Better 3d in VR - Greater Depth!

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, T24_Martin said:

I usually select 3 or 4. Works well.

 

 

Yeah I have kept mine on 3 for quite a while.

[Youtch]

25 minutes ago, T24_Martin said:

I usually select 3 or 4. Works well.

 

It does not introduce too much ghosting for planes flying accross your cockpit with high angles?

[Drum]

I agree, Firdimigdi.  Finding the cause will not only help those who are unaware of the 3D issues they're experiencing, but should also improve it even more for everyone once the culprit is understood.  I'm glad I have my real 3D back, but until the cause is known, I'm not ready to say it's 100% fixed yet.  For instance, fully understanding this issue may even help to cure the cause of those feeling nauseated, experiencing eye strain or any other negative issue experienced with this tec.  ?

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Drum

[J2_Steve]

On 4/11/2022 at 1:14 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

Little on the net is really "free". Has anyone with an Index tried this "mod"? If it is only useful for those who are using WMR HMDs and the benefit is via testimonial only I am hesitant to download NPI.

NVidia Inspector has been around for years and completely trustworthy and free.  It's not a mod. it's a tool to unlock more tweaks in your Nvidia graphics settings. I have used it for a very long time to fix shimmer in ROF and IL2GB with the sparse grid supersampling setting.  The app is freely available through a few reputable sites, Guru3d and tech[power up being 2.

 

I have only just seen this thread but I'll be trying it out on my Index as soon as I can

Edited April 12, 2022 by J2_SteveF

[Dagwoodyt]

14 minutes ago, J2_SteveF said:

NVidia Inspector has been around for years and completely trustworthy and free.  It's not a mod. it's a tool to unlock more tweaks in your Nvidia graphics settings. I have used it for a very long time to fix shimmer in ROF and IL2GB with the sparse grid supersampling setting.  The app is freely available through a few reputable sites, Guru3d and tech[power up being 2.

 

I have only just seen this thread but I'll be trying it out on my Index as soon as I can

Thanks. Yes my concern is more the download sites than NPI.

As for the MC.202, the attitude and slip indicators look 3D to me in VR now so it is difficult to imagine how anyone would need NPI to achieve that effect. The other problematic issue is that few testimonials indicate what HMD is being used. That seems like something that should always be stated at outset of a testimonial.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[Drum]

Reverb G2 here, I first bought a Rift CV1 in 2017 and had my 3D wow moment with that HMD.  Never got that thrill with the G2 until applying this fix.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, J2_SteveF said:

NVidia Inspector has been around for years and completely trustworthy and free.  It's not a mod. it's a tool to unlock more tweaks in your Nvidia graphics settings. I have used it for a very long time to fix shimmer in ROF and IL2GB with the sparse grid supersampling setting.  The app is freely available through a few reputable sites, Guru3d and tech[power up being 2.

 

I have only just seen this thread but I'll be trying it out on my Index as soon as I can

 

Thank you! Yeah I used to use it a few years ago and liked it for what I was doing at the time, can't remember though what it was.

Edited April 12, 2022 by dburne

[firdimigdi]

15 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Thanks. Yes my concern is more the download sites than NPI.

 

You can always get it from the creator's github page directly by-passing any intermediaries:

https://github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector/releases

 

As demonstrated above it's a handy tool to have for situations where the nVidia control panel messes up silently.

 

  

15 hours ago, J2_SteveF said:

have used it for a very long time to fix shimmer in ROF and IL2GB with the sparse grid supersampling setting

 

If this is the setting for transparency anti-aliasing that was popular sometime ago then keep in mind that if you do that now in IL-2 you'll likely end up with "glowing" smoke dirt/particle effects; in VR it's quite distracting as the smoke will flicker from its proper color to a lighter tone as you move your head.

