Jump to content

Il2 Sturmovik - A franchise of non finished combat sims / A suggested future


Styx13
 Share

Recommended Posts

Dear Developers and Fans, 

 

Let me nail down, that I am impressed by the farnchise graphical and physical achievments. I am a military historian dealing with WWII air combat (with some publication behind), and there are some issue in WWII air combat which became clear, when we used the "old" Il2 series. But this not the case with this new series. 

 

I do not understand why the devs introduce new and new products, whilst - to tell the truth - there is no finished product in the series. (How cares a nicely detailed AA ZIL, which means a one minute play to everyone! I definitely do not drive through the steppe with it.) I feel like the creators totally lost the original course and wants to make a Star Wars Battlefront. 

 

I suggest the devs to turn back, finish and finetune the existing sims after BoN, and go for the ultimate WWII combat sim title ever created. They are just a few steps from that. There are many details to improve, but from my perspective the primary problems are:

 

1. Squadron management in air combat: In carreer mode you can control a squadron or staffel. But your inferior squadron members are pissing on your orders, and you also cannot give an order to them. Every dogfight is finishing with the same situation: a never ending roundabout of individual planes. There is no wingman, there is schwarms (sections), there is no competent radio communictaion at al. This is obsolete and ridiculous. I really do not understand how could it work in the classic Il2, and how can be forgotten in this franchise?   

 

2. Squadron management on the ground: Please forgot this WWI style campaign managemenet system, coming from the Rise of Flight, where ths might have been ok. It is worth modelling the logistics behind, an inventory for the planes (combat ready, under repair) with individual markings/numbers on them (like in the classic Il2), please rewrite the pilots personal files (with a chronology/location of their victories, etc), and please rethink the command system on how the staffel/squadron controlled by the higher commands (there was a huge difference between the front air force and the territorial defence). And so on... I don't think that this is rocket science in the 21st Century. 

 

3. Suggestion for the future: with finishing BoN thousand of opportunity will be available, whithout making new maps. (Which I am sure requires a huge amount of capacity). You can model the 1940 Battle of France/Britain, Chanel Campaign etc., so basicaly the franchise might cover the whole WWII story for some units. In an an other topic we discussed on a Night Fighter campaign which can be revolutionary.

 

All-in-all I am ready for pay for more sim experience (with the necessary AI planes), but I do not want to pay more for the sui-generis, useless graphical improves like this ZIS with AA guns, our nicer steam locomotives, or a torpedo boat etc. 

 

I am also ready to help with researches or giving ready-to-program sketches in terms of campaign management or else. 

 

Best, 

  • Like 6
  • Haha 2
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I basically like your ideas I think you seriously underestimate the workload of their implementation. And concerning 21st century rocket science - don’t forget that AAA game studios usually have several hundred employees. Jason’s team is quite small in comparison. And new planes/maps is where their wages come from. 
But most importantly - they constantly improve their old modules while creating new ones!

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this discussion is a really necessary ones and I do believe that for the career to work properly all of your points MUST be addressed, especially the communications with the AI. It's completely bare bones and definitely takes away much of the intended immersion of career mode. But I have hope they are already working on it and BoN will come with many improvements to this.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eisenfaustus said:

While I basically like your ideas I think you seriously underestimate the workload of their implementation. And concerning 21st century rocket science - don’t forget that AAA game studios usually have several hundred employees. Jason’s team is quite small in comparison. And new planes/maps is where their wages come from. 
But most importantly - they constantly improve their old modules while creating new ones!

Hello, 

 

Thanks for your thought. Yes, I can imagine how small is the team, but exactly this is why I beg for using their resources more effectively. 

 

That is why I ask them to focus on finishing one product, instead of starting another and another. 

 

Or if he is a businessmann, he can employ more people.

 

Best,  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Employing more people requires income. Which comes from sales of new products. Some of that income is then used to add new features to existing products, and some is used to develop newer products still. Working that way is the only reason IL-2 GB has been able to expand the way it has.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin

It’s always amusing seeing people demand that the developer stop making changes that generate revenue and devote those resources to changes that they’re not going to pay for.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SCG_Faerber said:

I think this discussion is a really necessary ones and I do believe that for the career to work properly all of your points MUST be addressed, especially the communications with the AI. It's completely bare bones and definitely takes away much of the intended immersion of career mode. But I have hope they are already working on it and BoN will come with many improvements to this.

