Spitfire VB optimal set up

[adler_1]

hello

yesterday i flew for the first time  my VB online . That means all manual . The youtube tutorial says full open water radiator and prop RPM 100 % oil rich 100% and that's all basically . When flying i found the water way too cool below 60 Dgrs and the prop at 100 was interfering with the RPM gauge read out . I reduced the prop RPM to 85 and found the Gauge working better and more response from the accelerator .  Cruise is  supposed to be 2650 rpm but when i reduce the accelerator i dont get the message cruising . it keeps saying combat . What is the best set up Prop RPM % and what is the correct accelerator % for cruise ? Then the radiator i tried reducing to 80% for less drag and found there was no overheat . I also keep getting the message watch your oil temp but i dont see it going anywhere close to 80 , its always well below do i ignore this message or must set it up as manual ? finally for how long can i fly in combat mode 2800 rpm or full emergency?  any advice would be appreciated . 

Edited September 7, 2020 by adler_1

[ZachariasX]

27 minutes ago, adler_1 said:

The youtube tutorial says full open water radiator and prop RPM 100 % oil rich 100% and that's all basically .

You fly with radiator set to 40%. That is the intended setting. Otherwhise it gives too much drag. You open further if you fly slow in climbs.

 

29 minutes ago, adler_1 said:

finally for how long can i fly in combat mode 2800 rpm or full emergency?  any advice would be appreciated . 

Longer than at 3000 rpm and you get about the same power. This is how to „game“ the Spitfire here, not what you‘d do in the real aircraft.

 

Cruise you can do at lower rpm than you stated and set mixture on „weak“. This is not supposed to be full throttle...

[adler_1]

hello

the oil mixture to weak , do you mean reduce to 30 % after ignition ? i have no set key which sets it to weak automatically . do i ignore the oil temp messages ?  so there is no time limit for flying full throttle combat 2800 rpm or emergency 3000 RPM ? for example the FW's have a time limit or else as i have experienced chasing late war allied planes . 

[ZachariasX]

32 minutes ago, adler_1 said:

do i ignore the oil temp messages ? 

The messages are only good to alert you if "The Timer" is active for WEP.

 

As for flying, you need to do as follows:

Spoiler

 

 

[Talisman]

8 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

You fly with radiator set to 40%. That is the intended setting. Otherwhise it gives too much drag. You open further if you fly slow in climbs.

 

Longer than at 3000 rpm and you get about the same power. This is how to „game“ the Spitfire here, not what you‘d do in the real aircraft.

 

Cruise you can do at lower rpm than you stated and set mixture on „weak“. This is not supposed to be full throttle...

 

When it comes to real life Spitfire aircraft combat, I have read that pilots would use combat and emergency boost over-ride power at less than 3,000 rpm for "better response".

 

It was also known that in some cases an aircraft would fly faster on maximum boost but with an rpm set to less than 3,000 rpm. 

 

As I understand it, try the following:

 

2650 rpm + 7 boost for continuous unlimited fast cruise .

 

2650 rpm + 4 boost for continuous unlimited slower steady cruise.

 

2850 rpm + 9 boost (30 minute limit) short periods combat cruise.

 

2850 rpm + 12 boost for short combat with bursts of emergency power at 2850 rpm + 16 boost when required.

 

Remember to use the double movement on the stick (as per real life and in-game specification notes).

 

Radiator flap lever has the following positions:

Closed

20%

40%

60%

80%

100% open (remember to use this for take-off)

 

Use the Merlin 45 engine in the modifications section.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited September 7, 2020 by 56RAF_Talisman

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

When it comes to real life Spitfire aircraft combat,

You are quiet right. That is why I was referring to the game as such. You can "under rpm" the engine with ease, something that does not make sense equally in the real aircraft (you wouldn't do it!). In the game, the timer is rather sensitive to rpm, but when you are below 2800 rpm, then you can considerably extend your WEP timer without noticeable power penalty.

 

It is of note that you should use weak mixture if at or below +4 boost. In the game you can go weak all day as long as your engine doesn't overheat. It has the advantage in often removing the smoke trail.

[adler_1]

i have set up the  prop RPM as 85 % and cruise speed at 62 % since the RPM gauge is not functioning well for me . For mixture post take off i will set it at 30% and see how the heat goes .water radiator at below 40 % as suggested  ,100% was too open for north Europe . i want to see in combat or long chase how long it takes for the engine to blow at full throttle without overheat .  

