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Battle of Britain


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I hope that the MG-Ubi cock up with a certain US aircraft manufacturer isnt repeated ;) There must be hope as a DCS 3rd party is doing a Tomcat.

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I am with you on that one!

 

One of my favorites was Microprose's "Pacific Air War".  The player had strategic control of the fleet being able to send out search planes. When the enemy was located, you choose the strike package makeup then could take part in the mission and have a part to play in the outcome.

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One of my favorites was Microprose's "Pacific Air War".  The player had strategic control of the fleet being able to send out search planes. When the enemy was located, you choose the strike package makeup then could take part in the mission and have a part to play in the outcome.

 

Was this '1942 Pacific Air War'?

 

IF so that was one of my first sims...but I was too young to figure out how everything worked! Loved every bit of it, though.

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[ASOR]Pharoah

My fav was Aces over Europe - thats got to be an excellent WW2 sim. I think I mentioned somewhere else how good the offline campaign was ie.

 

- you choose your squadron based on RL squadrons at the time...you get to see what a/c they fly and what kind of missions they do (eg. Spits/hurris/mossies/etc).

- you could hit autopilot and the a/c would fly off to the next waypoint. It would only stop at your waypoint or if enemies were near. I'm not talking sitting in your cockpit - this was like a fast forward type thing.

- lots of enemy a/c, ground targets, etc.

- so many other good points (for the time).

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There is much we would like to make in WWII. We can only get there with your support.

 

Jason

 

Exactly.. and this is the thing that most of us need to keep in mind.. Even if some of us feel we were burned by CoD..

 

I'm looking forward to BOS,

 

Me too....  I just hope it isn't like the last 3 WWII sims I bought .. because if it is I am done but I am more than willing to give this a chance.

 

If the BOS theater is done well the support will be there, then like stepping stones the other popular choices people have, could follow...hopefully

 

I agree..

 

Yep me too Slipball, I'll be getting BOS to support 777 and our rather niche genre, I do enjoy ROF even though I'm not really a big WW1 buff, so I'm sure I'll enjoy BOS.

 

I agree..

 

Any major theater gets my vote. I don't care much for the Aleutians or Manchuria, but pretty much if they made a movie about it I'd be game to have it included.

 

Me too.. as long as BoS is done well I think it can happen.  and if these things are done well it will fly. I just hope that things like being able to make custom skins etc is there.. WoP would have fared much better if it had a mission builder and the skinning feature was nice but it was wonky.. Personally I think that whatever BoS is it will be at least as good as IL2 and RoF.. I just don't see this thing going backwards.. or sideways.

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4./JG53_Wotan

IMHO they should be focused on a threater that has the largest consumer base. I love the Eastern Front - any battle / period. However, in terms of generating sales and bringing in customers the Eastern Front may not have the widest appeal.

 

If it were me I would have started in the Med, - sometime after Torch. However, they may not have the resources to pull that together given variety of aircraft and the scale of the theater.

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True.. but i think all things considered the eastern Front is not a bad place to start. Don't forget.. this is IL2.. I think that where they go after BoS will be very important.

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What's the title of Eric Brown's book please? (If it's 'Wings on my Sleeve' what chapters, its a long time since I have read it)

 

Yes Wings On My Sleeve,  but I don't remember the chapter.  Point is he was a Fleet Air Arm pilot and was on one of the escort carriers "Audacity" which was torp'd in the Bay of Biscay.  Those were not the kind of huge CV's which the USA have but converted ships for a short flight deck for Marlets (F4's) to operate from.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escort_carrier

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I think Stalingrad is very appealing to the developers for three main reasons:

 

1. It's Russian (duh).

 

2. Limited planeset compared to later in the war.

 

3. Decent name recognition outside Russia as well.

 

I'm hoping they will go for the same modular approach that Battlefront has sucessfully taken with Combat Misson, i.e. a set of game "families" that are then expanded via modules. This keeps development times down, revenues up, and seems to make customers at least somewhat happy. From the Stalingrad base game they could then branch out to cover other east front battles in, say 1941-43.

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Afraid you are,  sort of.  Look up "Escort Carriers" and read Eric Browns book.  

 

Yes, is started from the attack over Tarento, to the fight for crete, and convoys like pedestal to replenish Malta's fighters. There was even an american carrier involved in the task of replenishing Malta`s fighter garrison. It was later sunk by japaneese.

 

Sorry, I'am travelling and this posted too late.

Edited by rps69
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Is it possible that the main reason for Stalingrad as first release is not by choice of popularity, but rather    because there is already a lot of salvaged  work that was done by 1C and that is why it is feasable within 18 months ?