 

Thanks, hope they will understand, but a couple of months ago I adressed similar issues and nothing happened. 

 

AI problems (stupidities) just in today's missions: 

 

1. You are not able to leave the combat (alone or as a team) and evade. When you give the fly home order (which is ridiculously a flare signal), the enemy (2-3 plane) chases you for several dozen kilometers even if you are a bit faster.

 

2. When the squadrons starts the landing procedure, they do not react on your warnings (at all!) and they are easily shot down by the chasing enemy planes. They just turn on ther landing lights and wait for their turn (=death). At one side this is stupid, because they had to rejoin the combat to save their live, on the other hand a Schwarm or Kette secured the landings on the Western Front above the squadron or staffel, to avoid enemy raids.  

 

3. Your squadron member leaves you if he runs out of ammo, but his plane is intact. Bullshit. Firstly: there were much shorter bursts (1-3 sec), but in Il-2 this is much longer and inaccurate. Had the real pilots used their guns in this way, the result would have been an immediate stuck. Secondly: WWI air combat was disciplined,  you were allowed to leave the formation (whithout a specific permission of your commander) only if you became wounded or your plane had mechanical problems, or suffered serious damage.

 

4. The German air defense was very strong in 1944, but the fighter-bombers are peacufully orbiting over the targets and waiting for... who knows. The situation was the opposite: the allied pilots were professional on how to attack the ground tartgets (unload bombs/rockets and leave as fast as possible, find the best angle of attack). Exactly the German air defense was the reason of not flying deeply over enemy territory at low level, and they tried to avoid the known flak zones (troop concentrations, heavily defended objects etc.).

 

5. And finally if we are talking about fighter-bombers. In the order of the Allied air units there were no separated/specialized/trained ground attack units. They were primary trained as a fighter pilot, but also received some ground attack training. Therefore they usually flew unescortedly (or in the USAAF two squadron were equipped with bombs, the third protected them) and had they met with a German staffel, immediately dropped their weapons and fought with them. But in most cases there were no German planes.  

 

I can continue this list with many other issue... UNFORTUNATELY I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS THEM TO THE CREATORS. Maybe they can issue a reality/historical pack or soimething like them, I will pay for such a stuff. 

 

Best,  

       

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Jason_Williams locked and unlocked this topic
  • 1CGS
Jason_Williams
Quote

I feel like the creators totally lost the original course and wants to make a Star Wars Battlefront. 

 

LOLOLOL I guess he wasn't around in 2013.

 

Jason

  • Like 1
  • Haha 10
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 2
  • Upvote 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand that the devs need revenue, but it’s frustrating seeing new products being announced when I’ve pre-ordered BoN over a year ago and am still waiting on several aircraft to see the light of day. I’m looking forward to FC2, but it seems that with such a small team, they’re stretched exceedingly far with all the projects. In other words, give us the Mossie already!! 😜

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

LOLOLOL I guess he wasn't around in 2013.

 

Jason

Didn't we all sort of collectively repressed the memory of 2013... ?

...oh, you reminded me. All my unlocks, made irrevelant! All that grinding, the mods, the campaign chapters, for nothing! The pain! THE PAIN!!!

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, WWChunk said:

I understand that the devs need revenue, but it’s frustrating seeing new products being announced when I’ve pre-ordered BoN over a year ago and am still waiting on several aircraft to see the light of day. I’m looking forward to FC2, but it seems that with such a small team, they’re stretched exceedingly far with all the projects. In other words, give us the Mossie already!! 😜

 

Sorry but you can not hurry up that small team. I think its great they keepon moving, even improve the older series. The whole CFS scene is a small market, with very diverse flyers. One buyer is very keen on historical aspects, the other buyer wants an decent career or squadron management, while the arcade player wants....... etc etc so very complex and labor intensive to keep all satisfying . 

So in my noble opinion you can not blame this small and limited by budget, 1C-team to take that long time. I think they do need all the support. 

