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I think the days of theater and multi-year releases are over. The aircraft models are too complex, player expectations are too high and money is rather scarce.

 

I think you are right.  It is too bad CloD did not communicate better with their customers.

 

I think Jason and the 777 studios bring a good business plan to the table.

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Yep, I think Russia is the most important country in the combat flight sim market. That's why they always have their own forum

 

I agree.. I think that is also why so many sims come from there..

 

I'm a big Flying Tigers fan and a Midway fan. Hopefully, someday.

 

Jason

That's right come to think of it.. Isn't that where the 777 comes from the AVG group in China? That was the name of your squad back in the day.. Jason "Burnin" Williams right.. (This all came back to me.. ask me what I ate for breakfast Wednesday and I'm stuck..LOL.)

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I think the days of theater and multi-year releases are over. The aircraft models are too complex, player expectations are too high and money is rather scarce.

 

Current trends are undeniably pointing in that direction. The BoS approach seems quite similar to the one taken by Battlefront with their Combat Mission game, which is split into a number of "families" (so far ETO 1944-45, East Front 1944-45, and Italy) which are then split into "modules" that are sold separately.

 

That seems to work out nicely for them, and I hope it will for this series too.

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The reasons are obvious as to why they are doing BOS. Now being partnered with 1C.. they are going to use as much from the BOM project as they can to make up time for the BOS project. They have already shown that they can port over the aircraft models which will save them alot of time and money. Hopefully alot of the objects can be ported over also. The way I see it, they will be using this project and theater to kick start this endeavour. Using their engine and what ever they can from the BOM project it only makes financial sense to do it this way. Perfect situation really other than an unlimited budget..

1. Its the Eastern Theater ( back to the IL2 roots and Russian fan base)

2. Most cost effective way to ( pull the flight sim genere back up to maybe where it was 10 years ago ..hopefully)

3. A business model that works and will allow the future theaters to become a reality in time with our support.

4. Hopefully continuing to work on the DN engine adding features that we are asking for. ( Cant wait to try and take off on a carrier that is pitching and rolling in that new water model that they showed us in the channel map videos!) I think they even mentioned submarines! Can they submerge and dive in the 3d water model.. heh

This could be an incredible journey for us Sim& Sim/Game enthusiasts...with continued support!

 

Thanks again 777 and 1C

Jason and Devs

 

Exciting times ahead! S!

 

Looking for my P40 and some 50cals S! ;)

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I agree.. I think that is also why so many sims come from there..

 

 

The sims come from there because it's the only place where they can afford experienced programmers. The west has priced itself out of the market.

North Africa/Med would make a lot of sense. Lots of model content they've laying around from BoB could be used. 

 

Start with Khalkhin Gol/Spanish civil war and then work their way up to the end of WW2. This way you can gradualy introduce

new aircraft and upgraded marks as the war continues. If you start with late war scenario's only uber aircraft are going to be  competitive.

Dogfight servers full of late war, souped up warbirds will be the result. 

 

The strength of Il2 for me is the battle of the 'crap' planes in the right historical context or the QMB. A Fokker DXXI during May 1940 had a hard time against the Luftwaffe.

Same with the Brewster Buffalo in Singapore in early 1942. In Finland  they were taking names and kicking butt with both these types.

 

If I'm going to pay a la carte for some of these aircraft they better be competetive. Staying chronological with the theatre releases will ensure this somewhat. Buffalo in 1942 vs

Japanese Zero's probably means no a la carte money from me. In a Finland in 1941 scenario I pay a king ransom for the thing because I'll be able to use it more

competitevely. I know, I know, it's the pilot not the plane. Ever try to catch a He111 with a PZL11, 109 and 110's flying top cover? Not much fun.

 

Point one: Release aircraft in competitive pairs.

Point two: Give us a good QMB a la RoF or Il2. (CloD screwed this up royally) When I don't have much time all I want to do is a quick dogfight with aircraft of my choice.

                 This saved RoF for me when there was no Campaign an the only online was Quake around a lake. Same for Il2, 11 years and counting the, QMB is what keeps

                  me coming back, even with generic maps.