 

 

 

Coming back to the whole subject from a much simpler perspective:

 

The "stereo" section of the nVidia profile was introduced many years ago, before current VR, and was meant to apply to monitors, either by causing anaglyph rendering:
https://3dvision-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/burnout-paradise-anaglyph.jpg

 

Or nVidia's proprietary 3D Vision mode for their shuttered glasses which also required a custom monitor panel (or so I understand as I never got in to that tech):

https://techreport.com/r.x/geforce-3d-vision/stereo-shot.jpg

 

Ergo: any changes it introduces to the game's rendering should be immediately visible in non-VR mode as well, as they added these features long before VR was around and their purpose was to make changes to the rendering process of the game at the GPU driver level - all of which occurs before it is transferred to the HMD or your monitor. Therefore you do not need a VR headset to see the effects rendered, regardless if they look like a mess as in the screenshots above or if they are subtle and only visible when the scene is in motion they should absolutely be visible in 2D/screen/pancake mode as well. After all that's their intended medium and that's what happens when you modify rendering settings at the driver level. Furthermore, AFAIK they are not a post-processing effect either, so they should absolutely be capturable in simple screenshots (but even if they were there are tools to capture screenshots with post-processing effects in them as well [for example, the openvr_api.dll mod by fholger has a screenshot function which captures the final result, post processing included, right before it is outputted to your HMD]).

Example: you can completely disable anisotropic filtering and drop the quality of your texture filtering to the lowest possible and it will be immediately visible both on screen and in the image sent to your HMD because it is done at the GPU driver level, the exact same thing applies to any effect the settings from the stereo section would trigger.

 

EDIT:

In fact I think @C6_lefuneste could weigh in on this as he has done extensive work around IL2's past 3D Vision support.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[Dagwoodyt]

I tried this "tweak" with my Index. I applied the relevant five parameters to my Il-2 BoS profile listed in the NPI menu, not to the "Global" profile. I saved the profile in NPI and later called it up again in NPI to make sure the changes had been saved. I do not see any changes in the game after applying this "tweak". Flying the MC.202, its' gauges look the same. Unless I have applied the changes incorrectly I suspect that, in searching for effects after going to the trouble of understanding and applying said "tweak", some folks are rediscovering details that were already present, but which they had ceased to pay attention to.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[dburne]

10 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I tried this "tweak" with my Index. I applied the relevant five parameters to my Il-2 BoS profile listed in the NPI menu, not to the "Global" profile. I saved the profile in NPI and later called it up again in NPI to make sure the changes had been saved. I do not see any changes in the game after applying this "tweak". Flying the MC.202, its' gauges look the same. Unless I have applied the changes incorrectly I suspect that, in searching for effects after going to the trouble of understanding and applying said "tweak", some folks are rediscovering details that were already present, but which they had ceased to pay attention to.

 

Not in my case.

[Dagwoodyt]

Just be aware that we have no information as to how this "tweak" was developed and no objective parameters to determine that it does anything. Yes, the idea is that I can download the file thru the DCS forum. In retrospect it didn't benefit ME to do that download. YMMV

[dburne]

As I found out it can be a little complex to input the changes properly for the new settings to take affect. I was ready to give up on it on the first try and now am glad I did not. But if it don't work for some then it don't work. For some it does.

 

Nvidia Inspector has been a free download for many years and gives access to GPU tweaks not normally available in the standard Nvidia Control Panel.  This just requires the latest version of Nvidia Inspector.

Edited April 14, 2022 by dburne

[Youtch]

As Firdimigdi said, it would be still interesting to figure out which tweaking is causing a perception of improvement as reported if it is not this actual modification by itself

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, Youtch said:

As Firdimigdi said, it would be still interesting to figure out which tweaking is causing a perception of improvement as reported if it is not this actual modification by itself

 

Well there are only 5 tweaks done. I will be sticking with them myself. Mine is an improvement.

[Drum]

I turned it off for the second time the other day to see the difference then back on the third time and it appears to me to be making the edges of every object more defined as apposed to them blending together more when off, on it slightly brightens the overall image.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Drum

[Dagwoodyt]

I added the "tweak" to my DCS NPI profile also and saw no perceptible effect with my Index.

[J2_Steve]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:40 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

Just be aware that we have no information as to how this "tweak" was developed and no objective parameters to determine that it does anything. Yes, the idea is that I can download the file thru the DCS forum. In retrospect it didn't benefit ME to do that download. YMMV

It's not a 3rd party developed tweak as such. Nvidia inspector unlocks features that exist within Nvidia drivers. SO the owner and developer of this "tweak" is Nvidia. 

