Damn, almost thought this was fixed in 5.002...

[Sybreed]

So, as some people may know, I've been advocating for the past 3 years to change the AI routine so that ground attack missions don't end up with your entire squad destroying AA units and ignoring the actual mission target.

 

With 5.002 saying they improved AI ground attack, I had my hopes up that they changed that routine.

 

Alas, after doing 2 tests, the routine is still the same and AI will focus AA units if they are close to the actual target.

 

Case in point, mission 1, artillery attack (Kuban campaign, FW-190A5 squad)

 

 

As you can see, AI squadmates actually targeted the artillery because only 1 AA unit was close (which was destroyed by the squad leader). The rest of the squad did its job. Might be an improvement there? I remember that in the past, your entire flight would drop their bombs on a single AA if it existed.

 

Next mission was a river crossing mission in which you need to bomb a ponton bridge.

 

 

 

Annnnnd that's what I feared. As soon as the squadmates saw AA units, they ignored the target, leaving the player to do the entire work. In short, AA are laser pointers and your squadmates are cats that go crazy when they see them.

 

So your actual experience doing ground attack scenarios will entirely depend on if AA units are on the objective or not, and they pretty much always are. Is this game breaking? Not really. But, in my case, I just find this so immersion breaking for a sim, it is a bit annoying that after all these years, it still isn't fixed even though it's been reported so often by me and other people.

[Deicide]

I'm commenting to sub to this. I agree fully with what you said. I'm an SP only player so AI is a big thing to me as well. I would like to mention I did remember seeing something mentioned (most likely a player not a dev) about the old style from 1946 that was more detail radio commands. But I don't even know if that would help this situation or anything.

[Sybreed]

9 minutes ago, Deicide said:

I'm commenting to sub to this. I agree fully with what you said. I'm an SP only player so AI is a big thing to me as well. I would like to mention I did remember seeing something mentioned (most likely a player not a dev) about the old style from 1946 that was more detail radio commands. But I don't even know if that would help this situation or anything.

Thank you, glad to see people still care for the single player aspect of il-2 which is so close to being excellent.

 

I think all they need to do is to reduce AA priority to AI. Would this break other things? Doubtful. 

 

The sad thing is, I would have bought the P47 campaign if not for this. I don't feel like having the entire US air force effort rest on my shoulders because my squad feels like a 20mm cannon is more important than a bridge. 

[Skycat1969]

I've played through the Hellhawks campaign several times and I don't remember this being a problem, even with the early missions where your section attacks an airfield. Later missions are a lot of shooting up vehicles and fixed infantry, with some dogfights thrown in.

[Sybreed]

57 minutes ago, Skycat1969 said:

I've played through the Hellhawks campaign several times and I don't remember this being a problem, even with the early missions where your section attacks an airfield. Later missions are a lot of shooting up vehicles and fixed infantry, with some dogfights thrown in.

 

Interesting. I think I remember the devs saying he avoided putting AA units near targets to avoid this issue. Might check out the campaign in that case. 

[Raptorattacker]

You gotta remember as well, if the AI were TOO good at their job then SP missions would be a little unrewarding to the player surely?
It must be a fine line between totally competent AI and at the same time leaving the player with some sort of reward,after all?

Just sayin'... what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander and even attempting to work that one out isn't a job I'd be comfortable with!!

 

[IckyATLAS]

5 hours ago, Skycat1969 said:

I've played through the Hellhawks campaign several times and I don't remember this being a problem, even with the early missions where your section attacks an airfield. Later missions are a lot of shooting up vehicles and fixed infantry, with some dogfights thrown in.

If you design your own mission, you can avoid that by setting the Priority to High and specify the attack only to the bridge, and free the pilots by changing priority only after the bridge is destroyed, so that they are free to attack other enemy targets. It is pretty simple to do but it is in the hands of the mission designers to do it.

