Yaw2 Kickstarter, Pitch 70º & Roll 60º for 1090$

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

the Virpil joystick with extensions, dont want to have a side stick like an Aribus.

 

Completely agree with you on this center mount, I also have a Virpil (with Warthog grip) and extension.  This will be the first thing I will want to figure out since all of the videos show center controls on the "table."  If there isn't an easy solution based on the Yaw equipment, I am betting some of the Monster Tech mounts can be utilized.  I am using a Virpil throttle, but don't have all your other controls to contend with in VR.

 

Luckily for us a little further down the line, I am certain our Kickstarter crew will have all of this figured out for us and I can then apply my typical "monkey see monkey do" solution when mine arrives.

[Charlo-VRde]

2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Interested, but I worry about setting my controllers, have too many, the Virpil joystick with extensions, dont want to have a side stick like an Aribus.

Also Vitalys trim wheel, wheels for radiators, oil, throttle rpms etc.

Looks like pedals will be easy to put , but all the wires dangling might be a problem.

 

Any of you with lots of controllers getting one?

You can see my four controllers in my signature below, and I watch carefully how other Kickstarter backers keep pressing for side and center mounts for flight sim controllers and an IL-2 profile upon launch.

 

I expect I’ll figure something out based on what I do now with my Next Level Racing Motion Platform, but that it will be easier since the Yaw 2 will have some side mount options. I am already excited to have my pedals mounted to the Yaw 2 platform, which I don’t have with my current Motion Platform.
 

Since I have a smallish room available to me, I already know I will be limiting yaw to probably only 90°, which also eliminates my concerns with my Reverb G2s wire. I think most users will find 360° yaw unnecessary for full immersion in VR.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

My solution to fix the warthog joystick directly to the PlaySeat chair was very simple, it was done in 2014 and still working as a champ:

 

 

 

[J2_Seya]

Nice pic guys. I can't wait to see how we get this all setup. I run center stick warthog with no extension. I would love to get one. Hopefully we will have an easy way to get setup.

 

[chiliwili69]

On 7/23/2021 at 9:51 PM, J2_Seya said:

I can't wait to see how we get this all setup

 

Do you play with monitor or VR?

 

BTW, what the Yaw2 will do when we will do a full 360 barrel or a 360 loop?

[J2_Seya]

19 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Do you play with monitor or VR?

 

BTW, what the Yaw2 will do when we will do a full 360 barrel or a 360 loop?

I play both. If I'm bombing or recon I'll use my monitor. Fighting I will go with VR.

[Varibraun]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:30 AM, chiliwili69 said:

BTW, what the Yaw2 will do when we will do a full 360 barrel or a 360 loop?

 

I have been wondering about this also.  @Charlo-VR, how is your current platform handing passing through inverted?

[Charlo-VRde]

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

I have been wondering about this also.  @Charlo-VR, how is your current platform handing passing through inverted?

 

I happen to enjoy stunting inverted and doing barrel rolls in our game, and I can tell you that my motion platform, which is much more limited than the Yaw2 I pledged, rolls to its maximum limit (which is probably something like 10°), then adjusts to the other side to roll me back to center as I roll.

 

It's not nearly as intense as real aircraft aerobatics, of course, but I find it just enough to help with VR motion sickness. Last year I spent hours developing my VR comfort, then after I bought this motion platform and spend even more hours flying with a moving seat, I now find when the motion platform cuts out for a bit that I can get slightly disoriented again when the chair isn't moving. On a hot day of hours of aggressive MP dogfighting the chair sometimes needs to cool down - and that's when I especially notice how much my VR experience now also relies on chair movement.

 

How my current motion platform works is also how I expect the Yaw2 to act, only it will also have yaw motion - as much or as little yaw motion as I want or can fit in my office. A little motion goes a long way when in a VR headset, more so than in a motion simulator ride where you are looking at a monitor.

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, Charlo-VR said:

rolls to its maximum limit (which is probably something like 10°), then adjusts to the other side to roll me back to center as I roll.

 

And the shift to the other direction still feels like naturally completing the roll or loop because of the VR effect tricking the brain?