 

 

[Vishnu]

Wow~!  Thank you so much for posting this....so simple...everything is much clearer and crisp.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, J2_SteveF said:

It's not a 3rd party developed tweak as such. Nvidia inspector unlocks features that exist within Nvidia drivers. SO the owner and developer of this "tweak" is Nvidia. 

 

 

I don't know that there is a point of disagreement. The "tweak" is not NPI, it's the five altered settings. How were they arrived at? As far as NPI is concerned I don't see it offered on Nvidia's website. There is no question that suggesting said "tweak" can give graphical enhancements subtle and/or fantastic, without any performance cost, generates downloads and numerous posts pro and con.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[dburne]

21 minutes ago, Vishnu said:

Wow~!  Thank you so much for posting this....so simple...everything is much clearer and crisp.

 

You are most welcome!

I am still very much enjoying it myself.

Edited April 16, 2022 by dburne

[firdimigdi]

12 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

How were they arrived at?

 

Someone found a profile named "VRdirectx"  made for this game: https://www.mobygames.com/game/v-rally-edition-99 and thought "VR + directx is a dead giveaway", blindly copied it over (or initially just pressed "apply changes" in NPI, which as described only saves the changes to the profile and does not activate it) and the rest, as they say, is history.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Someone found a profile named "VRdirectx"  made for this game: https://www.mobygames.com/game/v-rally-edition-99 and thought "VR + directx is a dead giveaway", blindly copied it over (or initially just pressed "apply changes" in NPI, which as described only saves the changes to the profile and does not activate it) and the rest, as they say, is history.

So the person who applied "VRdirectx" to an existing profile might have observed some graphical "enhancement" and then just copied their other existing NPI profile settings so that no "development" process was involved. That would be hiliarious if the actual state of affairs.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[firdimigdi]

That's exactly how it happened. From the post here and downwards:

 

As Crunch wrote to me at the time:

Quote

Interesting Firdimigdi, didn't know any of that, just assumed it was Virtual Reality.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[dburne]

Also as Crunch wrote at the time:

 

Quote

It's well worth it, this has quite a dramatic effect on cities, forests, and terrain, not just on aircraft.  You can actually see the size differences in the trees now, it doesn't look like a mono forest of uniformity, and the cities, there's an actual topography to them now where the taller buildings dominate the skyline at distance.  The land is very noticeably rough and bumpy looking where its unbroken and uncultivated at altitude, you had to get down in the weeds to see that before.  This is a keeper, bringing it all more alive.  Don't notice any hit in rendering performance. 

 

Which is the exact same experience I have had with making these 5 tweaks in Nvidia Inspector. As have others. I too thought it to be rubbish at first as I was not seeing any difference, however a little persistence paid off for me. A very nice improvement. This is a fact. For the guys that do try it and do not see a difference might want to post the headset you are using to see if any commonality between them.

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

For the guys that do try it and do not see a difference might want to post the headset you are using to see if any commonality between them.

 

At some point I started taking note of the HMDs and GPUs mentioned here and in the other forum. Both the people who say they see a difference and the people who say they don't seem to be a mixed bunch hardware-wise, all sorts of HMDs and GPUs involved so I don't think there's anything common in those two categories in terms of hardware. Maybe they have the same keyboard or something, or they all bought their last hard drive in February for all we know.

 

According to all the literature coming out from both threads here and in the other sim's forum it is not a difference that is subject to being measured or captured in any form of screenshot and relies 100% on the observer's perception and the ones who say they do see a difference are not in a position to do anything in the form of testing to figure it out. Add to it the bunch who were also simply pressing the "apply changes" button in NPI and said they saw a difference and some other claims that once they saw the difference it was still there even after they disabled the tweaks then that further muddies the waters.

 

The most telling statement that was posed on the other forum was "I like to know why I don't see the things you see", expressed by a person (likely in frustration) who does not know or have a way to know what exactly it is that the other person was saying he was seeing. The whole subject has comically ventured in to being material for an obscure philosophy doctorate at this point.

 

After all the testing I did on the matter, having chased down that these settings were for and having read what others have written in the meantime I must admit that my technical curiosity on the mater has been sated, only reason I answered to @Dagwoodyt was to clear up the "where and how did this come from".

