Spawning Trains is bugged (Collision or Orientation)

[JG4_Deciman]

Hi there

 

I've been running into a strange bug (or issue)...

 

Whenever I tried to spawn trains into an environment WITH buildings (spawning at a station b.e.)

sometimes it worked without problems

and sometimes not

 

In case all went well:
Train spawned at the desired position with the desired orientation and was able to move afterwards

 

In other cases:

Train spawned at the desired position

Train had NOT the desired orientation

Train rotated afterwards (before!!! getting the 'move to waypoint' triggered)

Carriages had collisions with buildings during rotation

Train was not able to move any more

 

Tried up to now:

Align orientation of the train as close as possible to the track and direction it should move (and set it on ground again)

Remove entity afterwards

Recreate entity afterwards

So everything should be aligned correctly.

 

Noticed up to now:

 

Trains spawning general direction south (90 - 270 degrees) do NOT rotate after spawn

I only noticed a rotation of the locomotive, but not of the carriages.

Carriages were spawned with correct orientation.

 

Trains spawning general direction north (270 - 90 degrees) DO rotate after spawn

Locomotive AND carriages rotate until desired orientation

Carriages collide with environment

Train is damaged and will not move

 

In every orientation AFTER getting move command:

(tried without buildings on the map)

Train will align perfectly to the track (in my mission I'm talking about 1-2 degrees difference between set orientation and moving orientation)

Train will move (if not damaged)

 

 

Location where I've noticed the detains:

Bielefeld (0936-7 Rheinland map)

 

All my trains outbound SOUTH move

All my trains outbound NORTH crash

 

And in case an admin wants a mission/group for further testing (warning, very complex logic inside)

just contact me and you'll get the mission and a short (or longer) information about 'how it works'...

 

On the screenshot you can see the train.

Carriages offside the track were the ones with spawning orientation

Carriages on track were the ones with desired orientation.

Desired orientation was about 45 degrees,

so it seems the train spawned with a heading FROM south TO north (heading 0)

even if it was orientated at 45 about degrees

 

 

Deci

 

 

 

Adding:

 

Maybe this affects only trains, maybe it affects other objects (in formation), too

And I noticed it the first time before the update to 4.006 and forther bugfixes

 

Deci

Edited June 8, 2020 by JG4_Deciman

[IckyATLAS]

It maybe a Rheineland map issue.

I have no problem of this kind on the Kuban map, where I have trains spawned in all directions and moving in all directions.

 

[JG4_Deciman]

Maybe, maybe not...

 

I'll try to implement some further debugging into my mission.

Maybe I can collect more data.

 

But I can confirm another bug (map related)

 

Rheinland map - Lippstadt (0134-9)

There is a factory located between 2 tracks

1 of the tanks was removed (because it's on the track)

A bit above and right you can see a building (it's located in a different block) that is also on the track.

That building must be removed, too

 

No screenshot available, I deleted that block from my mission

 

Deci

 

 

 

[-DED-Rapidus]

@JG4_Deciman, Please check in the new version, fixed.

[JG4_Deciman]

tnx, i'll check and continue my testings

 

Deci

[JG4_Deciman]

On 6/16/2020 at 4:11 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

@JG4_Deciman, Please check in the new version, fixed.

 

Spawning issue seems fixed.

I could still watch the locomotive rotate sometimes

but the carriages are aligned as they should and do not rotate (so no damage)

 

The building on track at 'Lippstadt' is still present.

 

And I've encountered the next problem...

Trains really HATE using bridges....

Whenever a train with carriages drives over a bridge the carriages bump.

And the possibility of the carriages to derail or loose connection to the train are very high.

 

Tried so far:

Reducing speed step by step from 80 to 60 km/h (knowing that trains were able to drive much faster)

 

Result:

Some bridges (mostly the bigger ones) reduce the possibility for derailing at slower speeds

Smaller bridges still do

 

The locomotive itself is crossing fine at any tested speed.

 

Deci

[-DED-Rapidus]

@JG4_Deciman, we need an example of a mission where there is a problem with train and bridges.

5 hours ago, JG4_Deciman said:

The building on track at 'Lippstadt' is still present.

I need a screenshot of the map where the building is and the square on the map.

[JG4_Deciman]

5 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@JG4_Deciman, we need an example of a mission where there is a problem with train and bridges.

I need a screenshot of the map where the building is and the square on the map.

 

Mission (link to the files) sent by pm.

 

Rheinland map - Lippstadt (0134-9)

Screenshot added.

 

And some screenshots of a train passing the bridge at 0736 (same map) and bumping

 

 

 

[jollyjack]

Hi Deci. Just downloaded your train chaser.Curious as i was .... Couldn't load it in 4.501, loads in the ME. Re saved, changed from Deathmatch to Single, still not loading.

Have you updated it maybe? Cheers JJ

Edited October 2, 2020 by jollyjack

[JG4_Deciman]

1 hour ago, jollyjack said:

Hi Deci. Just downloaded your train chaser.Curious as i was .... Couldn't load it in 4.501, loads in the ME. Re saved, changed from Deathmatch to Single, still not loading.