I even think that they could do the same with a new BOB version quite quickly, but it would not be marketting wise. 

 

Salute !

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Maybe.Personally I think the player base is much much bigger in the East.

 

Yep, I think Russia is the most important country in the combat flight sim market. That's why they always have their own forum

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I don't think the chronological idea is ever going to happen. It's too inflexible and unrealistic from a commercial perspective. China '37 or Poland '39 I don't see as being big sellers.

 

I've no problem with the Eastern Front, and Stalingrad if done well could have a lot of scope for varied missions (Ju52 resupply in snow storms, etc). If they get the ground aspect going properly it could be very interesting.

 

Instead of a chronological approach, my view is that there are 3 main theatres to be addressed:

 

The Eastern Front

Western Europe (including the Med / N. Africa)

The Pacific.

 

Each theatre has varying locales/fronts and different timescales so each one could have a lot of content required to deal with it in depth - e.g. for the Russian Front there is Barbarossa 41, Winter 41, Leningrad, Finland, Caucusus, Crimea, Stalingrad (Summer and Winter), etc, etc. Some fronts can re-use the same map for different periods which means there is a nice leveraging of the development work. Perhaps the best example of that would be an English Channel/France/Low Countries map that could cover from May 40 through to June 44.

 

For best results commercially I would suggest that major releases in the series should probably not get bogged down on one theatre  - so, as the first instalment is Stalingrad, the next should probably be Western Europe (the Pacific would sell but I suspect the development would be more demanding if carriers are going to be included.)

 

A lot of voices are for the Med / N. Africa and while I would have no problems with that I think the case for a Channel map is probably stronger. Provide the map and an initial planeset for either BOB or 42/43/44 in the next release.

 

After an initial major release in each theatre subsequent minor releases can use the existing maps and supply new planesets and game elements.

 

This is basically the plan from original il-2 rehashed, but it makes most sense commercially I think.

 

The criticism I could see some making is "Oh no, not P51s and FW-190s over Normandy AGAIN!?". Fair point, but I think the best way of establishing a strong foundation and increasing the probability that we get to the more obscure theatres is to pull people in from the start with the big stuff.

 

So - a series of major releases starting with Eastern Front, then into Western Europe, with smaller minor releases (or maybe ROF style additional aircraft and features) to flesh things out and keep things moving.

 

------ ------- --------

 

A big question for all this is the development capacity of the newly merged 1C/777 team. Going by 777's past release schedule alone it would take a long time to get the above plan producing results. Ditto (even more so 1C!) . So, how much has the size of the combined team increased? What additional pace can we hope for in completing new game elements?

 

Initially the focus will be on updating the engine to cover WW2. COD had plans for external 3rd parties to become involved once the engine was established and successful. Could that be a goal for the new DN WW2 engine if the initial response to Stalingrad is good?

Edited by kendo
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LBR=H-Ostermann

Actually with 777's marketing strategy, buying the a/c as they are produced, it might work to do the whole war from start to finish. Only one map would need be made for Poland, and it might just as well, if this is to be an eastern theater sim in the first release. After all the Russians fought through Poland twice, once as Germany's allie and later as their enemy. One map to fit two epochs of the war would work.

 As for the PTO, Russia did invade China near the end, though it wasn't as protracted as in Europe since the end was near. But there again, one map for that scenerio and throw some P-40's in (Russian lead lease) with the right paint job and you can cover a good deal of the early war in China.

Chronological  order is unnecessary. Just fit the pieces in the puzzle as they come up. Of course not everyone is interested in every theater of the war, but many will by all the a/c and maps just to have the complete set for the game..

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Exactly, and, we get P 40s.

 

:D

 

Some times I get the impression that you like them P-40's ElAurens. :P

 

On subject, 30's China yes please!

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Flying Tigers, 'nuff said. Also check my profile picture. You know you want it too. Just do it already. Pretty please!

 

You know that s a great idea too..  Come to think of it I don't think it has really been done .. Not recently as a self contained project..

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You know that s a great idea too..  Come to think of it I don't think it has really been done .. Not recently as a self contained project..

 

Oh yes, that would be great! WIll make a great campaign as well.

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79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer

Actually Jason, if you recall, when Oleg asked for a vote on the next theatre after BoB, the overwhelming winner was the Med.  The air war in the desert has never been done properly by any studio/producer.

 

+1

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The only problem with doing a proper Flying Tigers add on would be China itself.  Or, rather the People's Republic.  They would never allow a game to be sold that depicted aircraft with correct Chinese markings of the time.  And  as we all know, China is a huge market, and one that no business can ignore.