 

By the way, someone should inform the people over at the Meant to Be Seen forums ( https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=105 ) who are still swapping out their drivers for the older ones and have devised tools to do so ( https://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=25361 ) ever after nVidia removed support for 3D Vision in their drivers that they don't need to do it any more.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[dburne]

25 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

According to all the literature coming out from both threads here and in the other sim's forum it is not a difference that is subject to being measured or captured in any form of screenshot and relies 100% on the observer's perception and the ones who say they do see a difference are not in a position to do anything in the form of testing to figure it out. Add to it the bunch who were also simply pressing the "apply changes" button in NPI and said they saw a difference and some other claims that once they saw the difference it was still there even after they disabled the tweaks then that further muddies the waters.

 

 

Going on the assumption that you tried it and it did not work for you:

How exactly did you add the tweaks?

What headset?

[firdimigdi]

Just now, dburne said:

 

Going on the assumption that you tried it and it did not work for you:

How exactly did you add the tweaks?

What headset?

 

HP G2.

First I tried them in the IL-2 profile.

Then I tried them in global profile.

Then I removed il-2.exe from the official IL2 profile and added it to the VRdirectx profile instead.

 

The above I did twice - both in January when Crush first mentioned this, figured I had nothing to lose and when this thread got started.

 

Then I also downloaded the profile posted in the DCS forum and even though upon comparison I saw it was the same as the above and was only missing the il-2.exe assignment I assigned the il-2 executable to that instead and tried it as well.

 

I have been using nvidia profile inspector for over a decade now, in fact a few years back it was rather mandatory to use in some situations, so I am fairly certain I know how to use it and what it does (especially since the creator has been good enough to provide the source code for for it on github I can say I know exactly what it does [and anyone that takes time to look at the code can as well]).

 

[dburne]

This is what I did that finally got it to work for me. And yes I know this goes against all common belief but I am telling you, this is what first worked for me:

Made these adjustments with latest version of Nvidia Profile Inspector:

Opened Profile Inspector and select to show all.

Created new profile, and named it 3D VR.

Within that profile I made the the following tweaks to 5 files:

 

 

 

 

Clicked on Apply to save the changes. Have to be careful making those changes to be sure and get them correct as per the image displayed. I screwed up the first time I tried and did not see a difference.

 

Then I ran the sim, and saw shortly after takeoff the difference in the hills, valleys, trees etc. There seemed to be a greater depth to them overall. I did not notice on runway, but once airborne and flying over them it became apparent to me. I am using the Varjo Aero. Even though I already had an IL-2 Profile in Nvidia Control Panel, the new 3d affects I saw applied after I created the new 3d VR Profile. Again I know does not make sense, but I am telling you it worked for me. Now I have since added the same changes to my game profiles as well.

Edit: Going to be gone for a bit, headed out to in-laws for Easter Luncheon.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by dburne

[Chilli_40]

Is there any chance that someone could or will do a proper install tutorial for this tweak sometime? Trying to follow what's all been posted, and the original video is very murky to say the least. Thx

[firdimigdi]

26 minutes ago, dburne said:

This is what I did that finally got it to work for me. And yes I know this goes against all common belief but I am telling you, this is what first worked for me:

Made these adjustments with latest version of Nvidia Profile Inspector:

Opened Profile Inspector and select to show all.

Created new profile, and named it 3D VR.

Within that profile I made the the following tweaks to 5 files:

 

 

 

 

Clicked on Apply to save the changes. Have to be careful making those changes to be sure and get them correct as per the image displayed. I screwed up the first time I tried and did not see a difference.

 

Then I ran the sim, and saw shortly after takeoff the difference in the hills, valleys, trees etc. There seemed to be a greater depth to them overall. I did not notice on runway, but once airborne and flying over them it became apparent to me. I am using the Varjo Aero. Even though I already had an IL-2 Profile in Nvidia Control Panel, the new 3d affects I saw applied after I created the new 3d VR Profile. Again I know does not make sense, but I am telling you it worked for me. Now I have since added the same changes to my game profiles as well.

 

 

Yes, these are the exact settings I used, after all they are in the VRdirectx profile and can be copied over - as mentioned I did this multiple times so far (here is a post in this very thread with a screenshot of the settings I used the last time around). By the way, you are missing one step: assign the profile to il-2.exe, otherwise it is not loaded. Simply creating the "3D VR" profile and adding these settings and pressing "Apply Changes" only saves the profile to disk, it does not apply it (the "apply changes" refers to applying the changes to the profile, it doesn't mean "apply the profile") - if you do not believe me on this, check the nvidia profile inspector's source code.