 

@Styx13 do not get me wrong, I’m not fanboy or have any financial relationship to @Jason_Williams  nor 1c , only for me its clear the future in flysims overall, has been showed by FS2020 and not by introducing Squadron management. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

335th_grFirdimigdi

What you are asking for, @Styx13, is a task that is not necessarily worked on by the same part of the team that creates the content you are negative about.

 

Furthermore any gameplay/logic changes that would be made to the AI, comms, core career gameplay would retroactively apply to all products of the franchise as we have seen already with other features. So, one option is to stop purchasing addons today and wait it out until this happens and another is to support the developer with your purchases, whenever you think it is timely, and ask/lobby for the features you desire. We have seen multiple times that they are not disconnected from the playerbase and do indeed take things in to consideration.

  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

 

Sorry but you can not hurry up that small team. I think its great they keepon moving, even improve the older series. The whole CFS scene is a small market, with very diverse flyers. One buyer is very keen on historical aspects, the other buyer wants an decent career or squadron management, while the arcade player wants....... etc etc so very complex and labor intensive to keep all satisfying . 

So in my noble opinion you can not blame this small and limited by budget, 1C-team to take that long time. I think they do need all the support. 

 

@Styx13 do not get me wrong, I’m not fanboy or have any financial relationship to @Jason_Williams  nor 1c , only for me its clear the future in flysims overall, has been showed by FS2020 and not by introducing Squadron management. 

 

 

Dear Dutch2, 

 

This correct, I understand your opinion and thanks for that. But let me see this from an other perspective. 

 

If you start creating a WWII combat sim, you can plan it in an other way from a business perspective. For eg. instead of starting new and new, huge, but non-connectable projects, like Clash at Prokhorovka (which means approx. a 2 hour gaming experience), you can create several other connected DLC's for the existing components.

 

The options are almost countless, some ideas for payable contents: AI plane packages, legendary pilots pack, creating other sectors of the Eastern Front, long-campaigns, night fighter campaign for Rheinland etc-etc, which can be somewhat connected (because half of the already developed planes cam be used) to the original project.

 

From another perspective please understand my disappointment (after spending some hundred bucks for this franchise), when I point out the nonsense AI, radio communication, squadron management in air combat, and individual markings, I also add, that these all have been implemented in the classic Il2: 1946 10 years ago! Why it is an impossible mission in 2020? 

 

PS.: Off topic, but worth to react. MSFS has a million-member fan club, and a huge third-party support (BTW many of them deal with various carreer options!), and a very professional management team. Belive me, they won't loose their original purpose and won't create... let's say a Lunar Landing Simulator whilst the original project (creating the ultimate non-combat flight sim) is still unfinished. Since MSFS has announced three months ago, huge patches were introduced almost biweekly. Well. What is the situation here? You buy something with the same price or more, and there is almost no deadline they can keep! Where is BoN? All-in-all MSFS teams capacity and professionalism is not comparable with this team.

 

Best,           

 

3 hours ago, Firdimigdi said:

What you are asking for, @Styx13, is a task that is not necessarily worked on by the same part of the team that creates the content you are negative about.

 

Furthermore any gameplay/logic changes that would be made to the AI, comms, core career gameplay would retroactively apply to all products of the franchise as we have seen already with other features. So, one option is to stop purchasing addons today and wait it out until this happens and another is to support the developer with your purchases, whenever you think it is timely, and ask/lobby for the features you desire. We have seen multiple times that they are not disconnected from the playerbase and do indeed take things in to consideration.

 

Agreed. He should have done it well once!

22 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

LOLOLOL I guess he wasn't around in 2013.

 

Jason

 

Thanks for this meaningful and competent answer. Congratulations.

 

I do not know what happened with you in 2013, and to tell the truth, I do not even care.  

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Styx13 said:

MSFS has a million-member fan club...

 

Yeah, that's the reason they can justify employing people to produce biweekly updates. Though if you go to their forum, you will note that not everyone is particularly happy with progress, and also note that nobody (or at least, nobody I've seen there) has suggested that MSFS is even remotely finished. And that quite a few people seem to be of the opinion that it is unlikely to ever meet the expectations engendered by the hype surrounding its release.

