Jump to content

Time to solve the invisible object bug


Recommended Posts

The tank community is growing up, good news for the developers of Tank Crew.

Unfortunately the bug of invisible objects (trees) isn‘t fixed, which is annoying.

To run with your tank into an invisible tree ruins your engine, in a few cases with high speed you even could be killed.

Mostly it causes a respawn, which on online servers means very often, you loose one of the limited heavier tanks and have to continue mission with a papertank.

Same happens with the visible little wooden stuff in a village between the houses, which should be overrun by a tank so smooth that the crew shouldn’t notice that.

I ask the developers, why is it so difficult to fix these bugs as they are known since start of TC?

If so, could you please change the damage model script - maybe that is easier - that a collision with such objects doesn’t ruins your engine?

 

TC is great, we have lot of fun, it has potential to be the best WWII tank simulator.

But that bug sometimes drives you crazy.

 

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the temporary scripted solution. I do not see it posing too much problems gameplay except that people will rush in forest without taking care of real trees as well and will go faster than what is logical. Maybe ramming will not work anymore ? But anyway it is a bit rare and the way it works currently is a bit weird (I made a Pz4 explode by ramming it with a t34 :biggrin:).  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The real issue with fixing the invisible tree/indestructible object issue is time.  It's not a matter of putting a few lines of code into the game engine and they would all be magically eliminated.  Same for all the fence and barbed wire objects.  They have to be removed or have their code changed on an individual basis.  Given the size of all the maps in the sim, this would be a daunting task.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree with you more, what we are witnessing is a very popular WWII flight sim transform itself to include a ground war. It will take time to iron out all the issues. I am not sure the fix means they have to visit each tree/fence post on each map, or whether there are other issues related to the engine the game runs on, but I think the important message @Fritz_Faber is sending, and one that everyone including the Dev's would agree with I am sure, is that it needs to be fixed.

 

I am quite excited about the future possibilities of the IL2 GBS, and will continue to support it because of the proven value this franchise holds. Less than 24 months ago, there were no player controlled armored vehicle capabilities even available, and I am guessing the next 24 months will see changes that will be just as amazing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think so too.  The success of the tank side of things, I think, took the developers a bit by surprise.  There is a demand for a WW2 tank sim that bridges the gap between the "study sim" approach that Steel Beasts is, and the arcade gameplay of the "free to play/pay to win" games.  The GBS is that series.  It's the same space it occupies in the combat flight sim world,  slotting in between the tedium of the button mashing fest that is DCS, and the utter flying garbage of the above mentioned arcade titles.  It's a perfect blend of the basic necessities of combat simulation, and enjoyable game play.

 

I eagerly await the next phases of Tank Crew, Flying Circus, and of course the Great Battles WW2 air combat modules.  The devs are on the right track here.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I think so too.  The success of the tank side of things, I think, took the developers a bit by surprise.  There is a demand for a WW2 tank sim that bridges the gap between the "study sim" approach that Steel Beasts is, and the arcade gameplay of the "free to play/pay to win" games.  The GBS is that series.  It's the same space it occupies in the combat flight sim world,  slotting in between the tedium of the button mashing fest that is DCS, and the utter flying garbage of the above mentioned arcade titles.  It's a perfect blend of the basic necessities of combat simulation, and enjoyable game play.

 

I eagerly await the next phases of Tank Crew, Flying Circus, and of course the Great Battles WW2 air combat modules.  The devs are on the right track here.

Having voiced this exact sentiment here before and being shot down in flames for doing so, it is nice to see someone else repeat it. The only thing I would add is that IL2 Tank Crew should become the study SIM for WWII armor. That wont mean much to current military training, but I believe that the amount of interest in WWII armor is so huge, that it would have a major impact on IL2's bottom line if they could reach that level of recognition. Just hang around the WoT/WT forums and listen in on all the would be Commanders to get an idea of what I mean.

 

But being a SIM, just mentioning the phrase WarThunder, or the word "ARCADE" here can start a hot war, and I think most are missing the point. The military game world seems to boil down to two types of crowds, those that want as close as possible a real simulation of battle, and those that just want the quick action of jumping in a tank/plane and shooting things up. The mass majority of players are more into jumping into the quick action battle as opposed to learning all the nuances of what they are doing. So if the aim is to appeal to a larger audience, the question in my opinion is not how to get more people into the serious side of SIMing, but how to give a serious boost in realism to the quick action fix the majority of players are looking for.

 

Having a more realistic WoT/WT platform for those that want it would take nothing from those that want something more realistic. What it would do though is potentially add a significant number of players to the user base, and in doing so, would introduce a lot more players to the more serious SIM world. A bridge between the two types of players is the best way to do that. But it is hard to suggest that to the people that are already here because they mostly represent the one type of gamer (SIMer).