In this particular case only high Priority may work, the other two won't do it. And the standard is Medium which in this case will not work because the pilots will defend themselves against the enemies. The Bridge will not attack the pilots even if it is a linked object with the enemy nationality (should be designed like that) because it is the AA guns that will attack the pilots and they will defend themselves against them. Once all enemies attacking the airplanes are destroyed and there is no more enemy attacking the pilots, they will turn to attack the initial bridge target but at this point they may be short of ammo.

 

 

[Sybreed]

6 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

You gotta remember as well, if the AI were TOO good at their job then SP missions would be a little unrewarding to the player surely?
It must be a fine line between totally competent AI and at the same time leaving the player with some sort of reward,after all?

Just sayin'... what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander and even attempting to work that one out isn't a job I'd be comfortable with!!

 

 

There's enough to bomb in most missions for everyone... if not the bridge, there was a bunch of tanks stuck together that made for a very juicy target. Most missions have a lot of target of opportunities that I honestly don't mind going for if the objective is already destroyed.

 

6 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

If you design your own mission, you can avoid that by setting the Priority to High and specify the attack only to the bridge, and free the pilots by changing priority only after the bridge is destroyed, so that they are free to attack other enemy targets. It is pretty simple to do but it is in the hands of the mission designers to do it.

In this particular case only high Priority may work, the other two won't do it. And the standard is Medium which in this case will not work because the pilots will defend themselves against the enemies. The Bridge will not attack the pilots even if it is a linked object with the enemy nationality (should be designed like that) because it is the AA guns that will attack the pilots and they will defend themselves against them. Once all enemies attacking the airplanes are destroyed and there is no more enemy attacking the pilots, they will turn to attack the initial bridge target but at this point they may be short of ammo.

 

 

 

Some of what you explained was how the AI was programmed before. They changed it a year ago or so I believe. Before, your squad would drop their bombs and do strafing runs, which was what I actually expected from WW2 ground attack missions. But, because the AI would overfocus on AA and ignore the target, you would have scenarios where it would be impossible to complete the mission if you also missed the target.

For example: Take the same bridge mission as above. If I also miss the target (I did), my squadmates would spent all their ammo trying to destroy the bridge/attack the tanks. Making you a sitting duck over the target and you would have to wait something like 10 minutes for your squad to run out of ammo before you get a prompt to return to base.

 

What needed to happen was to change the priority to the mission objective to high. Instead, the devs did the opposite of what was needed to be done: They made so that as soon as 1 bomb is drop in the mission area, you would get the return to base prompt. No more strafing runs, less immersion.

 

IMO, they should revert what they did and change the priority to the mission objective, so you can start doing strafe runs again and the objective would still be destroyed.

 

I don't want to sound rude, but I feel like the devs took the lazy way out on this one.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sybreed

[Sybreed]

12 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

If you design your own mission, you can avoid that by setting the Priority to High and specify the attack only to the bridge, and free the pilots by changing priority only after the bridge is destroyed, so that they are free to attack other enemy targets. It is pretty simple to do but it is in the hands of the mission designers to do it.

In this particular case only high Priority may work, the other two won't do it. And the standard is Medium which in this case will not work because the pilots will defend themselves against the enemies. The Bridge will not attack the pilots even if it is a linked object with the enemy nationality (should be designed like that) because it is the AA guns that will attack the pilots and they will defend themselves against them. Once all enemies attacking the airplanes are destroyed and there is no more enemy attacking the pilots, they will turn to attack the initial bridge target but at this point they may be short of ammo.

 

 

 

@=FB=VikS

@-DED-Rapidus

 

Do you think the settings for all ground attack missions in career mode could be changed to what is described in this quote? That would make the single player so much better.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sybreed

[migmadmarine]

Interesting, I flew a career mission that was an escort attackers mission yesterday, and looking at the events log I was pleasantly surprised at the proportion of just regular trucks the AI hit in the target area compared to the number of triple A. I wonder if there might be some difference to how AI behave when they are not the player's flight, though a sample size of one ain't much to go off of...

