New PWCG Issues Thread

[PatrickAWlson]

42 minutes ago, Dusty926 said:

I'm having an issue with the most current version;

Running a COOP campaign with a friend, I select the Stalingrad map, but it uses East1944 instead, with completely different progression and sometimes just different airfields outright. It doesn't seem to actually be using Stalingrad as its basis like it's supposed to.

 

Additionally, by August of 1942, planes in this progression start to accelerate seemingly to Kuban times; Yak-7s, Yak-1bs, 109 G-4s, etc.

 

Can you zip up your campaign and post it?  PWCG reuses the Stalingrad map for eastern front 1944.  It knows the difference by the date.  If you are seeing the planes that you are seeing then I am guessing that you have a campaign going in 1944 instead of 1942.

[Dusty926]

56 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Can you zip up your campaign and post it?  PWCG reuses the Stalingrad map for eastern front 1944.  It knows the difference by the date.  If you are seeing the planes that you are seeing then I am guessing that you have a campaign going in 1944 instead of 1942.

Sure thing! Sorry for the trouble, it's just odd to me is all. I saw you'd fixed it in a much earlier version but for some reason mine seems to be having issues. The switch to Kuban was fine I found out, but it's a little weird to see the Yak-1b in 1942, or the -7, and such.

1942 Stalingrad but east1944 and with some Kuban planes.zip

Edited December 6, 2021 by Dusty926

[Leon_Portier]

16 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Which missions?  Most of them just put you on the ground with everybody else.  There is air and ground activity.  What you choose to do is up to you.

Thanks for the reply! I got a example PWCG iconic mission, maybe that clears things up.

For example SU-152 in Kuban Kerch amphibious assault.
Mission title: Kuban Kerch Amphibious Assault 1943-11-01 AAA

Briefing: 1.11.1943 Primary Objective Shoot down enemy aircraft

Kuban Kerch Amphibious Assault 1943-11-01.zip

 

Looks like I misunderstood something about the mission

Edited December 6, 2021 by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

Thanks for the reply! I got a example PWCG iconic mission, maybe that clears things up.

For example SU-152 in Kuban Kerch amphibious assault.
Mission title: Kuban Kerch Amphibious Assault 1943-11-01 AAA

Briefing: 1.11.1943 Primary Objective Shoot down enemy aircraft

Kuban Kerch Amphibious Assault 1943-11-01.zip 119.76 kB · 0 downloads

 

Looks like I misunderstood something about the mission

 

Ah, I see, the mission objective is off.  Yeah, you can ignore that and blow up whatever you want.  I wrote that when I did this for AA trucks and never modified it for other vehicles.

 

Vehicle missions in PWCG are just for the fun of scooting around and doing whatever you want to do.  They are not at the level of the hand edited missions (or PWCG air missions) with designed objectives, etc.  Just a way to have some fun. 

 

I have played several and they are a not bad and not without challenges.  Probably easier than most hand edited missions, but also, in some ways possibly more realistic than some, as they do not contain unrealistic pressures to do gamey things.  They also have the added bonus of being somewhat different every time you generate one, even if it is the same event.

Edited December 6, 2021 by PatrickAWlson

[Leon_Portier]

50 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Ah, I see, the mission objective is off.  Yeah, you can ignore that and blow up whatever you want.  I wrote that when I did this for AA trucks and never modified it for other vehicles.

 

Vehicle missions in PWCG are just for the fun of scooting around and doing whatever you want to do.  They are not at the level of the hand edited missions (or PWCG air missions) with designed objectives, etc.  Just a way to have some fun. 

 

I have played several and they are a not bad and not without challenges.  Probably easier than most hand edited missions, but also, in some ways possibly more realistic than some, as they do not contain unrealistic pressures to do gamey things.  They also have the added bonus of being somewhat different every time you generate one, even if it is the same event.

Thanks for the answer, I'm glad the iconic missions are in for vehicles too!

[thejerrow]

I'm currently having an issue with the P-51 AI, at the start of every mission, coop or single they just sit on the runway not doing anything. I've went out and done a mission on my own and when i returned to base they still just sat there on the runway. Haven't had this happen with any other Allied or German AI. Attached the last mission i tried just 5 minutes ago.

Allied Solo 1944-09-01.zip

[JG1_Jaus]

After action report error...   here are the associated error reports requested in the error message.