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76SQN-FatherTed

Personally, I'd love to go back to BoB, as that's what really interests me.  I'll stick with BoS in the hope that we'll get BoB in due course, but I'll enjoy BoS while I'm waiting.

 

Incidentally, I read somewhere that the Russian government is very interested in commemorating the "Great Patriotic War", so I think there are financial incentives for Russian games companies wishing to depict that theatre.

 

For financial reasons I think we'll see all the traditional theatres and planesets come first.  As pointed out in another thread, forum posters constitute a small minority of the customer base, and tend to be the most committed and knowledgeable.  While a lot of people here would enjoy flying the "crap" planes, most customers in the West want Spitfire/Bf109/P51/FW190, at least initially.

 

As someone pointed out elsewhere, there was a lot of clamouring on the RoF forums for early war planes (DH2 and EIII), but uptake for them hasn't been that great.  Sure, the enthusiasts who clamoured for them paid out, the larger proportion didn't see the fun in planes that don't fly that well and aren't competitive.

 

I know it's a bit heretical and people will say I'm not a true simmer, but I don't see any of the more interesting planes or theatres being produced unless BoS is wildly successful

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I have to agree, Father Ted.

I liked the Eindekker and also bought the DH2, but man the latter is a dog to fly. I'm pretty into the genre and still found it unappealing so I'm sure most newcomers would zoom past it to more familiar, sexier planes. Same with SCW. As much as I'd like to see it just for variety's sake and to acknowledge the real event, I still haven't gotten around to trying the free mod in IL2 46 yet, so can't imagine thousands flocking to a shop to buy it.

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That's right come to think of it.. Isn't that where the 777 comes from the AVG group in China? That was the name of your squad back in the day.. Jason "Burnin" Williams right.. (This all came back to me.. ask me what I ate for breakfast Wednesday and I'm stuck..LOL.)

 

Jason's a graduate of University of Nevada-Las Vegas.

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  • 1CGS
Jason_Williams

Here is the real story of the 777 AVG.

 

 

BACKGROUND:

 

As WWII broke out across Europe and Asia, the United States remained a neutral country. However, many of her pilots did not and volunteered to fly and fight with foreign Air Forces against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

In the spirit of the Lafayette Escadrille of the first Great War, American pilots formed American Volunteer Groups or AVG's on foreign soil. Groups such as the Flying Tigers in China, the Eagle Squadron in Great Britain and the French Normandie Niemen on the Eastern Front became household names and their exploits the stuff of legends.

 

In June 1941 Adolf Hitler unleashed Operation Barbarossa and invaded the Soviet Union. The German blitzkrieg rolled back the Soviet defenders. The first days and weeks of the invasion were devastating to the Red Air Force. Hundreds of Soviet aircraft were destroyed on the ground and superior German warplanes dominated the sky. The mighty Luftwaffe had gained air-superiority over the VVS. Unless the tide could be turned, the German army was certain of capturing Moscow and the whole of Russia.

 

Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin turned to the United States for help and in a secret telegram asked President Franklin Roosevelt for war assistance in the form of tanks, trucks, ammunition and aircraft. In November 1941 President Franklin D. Roosevelt agreed to extend the Lend-Lease Act to the U.S.S.R. Over the next four years thousands of aircraft were sent to Russia to stem the German onslaught. U.S. built P-40's, P-39's, B-25's, A-20's, and P-63's were used in large numbers to defeat the Nazi invaders.

 

FORMATION:

 

During the summer of 1941 FDR agreed to allow a select group of American fighter pilots to travel to China and fight the Imperial Japanese. This group was to become the famed America Volunteer Group, the Flying Tigers. As the Flying Tigers were preparing to depart for China, FDR allowed the formation of a second AVG. This AVG was destined for the Soviet Union.

 

Since America was still neutral in the war, both AVG???

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That story was great - the style and details had me going for a start. I even halfway thought you must have named your company after your namesake's unit. About that time I finally started wising up.

This would make a fun campaign - or comic book.

