Flying Circus Future

[Enceladus828]

13 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

In any case 15 years is a good run.

??

In that 15 years, WW1 wise, we got up to the Channel Map and Eastern Front in Rise of Flight with only 3 Russian planes and no Austrian planes for the latter. Now after rebuilding RoF in the GBs engine it's suffered the same fate albeit with less content than what we got save for VR, Graphics, FM and aircraft system additions and improvements, SS D.IV, Snipe and the city of Paris. What really frustrates me about this is that we haven't gotten a clear reason why Ugra isn't going to add the remaining planes and maps and some early and late war two-seaters. I would totally accept if they're just taking on other projects and don't have the time or are being trained with making content -- including planes and maps -- in the Korea sim so that they can continue WW1 development in that sim.

[Jackfraser24]

11 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

??

In that 15 years, WW1 wise, we got up to the Channel Map and Eastern Front in Rise of Flight with only 3 Russian planes and no Austrian planes for the latter. Now after rebuilding RoF in the GBs engine it's suffered the same fate albeit with less content than what we got save for VR, Graphics, FM and aircraft system additions and improvements, SS D.IV, Snipe and the city of Paris. What really frustrates me about this is that we haven't gotten a clear reason why Ugra isn't going to add the remaining planes and maps and some early and late war two-seaters. I would totally accept if they're just taking on other projects and don't have the time or are being trained with making content -- including planes and maps -- in the Korea sim so that they can continue WW1 development in that sim.

We'll have to see what happens before the year 2032 (15 years after the announcement of Flying Circus Volume I). The third party dev team Ugra Media (not 1CGS) might very well do a Galician map, a Channel map, an Italian map, a Macedonian map and a Romanian map (the final three suggestions I have are suggested in order to set themselves apart from Rise of Flight, but I might just be daydreaming here so please forgive me for that). LukeFF said that they have no plans to do anymore Flying Circus volumes though I am not sure whether he was meaning that both 1CGS and Ugra Media are going to cease work on Flying Circus or whether it will all be left to just Ugra Media to carry on producing it. I'm sure many of us would like to see more WWI planes in Great Battles yet it might not happen, but who knows. I haven't heard any indication that they won't do more.  

[Panzerlang]

Fingers crossed it won't be 15 years before they can say "Hey, AI coder, build these planes please" and five minutes later the collectors' pack goes up on sale with 20 more planes (the AI will be on a quantum computer of course).

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

What really frustrates me about this is that we haven't gotten a clear reason why Ugra isn't going to add the remaining planes and maps and some early and late war two-seaters. I would totally accept if they're just taking on other projects and don't have the time or are being trained with making content -- including planes and maps -- in the Korea sim so that they can continue WW1 development in that sim.

It’s tough to say for certain, but it might be related to the fact that people like you refused to buy FC. 
 

[BMA_Hellbender]

13 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

??

In that 15 years, WW1 wise, we got up to the Channel Map and Eastern Front in Rise of Flight with only 3 Russian planes and no Austrian planes for the latter. Now after rebuilding RoF in the GBs engine it's suffered the same fate albeit with less content than what we got save for VR, Graphics, FM and aircraft system additions and improvements, SS D.IV, Snipe and the city of Paris. What really frustrates me about this is that we haven't gotten a clear reason why Ugra isn't going to add the remaining planes and maps and some early and late war two-seaters. I would totally accept if they're just taking on other projects and don't have the time or are being trained with making content -- including planes and maps -- in the Korea sim so that they can continue WW1 development in that sim.

Unless there are some major changes in PC gaming on the horizon, having RoF content run in 64-bit with graphical improvements, VR etc. is the major merit of FC. That and the new content you mentioned.

 

The upcoming FM reviews will be the cherry on top and have the potential to further increase the sim’s longevity. And at least one of these reviews will not even be for a plane in the latest volume. Obviously it’s too early to judge any of this, but at least it’s happening—and it seems like it won’t be a repeat of RoF 1.034 where they rush something out the door in the span of a week to appease, well, @gavagai and also myself, apparently. At least that’s how the story goes.

 

As for Ugra Media, they make the 3D models (and sounds?). That’s it. The actual integration into the sim is done by the 1C devs, including developing the FM, obviously. If they don’t have the time or inclination to keep working on WWI, then that is their decision and theirs alone. I still think that adding some two-seaters down the line would make sense, but that could be in a year or two even for all I care.

[Jackfraser24]

If there is going to be a Flying Circus Volume V we will find out in good time.

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

If there is going to be a Flying Circus Volume V we will find out in good time.