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, moustache said:

if you want, you can report these different bugs in this section, to help the devs to fix them ...

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/67335-invisible-objects/?tab=comments#comment-1029542

 

Considering that the invisible object bug has existed from the very beginning of player drivable tanks in IL-2 (years before tank crew was officially released), and that the topic was brought up and discussed countless times in the forums, it is by now completely unthinkable that the devs somehow magically don't know about it.

Yes it may be a good idea to report this, from a purely legalistic point of view.

That the devs might hide behind a "oh thanks for reporting this, we had no idea" kind of thing just drives me into a shaking, speechless rage.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes! the invisible trees must bo fixed at once!

I lost count how many times in a hurry to reach an estrategic position and been put out with 3 or 4 issues to fix and some crew wonded by hit something that is not there... if you multiply it by 5 or 7 times in one night of play its really annoying bug for sure.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Étant donné que le bogue des objets invisibles existe depuis le tout début des chars pilotables par les joueurs dans IL-2 (des années avant la publication officielle de l'équipage de chars), et que le sujet a été soulevé et discuté d'innombrables fois dans les forums, il est maintenant complètement impensable que les développeurs ne le sachent pas comme par magie.

Oui, cela peut être une bonne idée de signaler cela, d'un point de vue purement légaliste.

Que les développeurs puissent se cacher derrière un genre de chose "oh merci d'avoir signalé ça, nous n'avions aucune idée" me pousse dans une rage tremblante et sans voix.

the idea is not to absolve the developers, they know there are these bugs and don't hide it, nobody said that. but there are 5/6 maps, each of which is several hundred square kilometers, it is humanly impossible to correct that alone without help ....

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair TC was sold in connection with the Kursk/Prokhorovka map only. I‘m not sure, do we have the invisible object bug there too?

If not, we could have more online MP tank battles in this area?

It is more fun than counting and identifying all thousands of ghost trees and objects.

 

👻 🌲👀

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

That the devs might hide behind a "oh thanks for reporting this, we had no idea" kind of thing just drives me into a shaking, speechless rage.

 

It shouldn't, because the only map developed so far with tank combat in mind is Prokhorovka. With any other map, you take your chances with whether you'll encounter invisible objects.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I‘m wondering about the roadmap of the developers.

If I want to convince more people to buy my product TC I first would give all efforts to make the new game playable.

Instead they developing the DVD with great resources, a nice feature to visualize damages on tank surfaces, which nobody will see on MP servers ever because you don‘t have F2 to see your tank from outside!?
Hmm, I‘m no developer just a customer ... 😉

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fritz_Faber said:

To be fair TC was sold in connection with the Kursk/Prokhorovka map only. I‘m not sure, do we have the invisible object bug there too?

If not, we could have more online MP tank battles in this area?

It is more fun than counting and identifying all thousands of ghost trees and objects.

 

👻 🌲👀

I will do more missions on this map (we already discussed the different area of interest with ickylevel ) but it is not diverse enough in terms of landscape for my taste and I still want to propose missions on other maps, be it with the dreaded invisible trees :russian_ru:

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good news, tried the new yamki mission 👍

Landscape isn‘t so monotonous, you have flat land, hills, valleys, forests, villages .... 

So you don‘t feel a difference from the perspective of tank whether you are at Kursk area or Yuzhnaya ( Kuban).

Ok you don‘t have the cathedral of Köln 😉.

Anyway, to avoid collision with ghost trees sometimes feels good !

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Fritz_Faber said:

To be fair TC was sold in connection with the Kursk/Prokhorovka map only. I‘m not sure, do we have the invisible object bug there too?

If not, we could have more online MP tank battles in this area?

It is more fun than counting and identifying all thousands of ghost trees and objects.

 

👻 🌲👀

 

12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It shouldn't, because the only map developed so far with tank combat in mind is Prokhorovka. With any other map, you take your chances with whether you'll encounter invisible objects.

I did experience invisible objects on the Prokhorovak map near the airfield at Grushki, but this was about a year ago and may may have already been fixed. But in all fairness, Tank Crew is being marketed as an add-on to the GBS, and is supposed to be usable with all other maps.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LachenKrieg said:

But in all fairness, Tank Crew is being marketed as an add-on to the GBS, and is supposed to be usable with all other maps.

 

It is usable with all other maps, but many of those maps are years old now and were never designed with tank combat in mind. I wish all these invisible objects didn't exist, either, but for the time being it's probably going to be a matter of users and testers pointing them out and then them being fixed one by one. I know I have reported some of them myself. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue with the invisible objects is annoying.  The real issue that needs to be addressed is the totally unrealistic collision damage model. A tank should suffer no damage hitting an object at 15 kph. There should be no crew injuries. If the devs want to claim this sim is realistic. Then fix the collision and crew injuries.  Also a tank ramming another tank at offrod speed. Should do no damage other than making it impossible to rotate the gun that direction

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

It is usable with all other maps, but many of those maps are years old now and were never designed with tank combat in mind. I wish all these invisible objects didn't exist, either, but for the time being it's probably going to be a matter of users and testers pointing them out and then them being fixed one by one. I know I have reported some of them myself. 

