Developer Diary - 284 Discussion

[Denum]

Dude. It's so early

 

Relax!

[Trooper117]

 

[Jaws2002]

14 minutes ago, Denum said:

Dude. It's so early

 

Relax!

Because there are so many bad drawings out there for this plane, I just want to help them start the plane on an accurate base.

 It's harder to modify a 3d model after two months of work.

I know it's early, but I see the wings don't have the right shape in those shots.

 I just want to help.

 The modeler who did the Warthunder 81c had the same issues. He had to start from scratch after I sent him new drawings.

[Denum]

That's likely a proof of concept right now.

 

If they need more information they'll put up requests in the developer assistance corner. 

 

I don't suspect we will see this for a quite a while! 

 

Although nothing is stopping you from starting that thread and putting up the information that you have ?

Edited June 25, 2021 by Denum

[Jaws2002]

27 minutes ago, Denum said:

Although nothing is stopping you from starting that thread and putting up the information that you have ?

 

 I have some copyrighted material that I can't post online, but I could send it to the developers to be used for the model. 

[sevenless]

IAR 80/81 is great news.

 

I-153 and Hs-123 next?

 

[Jason_Williams]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

Thank you for the start on the IAR-8-/81. It' going to be a day one preorder for me.

   What version of the plane it's going to be modelled?  The performance was pretty close between versions and you could probably cover all versions with a single 3d model + weapon packs, like other planes.

   So what version is going to be the base model? There are some subtle differences between versions, but we do have good info this days that can help us get a very accurate representation of the plane.

  I'd like to help get the best representation of the plane, because there are a lot of old and bad drawings online and it would be a shame to start model the plane after bad drawings. 

  

I could help with high resolution drawings for the exact version of the plane that you want to model and a lot of details that are harder to find.

 

 

 

 

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have something you feel is necessary, just send it to me please. There is no need to beat around the bush. Whatever you send will be evaluated. 

 

Jason

[Jaws2002]

Just now, Jason_Williams said:

 

If you have something you feel is necessary, just send it to me please. There is no need to beat around the bush. Whatever you send will be evaluated. 

 

Jason

Awesome!  Thank you!

 

Will do.

[Denum]

We've got a good crew on iL-2. They'll pretty much take an ear to any data you provide them.

 

Some things don't happen as quickly as we'd like but that's life ?

[FlyingNutcase]

"... new AQM feature, fuel systems with drop tanks, Air Marshal and even improved cloud technology".

 

Happily pulling out my wallet with this statement, especially improvements to clouds. I never realized how awe-inspiring they could be until, err ya know.

 

Hopefully AI is also on the "big things" list.

 

Thanks Team, keeping me on the IL2 path.

[SOLIDKREATE]

Thanks @Jason_Williams, looking forward to the IAR! @ICDP Great work as always. From one skinner to another 'RESPEK'. Speaking of, I really need to release something. I've just been very busy with trying to buy a house. It's harder than you may think.

Edited June 25, 2021 by VA_SOLIDKREATE

[Rhan_N_Singh]

Thank you for that surprise!  Made my Friday.  Very excited to see that IAR-80.  Miss flying those from the olde days.  Big thank you to the mysterious third party and all the IL-2 team of course.

[Motherbrain]

Fantastic news about the IAR81!!

 

I'll be grabbing this unique bird ASAP for sure.

 

[Fafnir_6]

3 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Thank you for the start on the IAR-8-/81. It' going to be a day one preorder for me.

   What version of the plane it's going to be modelled?  The performance was pretty close between versions and you could probably cover all versions with a single 3d model + weapon packs, like other planes.

   So what version is going to be the base model? There are some subtle differences between versions, but we do have good info this days that can help us get a very accurate representation of the plane.

  I'd like to help get the best representation of the plane, because there are a lot of old and bad drawings online and it would be a shame to start model the plane after bad drawings. 

  

I could help with high resolution drawings for the exact version of the plane that you want to model and a lot of details that are harder to find.

 

I'm so happy for you man!  You've been holding out for so long, hoping for this.  It's great to see someone's dream come true.  For the record, I voted for the IAR in that poll for non-German-axis-aircraft all those years ago and this will be a day-one insta-pre-order for me as well.