[Boogdud]

I started a fresh campaign yesterday, one of my first missions was to bomb a railway station at the edge of a small town (in P-51Bs). We had an escort of spits with us and my flight only attacked the railway station with bombs, there were at least 3 AAA stations around the town that were gunning the flight on their run in and they ignored them. Made one pass, dropped bombs on the station and booked home immediately. I only got a gondola and a railway car because they smoked the station before I got to drop my bombs. 2 of the trailing mustangs didn't even drop their bombs on the station because it was already decimated. They all ignored the AAA and continued home with us with their bombs still intact. So, I guess there's some hope?

[Sybreed]

4 minutes ago, Boogdud said:

I started a fresh campaign yesterday, one of my first missions was to bomb a railway station at the edge of a small town (in P-51Bs). We had an escort of spits with us and my flight only attacked the railway station with bombs, there were at least 3 AAA stations around the town that were gunning the flight on their run in and they ignored them. Made one pass, dropped bombs on the station and booked home immediately. I only got a gondola and a railway car because they smoked the station before I got to drop my bombs. 2 of the trailing mustangs didn't even drop their bombs on the station because it was already decimated. They all ignored the AAA and continued home with us with their bombs still intact. So, I guess there's some hope?

 

If they are far enough away from the target they will ignore them. But, in most of the missions I've done, (see the new screenshots from my latest tests), they still overcommitted to AA.  In these 2 scenarios, AAA were right amongst the designated target. The 2 transports destroyed by 1 AI were so because they were right next to a AAA truck.

 

Keep going and you'll see what I mean. Unless, the devs decided to space out AA more in the latter maps than in Kuban, Stalingrad, etc.?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Sybreed

[CAFulcrum]

I noticed in QMB with ar234 naval attack missions that my wingman (not second element tho) would refuse to drop his bombs despite commands.  I'm assuming that's what's been fixed.

[Sybreed]

1 hour ago, CAFulcrum said:

I noticed in QMB with ar234 naval attack missions that my wingman (not second element tho) would refuse to drop his bombs despite commands.  I'm assuming that's what's been fixed.

Yes

[Dusty926]

1 hour ago, CAFulcrum said:

I noticed in QMB with ar234 naval attack missions that my wingman (not second element tho) would refuse to drop his bombs despite commands.  I'm assuming that's what's been fixed.

In my experience, this still happens unfortunately. I cannot get my Ar234 wingmates to attack ships whatsoever even post patch, in AQMB scenarios.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Dusty926

[Boogdud]

11 hours ago, Sybreed said:

 

Keep going and you'll see what I mean. Unless, the devs decided to space out AA more in the latter maps than in Kuban, Stalingrad, etc.?

 

 

Hard to say, though my new career that I was talking about was a Normandy campaign. I can tell you the AAA that mine ignored was very close to the objective (maybe 300 yards) and it was almost between them and the objective and they ignored it. I'll keep an eye on it. Wish I had seen this thread before the mission I would have saved a replay. I more thought it was strange that I had 2 of my flight actually keep their bombs all the way home and didn't use it on the AAA after the objective was already destroyed.

[IckyATLAS]

I think it is a difficult design issue after all for the mission developers. I had also these type of problems in my campaign and various missions.

The mission must not be too easy and if you do not participate actively, it must not be a success. After all it has to be a challenge.

Otherwise just wait and your wingmen will do whatever it takes and succeed the mission. Even if this has some reality here it is a game where you are the player, and you have to carry action, this means you must take risk and fight. In real wartime if you stay put the mission will be carried out, and if you are a leader and stay put that is not positive for you and your career as well as consequences for your leadership, that will be quickly taken by someone else.

And this is a very delicate balance to design in the sim.

[Sybreed]

4 hours ago, Boogdud said:

 

Hard to say, though my new career that I was talking about was a Normandy campaign. I can tell you the AAA that mine ignored was very close to the objective (maybe 300 yards) and it was almost between them and the objective and they ignored it. I'll keep an eye on it. Wish I had seen this thread before the mission I would have saved a replay. I more thought it was strange that I had 2 of my flight actually keep their bombs all the way home and didn't use it on the AAA after the objective was already destroyed.

