Disappointing Tobruk map

[TDK1044]

I think that enhancing the map will be great, but it's really not that big a deal.

[OBT-Mikmak]

6 hours ago, sergio_ said:

 

Outlining weak points is not whining, but pushing forward.

 

 

Outlining weak points and pushing forward make sense for a well-established team like EA DCS, Great Battles or MS FS2020...

But i think it is counterproductive with TF which more need encouragements.

Remember they haven't been paid for ~7 years !!!

 If i am not wrong,  they are still volonteers till Tobruk  becomes a success.

Edited August 12, 2020 by OBT-Mikmak

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I'm not even going to begin to theorize where the idea someone wants to return to 1946 came from...

 

 

 

it's a "straw man" for taking exception to something no one actually requested

[343KKT_Kintaro]

3 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

it's a "straw man" for taking exception to something no one actually requested

 

 

No, not really. It's more complicated than this. The "straw man" is that the map MUST BE better than it is. Nobody said that "Cliffs of Dover" is a sim dealing with beautiful landscapes and visuals at the ground and the horizon. The real point is that CoD is an AIR COMBAT simulator set in the 1940s. The "straw man" is when somebody comes and says "I want perfection" even if no other sim provides that supposed perfection. CoD provides playability at best of realistic air combat simulation. That's a fact. If you want perfection, live one thousand more years and forget simulators as they are in the present day.

[DD_Arthur]

29 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

Outlining weak points and pushing forward make sense for a well-established team like EA DCS, Great Battles or MS FS2020...

But i think it is counterproductive with TF which more need encouragements.

Remember they haven't been paid for ~7 years !!!

 If i am not wrong,  they are still volonteers till Tobruk  becomes a success.

Ahh....I think I hear the sound of tiny violins again?

[BraveSirRobin]

33 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

 If i am not wrong,  they are still volonteers till Tobruk  becomes a success.

They charged people money for this game.  That means that they’re no longer volunteers.

[69thSpiritus]

We are looking at improving the map, as Buzz has mentioned. Thanks to @Semor76 for posting them in the previous page. 

 

- Improvement of the basic textures to remove the overly 'yellow' look.

- Improved Tesselation to provide more of a 3D look

- Addition of another LoD view for improved middle distance visuals

- Addition of some grass and more rock formations

 

We have also talked about the coastline, there are areas that we all noted needed improvement. 

 

 

[danielprates]

1 hour ago, TDK1044 said:

I think that enhancing the map will be great, but it's really not that big a deal.

 

A simple, short sentence, but it says all there is to say about this whole overblown discussion. Kudos @TDK1044

[unlikely_spider]

18 minutes ago, 69thSpiritus said:

We are looking at improving the map, as Buzz has mentioned. Thanks to @Semor76 for posting them in the previous page. 

 

- Improvement of the basic textures to remove the overly 'yellow' look.

- Improved Tesselation to provide more of a 3D look

- Addition of another LoD view for improved middle distance visuals

- Addition of some grass and more rock formations

 

We have also talked about the coastline, there are areas that we all noted needed improvement. 

 

 

Thanks for these notes. This is good news.

[Enceladus828]

I think some people fail to realize that this is the first map made by Team Fusion (the Channel map, they tweaked up to a much better standard than the original), just like the Stalingrad map was the first map made by 1CGS for IL-2 Great Battles. 

IIRC they released a winter map first, and then the following year released Summer and Autumn maps for Stalingrad. Probably they fixed/adjusted some things on the map in that time period, but it wasn't until late 2017 did they return to improve the Steppe for the Stalingrad map and improve winter textures.

For the Velikiye Luki map, that's just a winter map, but recently they stated that they are going to add a Summer Velikiye Luki map in update 4.009, who knows what else they'll do to it?

 

I think people should stop with all of this nitpicking about the Tobruk map, as with every map in games including IL-2 GBs, they have a few issues after they're first released, but they always fix them in a short time, do they not?

I for one am happy that I can fly over map, other than the Channel, which I've been doing for the past 5 years. I'm sure others have been doing that longer and are glad to fly over another map, with many (mostly) bug free campaigns and many new aircraft.

[69thSpiritus]

I'll unlock the thread in a bit. Get back on topic and stop bickering/insulting each other. 

[DD_Arthur]

53 minutes ago, 69thSpiritus said:

I'll unlock the thread in a bit. Get back on topic and stop bickering/insulting each other. 

 

It's not like the ATAG forum here, is it Spiritus?

[Wolfstriked]

In case many of missed this TF stated they will bump up map tiles to 4K as right now only cities and town tiles are 4K.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

17 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

They charged people money for this game.

 

 

Please, prove the above statement.

[simfan2015]

Personally don't understand what could be 'disappointing' about Tobruk map or... It's other features!? 

By simply looking at the TF YouTube (beta version videos) channel I knew very well what was coming and what not. 

Same with il-2 GB (and dcs for that matter)...there is so much out there. 