PWCGErrorLog.txt 1917 Campaign202112062312700.zip

[Dusty926]

@PatrickAWlsonAnother issue, this time in my Flying Circus campaign; I can't remember if this was different at the start of the campaign, but Balloon related missions are not spawning balloons. I don't understand why, but they're just absent.

 

Here's an attached mission, a Balloon Bust mission with no balloon.

Balloon Bust but no balloon.zip

[[NOSIG]_Salsam]

I know Ive posted about this before, but really would like some help figure this out - Our Wendsday PWCG campaign is REALLY the hightlight of the week (game night) ?

 

TLDR; First generated mission the AAR works, but all missions after gives same AAR error (pic)

 

Conditions:

• Running with Dserver.exe w PWCG on server (been running >5 PWCG campaigns like this before)
• Our own physical Win10 server within minimum specifications for IL2 (runs w descent fps)
• Latest IL-2 GB version (updated)
• P.W.C.G. version 13.5.0 (been using v9.0.0 to current)
• ~12 human pilots (w a few AI cadets as reserves)
• All participants own IL-2 BoS & BoBP
• Running a RAF campaign (01/10/1944)
  • 56. Sqdn (Tempest)
  • 66. Sqdn (Spitfire IXe)
  • ~6 players in each Sqdn
• PWCG settings slightly changed to suit gameplay (more info on settings below)
• Player pilots added to list in "Administer Coop"
• Player pilots added to "Administer Pilots" inside campaign

Description (in PWCG):

1. Generate 1st campaign mission w all human pilots (including 3 AI cadet planes)
2. Start & load mission in Dserver.exe
3. All players "Finish mission" and click "leave server"
4. Enter PWCG and runs "Combat Report", runs "Debrief" and "Claims"
5. PWCG accepts and moves campaign forward
6. Repeats step 1-3
7. Runs "Combat report" and gets error (see attached pic)

Trouble shooting this far without any luck:

• Moving the campaign date (01/09/1944-> 10/10/1944)
• Restart campaign (new) with...
  • ...same setup
  • ...only one human player
  • ...only 56. Sqdn
  • ...only 66. Sqdn
  • ...different player ranks (Did find a possible bugg (?) when creating a pilot with rank SQUADRON LEADER, you can´t be assigned to 66. sqdn. All ranks below works fine and Squadron Leader rank works for 56. and 184.)
  • ...pilot names w/o all English letters, no numericals, special figues or spaces
• Run PWCG & Dserver w Admin rights
• Reinstalled PWCG & IL-2 (Deleted any old folders/files and double checked startup.cfg to confirm logs are enabled)
• Run PWCG with all default config settings
• Restarting new STALINGRAD Campaign w same settings - same error!
• Installing and running IL2 and the PWCG campaign on my computer offline - same error!

Conclution?

• Last known PWCG version it worked was ~v.12.3.0-ish thou it was a German BoK campaign. Thou we never tried a RAF or BoBP campaign before.
• Have been doing slight adjustments to campaign configs over time to adjust for gameplay, but tried to rule them out by resetting to default.
• Cant find any older PWCG versions to reference check

I´ve spent hours testing and trying to figure this out so we can start flying with PWCG again.

I really appreciate all or any help... if only to confirm its a PWCG error and not something I´ve screwed up

Market Garden IV202112071312877.zip PWCGErrorLog.txt

[JG1_Jaus]

I have run out of room on my pilot administration page in PWCG-FC.   How can I delete dead/retired pilots to make room on the page for new ones?  Thanks.

[PatrickAWlson]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:52 AM, [NOSIG]_Salsam said:

I know Ive posted about this before, but really would like some help figure this out - Our Wendsday PWCG campaign is REALLY the hightlight of the week (game night) ?

