requisite to  is owning one. 

 

Whether or not yu are or have, a few occasions were the beta was opened fully to all may do as yu say and increase enthusuam. Afterall not evertione wants to be tired in with NDR and all the other messing about. But it may also fill a server full of non VR users and players who dont know there arse from their elbow, possibly defeating the object. 

[BOO]

@Riley May I add to the clamour for imformation on the map itself. One of the least seductive aspects of Blitz was the post blitz look of channel map with its removed bridges,  roads carving unconvingly through the middle of fields and those odd patches of bright colours (a throw back to the original game) not to mention the over abundance of windmills and absence of oasthouses in kent.  

 

Im really hoping Dieppe has more to offer than some new buildings and trees dumped on the existing map. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by BOO

[Mysticpuma]

I have asked the following on the Beta forums:

 

Suggesting giving access to the larger VR community, an "Open Beta" weekend or week?

 

Simply put, why not allow players a free weekend playing the Beta. Ask them to add crash logging and send in any reports.
They know it's a beta, they know it isn't finished, but damn it would certainly raise the profile.

So many threads I read saying "won't play until VR is enabled". Well why not let the hundreds (thousands) of players have the chance to see that VR is working BUT it is a beta and has fixes to be done for stability.
The community aren't naive any more, and those with VR certainly will have a great understanding of their computers and settings.

An open Beta (even for a limited time) to get many more eyes and reports of VR bugs and fixes can only be beneficial to the coders. Not forgetting, with so many VR players out there on multiple other Sims, some may see or know the reasons for some crashes with knowledge of fixes/workarounds that can be applied.

My question would be, what is there to lose by showing players (and experienced players) that VR does work and will be available.

Give it a month of promotions, letting them know it will be an open beta on 'x' weekend. This lets it have time for the news to spread.

Once the weekend is over, get lots of feedback, crash logs and ideas on how to fix them.


Surely if the community can see for themselves that there is a future for them (the VR players), word of mouth will spread and interest grow far more quickly than the few testers in here on a very stagnant forum?

They will know that Speedtree is to be updated, they will know Truesky is yet to be finished.....but let's get those players sitting on the fence, down off that fence and into our play area?


Surely worth considering?

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't see any reason why the team would be in anything other than a win-win situation?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Quite a bomb dropped there with Fortresses and Focke-Wulfs ? Lot of planes I will test albeit 110 is always number one, FW190A being close  Now that Varjo dropped their price of Aero to 990USD/EUR the VR option is even more tantalizing for me. And this from a person who is not that much interested in it as 2D with a good tracker has been enough so far. Best of luck to TFS with the V6! 

 

As of ideas tossed around. MP´s idea of even a limited time Open Beta access would bring in a ton of feedback and players, but also whinery and crybabies, sadly. Always some people not being happy with it. Even it would display OPEN BETA / WIP with cat sized letters on screen while playing. Also how much manpower does TFS have to sift through all the logs/feedback? How many OB would be good between build changes? List goes on. But an idea worth considering though and would not mind testing the sim, even in 2D..Oh the wait! ?

 

TL;DR Great news and good luck to TFS!

[Feldgrun]

3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Suggesting giving access to the larger VR community, an "Open Beta" weekend or week?

 

Great idea, but I wonder if it would crash the game, and would then be a bad experience for everyone.

[Mysticpuma]

4 minutes ago, Feldgrun said:

 

Great idea, but I wonder if it would crash the game, and would then be a bad experience for everyone.

Isn't that what a Beta is for? I mean why not large scale beta test it now, so it can be fixed and ready for December 2024, rather than spend months getting all the content in, then beta test it and find it's going to take another 6-months to fix?

Find the issues early and then focus can be placed on them being corrected and the game finally releasing when it is due?

Edited September 25, 2023 by Mysticpuma

[PO_Baldrick]

40 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Isn't that what a Beta is for?

 

If you want to test server capacity for large scale events then yes. If you are testing core functionality than opening the testing process to the user base is a recipe for disaster IMHO. It is what you have testers who understand the process for.

[Dagwoodyt]

7 hours ago, BOO said:

I think im right but you are a VR user are you not? Have you applied to take part in the beta. Seems the only pre-requisite to  is owning one. 

 

Whether or not yu are or have, a few occasions were the beta was opened fully to all may do as yu say and increase enthusuam. Afterall not evertione wants to be tired in with NDR and all the other messing about. But it may also fill a server full of non VR users and players who dont know there arse from their elbow, possibly defeating the object. 

I made a decision not to apply for the beta when it was first announced. I have no regrets. I have read posts from some who did apply and waited months without a resolution. What TFS is doing with the TF 6.0 promotion is to stack a "carrot" onto its' unfulfilled VU commitment. Though TFS says second half of 2024 for TF 6.0 release, they have an established track record of miscalculation by multiple years. Anyway, in the next breath they will remind everyone that their due date is not written in "stone". They will also add that they have to contend with "real life" situations that compromise their opportunities to work on TF 6.0. So what good is the TF 6.0 timeline? The B17 alone could represent a huge resource drain. What does TFS offer in the meantime if they will not provide every Blitz owner access to their beta that is claimed to outshine GB and DCS VR implementations? I have dealt with CloD quirks since its' first release. Why would I now be incapable of accepting limitations of the VU beta?

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[PO_Baldrick]

50 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

What does TFS offer in the meantime if they will not provide every Blitz owner access to their beta that is claimed to outshine GB and DCS VR implementations?

 

I am not sure why we would expect them to offer anything. I think we have got so wrapped up in drip feeds of DLCs with certain games we forget that significant updates to games take most developers time measured in many years. In the olden days we would just wait and not have access to developers via forums!

 

If we get bored of a game then the gaps get filled in the meantime because we have multiple vendors, just like in the nineties for sim racing fans when the four year gaps between the Microprose Grand Prix series (1992, 1996 & 2000) were plugged with the Indycar series, Grand Prix Legends and others

 

They were good old times but just like back then it isn't like we are short now of decent alternatives. This isn't a monogamous relationship. We may all hope the next release of CloD will be what our dreams are made of but it isn't worth growing old drumming fingers on desks waiting for it

[Lord_Pyro]

A few posts earlier buzz stated, that there is an vr issue leading to crashing the game after 10 to 20 mins of flying. 

 

They are positive to find that bug eventually but i too can understand the hesitation to release it in that state to the public.

20min is next to nothing in a flight sim...

 

So as internal beta yes, for trying to narrow the issue down. But not a widespread release. It would hurt the project massively.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

As he states in his post, the crash cause seem difficult to find. It appears to be quite random. 

 

I 2D it works like non-beta. Very stable. As soon as you switch to VR you can crash right away after starting the mission of after say 3 hours of play. Or anything in between with no noticeable pattern (for the user at least). 

I've sent dozens of crash reports to TFS, so have others, but every time they add or improve something it seems the hunt for the crash bug continues. 

 

 

For reference, when I was recording the videos posted on TFS' YT channel last year some were cut short by crashes so I had to restart (they were all made live with no cuts). But in other instances I could go on an on testing stuff, recording  and flying full campaign missions from the Oden's dynamic mission generator one after the other, single missions or quick missions without problems. 

 

 

I believe this to be the sole reason why an open beta hasn't been done yet.