As we know by now the new map is still a WIP, so I will see what happens with it. Same with all the EA DCS maps such as the channel and Syria maps (nevertheless these were also day 1 purchases for me). To me it very clear most, if not all, Sim titles are WIP forever. 

To me that is not bad at all... If updates... stop coming only then it is time to move on (to a new title with ungoing support) ! 

 

[Lusekofte]

This is typical, 

one can understand the critique of op 

and @Semor76 very accurate and to the point posts. Then someone come in and defend developers, fine, then people with no interest what so ever like @BraveSirRobin come in with only one intention to stir the pot, making the critique look cheap and as a intention to harm the game. 
When I fired up the game for the first time in a Wellington all I saw was a bright yellow surface , so bright that the cockpit just seemed to be a black surface. 
After a while flying I was ok with it , there are areas that is beautiful. I can live with this, but as Semor say , it is room for a massive improvement. It is a legit claim. 
Having to live with things is the most needed attribute we need in all combat flight sims. 
And btw, 70 bucks is cheap for the content. No matter your economical situation. It should be obvious that the workload needed to get this done can never be payed with such a small Price

 

People wanting improvements is often the most devoted ones. 
The title of this topic was honest but in my mind bad put. It would be more beneficial calling it something else

Edited August 13, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Why do you feel confused Kendo?

 

BraveSirRobin is free to be unhappy with the Tobruk map. Everybody's free to express his or her views.

 

But BraveSirRobin is reproaching Team Fusion Simulations for charging people money. And, as far as I know, Team Fusion Simulations charged nobody's money. I think 1C did it. Which is fair to me because, if my understanding is correct, the deal between both companies depended on a few requirements and conditions to be fullfilled.

 

Please Kendo, please BraveSirRobin, doublecheck if whether or not TFS got at least one penny for their work on Tobruk. I may be wrong, but I think they didn't.

[OBT-Mikmak]

23 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

It should be obvious that the workload needed to get this done can never be payed with such a small Price

Totally agree, it is really cheap for all that content which is not only focus on superficial aspect points but also and mainly on deep features really important for gameplay.

[DD_Arthur]

1 minute ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Please Kendo, please BraveSirRobin, doublecheck if whether or not TFS got at least one penny for their work on Tobruk. I may be wrong, but I think they didn't.

Lol. Why don’t you ask Buzzsaw? It’s a straight forward enough question. 

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, DD_Arthur said:

Lol. Why don’t you ask Buzzsaw? It’s a straight forward enough question. 

As I understand it 1C distribute it like they do GB. They hold the budget. 
But TFS will get their share. Like developers in GB does. If there is no interest , 1 C pull the plug on it. Is my guess

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, DD_Arthur said:

Lol. Why don’t you ask Buzzsaw? It’s a straight forward enough question. 

 

 

You are not getting my point. I'm confident with Buzzsaw reading the present topic and bringing the answer by himself sooner or later. My point is that, to me, it is fair enough if denigrators denigrate... unless they didn't doublechecked before their denigrating statements. We'll know sooner or later if whether or not our money was charged by Team Fusion Simulations. I trust this will be the end of that specific matter in the topic.

[DD_Arthur]

9 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

You are not getting my point. 

I don’t think I am. You seem to be saying Team Fusion are not getting any money for this. This seems an unlikely situation. I think Luse has it correct btw.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, DD_Arthur said:

I don’t think I am. You seem to be saying Team Fusion are not getting any money for this. This seems an unlikely situation. I think Luse has it correct btw.

 

 

You didn't get my point. Some people here are stating that Team Fusion Simulations (TFS) ALREADY charged us money. Please read again Luse's post.

 

Otherwhise, when I talk about "requirements and conditions to be fulfilled" I don't mean I know such contracts and agreements. I mean that it should be clarified if whether or not TFS decided to bring us this add-on (wich represents a pretty amount of work and efforts) at the risk of not being payed after release.

 

Please, let's be serious and let's read each other statements paying serious attention to the semantics of our respective wordings.

[Dagwoodyt]

I wouldn't bother biting on this one. Wherever the game money landed it is still gone, never to return. Anyway the thread title says it all.

[KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82]

Ok lads,

lets have your discussion here - I am heading out over the desert with my squadron mates to have actual FUN

[Buzzsaw]

Hello

 

We cannot comment on our contract with 1C for TOBRUK other than to say we will at some point receive some compensation, but nothing received prior to the release.

 

Last comment in this question.

[Dagwoodyt]

6 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Hello

 

We cannot comment on our contract with 1C for TOBRUK other than to say we will at some point receive some compensation, but nothing received prior to the release.

 

Last comment in this question.

Thanks for the heads up!

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Dear Buzzsaw, thank you for the clarification.

 

Team Fusion Simulations didn't charge any money for their work. Others did it. As stated by LuseKofte, they (Team Fusion) will get their share, but this hasn't happened yet.

[kendo]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:20 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Why do you feel confused Kendo?

 

BraveSirRobin is free to be unhappy with the Tobruk map. Everybody's free to express his or her views.