Hey I wonder, what is your density setting at? Mine is always at dense, but maybe lowering would help? I always thought it only increased the number of enemy units and since me pc can handle it i just put it to the max. 

 

300 yards is a lot. In my tests, the AA were either right next to the target (as in, on top of it) or about a hundred yards away. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Sybreed

[Calos_01]

4 hours ago, Boogdud said:

Hard to say, though my new career that I was talking about was a Normandy campaign. I can tell you the AAA that mine ignored was very close to the objective (maybe 300 yards) and it was almost between them and the objective and they ignored it. I'll keep an eye on it. Wish I had seen this thread before the mission I would have saved a replay. I more thought it was strange that I had 2 of my flight actually keep their bombs all the way home and didn't use it on the AAA after the objective was already destroyed.

Yes, I have a quite similar experience (difficulty hard, density medium), my flight drops bombs to target (railway station or bridge (bridges if there´s another nearby) then goes home (P-47 or mustang). When in rocket typhoon, there are several passes, they are attacking railcars or trucks and AAA as well (but not as a priority target). In fact I´m happy with Normandy stock career, not only ground attack. 

[migmadmarine]

For the record the escort mission I referred to was in Moscow, and set to dense. 

[RyanR]

I kind of wonder if it's by design. A problem in the past with singular targets (like a bridge), is that when that target was destroyed, the AI was confused as to what to do with their remaining ordinance.

 

The big changes with the AI read to be specific to the radio commands in the release notes.

 

I'm usually a bit relieved to see the AI go after AAA for the really "hot" targets. At "high density" setting, some target areas seem surprisingly well defended compared to others.

 

-Ryan

[Sybreed]

22 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

For the record the escort mission I referred to was in Moscow, and set to dense. 

can't tell if being in the squad changes things. I'm currently doing some tests with density changes, just in case.

 

I don't think you can change frontline density in Advanced quick mission?

[Boogdud]

4 hours ago, Sybreed said:

Hey I wonder, what is your density setting at? Mine is always at dense, but maybe lowering would help? I always thought it only increased the number of enemy units and since me pc can handle it i just put it to the max. 

Yeah I just noticed the density was moderate. I don't have any problems with my system running it on the highest setting (5900x/6900xt), I think I just left it on default because I wanted to see what the new career was like and forgot to even check.

[Sybreed]

2 minutes ago, Boogdud said:

Yeah I just noticed the density was moderate. I don't have any problems with my system running it on the highest setting (5900x/6900xt), I think I just left it on default because I wanted to see what the new career was like and forgot to even check.

Okay. I'll hope to get another river crossing soon and put it to medium and see what happens. 

 

[Sybreed]

Something silly I just encountered:

 

If you get intercepted before reaching the target and your squad jettison their bombs and you do as well, you won't be able to get a return to base prompt by attacking the target, even if the target is soft and can be taken out by your guns.

 

Case in point, I was doing an airfield attack, we got jumped by soviet planes, we jettisoned our bomb. Then, we went to the airfield, but because no one had bombs, we never had the mission accomplished prompt, even if we destroyed the 4 airplanes that are the target for that particular mission.

 

This really needs to change... this is ridiculous.

[Sybreed]

Exhibit A:

 

 

 

 

 

Exhibit B:

 

 

[=FB=VikS]

12 hours ago, Sybreed said:

Something silly I just encountered:

 

If you get intercepted before reaching the target and your squad jettison their bombs and you do as well, you won't be able to get a return to base prompt by attacking the target, even if the target is soft and can be taken out by your guns.

 

Case in point, I was doing an airfield attack, we got jumped by soviet planes, we jettisoned our bomb. Then, we went to the airfield, but because no one had bombs, we never had the mission accomplished prompt, even if we destroyed the 4 airplanes that are the target for that particular mission.

 

This really needs to change... this is ridiculous.