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, adler_1 said:

water radiator

The water radiator works as follows:

 

0% -> all closed

20% -> only guns are heated, engine is NOT cooled. 20% open is still 0% engine cooling. Guns are heated at this and beyond this setting.

40% -> least drag, the choice for any kind of flying as long as you stay reasonably fast. The cooling is meant to be sufficient in this setting for stated power ratings.

60%, 80%, 100% are further increase of cooling.

 

The Spitfire is meant to be flown FAST. Opening the cooler beyond 40% adds significant drag and results in an airspeed decrease. This airspeed decrease reduces the cooling and acts like closing the rad a bit.

 

This means, you don't really just regulate the temperature with the radiator lever. You do so by maintaining your airspeed. Only if there is no way of being fast (like on the ground, or in a maximum climb), THEN you open your rads. If you are slow, there is less of a speed penalty.

 

If you need to get to altitude fast, use the table I posted above and use these flight speeds at corresponsing altitudes. Depending on ambient temperature, you likely have to open the radiators, which will ultimately come as a penalty in climb rate.

 

EDIT: correction @ 20% rad flap.

Edited September 7, 2020 by ZachariasX

[TAIPAN_]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

The water radiator works as follows:

 

0% -> all closed

20% -> only guns are heated, engine is NOT cooled. 20% open is still 0% engine cooling. Guns are heated at this and beyond this setting.

40% -> least drag, the choice for any kind of flying as long as you stay reasonably fast. The cooling is meant to be sufficient in this setting for stated power ratings.

 

 

 

 

Is this modelled in the sim as well?

 

I'd heard that 20% actually did cool the engine a bit?

[ZachariasX]

9 minutes ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

Is this modelled in the sim as well?

 

I'd heard that 20% actually did cool the engine a bit?

I seriously doubt that the gun heat problem is modelled.

 

But you were right, the engine is cooled at 20%. (See edit above.) In he game there is also cooling at 20%, as it should.

 

OTOH, I haven't noticed a red mark for the least drag position of that lever in our cockpit, but it should be 40% position, the second detent. The one before is where you can heat the guns at high altitude. Diverting hot air from the coolers to the guns certainly will make for more drag than letting air just pass through the cooler at the 40% position. If it was modelled, I'd expect more drag at 20% than at 40% rad setting.

 

In the game, I get some ~12 km/h IAS differences at 6500 meters for opening or closing the cooler. It is fastest when the cooler is closed, and then it gets slower gradually as you open the cooler. I can find no red line for least drag position, something that is sorely absent on the P-40 as well. The aircraft should be fastest with the cooler flap in the least drag position, and that is not fully closed in this case.

 

Thus, I don't think that the game models the radiator behavior as it really is in the real aircraft. But for the sake of the game, I don't think it matters much.

 

[TAIPAN_]

Thanks @ZachariasX I was sure I had been getting something out of the radiator at low levels.

 

For the in-game usage, I don't think I ever went above 40% radiator flying the full campaign "From England with Love". The higher settings are probably only needed if using best angle of climb or in extremely long/slow turn fights like duelling someone.

 

For the Op @adler_1 - here's a copy of my Spitfire Vb flying notes you might find useful https://www.dropbox.com/s/1qls8c5q07tp53y/Il-2 GB POH - Spit Vb extract.PDF?dl=0

When I learn a plane I try to figure out everything up front, then I like to note it all in one place so I can go back and pickup a plane again easily because it's sometimes a long wait to find time to fly again.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

I can find no red line for least drag position, something that is sorely absent on the P-40 as well. The aircraft should be fastest with the cooler flap in the least drag position, and that is not fully closed in this case.

 

There is a small line marked on the cowl flaps shutters control that marks the neutral position for the flaps, on the P-40. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by LukeFF

[adler_1]

 

Mixture at sea level wether at take off , cruise or combat should always be 100% which i believe is considered auto rich , right ? if correct then lean mixture is only for high altitude which is not the case for this plane since it always operated at sea level in France and Russia . Just to be clear what is the percentage considered to be lean mixture ? whats the difference performance wise wether its freezing temperatrure " Russia winter maps" or summer weather ? if i note the gauges are too low i should close the radiator and  go lean or stick to rich?  