 

There will be no mad rush to expand FC with new theatres with lots of new exotic planes... not a chance.

If they do anything at all, they need to properly flesh out the western front with all the content that has been asked for repeatedly by all and sundry on here.

[Jackfraser24]

6 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

 

There will be no mad rush to expand FC with new theatres with lots of new exotic planes... not a chance.

If they do anything at all, they need to properly flesh out the western front with all the content that has been asked for repeatedly by all and sundry on here.

I agree with you on that. But like I say, we’ll eventually find out, hopefully soon. Maybe the dev team will say something in their first news update after the release of FC.Vol.IV in where the series is definitely going to go next. 

[LukeFF]

Guys, like I've said, the focus is on volume 4 right now, and there are no plans right now for a Volume 5. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

Guys, like I've said, the focus is on volume 4 right now, and there are no plans right now for a Volume 5. 

🤣

Edited October 6, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[Zooropa_Fly]

[Jackfraser24]

23 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

🤣

Like one in a million. 

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/6/2024 at 2:41 PM, LukeFF said:

Guys, like I've said, the focus is on volume 4 right now, and there are no plans right now for a Volume 5. 

Sorry about that. I guess we are all just excited for Vol.IV and whatever news is to come next. We'll find out something in good time. 

[LukeFF]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:13 AM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

@LukeFF

New patch will adres issue with fuel tanks do not blow up and burns forever?

 

Is this an issue with a particular plane or is it all planes in the Flying Circus plane set?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

36 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Is this an issue with a particular plane or is it all planes in the Flying Circus plane set?

When I tested it it was all planes issue.

Also majority of planes fuel tank can't be/ it's extremely hard to set on fire. Only Camel is easier but it burns forever without explosion.

All planes tested with low fuel. In addition when engine start fire, fuel stop leaking. Btw Engine fire is extremely easy to put off in fighter plane, you need just reduced throttle.

 

 

[Enceladus828]

On 10/5/2024 at 5:03 AM, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

As for Ugra Media, they make the 3D models (and sounds?). That’s it. The actual integration into the sim is done by the 1C devs, including developing the FM, obviously.

That applies to any map that gets made now for GBs including the Odessa and Karelia maps so I guess there will be no more GBs maps made after Karelia even if 3rd party teams want to. 😥

Edited October 10, 2024 by Enceladus828

[Aapje]

In principle, maps can always be made for use with the current set of GB planes. I'm sure that 1CGS would give any serious team the tools to do so and would add the map to the game.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Eventually majority of players will move to new sim, new content would gather some attention  but eventually it's gonna be like ROF or Cliffs. Empty or close to empty multiplayer servers. Some folks would play sp but not in numbers. Changes are inevitable.  

Before new sim will take majority of us out we have plenty of time enjoying present and also new content in GB. Good times 😃

Edited October 11, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/11/2024 at 10:22 PM, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Eventually majority of players will move to new sim, new content would gather some attention  but eventually it's gonna be like ROF or Cliffs. Empty or close to empty multiplayer servers. Some folks would play sp but not in numbers. Changes are inevitable.  

Before new sim will take majority of us out we have plenty of time enjoying present and also new content in GB. Good times 😃

I think you are right there. I doubt that there is going to be a Flying Circus Col.V. Though I would like to see it done in the new series. Not only would I like to see them remake the Western Front but also, Galicia, the Channel and Italy. Though that may be some time away yet, it will be interesting to see where IL-2 goes within the next 10 years. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

2 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Though I would like to see it done in the new series.

 

Why ?

[Jackfraser24]

9 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Why ?

Well, because WWI combat flight sim is fun and there are a lot of places other than the Western Front where they can go. But I don’t think that it would be a good idea to have a Flying Circus 2.0 in the new series otherwise they will have no chance of making a profit with the original Flying Circus. I think it would be too soon, yes, if that is why you are questioning my suggestion.

[Trooper117]

If they were ever thinking about expanding the FC series, (which they aren't)... I'd want them to fully flesh out the Western Front so all aircraft including airships are included, and only then start thinking about other theatres... 

[Jackfraser24]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

If they were ever thinking about expanding the FC series, (which they aren't)... I'd want them to fully flesh out the Western Front so all aircraft including airships are included, and only then start thinking about other theatres... 

I really would have loved it if they had done Galicia, and being immersed in the recreation of the campaign of fighting in a fierce air battle between Imperial Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian air forces. Hopefully his could be done in the next series if they do get around to it.

[BraveSirRobin]

12 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I really would have loved it if they had done Galicia, and being immersed in the recreation of the campaign of fighting in a fierce air battle between Imperial Russian, German and Austro-Hungarian air forces. Hopefully his could be done in the next series if they do get around to it.