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Even though I would love to see the Med or China I don't think thatthe BoB would necessarily be a bad move. If they could use some of what was already done from 1C it would cut developement time and they could actually wtay ahead of the curve by starting on theater 3 half way through finishing the new BoB. I think that if BoS is done well then it will be a no brainer for the next project. Just look at what the mention of this sim hs already started. This forum is 2 days + on 3 weeks old and 11 shy as of this post of 3000 members.

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Jason_Williams

That story was great - the style and details had me going for a start. I even halfway thought you must have named your company after your namesake's unit. About that time I finally started wising up.

This would make a fun campaign - or comic book.

 

We used to fly COOP missions in IL-2 based on the 777 history above. Was a lot of fun. I also have a story written about American volunteer bomber pilots in France during WWI, but I never formed a squad in ROF due to little time for casual flying. I also have a sci-fi story written up that I hope someday to turn into an actual novel or graphic novel.

 

Jason

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Jason used historical missions with P-39s and IL-2s againts Bf109G2s. IL-2 1.0 was very rough for AVG Cobras, but, the 777 did a job.

Edited by Faustnik
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=69.GIAP=YSTREB

What should the correct chronological order be for the air war in WW2? Here's my shot..feel free to correct as required:

 

- Battle of Poland - 1939

- Battle of France - 1940

- Battle of Britain - 1940

- Battle of the Med (Greece, etc) - 1941

- Battle of Malta - 1941

- North African campaign - 1941-43?

- Pearl Harbour - 1941

- (Initial) Battle of Russia - 1942

- Battle of Stalingrad - 1942

- Battle of Singapore/HK - 1942

- Battle of Coral Sea and Midway - 1942

- New Guinea 1942 - 1945

- Beginning of 'Air War over Europe' ie. USAAF raids into France/Germany/etc

 

....what else?

WTF

only 2 soviet theater?

 

where is Barbarossa, khalkhingol, fall of Berlin, crimea, ... etc

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Truly amazing story Jason,superbly written, guess you are a man of many talents. 

 

It would make a superb campaign for sure, guess for the time being it will have to be in IL-2 1946. ;)

 

Now where is the QMB, I feel the need. :)

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete. :D

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-NW-ChiefRedCloud

With all due respect to ALL our desires for battle fronts or areas of operation, I do not blame the devs here for wanting to create something that is historically special to them. I.e. Battle of Stalingrad. If this was an American or British team I would expect no differant in that those AO's would most likely reflect their countrys history. We can but hope, as Jason stated, with our support, other theaters can be projected.

 

For all it's short comings, I still like BoB even though the time period, 1940, only reflects American Volunteers at that time. BoB was the prelude to just about all of it. We can only hope that the devs can produce something with BoS that they can be proud of and WE can really enjoy flying. Time will tell I guess.

 

And your story is a GREAT backdrop to this new project .... thanks Jason

Edited by ChiefRedCloud
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Even though I would love to see the Med or China I don't think thatthe BoB would necessarily be a bad move. If they could use some of what was already done from 1C it would cut developement time and they could actually wtay ahead of the curve by starting on theater 3 half way through finishing the new BoB. I think that if BoS is done well then it will be a no brainer for the next project. Just look at what the mention of this sim hs already started. This forum is 2 days + on 3 weeks old and 11 shy as of this post of 3000 members.

I would certainly like to see this.

In all the BOB scenarios I've flown over the past few years, I've never had the feeling of actually completing the scenario. Seems that developers move on to other maps before refining the aircraft, missions, objects and such to fully flesh-out this period of WWII.

 

I would really look forward to 777 tackling this timeperiod and taking it to the next sequential stages of WWII in chronological order.

 

Cheers

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True.. but i think all things considered the eastern Front is not a bad place to start. Don't forget.. this is IL2.. I think that where they go after BoS will be very important.

An interesting approach would be to look at the Winter war, November 1939 - March and the Continuation War which ran from June 1941 to September 1944. 

 

Finland:

 

Brewster Buffalo

 

Fokker D.XXI (Mercury and P&W 1830)

 

V L Myrsky

 

Bristol Blenheim

 

Bf 109

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