 

And if I was you, I'd cut out the crap about 'professionalism', given that insulting developers is rarely an effective way to achieve anything.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mitthrawnuruodo
4 hours ago, Styx13 said:

You buy something with the same price or more, and there is almost no deadline they can keep! Where is BoN?

 

It's been clear from the start that Normandy development would continue well into 2021. This shouldn't be a surprise. All the previous project have taken roughly two years.

 

It's fine that you don't like the expanded scope beyond WW2 air combat, but keep in mind that some people are very interested in TC, AA vehicles, or FC.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just be happy if they'd fix the rest of the large outstanding problems/bugs with the game and add a couple of four engine bombers (Lancaster and B-17/B-24.)  All the fighter types in the world aren't going to make someone who is serious about this type of game happy if there are large flaws in the flight model and damage model.  I like new planes as much as anyone else and I know that's how they make money, but we have all the major and most numerous fighter designs now and have for quite a while.  As for the quality problems, some of the things you can do in IL2 would be impossible or even potentially fatal to a real pilot.   The ability to slam the stick from one extreme to another without penalties like being injured from red out or it being just physically impossible are a big problem.   I frequently see planes flopping around like porpoises in the ocean online.  The lack of AP effectiveness and over powered HE rounds are frustrating a large number of players as well.   There have been numerous threads about this so I'm not going cover it again.  Finally, the total lack of four engine bombers makes any re-creation of a very large part of the European air war impossible.  So, yes, there are some important things left to do and of them aren't nearly as big as OPs wish list.

Edited by BCI-Nazgul
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin
3 hours ago, Styx13 said:

 

I do not even care.  

 

 

They appear to feel the same way about your opinion of their development decisions.  

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

By my count, there have been 60 updates since the original release in 2013/14. Add to that, 267 Developer Diaries keeping the user pretty well informed on where the series has been and where it's going. There's always something to be improved or added for sure. but I think this team's track record speaks for itself. I'm in for the long haul as I've been more than pleased with this sim.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

HARD_BlkAdder_AATC
On 12/6/2020 at 10:53 AM, Styx13 said:

Dear Developers and Fans, 

 

Let me nail down, that I am impressed by the farnchise graphical and physical achievments. I am a military historian dealing with WWII air combat (with some publication behind), and there are some issue in WWII air combat which became clear, when we used the "old" Il2 series. But this not the case with this new series. 

 

I do not understand why the devs introduce new and new products, whilst - to tell the truth - there is no finished product in the series. (How cares a nicely detailed AA ZIL, which means a one minute play to everyone! I definitely do not drive through the steppe with it.) I feel like the creators totally lost the original course and wants to make a Star Wars Battlefront. 

 

I suggest the devs to turn back, finish and finetune the existing sims after BoN, and go for the ultimate WWII combat sim title ever created. They are just a few steps from that. There are many details to improve, but from my perspective the primary problems are:

 

1. Squadron management in air combat: In carreer mode you can control a squadron or staffel. But your inferior squadron members are pissing on your orders, and you also cannot give an order to them. Every dogfight is finishing with the same situation: a never ending roundabout of individual planes. There is no wingman, there is schwarms (sections), there is no competent radio communictaion at al. This is obsolete and ridiculous. I really do not understand how could it work in the classic Il2, and how can be forgotten in this franchise?   

 

2. Squadron management on the ground: Please forgot this WWI style campaign managemenet system, coming from the Rise of Flight, where ths might have been ok. It is worth modelling the logistics behind, an inventory for the planes (combat ready, under repair) with individual markings/numbers on them (like in the classic Il2), please rewrite the pilots personal files (with a chronology/location of their victories, etc), and please rethink the command system on how the staffel/squadron controlled by the higher commands (there was a huge difference between the front air force and the territorial defence). And so on... I don't think that this is rocket science in the 21st Century. 

 

3. Suggestion for the future: with finishing BoN thousand of opportunity will be available, whithout making new maps. (Which I am sure requires a huge amount of capacity). You can model the 1940 Battle of France/Britain, Chanel Campaign etc., so basicaly the franchise might cover the whole WWII story for some units. In an an other topic we discussed on a Night Fighter campaign which can be revolutionary.