 

Which "fierce air battle" are you referring to?

[WitchyWoman]

Having purchased all of Rise Of Flight and enjoyed it more than Flying circus in terms of the single player experience (having purchased everything up to vol III and not happy with it), and now seeing basically that IL-GB is coming to a close. I will not be re-buying everything over a 3rd time in a new game if WW1 modules come to Korea. I will be sticking with ROF for a WW1 experience.

 

That said, I sure hope the AI in Korea is light years better than the past and that career mode continues on.

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Which "fierce air battle" are you referring to?

Every battle is a fierce one. But i guess it wasn't as intense as on the Western Front though. I see your point. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

12 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Well, because WWI combat flight sim is fun and there are a lot of places other than the Western Front where they can go. But I don’t think that it would be a good idea to have a Flying Circus 2.0 in the new series otherwise they will have no chance of making a profit with the original Flying Circus. I think it would be too soon, yes, if that is why you are questioning my suggestion.

 

Curiosity Jack,

Whilst it's perfectly possible that you have a second account, maybe on Steam - Jackfraser24 doesn't appear to have purchased any FC modules.

So.. a) Why would you care what comes next when you haven't bought any of the past..

And.. b) Would it be right for you to be driving this 'what are we getting next' frenzy if you've not supported the project yourself ?

 

Just Curious,

S!

 

 

[PatrickAWlson]

10 hours ago, WitchyWoman said:

Having purchased all of Rise Of Flight and enjoyed it more than Flying circus in terms of the single player experience (having purchased everything up to vol III and not happy with it), and now seeing basically that IL-GB is coming to a close. I will not be re-buying everything over a 3rd time in a new game if WW1 modules come to Korea. I will be sticking with ROF for a WW1 experience.

 

That said, I sure hope the AI in Korea is light years better than the past and that career mode continues on.

 

For improved flight models, game performance, and massively improved AI I would definitely buy the WWI set again.  Those sorts of changes don't come for free.  Somebody has to be paid to code them. 

 

What I would not pay for a third time is the same AI, flight/damage models, and performance limitations with better graphics.  The graphics are pretty good right now.  I want AI that flies a plane more realistically and I want to get more stuff  into a mission.  Being limited to 4 bombers for 15 years is not good.

 

Doesn't matter too much.  Even if 1C did massive AI and performance improvements I would be too old to use it by the time it arrives.

[JFM]

I'd buy all new WW1 stuff again. The amount of money I used to spend on booze and cigarettes is staggering compared to a hundred bucks every couple years or so. 

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I would be too old to use it by the time it arrives.

 

I think I fit into that bracket!  🤣

[Enceladus828]

20 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

If they were ever thinking about expanding the FC series, (which they aren't)... I'd want them to fully flesh out the Western Front so all aircraft including airships are included, and only then start thinking about other theatres... 

BE2c, Albatross C.1 or Aviatik C.1, and Rumpler C.IV. Not sure if Zeppelins would work as intended in the game engine and AFAIK there was no serious consideration and would rather see the former planes first. 

 

Speaking of which, why were no WW1 Collectors added after the Snipe and SS D.IV, not profitable enough? (If anyone cares I bought the SS D.IV last month but credit card issues precluded me from getting FC2 before the sale ended but I plan to get it and FC4 this month.) 

[Jackfraser24]

15 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Curiosity Jack,

Whilst it's perfectly possible that you have a second account, maybe on Steam - Jackfraser24 doesn't appear to have purchased any FC modules.

So.. a) Why would you care what comes next when you haven't bought any of the past..

And.. b) Would it be right for you to be driving this 'what are we getting next' frenzy if you've not supported the project yourself ?

 

Just Curious,

S!

I have bought it. I have every module of IL-2.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

10 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I have bought it. I have every module of IL-2.

 

My condolences.

[JG4_Moltke1871]

1 hour ago, Enceladus828 said:

BE2c, Albatross C.1 or Aviatik C.1, and Rumpler C.IV. Not sure if Zeppelins would work as intended in the game engine and AFAIK there was no serious consideration and would rather see the former planes first. 

 

Speaking of which, why were no WW1 Collectors added after the Snipe and SS D.IV, not profitable enough? (If anyone cares I bought the SS D.IV last month but credit card issues precluded me from getting FC2 before the sale ended but I plan to get it and FC4 this month.) 

FC2 is my favourite module, of course because the bombers but also the two seaters are superb 😋

The powerhorses Breguet and Airco and the lovely quirk DFW.C.V …😍😍😍😍

N28 (soon with better FM),Pfalz D.XII…

 

Life is useless without all that

[Jackfraser24]

5 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

My condolences.