 

how much time you spent over target? as for this case - there is a safety timer of 11 minutes, also target counter - of x20, so there should be two ways to complete it in case of entering target area without bombs:

- get 20 targets - sucess and rtb waypoint instantly;

- get any of targets at target airfield, then after 11 minutes - sucess and rtb waypoint.

 

In case if its not - then please drop me the mission file (its in the data\Missions\ folder named "_gen.Mission") - i will check it.

[Sybreed]

6 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

 

how much time you spent over target? as for this case - there is a safety timer of 11 minutes, also target counter - of x20, so there should be two ways to complete it in case of entering target area without bombs:

- get 20 targets - sucess and rtb waypoint instantly;

- get any of targets at target airfield, then after 11 minutes - sucess and rtb waypoint.

 

In case if its not - then please drop me the mission file (its in the data\Missions\ folder named "_gen.Mission") - i will check it.

 

This is in video Exhibit A, so I spent around 2 minutes at the airfield before we got jumped by russian aircrafts and only I survived. I destroyed the 4 stacked airplanes and my teammates destroyed, you guessed it, 3 AA units, so that's 7 in total. I'm sure the criterias you just mentionned would have worked, I just couldn't get there before our squad was destroyed.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 5:11 AM, IckyATLAS said:

If you design your own mission, you can avoid that by setting the Priority to High and specify the attack only to the bridge, and free the pilots by changing priority only after the bridge is destroyed, so that they are free to attack other enemy targets. It is pretty simple to do but it is in the hands of the mission designers to do it.

In this particular case only high Priority may work, the other two won't do it. And the standard is Medium which in this case will not work because the pilots will defend themselves against the enemies. The Bridge will not attack the pilots even if it is a linked object with the enemy nationality (should be designed like that) because it is the AA guns that will attack the pilots and they will defend themselves against them. Once all enemies attacking the airplanes are destroyed and there is no more enemy attacking the pilots, they will turn to attack the initial bridge target but at this point they may be short of ammo.

 

 

 

@=FB=VikS do you think this could be done? That would fix ground attack missions as a whole. Or is there an issue I am not seeing?

[=FB=VikS]

1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

@=FB=VikS do you think this could be done? That would fix ground attack missions as a whole. Or is there an issue I am not seeing?

 

You mean to set waypoints priority to "high"?

Yes and no, cause in case of high priority - AI won't make any evasive actions = > this gonna tend to reports about AI dont do anything when under attack.

PS: the main problem here is that AI is unable to do high speed dive attacks - to avoid interception, i hope with time and AI inprovement - it will be solved.

[Sybreed]

23 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

 

You mean to set waypoints priority to "high"?

Yes and no, cause in case of high priority - AI won't make any evasive actions = > this gonna tend to reports about AI dont do anything when under attack.

PS: the main problem here is that AI is unable to do high speed dive attacks - to avoid interception, i hope with time and AI inprovement - it will be solved.

 

I understand the problem about not reacting when being under attack, but I don't see how doing high speed dive attacks would solve the problem, the problem is target priority. AA shouldn't be the priority at medium settings.

 

And yeah, you said the same thing back in April 2020 when I reported the problem for the second time... that you hope that with time and AI improvement that it will be solved. So... sorry, I'm a bit skeptical that we'll see anything solved until 2025... if anything will be solved at all. The issue seems not so hard to fix, but no one seems interested in fixing it with something other than a band-aid solution. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Sybreed

[Noisemaker]

15 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

 

how much time you spent over target? as for this case - there is a safety timer of 11 minutes, also target counter - of x20, so there should be two ways to complete it in case of entering target area without bombs:

- get 20 targets - sucess and rtb waypoint instantly;

- get any of targets at target airfield, then after 11 minutes - sucess and rtb waypoint.

 

In case if its not - then please drop me the mission file (its in the data\Missions\ folder named "_gen.Mission") - i will check it.

11 minutes over target?  With two flights of enemy aircraft and AAA firing at you, and your escort has buggered off to bother a pair of ground attackers going the opposite way 10 minutes before you reach the target?