 

All-in-all I am ready for pay for more sim experience (with the necessary AI planes), but I do not want to pay more for the sui-generis, useless graphical improves like this ZIS with AA guns, our nicer steam locomotives, or a torpedo boat etc. 

 

I am also ready to help with researches or giving ready-to-program sketches in terms of campaign management or else. 

 

Best, 

 

Gee Mr Wizz, 

It's a game and a game in Progress, sounds like your just looking for a job rather than being helpful.

Sorry just an observation.... Too bad  God how i miss FA

DOH BlackAdder 

 

 

1 hour ago, Rjel said:

By my count, there have been 60 updates since the original release in 2013/14. Add to that, 267 Developer Diaries keeping the user pretty well informed on where the series has been and where it's going. There's always something to be improved or added for sure. but I think this team's track record speaks for itself. I'm in for the long haul as I've been more than pleased with this sim.

 

and there ya go...Blue 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/8/2020 at 2:37 AM, HARD_Adder*** said:

Gee Mr Wizz, 

It's a game and a game in Progress, sounds like your just looking for a job rather than being helpful.

Sorry just an observation.... Too bad  God how i miss FA

DOH BlackAdder 

 

 Dear Hard_Adder, 

 

To be honest I have a very prosperous company behind, so luckily I can pay some attention to my hobby (WWII aviation).

 

So thanks, but I do not need a job or money. On the contrary, I would be able to invest into this franchise, but obviously this is very theoretical.

 

Best,

  

On 12/8/2020 at 12:52 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

They appear to feel the same way about your opinion of their development decisions.  

 

And this is right in your opinion? Is this the normal way of handling a customer? It is very easy to be offended, like kids, but a professional team can give correct answers for the correct questions. And my question is quite simple: what is the reason of not solving some issues, which were implemented in the classic Il-2 series and had been solved 10 years ago?

 

A normal answer can be: yes, no, beacuse, do not expect for such a thing etc-etc. But what I get? LOL's, and stupid/incompetent reactions. I konw that the devs like hearing the positive reactions for eg. oh my god, what a nice AA truck / amazing the box art of the BoN... etc.

 

But I would like to express my fear of over-fragmenting this frachise. There is a saying - I am sure you know -  it is better to finish one thing from ten, than not finishing anything. Seems to me that the situation here is something similar.     

On 12/7/2020 at 9:59 PM, AndyJWest said:

And if I was you, I'd cut out the crap about 'professionalism', given that insulting developers is rarely an effective way to achieve anything.

 

Dear Andy, 

 

I do not insult the developers. Your statement is definitely the distortion of the facts. The situation is not so complicated: I payed several hundred bucks and I am a costumer, who deserves normal answers for normal/valid questions.

 

In other words: I tried to initiate an inteligent dialogue about some issue, but failed. 🙂

 

This sim is amazing, really, but I beg for some very small steps (= developing sim/gaming experience) towards excellence. 

 

Best, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin
46 minutes ago, Styx13 said:

 

 

And this is right in your opinion? Is this the normal way of handling a customer? 


Absolutely.  You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, but still have the nerve to tell people with far more experience than you how to do things.  He was a lot nicer than I would have been if I was in his place.

50 minutes ago, Styx13 said:

 

 I payed several hundred bucks and I am a costumer, who deserves normal answers for normal/valid questions.

 


No, you don’t.  You paid for a game. You have to throw a much bigger pile of money at them to be able to demand answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, you don’t.  You paid for a game. You have to throw a much bigger pile of money at them to be able to demand answers.

 

Ho-ho... Please take a step back. Do you understand the content of your sentence? Let me translate: you just said that I do not have any right as a customer and shut up. 

 

Reflecting on your unacceptable and very inteligent style, I will send this whole conversation to the given authorities, and I immediately consult with my lawyers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Styx13 said:

 

Ho-ho... Please take a step back. Do you understand the content of your sentence? Let me translate: you just said that I do not have any right as a customer and shut up. 

 

Reflecting on your unacceptable and very inteligent style, I will send this whole conversation to the given authorities, and I immediately consult with my lawyers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I heard that Rudy Giuliani might soon be available.

 

23 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

ROFL

And then some.....

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Styx13 said:

 

Ho-ho... Please take a step back. Do you understand the content of your sentence? Let me translate: you just said that I do not have any right as a customer and shut up. 