 

Cheers and thanks to the team as always,

 

Fafnir_6

[=AD=uumembwa]

@Jason_Williams

I'll be glad to play with IAR, that cute beatiful plane, but i'm also waiting so much that sexy StuG with it lovely thick short thing that squirt high explosive rounds on enemy artillery...

[dannybooze]

I hope we see an I-153, i belive it would make a great addition to early war eastern front scenerios

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

@Jaws2002 Do you have charts of the IAR-80 speed vs altitude? One figure I see is 485 km/h at 5000 meters for the production fighter variant, but I was curious about how it is at sea level, if it has different supercharger speeds, etc.

[Boomerang]

Thank you Martin and Francisco, you're awesome! The community is lucky to have you both among us. 

 

Despite the inconvenience of a pandemic, thank you team/s for your consistent and hard/harder work we witness here regularly. Happy to be patient any which ways, as development is still happening to this day, therefore I sure am grateful. 

 

The IAR-80/81 looks amazing! Was that the same bird Flat Spin Man wished for quite some time ago?

It's a surprise all right, didn't see that one coming, but sure am pleased it's in development. 

Thank you.

 

[NN_Razor]

Iar 80 is a very good surprise for those who didn't wait for it. This is a testament of the  dev'dynamism. That's great!

Even if i would have personally preferred see the Yak 3..

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Yaaaaaaaasssss!!!! IAR !!!!!!! So happy

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

9 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

@Jaws2002 Do you have charts of the IAR-80 speed vs altitude? One figure I see is 485 km/h at 5000 meters for the production fighter variant, but I was curious about how it is at sea level, if it has different supercharger speeds, etc.

Yeah, it's a wierd altitude since the 5000m is way above the critical altitude of the engine at normal power, which is 1000 hp at 3,200m. With ram from high level flight speed, the top speed of the IAR-80/81 should max out at ~4000m at nomal power.

[rodgerdavies]

Wow, what a diary! I've never pre ordered anything for Il2 before... the IAR will 100% change that - can't wait to see more from its development; thanks so much for finding a way to get it into the game!

 

Will it be integrated with any of the campaigns (ie Stalingrad)?

Edited June 26, 2021 by rodgerdavies

[BornToBattle]

Chiming in late here. Excellent work and “thank you” both IL2 enthusiast for the 4K skins! The IAR-80/81 reminds me of a cross between a Corsair in its fuselage lines and a Zero in its cowling and prop spinner. But that’s just me. Looking forward to it! 

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Wow how could I miss that! The IAR 80! Fantastic news. 

[=FEW=Hauggy]

That Romanian plane will certainly be a nice exotic addition to the game along with the McI have a feeling it will be quite the underdog but theres nothing wrong with that.

[Noisemaker]

So... Battle of the Dnieper next?

[Avimimus]

 

[Flowchart removed due to inaccurate sources]

 

So here is my crude attempt to make sense of this aircraft.

 

It looks like the faster original IAR-80 with only 4x7.5mm is unlikely, since it would require modelling a different engine (and some changes to how it is mounted).

 

IAR-80/81 is ambiguous:

- IAR-80/81 could mean the early 80A/81 version (smaller wingspan, 6x7.5mm)

- IAR-80/81 could also mean the later 80B/81A versions (large wingspan, 2x13.2mm & 4x7.5mm)

 

If we get the cannon armed variants we might also get self-sealing fuel tanks and an armoured seat as options.

 

Cannons and bombs appear to be mutually exclusive options.

 

If I had to be I'd say 80B/81A are most likely, and would probably be extended to include the 81B or 81C cannon fighters as they all have somewhat similar wings. After that the 80A/81 might be less likely and the 80 might be least likely. However, I haven't looked at how many were in service during Stalingrad (and that might skew things towards the earlier variants). Also, there is a small chance that we could get five or six variants. It'd be pretty neat to have both wings.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Avimimus

[jollyjack]

IAR-80 series; nice, another fighter, but i'd rather see some larger allied bombers, even Ai if only.

 

[[CPT]milopugdog]

12 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

IAR-80 series; nice, another fighter, but i'd rather see some larger allied bombers, even Ai if only.

 

You mean the large allied bombers like the B-17, B-24, and Lancaster that the devs already said "no" to, but people keep yammering on about?

 

Now, I'm not so sure about you, but I for one welcome our new collector fighter plane overlords.