Have you updated it maybe? Cheers JJ

Try to resave it manually in ME after loading it according to your own system directories using a different name.

I guess its because of the subfolder structure where I saved it on my pc.

And these structure is present in the '.list' file

which is loaded from the dserver, too and cannot find the content in diferent stuctures.

 

The mission itself is updated to 4.501

 

Deci

Edited October 2, 2020 by JG4_Deciman

[jollyjack]

OK thanks. Would not load on my system, so i reloaded the map in the ME, bingo. It seems there's no player set.

And i understand why it took you a year to get so far, hats off ..!

Edited October 2, 2020 by jollyjack

[J99_Sizzlorr]

I figured when the first waypoint of the train is set too close to the train, then it will switch orientation and drive off in the wrong direction.

[-DED-Rapidus]

@J99_Sizzlorr, so it is, you need to put a point (preferably) no closer than 300 meters, otherwise everything happens as you wrote.

[JG4_Deciman]

I guess there must be other things, too.

I'm still having problems with my (very complex) train logic.

 

Same group, 2 different positions on the track.

 

Position 1

Train despawns and is 'remembered' as it should.

Second train passes the despawned one

Train respawns (SpawnOnMe) with the correct orientation

Train is told to move to his next waypoint some seconds later (and that is the only waypoint triggered)

Train 'decides' to follow the other train, turns around, moves the wrong direction and derails shortly afterwards (simply going directly ahead instead of staying on the track when the track has a curve)

 

Position 2

Train does exactly what it should do.

 

Waypoint distances for both positions:

Train spawns directly on a waypoint position (but waypoint and connected actions are disabled)

Next (deactivated) waypoint for the train is 500m away

Next (and only) active and triggered waypoint is 600m away.

 

 

Deci

[JG4_Deciman]

Mission containing the 'problem' attached.

 

I know that debugging will be hard/impossible because it contains the entire logic.

 

Problem is located at the checkpoint between 'Bielefeld' and 'Guetersloh'

Exactly the same logic is used north of 'Quakenbrueck', too (but without subtitles).

 

Simply spawn at 'Observer', use external view and move straight up.

Sooner or laster trains from 'Bielefeld' and ''Guetersloh' will drive towards the checkpoint.

And whenever I tested, the train from BIE arrived there first.

 

Train should wait there (working)

Despawn when other train arrives (working)

Other train should continue his track (working)

Despawned train should spawn again, heading towards his former target (working)

and proceed his track (NOT working)

 

In fact the trans spawns with the desired orientation

is ordered to move to the next waypoint (and subtitles show clearly that ONLY this waypoint is triggered!!!)

turns arround

follows the other train for a while

and then derails.

 

In the meantime the same logic at the other position does exactly what it should...

 

Deci

 

 

 

TrainChaser3.zip

[-DED-Rapidus]

@JG4_Deciman, please, I don't need a full mission, I just need a piece of where the trains are, without additional things like subtitles and a AI logic that isn't responsible for the trains.

[JG4_Deciman]

Here a very small version.

Spawning a train at BIE and letting it move towards GUE after mission start (2 min delay for spawning, 30 seconds afterwards for moving)

The train turns arround after reaching the 'checkpoint'

 

Map cannot be changed, I really think it is map related.

All waypoints are taken from the 'problem' part

and triggered in the way, my master logic would do (without any delay in this mission)

 

Same waypoint distances (containing my master logic) in a different position are working.

 

 

debugging.zip

[jollyjack]

On 10/4/2020 at 9:35 AM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I figured when the first waypoint of the train is set too close to the train, then it will switch orientation and drive off in the wrong direction.

 

I had that too ..... not realizing the waypoint distance played a role. Fixed it by redoing waypoints with a gradual speed up of the train involved ...

 

PS a sideliner; this is from Train Simulator 2021, a dedicated Trains specific game, and this loc can move without rails,

fly without bridges, and with even two shadows below it. Really, i don't think we have such problems by far in Il2 an we should stop pestering Rapidus et al ...

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by jollyjack

[JG4_Deciman]

Shortest distance between 2 waypoints is 100m

Distance to initial waypoint triggered is 500m

Train is running at 90 km/h (25 m/s)

so shortest distance will take the train 4 seconds of movement...

[JG4_Deciman]

@-DED-Rapidus

 

Uploaded a very small version

 

Afterwards I made some more tests (different position, same problems)

 

Moving waypoints (more distance) -> no change

sending a 'Force complete' after problematic waypoints have been touched and triggering next one with a delay -> no change

Disabling waypoints after beeing touched -> no change

 

Using all -> working

 

But according to all I've tested (and that means a lot of groups containing the same logic and the same minimum distances)

the only reason is:

 

Having a waypoint on the track (even all its outgoing actions are disabled)

OR

having a too small distance

OR

having a too high speed for the distances

OR

unknown

 

MAY (!!!) cause problems.

But what exactly causes the problem is still unknown...

 

Deci