 

Reflecting on your unacceptable and very inteligent style, I will send this whole conversation to the given authorities, and I immediately consult with my lawyers. 

 

 

As a customer you have rights but there are limits to those rights. For example if you buy a car you have the right to complain when a wheel falls off but you don't have the right to demand the company should make the car with a bigger engine, extra doors etc. 

 

In respect of your second sentence are you saying BraveSirRobin is unacceptably intelligent? 

 

So which authorities are you sending this whole conversation to as I am not sure which are responsible for, or interested in, the postings on a forum by customers who the developers aren't vicariously liable for.

 

Consulting with lawyers on the posts above seems pointless, they will tell you have no cause of action and bill you for it. They will also highlight how during during cross examination your complaints about resources being spent on things like vehicles and tanks will be undermined by your purchase of TC.

 

Just relax, have a drink and enjoy IL2 for what it is.

 

3 hours ago, Styx13 said:

I have a very prosperous company behind

So does Kim Kardashian.

 

Edited by Monksilver
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mitthrawnuruodo
54 minutes ago, Styx13 said:

Reflecting on your unacceptable and very inteligent style, I will send this whole conversation to the given authorities, and I immediately consult with my lawyers. 

 

I can represent you in your upcoming legal action.

 

Please PM me ten copies of Tank Crew and two AA vehicles as payment.

 

Once that is complete, we will immediately start lawsuits against BSR, 1C-777, and others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin
1 hour ago, Styx13 said:

 

you just said that I do not have any right as a customer and shut up. 

 


No, I didn’t.  I said that you don’t have any standing to demand answers.  You can certainly ask questions.  But they have no obligation to answer them.  You paid for a game.  You didn’t pay to demand answers to your uninformed questions.

  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Essential reading: https://il2sturmovik.com/user-agreement/

 

Can't see anything about answering questions regarding proposals for future developments in there. What it does say though, is this:

Quote

6.3. The operator does not warrant that:

...quality of any product, service, information, etc., obtained with the use of the service provided at the Resources would be in line with expectations of the User.

 

So basically, you pay for the right to use the product as supplied. Any subsequent upgrades are solely at 1C/777's discretion, and if the developers wish to discuss such things with us at all, they do so on their terms. Regardless of how many times you use the word 'professional' on the forum. Anyone who has trouble understanding this can always pay a lawyer to explain it to them...

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Dear sweet baby Jesus...  

 

Thanks for your critique of the product Styx.  What a mountain of bs.

3 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

 

 

 

  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

First of all: please understand that I am coming from a different "culture", and perhaps I am a "bit" older than everybody here. That is why my critics can be seen as a harsh disappointment. Sorry for that, hurting/insulting anybody was not an "objective" of mine. 

 

This is a brilliant franchise at all, beautiful graphics, impressive physics, correct historical researches in the background (the campaign map is brilliant), and so on... For me two very little issue are missing: a bit better squadron AI (the individulual AI - evasive maneuvers for eg. - is pretty good) and squadron management (radio commands, combat management, individual plane markings).

 

But comparing this two, above mentioned issue is really "nothing", when talking about the whole product, which is really brilliant. Yes, it is. (Yesterday I received the VR glasses! :-). But I would like to address to the developers, that these two - from my, non-professional perspective seemingly - little step can prolong the sim experience (or the virtual time travel) as well. And perhaps a prolonged sim playing means a larger fanclub, and off course a larger income. 

 

Hope you all understand my approach, and excuse me for the equivocal speech. Keep up this success, and I am waiting for BoN. Best!    

 

 

 

On 12/10/2020 at 11:35 PM, BraveSirRobin said:


No, I didn’t.  I said that you don’t have any standing to demand answers.  You can certainly ask questions.  But they have no obligation to answer them.  You paid for a game.  You didn’t pay to demand answers to your uninformed questions.

Dear SirRobin, 

 

Yes, you right and I understand. It was perhaps my mistake. Whole of my message "derailed".  

 

Please have a look at my last reply.