[Luftschiff]

WHAT!?
 

We're actually getting the I.A.R 80!? Be Still my Beating Heart! ❤️

 

Quote

"... new AQM feature, fuel systems with drop tanks, Air Marshal and even improved cloud technology".

 

And this? New cloud tech? 

 

You had my attention, my loyalty, my sword and my wallet--- but now you have my retirement funds too. 

I haven't been this excited about a DD since the first Focke-Wulf was introduced. Thank you to the team!

[Avimimus]

47 minutes ago, [CPT]milopugdog said:

You mean the large allied bombers like the B-17, B-24, and Lancaster that the devs already said "no" to, but people keep yammering on about?

 

Now, I'm not so sure about you, but I for one welcome our new collector fighter plane overlords.

 

Well... technically they said no to the B-17 and B-24 (too many gunners to be technically feasible) and to night fighter avionics/radar (too few resources) but they technically never said no to a Lancaster. Albeit they only flew a dozen or so daylight raids prior to the collapse of the Luftwaffe... but I'm sure some Wilde Sau missions could be flown against an AI Lanc as well as the daylight interceptions (e.g. the photo of a FW-190D9 attacking Lancasters)...

 

It may be more of an issue of them not having to bother to dispel our fantasies though... rather than there actually being a chance... but technically they haven't said it :p

Edited June 26, 2021 by Avimimus

[cashing]

Can one tell me please what is meant with new AQM feature? 

[LukeFF]

14 minutes ago, cashing said:

Can one tell me please what is meant with new AQM feature? 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by LukeFF

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

[Jaws2002]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

So here is my crude attempt to make sense of this aircraft.

 

It looks like the faster original IAR-80 with only 4x7.5mm is unlikely, since it would require modelling a different engine (and some changes to how it is mounted).

 

IAR-80/81 is ambiguous:

- IAR-80/81 could mean the early 80A/81 version (smaller wingspan, 6x7.5mm)

- IAR-80/81 could also mean the later 80B/81A versions (large wingspan, 2x13.2mm & 4x7.5mm)

 

If we get the cannon armed variants we might also get self-sealing fuel tanks and an armoured seat as options.

 

Cannons and bombs appear to be mutually exclusive options.

 

If I had to be I'd say 80B/81A are most likely, and would probably be extended to include the 81B or 81C cannon fighters as they all have somewhat similar wings. After that the 80A/81 might be less likely and the 80 might be least likely. However, I haven't looked at how many were in service during Stalingrad (and that might skew things towards the earlier variants). Also, there is a small chance that we could get five or six variants. It'd be pretty neat to have both wings.

 

 

 

It was a bit different, but you are right. It's all a bit muddy.

 

 

There was no version armed with Breda guns. The basic armament for the IAR came from FN in Belgium. 

 

*IAR-80 early had 4x7.92x57mm FN built Browning MGs. No bombs

 

*IAR-80A 6 x 7.92x57mm FN Brownings , a bit stronger motor, colimator. No bombs.

 

*IAR-81 BOPI (dive bomber)  6 x 7.92x57mm FN Brownings, 1x250kg + 2x50kg bombs.

 

*IAR-80B    4x7.92x57mm FN Brownings + 2x13.2x99mm Browning MGs. Pretty effective heavy mgs, with high rate of fire and explosive ammo. The cartridge is 13.2mm Hotchkiss, basically a US 12.7x99mm loaded with a 13.2mm bullet. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse_d'Avion_Browning_-_F.N._Calibre_13,2_mm

 

*IAR-80C  4x7.92x57mm FN Brownings +2x MG/FF No bombs. ( planned dive bomber version, IAR-81B, with this armament was ordered, but Romania got the Stuka from Germany and the planes were delivered as IAR-80C, without dive bombing equipment.

 

*Iar-81C 2x7.92x57mm + 2x MG-151/20 + dive bombing equipment + 1x 250kg bomb +2x50kg bombs. Most of this planes were used as fighter bombers with the center bomb rack removed. This is the most numerous version. around 154 planes built in this configuration.Later the planes came from the factory without the center rack or dive bombing  equipment.

 

*IAR-80M was just an upgrade of older six guns iar-81s. The planes were sent back to the factory and got the IAR-81C wing, but couldn't carry bombs, just drop tanks.