 

But BraveSirRobin is reproaching Team Fusion Simulations for charging people money. And, as far as I know, Team Fusion Simulations charged nobody's money. I think 1C did it. Which is fair to me because, if my understanding is correct, the deal between both companies depended on a few requirements and conditions to be fullfilled.

 

Please Kendo, please BraveSirRobin, doublecheck if whether or not TFS got at least one penny for their work on Tobruk. I may be wrong, but I think they didn't.

 

Why confused? I couldn't envisage that Team Fusion would not be getting a cut at least from the proceeds of Tobruk. Doesn't really matter when they get it or what amount of the overall takings makes it to them. But given that it is now paid content and a new instalment i couldn't see it would be any other way ( unless someone is pushing modern day slavery...?).

 

Just want to make clear that I'm not knocking them or the sim. It's good to see their hard work over many years finally get the reward it deserves, and i wish them success.  

Edited August 14, 2020 by kendo

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Kendo... you reacted "confused" to a comment on BraveSirRobin... who is stating that TFS has already charged money for Tobruk.

 

But the fact is that my suspicion was right: TFS didn't get any money. Not yet. You got it Kendo? Not yet.

 

Not... yet...

 

Not yet.

 

Thus, please show some respect for people working for free since... 2012 (yes they started working in a really operational simulator in 2012... so come on, everybody: THANK YOU TEAM FUSION!).

 

If they get any money for their work on Tobruk, this will happen AFTER RELEASE only... and the money they'll get will be far bellow the cost of labour at rates since 2012.

 

In other words: taking into account all the time and efforts they spent on this add-on, whatever the amount of money they charge to 1C, their margin of profit will be ridiculously low anyway.

 

I thought the above was clear to everybody. On the contrary, it appears that it has to be pointed out again, again and again.

Edited August 14, 2020 by 343KKT_Kintaro
has to be point out => has to be pointED out

[No.54_Reddog]

I don't really get what point you're making Kintaro. Repeatedly. As I said before, you don't really know wtf you're on about. Some of us actually do.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

14 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

I don't really get what point you're making Kintaro.

 

 

You don't?

 

Is it justified to state "They charged people money for this game" if they didn't?

 

Do you get now what point I'm making?

[Madcop]

This product ( TOBROUK) is a payware. I don't care whether the money  goes to X or Z.  The fact that we have to pay for a product just changed everything.

With money comes the constraint. And I think that's why TOBROUK is a step back from Blitz. I don't think they have taken the time to test TOBROUK before releasing it...or had it tested by blind men ....

Do not tell me that the money didn't play a role in that ! 

TOBROUK is a "faire valoir" for BoX.  Well done Box !

 

[Lusekofte]

To me GB or BOX as you call it fill the shoes. It is in my mind too simplified. 
Beautiful and all that, but really nothing to offer for people not interested in Dogfights and more into objective. This is shown by latest choices if planes and how gameplay is on mp. 
For me cod fit the bill perfectly, and obviously GB for fill your wishes. Unlike pretty much 90% of the vocal community here, me and a few others actually can enjoy more than one sim, for what they are. And not treat them as enemy. 
Because not one is remotely close to perfect, and none fits everyones taste. 
It is simply a game of accepting what is and hope for improvements fir all of them

Edited August 14, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Redwo1f]

Yes, isn't it nice that we can enjoy several sims, and there is room for both BOX and DWT - each with their own pro's and con's.

 

Heck, I currently have installed and still play many different combat flight sims: CLOD/DWT, BOX, WOFF, Il2 1946 (BAT), SF2 Vietnam (modded), SF2 Nato Fighters...even messed around with updated/modded EAW installations and played around once again with DCS (though that didn't last too long for me, lol). - there is NO perfect choice (and they all have weaknesses), but every one offers something that I can enjoy.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Redwo1f

[kendo]

4 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Kendo... you reacted "confused" to a comment on BraveSirRobin... who is stating that TFS has already charged money for Tobruk.

 

But the fact is that my suspicion was right: TFS didn't get any money. Not yet. You got it Kendo? Not yet.

 

Not... yet...

 

Not yet.

 

Thus, please show some respect for people working for free since... 2012 (yes they started working in a really operational simulator in 2012... so come on, everybody: THANK YOU TEAM FUSION!).

 

If they get any money for their work on Tobruk, this will happen AFTER RELEASE only... and the money they'll get will be far bellow the cost of labour at rates since 2012.

 

In other words: taking into account all the time and efforts they spent on this add-on, whatever the amount of money they charge to 1C, their margin of profit will be ridiculously low anyway.

 

I thought the above was clear to everybody. On the contrary, it appears that it has to be pointed out again, again and again.

 

On 8/12/2020 at 4:57 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

They charged people money for this game.  That means that they’re no longer volunteers.

 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:32 AM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

Please, prove the above statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[69thSpiritus]

Photos with swastikas continue to get posted,  personal attacks against members and companies, and a basic disregard to what this thread was created for.