[Charlo-VRde]

Just now, Varibraun said:

 

And the shift to the other direction still feels like naturally completing the roll or loop because of the VR effect tricking the brain?

 

Yep, or at least reasonably so, though of course without the g-forces and pressure on my harness straps (which I wear when in quick-rolling planes like a FW-190 or La5).

[Charlo-VRde]

16 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

And the shift to the other direction still feels like naturally completing the roll or loop because of the VR effect tricking the brain?

Update to what I posted earlier- was doing barrel rows in a P-38 last night and after rolling past 10° or so my motion platform reaches it’s limit and simply stops rolling, without switching to the other side. It only switches to the other side if I reverse my roll direction.

 

It still feels pretty realistic, though, and adds to a feeling of realism. The Yaw2 should offer even more degrees of roll.

[Varibraun]

2 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

It still feels pretty realistic, though, and adds to a feeling of realism. The Yaw2 should offer even more degrees of roll.

 

Thank you Charlo - I look forward to trying it out...even if next year!

[chiliwili69]

In the last kickstarter update they mentioned the final degrees:

 

When you use the simulator you can limit the motion ranges and set how much power you want to use. Here all limits were set to the maximum and the power was about 30%. We made sure that the pitch, roll and yaw motions are all visible, so visually you can see how much it actually moves. This test run was done using the 3rd prototype but these numbers won’t change significantly in the final version. So as you can see it rotates 360 degrees, the forward tilt is 17 degrees and the backward tilt is 55 degrees. The left and right motion is symmetrical, it can go approximately 20 degrees in both directions. 

 

https://v.kickstarter.com/1630831040_29cb4008be5f9319ed83951c8fc3d719fe1c8ba8/assets/034/708/246/90f95ee97cc32ac166da604403a6e8a5_h264_high.mp4

 

They also said that they will be in the Flight Sim Expo 24-26 Sept in San Diego!

[Guest deleted@134347]

though this platforms looks pretty darn impressive I am seriously interested in the longevity of it.

 

The butt-kicker or any other low fq transducers introduce quite a powerful constant vibration to the setup. My VKB joystick is already showing signs of wear in some of its hat buttons where they occassionaly turn on/off by themselves. The USB interconnects between the seat and the stationary platform will probably be the first ones to go and you end up with a noddle factory hanging over the whole set up.

 

My point is that this kind of a setup must go through a rigorous mechanical stress testing for ALL of its components, more so electronics.

[chiliwili69]

I am afraid the stress tests will be the backers of the project...

Although I am not following the Yaw2 forum, they didn´t talk about stress tests in any of the updates.

 

But you are right, butt-kickers and similar devices could affect to the longevity of the Yaw2. I hope we could have spare parts if some of them is failing.

In my case I have just the JetPad simshaker, since it is between my body and the foam of the seat, I hope the vibration will be dumped enough to not affect any Yaw2 device or HOTAS.

[Charlo-VRde]

Yep, as a Yaw2 Kickstarter backer I will be stress testing it as soon as I receive it - but I probably won’t use my Buttkicker, as I, too, prefer my JetPad. 
 

Once I receive the Yaw2 (December or January maybe ?) I’ll be comparing the experience flying it to my current Next Level Racing Motion Platform v3, since my office can not practically fit both of those for very long. So, I’ll be deciding which I prefer to keep pretty quickly.

 

Then I’ll hope the seat I keep lasts a long time - it helps that both  are also target to off road racing games, which seem to be much more demanding on the seats.

[Guest deleted@134347]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:03 AM, Charlo-VR said:

I’ll be comparing the experience flying it to my current Next Level Racing Motion Platform v3

 

I actually have the same NLR v3.  How do you like it with IL2?

 

I've tried it out with DCS's telemetry 2-3 years back and it wasn't anything stellar, more confusing actually.

[Charlo-VRde]

3 hours ago, 30speed said:

 

I actually have the same NLR v3.  How do you like it with IL2?

 

I've tried it out with DCS's telemetry 2-3 years back and it wasn't anything stellar, more confusing actually.

 

Oh, I like it very much, to the point that when it temporarily shuts down because it needs to cool off (I live in Los Angeles), I can get a tiny bit nauseous because the seat no longer moves as it cools down.