Edited September 8, 2020 by adler_1

[TAIPAN_]

4 hours ago, adler_1 said:

 

Mixture at sea level wether at take off , cruise or combat should always be 100% which i believe is considered auto rich , right ? if correct then lean mixture is only for high altitude which is not the case for this plane since it always operated at sea level in France and Russia . Just to be clear what is the percentage considered to be lean mixture ? whats the difference performance wise wether its freezing temperatrure " Russia winter maps" or summer weather ? if i note the gauges are too low i should close the radiator and  go lean or stick to rich?  

 

In the Mk. Vb: Auto-rich 100% and Auto-lean 0%

In the Mk. IX: Auto-rich 100% then below that I think is manual leaning.

 

For the purposes of the game, fly on auto-rich all the time. Lean mixture is for long journey cruising which we don't do, we don't even have drop tanks. It can also reduce smoke trail but it's not that bad.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

5 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

In the Mk. Vb: Auto-rich 100% and Auto-lean 0%

In the Mk. IX: Auto-rich 100% then below that I think is manual leaning.

 

For the purposes of the game, fly on auto-rich all the time. Lean mixture is for long journey cruising which we don't do, we don't even have drop tanks. It can also reduce smoke trail but it's not that bad.

 

In the IX there is no mixture adjustment, it is fully automatic instead.

[TAIPAN_]

5 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 

In the IX there is no mixture adjustment, it is fully automatic instead.

 

Thanks, so 100% is auto instead of auto-rich.

Apparently it's still adjustable though I haven't tried it:

 

"Engine is equipped with an automatic fuel mixture control which maintains optimal mixture if mixture lever is set to the forward position. It is possible to manually lean the mixture by moving the mixture control to less than maximum. This also reduces fuel consumption during flight."

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25993-aircraft-flight-and-technical-specifications-and-operational-details/

 

[RNAS10_Oliver]

1 hour ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

Thanks, so 100% is auto instead of auto-rich.

Apparently it's still adjustable though I haven't tried it:

 

"Engine is equipped with an automatic fuel mixture control which maintains optimal mixture if mixture lever is set to the forward position. It is possible to manually lean the mixture by moving the mixture control to less than maximum. This also reduces fuel consumption during flight."

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25993-aircraft-flight-and-technical-specifications-and-operational-details/

 

 

Nah I believe that page is just out of date. As the image below shows what the specifications tab now states in game for the IX. Both the lever and being able to change the mixture are gone (am using a throttle knob when in the IX that is also moving my mixture lever at same time and nothing results in game to the mixture while am using my throttle). They did have the mixture control included when the IX was first released in early access. But this was soon removed. The pilot notes for the IX state there is no mixture control and its automatic.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Oliver88

[ZachariasX]

56 minutes ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Apparently it's still adjustable though I haven't tried it:

No, that lever is gone. In fact, it could have a ring where you can cut fuel flow. But it depends on when and where the aircraft is manufactured and what exact engine it had:

In the game, it is just "auto" without any control from the side of the player whatsoever.

Edited September 8, 2020 by ZachariasX

[TAIPAN_]

Awesome, thanks for confirming @Oliver88 and @ZachariasX

I wonder if any of the other Bodenplatte aircraft have out of date specs on Han's specs page.

 

Another point to note for the OP is that you need to hit the "Boost" keybind in order to reach maximum boost on the Mk Vb (turning off the MP governor), whereas the Mk IX has full boost available on the throttle all the time.

 

Would be interested to hear opinions on the significance of "Engine is equipped with the automatic governor of the manifold pressure that works when the throttle is set to 1/3 position or above"?

 

I thought most WW2 planes simulated in IL-2 BoX have some sort of manifold pressure management system (except specific cases like the P40), but it's only mentioned on the Spitfire for some reason. Any why would we be concerned about having no governor below 1/3 throttle if you're not going to blow your engine while diving in that throttle range anyway?

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dan_Taipan

[ZachariasX]

5 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

"Engine is equipped with the automatic governor of the manifold pressure that works when the throttle is set to 1/3 position or above"

That is not exactly how this works with the Merlin engines. The mechanical pressure sensor/cylinder has IIRC an effective range of about 10 pressure boost units to compensate for changing air pressure, as it is dependent on the throttle lever position.

 

You might check out this about the mechanics of the boost regulator.