 

Best, 

On 12/10/2020 at 11:47 PM, AndyJWest said:

Essential reading: https://il2sturmovik.com/user-agreement/

 

Can't see anything about answering questions regarding proposals for future developments in there. What it does say though, is this:

 

So basically, you pay for the right to use the product as supplied. Any subsequent upgrades are solely at 1C/777's discretion, and if the developers wish to discuss such things with us at all, they do so on their terms. Regardless of how many times you use the word 'professional' on the forum. Anyone who has trouble understanding this can always pay a lawyer to explain it to them...

 

Dear Andy, Dear Developers, 

 

The pity things I would like to address were completely "derailed". I am a bit aged costumer, and I am not familiar in wrinting topics (I had to ask my son what is "ROFL") at all. 

 

To tell the truth you are the first, whom I felt worth to tell my proposals, that is why I started to use this forum.

 

And I also forgot to use the English language. 

 

Best,     

 

Edited by Styx13
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Styx13 said:

First of all: please understand that I am coming from a different "culture", and perhaps I am a "bit" older than everybody here. That is why my critics can be seen as a harsh disappointment. Sorry for that, hurting/insulting anybody was not an "objective" of mine. 

 

 

 

No problem, think its good that there is another view on the game.  We could all being disagree and cut down ever poster that does have remarks on the game, eventually it does not helping the game further. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin
17 hours ago, Styx13 said:

First of all: please understand that I am coming from a different "culture"

 


The problem here is not cultural.  The problem is that you don’t understand their business model.  They need to sell maps, planes, and tanks to generate the revenue to pay for the features that you want.  That is not going to change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:


The problem here is not cultural.  The problem is that you don’t understand their business model.  They need to sell maps, planes, and tanks to generate the revenue to pay for the features that you want.  That is not going to change.

 

Indeed, okay. Let me note that I am ready to pay for smaller packages as well. For eg. additional AI plane packs (can start with the Wellington from CoD for eg.), that might be easier to implement than a fully flyable aircraft. But I am not an expert just thinking loudly. And of course, I also ready to pay for skinpacks, and individual markings.   

 

So I am supporter in generating the revenue required. But those are just modest proposals from and old man. Thanks. Best,

 

Edited by Styx13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BraveSirRobin
6 hours ago, Styx13 said:

 

Indeed, okay. Let me note that I am ready to pay for smaller packages as well. For eg. additional AI plane packs (can start with the Wellington from CoD for eg.), that might be easier to implement than a fully flyable aircraft. But I am not an expert just thinking loudly. And of course, I also ready to pay for skinpacks, and individual markings.   

 

So I am supporter in generating the revenue required. But those are just modest proposals from and old man. Thanks. Best,

 


This might be a good time for you to just accept that the developer has a much better idea of what can be done to generate revenue than you do.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Styx13 said:

 

Indeed, okay. Let me note that I am ready to pay for smaller packages as well. For eg. additional AI plane packs (can start with the Wellington from CoD for eg.), that might be easier to implement than a fully flyable aircraft. But I am not an expert just thinking loudly. And of course, I also ready to pay for skinpacks, and individual markings.   

 

So I am supporter in generating the revenue required. But those are just modest proposals from and old man. Thanks. Best,

 

 

I don't think they can just import the Wellington from CoD as that is a different game.

 

The developers already give us small packages to pay for, e.g the Hurricane, Yak 9, and some of the other collector planes. As for AI only planes, a lot of work is going to be required to make the model, the flight model, damage model and AI behaviour so perhaps only worth doing for AI in order to sell as flyable later on as they did with the Ju52 and hopefully the C47.

 

Skin packs is another issue as time they spend on those is less time to spend on making planes, maps etc and probably won't make much money given the skins generated by the community which are of high quality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried to get a buddy into the game. He asked for a refund after I took him through commands assignation and explained him how indeed single player is better than 2013, yet still not fun and he had to jump into one of the 4 inhabited multiplayer lobbies and get slaughtered there by players with decades of experience or quit, because game doesn't provide coop content. If new players ask for refund after a few hours, maybe it's time to think outside of "build more planes, build more maps, keep same core", but hey I trust Jason to know what's good for his business. I'll most likely keep buying more planes and maps because I'm weak, but don't expect me to try to sell the game again as long as core single player doesn't improve. Merry Xmas all.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Jason_Williams locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...