 

I have some useful posts in this thread, which you have probably already seen, where I also explain how Next Level Racing guided me in adding surge forward and backward telemetry to their default IL-2 profile.

 

 

Warning to others: reading the above thread may cause you to spend thousands of dollars on a large toy that is difficult to explain to a spouse! ?

[paul_leonard]

Double down with a hot tub!

[Varibraun]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:53 PM, Charlo-VR said:

Warning to others: reading the above thread may cause you to spend thousands of dollars on a large toy that is difficult to explain to a spouse! ?

 

Speaking of which...was there a Yaw2 at the Expo this weekend and, if so, did you get to try it out?

[Charlo-VRde]

19 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

 

Speaking of which...was there a Yaw2 at the Expo this weekend and, if so, did you get to try it out?

That's coming up this weekend, and I'll be there on Saturday. I asked Yaw if they will have a profile to demo IL-2 on their new Yaw2, and they replied they will consider it. More than likely they'll only have something like X-Plane available, but perhaps my request will cause something to happen for Il-2, since I am a Yaw2 backer and may be one of the few backers who go to San Diego this weekend.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Charlo-VR

[Varibraun]

48 minutes ago, Charlo-VR said:

That's coming up this weekend, and I'll be there on Saturday. I asked Yaw if they will have a profile to demo IL-2 on their new Yaw2, and they replied they will consider it. More than likely they'll only have something like X-Plane available, but perhaps my request will cause something to happen for Il-2, since I am a Yaw2 backer and may be one of the few backers who go to San Diego this weekend.

 

Sorry, I was a weekend ahead.  I look forward to getting your in person impressions, especially since you already have a motion rig.  Fingers crossed they will have IL-2 profile ready for you.  At your suggestion, I also told them it would be great if they could add that when I preordered a couple of months ago.

[J2_Seya]

Charlo, I can't wait to hear what you think of it. Hopefully you have lots of fun.

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

Charlo you are a lucky guy, we will wait your review and please let us know if they can let you test IL-2

[Montana_*VR*]

I'm looking forward to your review Charlo!

Especially in comparison with the NLR v3 in terms of latency and how that huge range of motion affects the flight experience.

[Charlo-VRde]

My buddy and I found the Flight Sim Expo. much more GA focused with very little combat sim representation, and no warbird demos offered by any of the vendors. While there we met Dennis Wierzbicki who showed us his fantastic 3-D printed Spitfire IX controls https://authentikit.org/spitfire-mkix/  that he pulled out of his backpack.

 

Dennis was there to experience and review the Yaw2, which he had also backed on Kickstarter. Rather than write my own review, which would be quite rosy, Dennis approved my sharing here his review he posted this morning in the Yaw VR 2 Unofficial Group on Facebook. What he wrote very accurately also captures my own experience, though I may have enjoyed the Yaw2 even more than he did:

 

Dennis writes:

”Here's my overview of what I saw yesterday, and the same thing is posted over on the Yaw 2 Discord server:

 

I'll expound on these thoughts when I get my video edited and assembled, but I'll summarize here.

 

First of all, instead of three units, there were only two. Not sure what to make of this, if anything.

 

The Yaw 2 was a lot smaller and a lot sturdier than I had expected. It was almost completely silent, other than the click-clack noise of the components bumping into each other (in other words, couldn't hear the fans or the motors). Now, some of this might be the result of the high ambient noise level on the floor, but I shoved my microphone as close as I could safely get, considering it was whirling and pivoting. 

 

From a fit and finish standpoint, it looked nicer than I had expected. The standard black and white was very attractive and the black on black would fit in even a home office without looking too much like the game peripheral that it is. 

 

The fact that there was only one other motion simulator on the show floor, (the Einstein Project one shown above) and that it looked like something a home manufacturer would put together (the paint job looked like it was done with a brush) made the Yaw 2 look like the Belle of the Ball, but even stand alone, this is a very attractive, fairly small unit.