Everyone realizes that some of the maps a very old. The point being discussed is the maps need to be cleaned up now that they are being used with ground vehicles. I have also reported a few.

 

I think it's fair to say that this will take time, but my point was that I don't think its right to tell those that bought Tank Crew they will be taking their chances. That isn't really compatible with being usable IMO. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

I think it's fair to say that this will take time, but my point was that I don't think its right to tell those that bought Tank Crew they will be taking their chances. That isn't really compatible with being usable IMO. 

 

Why not? None of those maps were made for tank combat, so it's not disingenuous at all to tell the user base "you can use any of the tanks on our maps, but be aware they were not made with ground combat in mind and so you may encounter issues with object collisions." Plus, there are apparently very few people who are working on maps for 1CGS, so it's not a simple matter of "just fixing all of these invisible objects already."

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

I think it's fair to say that this will take time, but my point was that I don't think its right to tell those that bought Tank Crew they will be taking their chances. That isn't really compatible with being usable IMO. 

 

I hit invisible objects when I was playing RoF.  It didn't make the game unplayable.  It's just like any other bug.  You report it and move on.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of this has been said before. It's not just the invisible trees (which I have encountered in the middle of an open field), it is the AI firing through buildings (which I guess happens because the buildings don't have obstacle boxes) and the wacky roads you encounter in some places. Only Prokhorovka was designed for tanks. They could help by disabling the 'all crew injured' effect, or making it server-configurable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunatly we had issues recently also on the Prokorovka map. Because of Fritz Faber we made new missions on this map (just kidding, we need new missions anyway :biggrin:), but there are still some invisible trees. Maybe less than in other maps though. 

2 hours ago, beresford said:

Most of this has been said before. It's not just the invisible trees (which I have encountered in the middle of an open field), it is the AI firing through buildings (which I guess happens because the buildings don't have obstacle boxes) and the wacky roads you encounter in some places. Only Prokhorovka was designed for tanks. They could help by disabling the 'all crew injured' effect, or making it server-configurable.


Regarding firing through buildings it depends on how it happens: Does the AI begin to fire at you without having had any line of sight before ? In my case for instance I get a lot of kills by firing through buildings after seeing that a player went hiding behind it. From what I saw, the shots seem to be less powerful or slightly deflected when firing through buildings or trees so there is less chance of hitting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Why not? None of those maps were made for tank combat, so it's not disingenuous at all to tell the user base "you can use any of the tanks on our maps, but be aware they were not made with ground combat in mind and so you may encounter issues with object collisions." Plus, there are apparently very few people who are working on maps for 1CGS, so it's not a simple matter of "just fixing all of these invisible objects already."

I think you might be missing the point though without realizing that we both agree some of the maps are older and were not originally made with tank battles in mind. Tank Crew is not being marketed with the bold text as an advisory. That is something you are adding.

 

I realize and completely agree with you, some of the maps are older and it is understandable that there may be issues. But it is not wrong for the user base to express their displeasure with those issues, especially considering the amount of time here.

 

I know the Dev team has a lot on its plate at the moment, and I appreciate all of the improvements/additional features that are constantly being added.

 

The BOS is one of my favorite maps, in fact I actually like it more than the Prokhorovka map, but it doesn't meant I am not disappointed when my tank becomes disabled because I hit an invisible object.

 

IMO, I think the reason it is taking so long to fix is because the problem involves more then just the invisible objects themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can’t fix all the invisible objects (understandable) then make it so tanks and crews don’t get damaged from running into them.

 

Guys in their planes push the on button and are in the air dogfighting within a couple minutes. I hop into a tank and depending on the spawn and availability of roads or bridges I could be land naving for 30 minutes with various 5 minute interruptions to repair.

 

I enjoy tank crew more than the air stuff surprisingly. The only two real gripes I have are the damage from invisible objects and the massive timesink to travel to engagement areas

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2021 at 2:26 AM, LukeFF said:

 

It shouldn't, because the only map developed so far with tank combat in mind is Prokhorovka. With any other map, you take your chances with whether you'll encounter invisible objects.


Except it happens on this map too so that's a bit of a moot point.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It is usable with all other maps, but many of those maps are years old now and were never designed with tank combat in mind. I wish all these invisible objects didn't exist, either, but for the time being it's probably going to be a matter of users and testers pointing them out and then them being fixed one by one. I know I have reported some of them myself. 