I like your humor!

15 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

And.. b) Would it be right for you to be driving this 'what are we getting next' frenzy if you've not supported the project yourself ?

 

Just Curious,

S!

I fully support the project. Its just that Steam takes some of the money when I have bought every module off of it.

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Speaking of which, why were no WW1 Collectors added after the Snipe and SS D.IV, not profitable enough? (If anyone cares I bought the SS D.IV last month but credit card issues precluded me from getting FC2 before the sale ended but I plan to get it and FC4 this month.) 

 

The Snipe and the Siemens especially are very fun planes to fly. They just suffer from two major "issues":

 

• They're very late war planes and are understandably somewhat underrepresented online
   
• They have much more sophisticated but "tougher" FMs than the old ported over RoF planes, especially at higher altitudes (where they are supposed to operate), and hence are less competitive

 

There's not really a lot that can be done, save for bringing all the old RoF planes' FMs up to the Snipe and Siemens' standard... or dumbing down the Snipe and Siemens. There's also not much of an incentive to fly at very high altitude, mostly due to the lack of a Central high altitude late war two-seater. Not to metion that the Fokker D.VIIF and SPAD XIII/S.E.5a still reign supreme there.

 

That said, the Siemens is a rocket ship and I fly it whenever I can. It really ought to perform way better than it currently does in a dogfight against the Sopwith Camel, though, even at low to medium altitude. The Snipe is a complicated "vertical rollfighter" (we call it a barrel with wings) and performs about as well as can be expected against the Siemens. It's pretty awful against the Fokker D.VIIF. Heck, you're better off in a Dolphin (not throwing shade on the Dolphin, it was meant to be very good).

[=IRFC=Tunes]

4 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbent said:

(we call it a barrel with wings)

 

UNF

[Koziolek]

On 10/14/2024 at 4:31 PM, Trooper117 said:

 

I think I fit into that bracket!  🤣

Well if the digits in your nick are your age, then I agree 😁

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

41 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

That's sad considering that after the nerf the DVIIF's roll rate is only slightly better than the Gotha.

The million dollar question is do we want/get accuracy or balance?   During the war, new aircraft designs were produced practically monthly.  The technology advantages switched back and forth regularly.  The advantage numbers of aircraft and qualified, trained pilots also shifted back and forth frequently,  with one sides ability to hold any long term advantage practically impossible.   One side might have more advanced aircraft, but not enough pilots, or only advanced aircraft in small numbers. One side could have larger numbers of aircraft,  that were technically inferior.   

 

I don't envy the developers who I believe try to find the Goldilocks mix of realism and balance.   Whatever they do, will leave someone unhappy.

Ps..Mission designers face this same dilemma.  Balance v Historical.   Not an easy task to make it fun for all.

Edited October 17, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[BMA_Hellbender]

2 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

That's sad considering that after the nerf the DVIIF's roll rate is only slightly better than the Gotha.

In the Snipe on the deck you can force overshoots by rolling and looping out of harms way, but getting a firing solution on a D.VIIF is mostly dependent on the pilot making the mistake to be there in the first place.

 

At altitude you can forget about it. At least the Snipe dives well. Again I’ll take a Dolphin over a Snipe any day of the week. I hope the updated N28 will be in a similar position as the Dolphin (slightly slower, slightly better climb than the Dolphin, similar rate of turn).

1 hour ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

The million dollar question is do we want/get accuracy or balance?   During the war, new aircraft designs were produced practically monthly.  The technology advantages switched back and forth regularly.  The advantage numbers of aircraft and qualified, trained pilots also shifted back and forth frequently,  with one sides ability to hold any long term advantage practically impossible.   One side might have more advanced aircraft, but not enough pilots, or only advanced aircraft in small numbers. One side could have larger numbers of aircraft,  that were technically inferior.   

 

I don't envy the developers who I believe try to find the Goldilocks mix of realism and balance.   Whatever they do, will leave someone unhappy.

Ps..Mission designers face this same dilemma.  Balance v Historical.   Not an easy task to make it fun for all.

In two words: relative accuracy.

 

It doesn’t really matter if a Camel turns 360 degrees in 8s or 10s. What matters is that there’s a baseline and that planes behave in a more or less realistic fashion compared to that baseline. Let the flight physics engine come up with the rest.

 

What’s great these days, is that thanks to @Holtzauge’s calculations, we can have both relative and absolute accuracy, we just need a developer who sees a business opportunity and is willing to implement this data.