 

It is a fancy device, yet it is not a mechanical brain like the Kommandogerät that has much more functionality. It it not supposed to do everything for you, but just to keep boost steady at power settings used for combat, where you have a lot to do otherwise. If you are at a lower power setting and significantly changing altitude, you shouldn‘t be surprised if you exceed the range of the boost control.

Edited September 9, 2020 by ZachariasX

[HR_Zunzun]

On 9/9/2020 at 12:50 AM, Dan_Taipan said:

Would be interested to hear opinions on the significance of "Engine is equipped with the automatic governor of the manifold pressure that works when the throttle is set to 1/3 position or above"?

 

I thought most WW2 planes simulated in IL-2 BoX have some sort of manifold pressure management system (except specific cases like the P40), but it's only mentioned on the Spitfire for some reason. Any why would we be concerned about having no governor below 1/3 throttle if you're not going to blow your engine while diving in that throttle range anyway?

 

 

I think it refers to what is called "fine -pitch stop". Basically is the lower limit for the governor. This lower limit prevent the propeller to move into negative angle of atack when reducing throttle (like in landing) that could have disastrous consequences.

If you select full prop pitch but bring back your throttle the governor will be changing blades to fine angle to maintain those rpm. But if you keep lowering your mp, there will be a moment in which the propeller can´t go any finer and, from then on, it will behave as a fix-pitch propeller.

That is why, when you are on the ground and taxi, when you increase mp the rpm increase as well. That will happen up to a point in wich the governor will be able to start changing the blades angles to maintain your desired rpm. It is something you can check in the game.

Edited September 13, 2020 by HR_Zunzun

[ZachariasX]

4 hours ago, HR_Zunzun said:

This lower limit prevent the propeller to move into negative angle of atack when reducing throttle (like in landing) that could have disastrous consequences.

If you follow my link it is explained what the aneroid does. It simply can cap set maximum power to stated maximum rating, as opposed to boost optained by having max rpm at given altitude. It essentially holds back your throttle valve to max. permissive MAP if you have your throttle lever full forward. It can compensate throughout the range of excessive boost. In case of the 2.3 : 1 geared blower, that would be an excess of about 8 boost units that it can compensate, giving you +12 boost instead ob +20 boost if there was no such governor. It effectively holds back your throttle for +8 boost. Wen you climb, air will get thinner and those former +20 boost will reduce to +12 boost, from where on the governor cannot compensate anymore, as it has moved from a "closed" to "full open" position ath the end of the cylinders travel range. If you keep on climbing, you will see your MAP decrease.

 

The same is happening if you were to climb with +4 boost. You do so with the throttle lever in a slightly retarded position. The compensation possible by the aneroid cylinder will not be such that it reaches the same critical altitude at +4 boost like in the previous example. You at some point must move your throttle lever forward to make it possible for the system to reach +4 boost at the same altitude as the first example.

 

The more backward you have your throttle position, the less travel the cylinder has to compensate for variing air pressure. This is why this device has less playroom with partial power than with full power.

 

Travel of the regulating aneroid is not equal in both directions. I quote:

"...the aneroid being so calibrated that under normal sea level atmospheric conditions a change of pressure in either direction will cause a movement of piston valve, the greatest travel being available on the pressure increase side."

 

This device is mainly an assist to facilitate your climb, more than your descent as there you are usually throttled back anyway.

 

[JG27_Mainz]

Does this mean that you can only hit the boost button when you are below 33% throttle?

[ZachariasX]

1 minute ago, IV./JG51-P_Mainz said:

Does this mean that you can only hit the boost button when you are below 33% throttle?

You hit the boost button only at max. rpm and full forward throttle, mixture rich. The game is however more permissive than real engines.

[JG27_Mainz]

21 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

You hit the boost button only at max. rpm and full forward throttle, mixture rich. The game is however more permissive than real engines.

I see references to boost settings like +4, +8, +12. Are these settings automatically determined based on your combination of RPM and throttle if you are not full 100% for both?

[DD_Arthur]

4 hours ago, IV./JG51-P_Mainz said:

I see references to boost settings like +4, +8, +12. Are these settings automatically determined based on your combination of RPM and throttle if you are not full 100% for both?

 

Boost = manifold pressure.  US measures it in inches of Mercury, UK measures it in pounds of boost, Germans called it ATA.