Isn't Velki Luki one  of the more recent maps  ?    That one, by far,  is the absolute worst map there is for invisible trees.  So the old map  theory doesn't wash.   What is really amazing is that there has been no one  address the wacky damage model for collisions with tanks going 12kph,  and crew injuries resulting from same.  Is that also due to older maps ?   In what reality  could a tank going 15 kph (9.3 mph)  or less  hit a tree, or an invisible tree  and suffer damage to the transmission, engine, steering, tracks and injure all crew members  ?    It's really comical when you are in commander position, unbuttoned and you see the front section of the PZ4  skirts fly off.  Totally ridiculous.  Fixing the invisible objects  is going to take a long time for each map.   How long will it take to get the collision  damage/injuries fixed and made at least somewhat realistic ?  THat would then make the invisible objects an annoyance  and much easier to live with

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

Isn't Velki Luki one  of the more recent maps  ?    That one, by far,  is the absolute worst map there is for invisible trees.  So the old map  theory doesn't wash.   What is really amazing is that there has been no one  address the wacky damage model for collisions with tanks going 12kph,  and crew injuries resulting from same.  Is that also due to older maps ?   In what reality  could a tank going 15 kph (9.3 mph)  or less  hit a tree, or an invisible tree  and suffer damage to the transmission, engine, steering, tracks and injure all crew members  ?    It's really comical when you are in commander position, unbuttoned and you see the front section of the PZ4  skirts fly off.  Totally ridiculous.  Fixing the invisible objects  is going to take a long time for each map.   How long will it take to get the collision  damage/injuries fixed and made at least somewhat realistic ?  THat would then make the invisible objects an annoyance  and much easier to live with

I agree!!! Fixing a collision damage and effects would make things more believable. Especially if the devs implemented the speed factor at which you collide with an object.It would make more sense if your tank just stopped,even the engine shut off.But not half of the crew is dead and the entire TANK is ruined! They responded to this report once and said that it will be fixed,but not right away.  So I'm gonna stay hopeful!😃

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Velki Luki (winter) was one of the oldest maps, starting as a mod by Zeus and then being included officially into the game. 

The recent summer version/repaint will have inherited issues as a map never designed for tank use

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, the Veliki Luki map was done by a third party, and was in development before TC was a thing.

 

Ah, just beat me to it Dak...

Edited by BlitzPig_EL
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

Velki Luki (winter) was one of the oldest maps, starting as a mod by Zeus and then being included officially into the game. 

The recent summer version/repaint will have inherited issues as a map never designed for tank use

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 


The map designed for tank use has the exact same issue.

A chorus of people reiterating a moot point doesn't make said point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, randybutternubs said:


The map designed for tank use has the exact same issue.

A chorus of people reiterating a moot point doesn't make said point.

 

"Isn't Velki Luki one  of the more recent maps  ?    That one, by far,  is the absolute worst map there is for invisible trees.  So the old map  theory doesn't wash.  

 

Above is an incorrect assumption, simple as that

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Postet now my suggestion from introducing above on main page ‚technical issues and bug reports/invisible objects‘:

to reduce the collision effect as a First Aid Kit.

 

As you all know the invisible objects bug will not be fixed soon. If the devs could minimize the consequences of collisions, less damage less injuries, TC would be more playable.

 

It should be easier and faster for the devs to change this issue than to find all the tons of invisible objects.

 

Hopefully anything is moving on!

 

Played today ickylevels  new mission on Prohkorovka map (AAS server), made long trips through the forest, there was not one collision with a invisible tree 👍🏻.

 

🌲🌲🌲🌲👨🏻‍🦯🌲🌲🌲

 

Edited by Fritz_Faber
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The answer of DED-Rapidus to my suggestion to reduce the consequences of collision with invisible or visible objects (on main page 'Bugs...') is:

 

image.gif.04e7934778977a11ae96673e534a6342.gifimage.gif.04e7934778977a11ae96673e534a6342.gif@Fritz_Faber, thanks, this approach is undesirable, because it is "healing" the consequences of the problem, and not its cause.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Relic said:

I suppose but it’s not just invisible objects that are a problem. As mentioned above, hitting a wooden cart shouldn’t cripple your tank

One "easy" solution should be to disable ALL DAMAGE by collisions at least when we still have this issue.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

 

"Isn't Velki Luki one  of the more recent maps  ?    That one, by far,  is the absolute worst map there is for invisible trees.  So the old map  theory doesn't wash.  

 

Above is an incorrect assumption, simple as that

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

How it it an incorrect assumption that the map built for tanks suffers the same problem as all the others?

It does... simple as that. o_O

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That map may be older than I thought,  I  just thought it was released  more recently than the others.  If a third party made this map,  shouldn't it be up to the developers of the game to exercise some due diligence and check it ?   It could very well be that this 3rd party used the same tools to create it.  If true then the map making tools themselves have an inherent error.     Fix the unrealistic and comical damage model for tank collisions and worry about the maps after that !

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...