 

TLDR; First generated mission the AAR works, but all missions after gives same AAR error (pic)

 

Conditions:

• Running with Dserver.exe w PWCG on server (been running >5 PWCG campaigns like this before)
• Our own physical Win10 server within minimum specifications for IL2 (runs w descent fps)
• Latest IL-2 GB version (updated)
• P.W.C.G. version 13.5.0 (been using v9.0.0 to current)
• ~12 human pilots (w a few AI cadets as reserves)
• All participants own IL-2 BoS & BoBP
• Running a RAF campaign (01/10/1944)
  • 56. Sqdn (Tempest)
  • 66. Sqdn (Spitfire IXe)
  • ~6 players in each Sqdn
• PWCG settings slightly changed to suit gameplay (more info on settings below)
• Player pilots added to list in "Administer Coop"
• Player pilots added to "Administer Pilots" inside campaign

Description (in PWCG):

1. Generate 1st campaign mission w all human pilots (including 3 AI cadet planes)
2. Start & load mission in Dserver.exe
3. All players "Finish mission" and click "leave server"
4. Enter PWCG and runs "Combat Report", runs "Debrief" and "Claims"
5. PWCG accepts and moves campaign forward
6. Repeats step 1-3
7. Runs "Combat report" and gets error (see attached pic)

Trouble shooting this far without any luck:

• Moving the campaign date (01/09/1944-> 10/10/1944)
• Restart campaign (new) with...
  • ...same setup
  • ...only one human player
  • ...only 56. Sqdn
  • ...only 66. Sqdn
  • ...different player ranks (Did find a possible bugg (?) when creating a pilot with rank SQUADRON LEADER, you can´t be assigned to 66. sqdn. All ranks below works fine and Squadron Leader rank works for 56. and 184.)
  • ...pilot names w/o all English letters, no numericals, special figues or spaces
• Run PWCG & Dserver w Admin rights
• Reinstalled PWCG & IL-2 (Deleted any old folders/files and double checked startup.cfg to confirm logs are enabled)
• Run PWCG with all default config settings
• Restarting new STALINGRAD Campaign w same settings - same error!
• Installing and running IL2 and the PWCG campaign on my computer offline - same error!

Conclution?

• Last known PWCG version it worked was ~v.12.3.0-ish thou it was a German BoK campaign. Thou we never tried a RAF or BoBP campaign before.
• Have been doing slight adjustments to campaign configs over time to adjust for gameplay, but tried to rule them out by resetting to default.
• Cant find any older PWCG versions to reference check

I´ve spent hours testing and trying to figure this out so we can start flying with PWCG again.

I really appreciate all or any help... if only to confirm its a PWCG error and not something I´ve screwed up

Market Garden IV202112071312877.zip 505.12 kB · 1 download PWCGErrorLog.txt 2 kB · 1 download

 

Looked into this and the error is correct from PWCG's point of view.   The latest log set for the mission being flown has no spawns.  I also see one other, earlier log set for the same mission, so it looks like the mission was started twice.  Is it possible that the second start was triggered by the server?  Both have the same day, but one log set is time stamped at 11:43:40 while the later, invalid log set is time stamped at 13:33:12, nearly two hours later.

 

The 11:43:40 log set is valid and produces usable results.

The 13:33:12 log set is not valid.  No idea why/how it was generated two hours after the first.  However, being the later log set for the same mission, PWCG will use it in preference to the earlier one. 

 

Recovery:

If you delete the later, invalid log set (all files beginning with missionReport(2021-12-07_13-33-12)) the AAR will go through.

 

Suggestions: not much that I can do to prevent this from happening, but there are some things that you might be able to do to help. 

1. Do the AAR ASAP after a mission. 

2. Turn the server off after a mission so it does not somehow generate more logs.

 

An older version of PWCG is not going to help, as using the latest available log set has been PWCG's method for years.

[PatrickAWlson]

@[NOSIG]_Salsam
A couple of updates and a request for more information:

There were three sets of logs in the zip for the same mission:

11:43:40 Valid.

13:00:16 Valid.

13:33:12 Not valid. 

 

It looks like you flew the mission twice, once at 11:43 and again at 1:00.  The 1:33 log set is garbage.  PWCG checks for spawn records and there are none in the log set, which is weird.  Player planes spawn immediately on mission start, so I have no idea how a mission could be run without any spawns.

 

Can you tell me what you really did?   Did you fly it once?  Twice?  Any ideas what's up with the the set?

 

When PWCG does an AAR it has to deal with the possibility that the mission was flown more than once.  It does this by getting all mission log sets pertaining to the mission and choosing the last one generated.  I did write some code that removes invalid log sets from that list, so PWCG will now grab the last valid log set instead of last log set.

 

I would still like to know what the server is doing.  Are the missions starting repeatedly? 