 

In operation, it was silky smooth. There were only a few negatives I sensed while riding. One was the frame rate would drop fairly often and I observed several stutters.  I meant to ask them what the configuration was of their show PC's, and it would help to know what their settings were for X-Plane, as I'm guessing we'll all be able to smooth that out on our own systems. 

Another thing that seemed to challenge the Yaw VR team is the device would get out of calibration fairly easily and relatively often, which would mean your view would be offset to one side of the other, or some level of recalibrating would be required, often from one user to another. They were using motion compensation, and it appeared to be within the Yaw software. I was surprised at how quickly the batteries drained on these devices, though. (Note from Charlie: Dennis means the Quest 2 headset batteries)

 

There was also an occasional lag between in-game motion and chair motion. Again, this may be more of a PC and/or Yaw VR software setting, but several of the "test pilots" commented on the lag.

 

Something that will come out when I do the video, though, is the design is far from being finished. I was expecting a much more finished, ready to ship product, and to be able to tick off one question after another, but many of the questions you folks wanted answers to have no answers yet.

 

Off the top of my head, things that are still under development are: The USB Hub (the number of connections and the location); The desk configuration (the one with holes in it is temporary, as is the mounting method); the Smart Plug, and its very existences (No smart plug was on the show units, and I was surprised when Zsolt told me they are still trying to determine IF there will be a SmartPlug on the Yaw

 

2);The configuration of the casters; how the casters will mount, and how much weight will be required for the counter weights (probably a function of waiting for the final weight and distribution to be determined); the method of mounting accessories on each side (the four holes shown above are not the final design - he mentioned there will be an option to mount a standard aluminum extrusion on each side); the footrest (Zsolt said it is close to the final configuration, but not final); The HDMI/DP pass through (Zsolt says they now think the HDMI might be too "old technology" and are seriously looking at offering a paid option for a Display Port pass through. However, the company in China with whom they are working still hasn't committed to a price at Yaw VR's volumes); there will be some sort of silicon base that will keep the device planted on smooth floors, and reduce, or eliminate movement and scratching, but they have yet to determine the exact configuration of this; a center mount for a flight stick (he mentioned they are developing a mount solution that will span the two footrest poles, but don't have the design completed).

 

All in all, there were more technical glitches than I would have expected, especially since there was a team of 4 or 5 Yaw VR folks there to keep things running. Hope this isn't a harbinger of challenges we mere mortals will be experiencing. 

 

It will likely not be until I return home that my overview video will be ready to be released. I'll do what I can to improve on this, but today's is packed with other activities, and tomorrow is a cross country travel day. 

 

In summary, I was impressed with the Yaw 2, and very impressed with the team. My expectations that what I would see would be a unit on the verge of shipping, with only a few minor tweaks and additions, were not fulfilled, though. Zsolt said they expect to to start shipping Kickstarter units in October, and have all pledged devices shipped out by January, but based on what I saw, this is a very optimistic projection, on both ends. 

 

All in all, there were more technical glitches than I would have expected, especially since there was a team of 4 or 5 Yaw VR folks there to keep things running. Hope this isn't a harbinger of challenges we mere mortals will be experiencing.”

 

To add to what Dennis wrote above, my buddy and I were more satisfied than Dennis was, though we wish the booth had had something more powerful than a laptop running an X-Plane Cessna as a demo. I did my best to fly like we do on the the Finnish server, and even though the frame rates and eye candy were (deliberately) much lower than I am accustomed to in IL-2, I’m excited at where the Yaw2 is going, and fully expect it to replace my Next Level Racing Motion Platform v3, which is noisier and has much less range of motion.

 

Until Dennis has posted his undoubtedly better-edited video that I will come back and add to this post, for now here are links to two videos of my demoing, both links to .mov files on Dropbox.

 

Update on 9/28/21: Dennis has posted his much better video at:

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Charlo-VR

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

Looks great but the FPS are awful in the second video. Thanks for the review 

[chiliwili69]

Many thanks Charlo for the review and videos. Trying to push the limits.

Everything is as expected in Kickstarters.

Apart from the usual unfinished details, everything is looking good. It looks small and at the same time sturdy enough for our use in reduced space (without yaw axis in may case).