 

As a sidenote, considering that you are using a Varjo Aero which is currently at the early stages of its life as a product and is still being actively updated by its creators: would it not be a good idea to tell them about these settings and have them include whatever changes they make, or an option to activate them, since they enhance the experience for you?

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Firdimigdi

[unlikely_spider]

Since these are stereo settings, is there any harm to adding them to the global profile and assuming that the won't affect the image in non-vr uses?

[firdimigdi]

5 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Since these are stereo settings, is there any harm to adding them to the global profile and assuming that the won't affect the image in non-vr uses?

 

Normally they are meant to affect the image in non-VR use since as settings they were introduced to the drivers before VR was a thing.

[unlikely_spider]

11 minutes ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Normally they are meant to affect the image in non-VR use since as settings they were introduced to the drivers before VR was a thing.

But were used regardless for stereo uses like the early 3D gaming, correct?

[Dagwoodyt]

25 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

But were used regardless for stereo uses like the early 3D gaming, correct?

Well if you applied the settings to your Il2.exe profile via NPI and saw no change then by all means apply it to your global profile as the result will likely not change   ? 

[unlikely_spider]

1 minute ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Well if you applied the settings to your Il2.exe profile via NPI and saw no change then by all means apply it to your global profile as the result will likely not change   ? 

I haven't done anything yet - I'm just wondering if there is harm in applying it globally so that I don't have to mess with a bunch of profiles. If it will have benefits for vr but not affect non-stereo uses.

[firdimigdi]

36 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

But were used regardless for stereo uses like the early 3D gaming, correct?

 

Yes and support for them was removed from the drivers entirely after a certain driver version.

[Youtch]

I played with it initially to see by myself what it was doing, only to observe no difference, nor in better nor in worst (even after associating IL2 to the new profile).

 

I opted finally to remove it to minimize the overall number of modifications, and i realize i didn t make any backup of my initial nvidia profile for il2 and I lost it...

 

I still removed it and went back to all values to default. Anyone would be kind to remind me which are the values that make sense to modify for nvidia IL2 profile?

 

Many thanks in advance,

Y.

[shirazjohn]

I have been following this post for some days now and have come to the conclusion that maybe we are seeing the result of witchcraft or the devils work. Perhaps the use of a ducking stool may help seek the truth ?.

 

P.S it didn't work for me either ?

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

I haven't done anything yet - I'm just wondering if there is harm in applying it globally so that I don't have to mess with a bunch of profiles. If it will have benefits for vr but not affect non-stereo uses.

With testimonials that all over the map seems like you are the only one who can answer your question.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

 

Yes, these are the exact settings I used, after all they are in the VRdirectx profile and can be copied over - as mentioned I did this multiple times so far (here is a post in this very thread with a screenshot of the settings I used the last time around). By the way, you are missing one step: assign the profile to il-2.exe, otherwise it is not loaded. Simply creating the "3D VR" profile and adding these settings and pressing "Apply Changes" only saves the profile to disk, it does not apply it (the "apply changes" refers to applying the changes to the profile, it doesn't mean "apply the profile") - if you do not believe me on this, check the nvidia profile inspector's source code.

 

As a sidenote, considering that you are using a Varjo Aero which is currently at the early stages of its life as a product and is still being actively updated by its creators: would it not be a good idea to tell them about these settings and have them include whatever changes they make, or an option to activate them, since they enhance the experience for you?

 

 

I am certainly very much aware of how Nvidia Inspector works, been using it for a number of years.

But - I am telling you, IL-2 exe does not have to be tied into it in this case, it works. I have since added it after I saw both it and DCS actual work with the new settings. I can not explain the logistics of how and why it does, only that in my case - it did.

If you read the threads, you will see it is not just Aero owners that benefitted from this. And other headset owners saw the same result I did.

The ones that saw no difference I would first question if all values were input properly. Once that is double checked and confirmed, if it still does not work then I guess it won't work.

Understand though there are several that it does work for.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by dburne