 

[Avimimus]

6 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

It was a bit different, but you are right. It's all a bit muddy.

 

Thanks! I've deleted my flowchart because my sources were bad. You're kind and polite in your corrections!

 

Do you know which variants are most relevant to Stalingrad and Kuban?

[Jaws2002]

12 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Thanks! I've deleted my flowchart because my sources were bad. You're kind and polite in your corrections!

 

Do you know which variants are most relevant to Stalingrad and Kuban?

 

Around fifty IAR-81 BOPI (six small guns + bombs ) and around fifty IAR-80B ( four light MGs and two Heavy Mgs) were sent to Stalingrad. 6th fighter group did dive bombing with IAR81 and 8th fighter group did fighter cover with IAR-80B.

   To kuban, in spring/summer 1943, Romania sent just German built planes, but the IAR fighters did cover for the fleet and fighter bombing during the retreat.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Avimimus]

4 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

Around fifty IAR-81 BOPI (six small guns + bombs ) and around fifty IAR-80B ( four light MGs and two Heavy Mgs) were sent to Stalingrad. 6th fighter group did dive bombing with IAR81 and 8th fighter group did fighter cover with IAR-80B.

 

Thanks! Any idea about what the units operating over the Kerch straights were equipped with? It was apparently Escadrila 43 of grupul 3 that was stationed there between 1942 and the summer of 1943 (where they finished re-equipping with the Bf-109G).

[LLv26_Hartman]

WOW, IAR 80/81 is a plane I will certainly pre-order. It was a nice plane to fly in old IL2. It would be nice to have some day Chaika, G.50 and Brewster Buffalo too in this game. 

Keep up the good work, your team is just awesome! Cheers!!! 

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

 

Thanks! Any idea about what the units operating over the Kerch straights were equipped with? It was apparently Escadrila 43 of grupul 3 that was stationed there between 1942 and the summer of 1943 (where they finished re-equipping with the Bf-109G).

 

 

"

In 1942 IAR 80As were issued to grupuri 3, 8, and 9 and escadrile 43, 52, and 53 as well as IAR 81s to grupul 6 as mentioned previously. Most of these were retained for home defence or escort missions over the Black Sea. Only grupuri 6 and 8 were assigned to provide air support for the Romanian forces in Russia. They arrived in October in company with the fresh divisions of the Romanian Third Army. Escadrila 43 of grupul 3 was assigned to the Kerch Straits area for coastal defence under German command. The Soviets launched their counterattack at Stalingrad on 19 November under the cover of bad weather that kept the Axis aircraft grounded. By the time the weather cleared on the 21st the Soviets had already decisively penetrated the defences of the Romanian Third and Fourth Armies. The weather intervened again on the 22nd and 23rd which prevented the Axis air forces from providing much air support to the beleaguered troops. Indeed, they often had to worry more about themselves as their forward airfields came under fire from the advancing Soviet forces.

The airfields of the IAR 80 units were considerably to the rear at Morozovskaya and Tatzinskaya and were more concerned with the flood of aircraft that arrived since they were now the closest airfields to the newly formed pocket than any Soviet threat. The situation was so dire that the IAR 81s of grupul 6 bopi actually flew missions on 12 and 13 December as dive-bombers rather than their more normal role as fighter-bombers. Support efforts switched to the sectors of Armee-Abteilung Hollidt and the Italian 8th Army from 18 December as the Soviet Little Saturn offensive made a bid to cut off the entire southern wing of the Axis forces in Russia. As part of this offensive the Soviets overran Tatzinskaya airfield on 24 December. This seriously disrupted the units based there as all unserviceable aircraft and supplies had to be abandoned. They resumed operations two days later much further to the rear at Novocherkassk, but at a much lower intensity. The decision had already been made to withdraw the remains of the Romanian Third and Fourth Armies on that date and most of the air units returned to Romania the following month. Escadrila 43 of grupul 3 was one of the exceptions and it was retained for the defense of Kerch Straits where it had been stationed for its whole tenure on the front. It participated in the heavy fighting over the Kuban Bridgehead in February-April 1943 before converting to the Bf 109G as part of grupul 9 later that summer."

 

http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/Aviation history/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/2/IAR 80 & 81.htm

Looks like i was wrong. Escadrila 43 remained on the front and was active all the way to April, with the IAR-80.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Jaws2002