Talking about that, How about the Yaw movement? this was new to you, how did you feel it when piloting the Cessna? (currently your Next Level is only pitch and roll)

 

BTW, it is also good to see that crashing movements are also simulated!  ?

[SR-F_Winger]

Interesting.
I own the NLR V3 too. I dont really miss that there is no Yawing.
But I imagine it would a be a "nice to have" when sideslipping while landing or in order to get a shot in in IL2.
I second Chiliwillis question on how important you would consider Yaw movement.
I actually think that up and down movement would be much nicer to have than yaw.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Winger

[Charlo-VRde]

@chiliwili69and @Wingerthe additional Yaw movement was very enjoyable, but you are both correct that we won’t notice it as much with our combat flying except when using rudder for landing shots or avoiding them (and I usually sideslip my landings to burn off speed and because it’s fun to do). As I have mentioned before, I plan to limit yaw motion for practical reasons (space in my office, simpler cable management, access to a keyboard when needed).
 

I was more pleased with the much larger pitch and roll range, and in my own case, that the rudder pedals also move with the chair. I never figured out a way to mount my Slaw Device rudder pedals (about 16 lbs / 7 kilos with the base included) to my Next Level Racing V3 motion platform, so those remain on the floor. Having the pedals also move with me in the Yaw2, and the actual swinging sensation that chair can impart with its greater pitch and roll, I anticipate combat in the Yaw2 will feel even more immersive!

 

It’ll also come down to Yaw2’s software, which I’ll need to experience with IL-2 to decide which chair I end up keeping and which I sell. 
 

I agree with @Wingerthat heave (up and down) motion may be more important as it may induce a feeling of g’s (a little movement in VR goes a long way in tricking the brain) - so I will probably wait for Yaw2 to also develop their heave motion before I take actual delivery of my Yaw2. They have tabled heave until after they have worked out all of the rest of the chair, and will offer backers the option of receiving a no-heave version earlier or waiting on delivery until after heave is also available. I enjoy the experience of my current NLR V3 motion platform enough that I can wait semi-patiently for the full Yaw2 experience.

 

But I anticipate the Yaw2 will be the winner

[Varibraun]

@Charlo-VR - Thank you for "Alpha" testing and posting for all of us!  A couple of quick questions based on the review and your comments:

 

-Did they discuss any center mounting options for joysticks without the desk?

 

-Will the Heave be a later modular add on option if you take delivery without it, or do you need to wait for it to be incorporated into the completed final design if you want it?

 

Thanks again! 

[Charlo-VRde]

26 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

@Charlo-VR - Thank you for "Alpha" testing and posting for all of us!  A couple of quick questions based on the review and your comments:

 

-Did they discuss any center mounting options for joysticks without the desk?

 

-Will the Heave be a later modular add on option if you take delivery without it, or do you need to wait for it to be incorporated into the completed final design if you want it?

 

Thanks again! 

Yes, they are still working on a center mount that they intend to attach to the poles that hold the rudder pedal platform. They didn’t have any samples yet. I told them I won’t need or use the desk they were using to mount the yoke, and a Yaw2 guy smiled and said, “That’s OK, you paid for one anyway so will still receive it.” I suppose if their center stick mount allows my CH Fighterstick to fit beneath that desk with no impediment to my hands and arms, I could put my keyboard and a trackball mouse on the desk when I am flying, though I’d have to fasten them or use something grippy so they don’t slide off. Their desk can be easily swung out of the way.

 

If their center stick mount  doesn’t work to my liking, I plan to modify what I use now with my NLR motion platform (and shown in photos earlier in this thread). There is a gap between the bottom of the seat and the plate the seat bolts to that I can use for that. I like being able to easily slide out my center mount stick to get out of the chair (ahem - you younger guys may not need to get out of your chair as often as we older guys ?).