[PatrickAWlson]

On 12/5/2021 at 11:58 PM, Dusty926 said:

Sure thing! Sorry for the trouble, it's just odd to me is all. I saw you'd fixed it in a much earlier version but for some reason mine seems to be having issues. The switch to Kuban was fine I found out, but it's a little weird to see the Yak-1b in 1942, or the -7, and such.

1942 Stalingrad but east1944 and with some Kuban planes.zip 194.27 kB · 1 download

 

I looked at your campaign.  It is late July 1942 and you are in Kuban.  This is correct.  You will go back to the Stalingrad map on August 1, so probably within 1 or 2 missions.

[Dusty926]

28 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I looked at your campaign.  It is late July 1942 and you are in Kuban.  This is correct.  You will go back to the Stalingrad map on August 1, so probably within 1 or 2 missions.

But are planes like the Yak-1b and the -7 and such supposed to be active too? Even if we're visiting Kuban for a moment it seems odd that they would be around as early as now.

[PatrickAWlson]

49 minutes ago, Dusty926 said:

But are planes like the Yak-1b and the -7 and such supposed to be active too? Even if we're visiting Kuban for a moment it seems odd that they would be around as early as now.

 

I have the Yak1-Series 127 (Yak-1b) available on June 1 1942, so about 2 months before your campaign date. 

I have the Yak-7 becoming available in October of 1942.  Your squadron is equipped with the Yak-1 Series 127 and the older Yak-1 Series 69.  It does not have any Yak-7s.  Most of your planes are Series 69 but a fair number are 127, about what I would expect as the 127 replaces the 69.

[[NOSIG]_Salsam]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:24 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

@[NOSIG]_Salsam
A couple of updates and a request for more information:

There were three sets of logs in the zip for the same mission:

11:43:40 Valid.

13:00:16 Valid.

13:33:12 Not valid. 

 

It looks like you flew the mission twice, once at 11:43 and again at 1:00.  The 1:33 log set is garbage.  PWCG checks for spawn records and there are none in the log set, which is weird.  Player planes spawn immediately on mission start, so I have no idea how a mission could be run without any spawns.

 

Can you tell me what you really did?   Did you fly it once?  Twice?  Any ideas what's up with the the set?

 

When PWCG does an AAR it has to deal with the possibility that the mission was flown more than once.  It does this by getting all mission log sets pertaining to the mission and choosing the last one generated.  I did write some code that removes invalid log sets from that list, so PWCG will now grab the last valid log set instead of last log set.

 

I would still like to know what the server is doing.  Are the missions starting repeatedly? 

 

@PatrickAWlsonThanks a bunch! Deleting the double set of log files did the trick - AAR working again *whoop whoop* I knew It was me messing things up! ?️‍♀️

Turns out, the timer for launching next mission, or rather relaunching the same again, since I´ve only keep current mission in the Dserver list, caused the double log files - but this time without players). That´s now fixed by simply adding another mission to load, this buy me time to access server and close down Dserver.

 

Regarding the attached files and logs - They´re not the original campaign files, just a to show the error (sorry for the confusion)

I´ve been doing sooo many test while troubleshooting I guess it´s a bit of a hot mess and I´ve probably replayed the same missions while trying out different config/pilot setups.

 

Thanks again! We finally go back to enjoying PWCG

[PatrickAWlson]

@[NOSIG]_Salsam I appreciate your bringing this to my attention.  I don't fly coop myself so I am not really familiar with use cases as they differ from single player.  This is something that can happen in coop but not in SP.  

 

I managed to write some code to automatically weed out invalid log sets, where invalid is defined as no spawns detected.  I already had that check in place but PWCG was throwing the error that you saw.  In the next release it will look for the next log set that matches the mission and try to use that.  That will solve the problem that you are seeing.

[justin_z3r0]

Hey Pat - Just an observation. The latest version (13.6.0) seems to have an added delay when submitting a combat report. it seems to take 30-45 sec after hitting the button before the screen changes. I don't recall it ever taking this long. Not a huge issue as everything functions as normal after the delay. Maybe its intentional? We need to take a breather after each sortie.

[JG1_Jaus]

Last night my squad tried the first coop in PWCG-FC where we had pilots on both sides.   After generating the mission and entering the game we found that, although the maps/waypoints that the players saw matched the side/squadron that they were assigned to,  the briefing in the side bar was the Entente briefing for both Entente and Central players.   I'm guessing this is because the reference pilot was Entente.