 

 

Sad really.

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Hm that'sa  good point El Aurens, the People's Republic would probably not be to keen about a product like that. Still, one can dream since Jason is the one with the numbers to figure out if that would be a problem.

 

That said, I'd also very much like to see a Battle of France early campaign. Early 109s fighting it out with Dewoitines, Hawks, Dutch and British Hurris and the odd early Spitfire gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside :D

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That said, I'd also very much like to see a Battle of France early campaign. Early 109s fighting it out with Dewoitines, Hawks, Dutch and British Hurris and the odd early Spitfire gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside :D

 

Heh, might as well throw in a Fokker or two, then :)

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Why not make a Solomons map with Midway Island in the FAR upper right corner? :D

 

Midway itself may be a little too short to base an entire title on :) Maybe it's a good add on though.

 

VMF-212

 

3_4_b1.jpg

 

VMSB-231

Vought-SB2U-Vindicator-Title.jpg

 

Yes I'm biased :D

Edited by exhausted
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I had hoped RoF/777 would get into the WWII market with a Flying Tigers sim.  I recall this being something Jason was interested in maybe before he got involved with RoF, can't quite recall to be sure.  But I would enjoy a Flying Tigers over China sim almost as much as I'd enjoy a Pacific carrier aviation sim, something that has been mentioned as a possible destination by the developers.  I get BoS, operation Uranus, as a starting point but it doesn't lift my wig so much, they can be assured of my custom though.

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"This theatre holds no interest"

 

I really don't understand comments like this and to be honest it gets on my wick! People were saying that when CloD was announced. "Yeah .......the Battle of Britain, I'm not interested in that". So let me get this right, your not interested in one of the most pivotal air battles of WW2? Then maybe combat flight simming is not for you.

 

Battle of Stalingrad............. I am interested, Mediterranean theatre......I am interested. And I am interested in any combat flight sim theatre that is done well. These small small development teams who work in this niche industry need to be supported as it all furthers the art of what we, the punters the kids who grew up wondering, "my god what was it like"  are into, doesn't it?

 

I want flight combat flight sims to be here for the next 10 years and beyond and therefore if its done well  I'll be buying it. End of!

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Well if China would kick off about a flight sim with Nationalist Chinese markings, it could always be an extension of a Burma campaign. To be honest though, what could China do? If Jason is man enough to face a crowd of flight sim enthusiasts day in and day out, three million Red Chinese troops beating down his door should be no problem!!! :D

 

Seriously though, if you're looking for a theatre that's never been done to my knowledge, what about the Spannish Civil War?

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I'm a big Flying Tigers fan and a Midway fan. Hopefully, someday.

 

Jason

 

Been pushing for a "China" map for IL2 for years.  Unfortunately I am not a computer graphics wizard, so I'm afraid I am not able to help in that kind of way.

 

The whole air war over China, from 1937 to the end of the war is one of the most fascinating, and under considered theaters in all of flight simulation.  You have aircraft from just about all the major combatants, often flying on both sides, participation by Russia, in addition to the more known suspects.  So many aircraft types, from interwar biplanes to late war hot rods.

 

I hope that at some point we can see a bit of this.

 

And I am a bit biased myself, as there were a lot of Curtiss aircraft commited to this theater.

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Been pushing for a "China" map for IL2 for years.  Unfortunately I am not a computer graphics wizard, so I'm afraid I am not able to help in that kind of way.

 

The whole air war over China, from 1937 to the end of the war is one of the most fascinating, and under considered theaters in all of flight simulation.  You have aircraft from just about all the major combatants, often flying on both sides, participation by Russia, in addition to the more known suspects.  So many aircraft types, from interwar biplanes to late war hot rods.

 

I hope that at some point we can see a bit of this.

 

And I am a bit biased myself, as there were a lot of Curtiss aircraft commited to this theater.

 

Yep yep, same here, could be 1c777's "pandaria" if they play it right :)

 

The old '46 incarnation of the engine was a bit of a dicey prospect for jungle/mountainous kinds of maps because it didn't really handle trees well beyond flat forests and had problems representing non-sea level water, but DN seems to be able to get around both of those issues. 

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With Jason being interested I have high hopes of seeing this theatre done properly some day.  The variation offered by such an expansion would be huge, not only in the air but also on the ground and lastly also a very nice experience graphic wise seeing that the sprites used for vegetation in the DN engine have no issue with frames in areas with very dense vegetation and unique terrain (take the NE most area of the current RoF map in the QMB as an example).

 

Also, of course Fokkers would be a must have for a BoF scenario, as would be the Potez series 63 aircraft - the French Me110!

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