 

About heave, what they refer to as their “gravity platform” - at the Expo on Saturday the Yaw2 folk couldn’t offer anything beyond what was posted in their Kickstarter update on Sept. 14, 2021, and I’ll quote that portion here:

 

“The development of the G-platform is slowly but surely happening. We did not forget about it but to be completely transparent here, we are focusing on the main device now. One thing that is worth mentioning though is that we will give the opportunity to everyone who pledged for the rotation platform and wants to get the gravity upgrade as well, to decide to wait for it. Such backers will be able to decide to just go with the platform and not include the gravity upgrade, hence receive their simulator just like the other backers, or they can choose to wait for the G-platform and receive the rotation unit later, that will already include the gravity upgrade. More details on this will be coming once we have a clearer timeline on the development of the G-platform.”

 

What this means is that the addition of heave will be added internally to the rotation platform, so will NOT be a separate, 3rd platform. This is good in that it keeps the total height of the chair to what you can see in the videos. What’s kind of bad is that you pretty much have to decide when you order if you want heave, since it won’t be a separate hardware box platform you can add to the rotation and pitch/roll platforms. In other words, if you later decide you want heave, that can only be added as a replacement platform for the non-heave rotation platform.

 

It’s even possible they can’t figure out heave for a long time, and of course, adding heave will be more expensive, but probably not prohibitively so if you are already willing to plunk down $3,000+ on a chair!

[Varibraun]

20 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

if you are already willing to plunk down $3,000+ on a chair!

 

I prefer to consider it a really really cheap aircraft vs. an expensive chair...so far, that perspective has carried the day with the boss! 

[J2_Seya]

8 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

I prefer to consider it a really really cheap aircraft vs. an expensive chair...so far, that perspective has carried the day with the boss! 

That is a great way to look at it. I'm so excited for this

[Charlo-VRde]

9 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

I prefer to consider it a really really cheap aircraft vs. an expensive chair...so far, that perspective has carried the day with the boss! 

 

Yup, my thoughts exactly - and I already have too many expensive hobbies!

 

Dennis (VR Sim Wizard) has just posted his video, which I have replaced in my (and his) review earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it here:

 

 

[chiliwili69]

From the launch party in Las Vegas, that lady is having a good time  ? 

 

https://youtu.be/oyIwEyz3QvU?t=12450

[Varibraun]

What are our Kickstarter Backers hearing lately regarding delivery dates?

[Charlo-VRde]

2 hours ago, Varibraun said:

What are our Kickstarter Backers hearing lately regarding delivery dates?

 

Yaw sends us weekly updates that are refreshingly candid. They are running 168 hour non-stop running tests on their latest iteration and hope to be producing the standard models soon, though they are cautious not to pin themselves down on a specific date - though it appears they will start shipping the standard model before the end of December. During a previous, recent test run they discovered they need to make some changes to their welding process, which they shared in an update. It's generally hopeful and about on time for a Kickstarter project, even though their original target shipping date was in September.

 

Those of us who ordered the "Pro" version will have to wait a bit longer, which I am fine with since I want to see the results of the standard models out in the wild so they can improve their design on the Pro. I have the luxury of enjoying a motion platform already, which helps me be so patient.

 

They are also behind a bit on the "G-platform" that will add heave to the Yaw 2. They realized a few months ago they needed to outsource that design. It will be a separate unit that can be added to the chair later, so I may receive a Pro chair without heave at first.  Heave will be a very exciting addition!

[Sudders]

Seems they'll need to find a way to manage a tethered headset. I don't fancy being strangled by my Rift S cable after the platform spins a few times ?

[Charlo-VRde]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:44 PM, Sudders said:

Seems they'll need to find a way to manage a tethered headset. I don't fancy being strangled by my Rift S cable after the platform spins a few times ?

 

True! There have been lots of discussion in the Yaw Discord channel about how to route tethered HMD cables from the ceiling.

 

With my experience using a Next Level Racing V3 motion platform for about a year now, I know I will be software limiting the yaw motion in my Yaw2 to something between 45° and 60°. A small amount of motion goes a long ways in VR, and frankly I don't have the room for 360° with my rudder pedals bolted to the footpad they are providing.

 

Today they released this first draft of an assembly video as they start to ship the first Standard models of the Yaw2 this week:

 

 

I pledged for a Pro model, so will probably have to wait another 6-8 weeks at minimum. Fortunately, my current "butt mover" works well in providing hours of immersive flight.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Charlo-VR