Or, and I love this, get 20 targets...  The way the AI bombs, rockets, and strafes, I would need 6 times the ammunition to meet that quota before we're all dead.

I think this should be looked at, as this criteria clearly explains why A to G squadrons suffer enormous losses in SP (Not that they didn't in real life, but in game, it's ridiculous.  No chance of one pass and haul ass).

[Sybreed]

I miss the time when if you destroyed the target, you could go back home. Now I just need to drop a bomb in the middle of a field close to the target area and I get a tap on the back. No need to target anything.

[Bando]

7 hours ago, Noisemaker said:

11 minutes over target?  With two flights of enemy aircraft and AAA firing at you, and your escort has buggered off to bother a pair of ground attackers going the opposite way 10 minutes before you reach the target?

Or, and I love this, get 20 targets...  The way the AI bombs, rockets, and strafes, I would need 6 times the ammunition to meet that quota before we're all dead.

I think this should be looked at, as this criteria clearly explains why A to G squadrons suffer enormous losses in SP (Not that they didn't in real life, but in game, it's ridiculous.  No chance of one pass and haul ass).

I agree.

This is why I always leave my flight. I drop all I got in one (very rarely two) run(s) and get the hell out of that target area.
Sometimes after landing at homebase you get the mission done message.
It would explain those 11 minute timer. It's ridiculous.

We need something else in stead.
Maybe a bombing mission followed by a bomb damage assessment mission to determine success or not.
Timers and fixed numbers to destroy are arcade solutions.
I do hope for some more sophisticated solutions from this dev team.

 

[kendo]

On 10/15/2022 at 12:45 AM, Noisemaker said:

11 minutes over target?  With two flights of enemy aircraft and AAA firing at you, and your escort has buggered off to bother a pair of ground attackers going the opposite way 10 minutes before you reach the target?

Or, and I love this, get 20 targets...  The way the AI bombs, rockets, and strafes, I would need 6 times the ammunition to meet that quota before we're all dead.

I think this should be looked at, as this criteria clearly explains why A to G squadrons suffer enormous losses in SP (Not that they didn't in real life, but in game, it's ridiculous.  No chance of one pass and haul ass).

 

Completely agree - I thought those limits were ridiculous when I read them.

 

Please consider amending them devs. 

 

 

[jojy47jojyrocks]

Sometimes the mission generator in career mode just does a random mission where we get way-points OUT OF THE MAP!

 

Escort missions seem very slow when the AI flight keeps going see-sawing sideways trying to keep speed with escorting.

 

Now the AI seems totally broken in combat, especially the fighter class planes now going vertical almost very frequently.

 

 

[Sybreed]

In my case, I think I'll have to protest with my wallet, not buying more modules until I see significant career mode improvements. I barely played BoN because my p-47 flights can't event take off anymore. Flight leader will just taxi at the back and ram the flight. More than 50% of the missions are ground attacks and these are just not fun to do. What would help a lot would be these steps:

 

1- Fix armed recon missions. These are simply broken. I did one p-47 mission in Rhineland and haven't touched the career again because of this. As soon as you reach the waypoint, you should be looking for important targets. Again, AI will prioritize AAA... at this point, all ground attack missions should be called "AAA hunt".

2- Medium waypoint priority no forces squad to attack AAA when at the objective. Objective is to destroy a bridge? Target is the bridge. Then you can attacks something else, like tanks, trucks, AAA.

3- Make the squad go back to base dependent on how many assets are destroyed

4- If unable to do #3, change the limits to make your squad go back to base after a 5 minutes timer or when 10 targets are destroyed.

5- I don't know how feasible this is, but make AI drop bomb on hard targets first. Then, if they want to strafe AA, they use their guns.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Sybreed

[Deicide]

On 10/19/2022 at 12:46 PM, Sybreed said:

In my case, I think I'll have to protest with my wallet, not buying more modules until I see significant career mode improvements. I barely played BoN because my p-47 flights can't event take off anymore. Flight leader will just taxi at the back and ram the flight. More than 50% of the missions are ground attacks and these are just not fun to do. What would help a lot would be these steps:

 

1- Fix armed recon missions. These are simply broken. I did one p-47 mission in Rhineland and haven't touched the career again because of this. As soon as you reach the waypoint, you should be looking for important targets. Again, AI will prioritize AAA... at this point, all ground attack missions should be called "AAA hunt".

2- Medium waypoint priority no forces squad to attack AAA when at the objective. Objective is to destroy a bridge? Target is the bridge. Then you can attacks something else, like tanks, trucks, AAA.

3- Make the squad go back to base dependent on how many assets are destroyed

4- If unable to do #3, change the limits to make your squad go back to base after a 5 minutes timer or when 10 targets are destroyed.

5- I don't know how feasible this is, but make AI drop bomb on hard targets first. Then, if they want to strafe AA, they use their guns.

 

 

 

100% your comment

[Adger]

I haven’t purchased BON for the reasons you’ve mentioned @Sybreed. In fact until I personally see some drastic changes regarding the issues with AI then my wallet will also stay closed.

I totally respect the team for their continuation to “try” and fix the AI issues and improvements have been made, but there few and far between and it’s such a shame because it’s a beautiful looking series.

 

Love the “feeling” of flight that the Box series gives but I literally just take one of the birds up have a bit of a fly around and land that’s it ..I’m sick and tired of wasting my time flying a long career mission only for it to be screwed up over the target area..poor communications with your flight that often don’t do a single thing you ask of them, enemy AC that seem to spawn in miles away at exactly your height and fixate on your craft, it all feels “scripted”. Pats done a wonderful job with his PWCG but even his incredible program is tied to the constraints of the sim. I sincerely hope with all my heart that the team can really do some more work regarding the AI and SP content.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Adger

[Sybreed]

2 hours ago, Adger said:

I haven’t purchased BON for the reasons you’ve mentioned @Sybreed. In fact until I personally see some drastic changes regarding the issues with AI then my wallet will also stay closed.

I totally respect the team for their continuation to “try” and fix the AI issues and improvements have been made, but there few and far between and it’s such a shame because it’s a beautiful looking series.

 

Love the “feeling” of flight that the Box series gives but I literally just take one of the birds up have a bit of a fly around and land that’s it ..I’m sick and tired of wasting my time flying a long career mission only for it to be screwed up over the target area..poor communications with your flight that often don’t do a single thing you ask of them, enemy AC that seem to spawn in miles away at exactly your height and fixate on your craft, it all feels “scripted”. Pats done a wonderful job with his PWCG but even his incredible program is tied to the constraints of the sim. I sincerely hope with all my heart that the team can really do some more work regarding the AI and SP content.

 

Indeed. Sometimes I wonder if I am not being too demanding, but I only play career mode and if that mode is not enjoyable, than I have no reasons to play the game. The worst part is, I don't think we're asking for too much. 

 

And like you said, the current mission editor is too much scripted. It's fine when you do an intercept mission, but when you do a bomb run only to fly into a squad of fighters every single time, forcing you to jettison your bombs and fight at an altitude and speed disadvantage... only then to go to your target and wait 10 minutes there because the game can't recognize priority targets being destroyed...

 

And like I said again,  ground attack missions are like 50% of the sim... they need to be looked at. 

[Deicide]

1 hour ago, Sybreed said:

 

Indeed. Sometimes I wonder if I am not being too demanding, but I only play career mode and if that mode is not enjoyable, than I have no reasons to play the game. The worst part is, I don't think we're asking for too much. 

 

 

 

Not even the slightest bit demanding, trust me. I feel the same as you. I've been labeled a complainer and someone who argues, you know why? Because of what has been said in threads just like this. I've been multi-day bans and all that because of standing my ground against others and not backing down when it comes to things like this. You're not to demanding at all. Not by any means. Most of the people honestly just dick ride, you know who they are when you see their comments. Keep up the good fight, you've got me and others here who completely agree with all you've said so far.