 

Is there any way to make the generator create two briefs so that each side sees only its own mission description in the sidebar?

[PatrickAWlson]

2 hours ago, JG1_Jaus said:

Last night my squad tried the first coop in PWCG-FC where we had pilots on both sides.   After generating the mission and entering the game we found that, although the maps/waypoints that the players saw matched the side/squadron that they were assigned to,  the briefing in the side bar was the Entente briefing for both Entente and Central players.   I'm guessing this is because the reference pilot was Entente.

 

Is there any way to make the generator create two briefs so that each side sees only its own mission description in the sidebar?

 

No.  Not a PWCG thing but an in game thing.  It only supports one mission description.  What I can do is sort of the opposite.  If players are on both sides I would have to make the mission description pretty generic to avoid giving information away.  

 

Out of curiosity, was the mission fun with people playing both sides?

[Ace_Pilto]

What if you scrapped the flight plan from the briefing and just mentioned particular sectors. eg: "An enemy recon plane has been seen in sector 7G" or something?

[JG1_Jaus]

Removing the mission description in two-sided missions would be a good mod.   I told the players that they can get a brief side-specific  mission description by hovering over the icon near the airfield of origin.

 

We had 8 players, 4 per side.   The first mission generation failed (quick flash of the generation progress then disappeared) but the second was a success.   The mission was fun as both flights encountered AI flights to engage.   The two missions were too far apart to encounter each other however.   For future missions I'm going to reduce the size of the mission box and the airfield search radius to 'compress' things a little for future missions.

 

On another note, you may have read my post about the 'Administer Pilots' list becoming too long.   This is an even bigger issue if I have both Central and Entente pilots for players.   Is there any way I can manually remove pilots that are dead/retired/captured?

Edited December 14, 2021 by JG1_Jaus

[PatrickAWlson]

16 minutes ago, JG1_Jaus said:

Removing the mission description in two-sided missions would be a good mod.   I told the players that they can get a brief side-specific  mission description by hovering over the icon near the airfield of origin.

 

We had 8 players, 4 per side.   The first mission generation failed (quick flash of the generation progress then disappeared) but the second was a success.   The mission was fun as both flights encountered AI flights to engage.   The two missions were too far apart to encounter each other however.   For future missions I'm going to reduce the size of the mission box and the airfield search radius to 'compress' things a little for future missions.

 

On another note, you may have read my post about the 'Administer Pilots' list becoming too long.   This is an even bigger issue if I have both Central and Entente pilots for players.   Is there any way I can manually remove pilots that are dead/retired/captured?

 

I am going to make pages with 15 pilots or so per page.  Maybe also add filter radio buttons on the side.  I wanted to do that with the last release but then the update with the DFWS came out and pre-empted that work.  It is next in the queue.

[JG1_Jaus]

Great !   The filter buttons would be huge for pilot management when you are assigning player pilots to different squads for each mission.

[Redwo1f]

Hey, wouldn't this app be log4j vulnerable now? (just trying to figure out the implications)

[Sovereign_UK]

Not sure if it's an Issue with PWCG or the AI for IL2. The Spitfires of 66 Squadron on Bodenplatte constantly crash.

With the spitfire if I jam it to full throttle quickly the engine can die, especially in dogfights when I'm constantly adjusting the throttle.

I'm wondering if the AI are doing the same, on the AAR it always says 2-3 spitfires are crashing and when I play with 66 Squadron I always lose 1-2 planes in my flight randomly.

[PatrickAWlson]

@Sovereign_UK Anything in a dogfight is AI.  Mission designers do not control that.

[Mtnbiker1998]

1 hour ago, Redwo1f said:

Hey, wouldn't this app be log4j vulnerable now? (just trying to figure out the implications)

I've been thinking about this aswell. I'm guessing not, since Pat has said PWCG doesn't communicate with anything outside of looking for the game's log files, but being the creator he'd probably know more about this.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, Redwo1f said:

Hey, wouldn't this app be log4j vulnerable now? (just trying to figure out the implications)

 

I do not use log4j

[Ronelt]

Hi, I just started a campaign flying for Luftwaffe over Moscow. Finished my first sortie, went to the Main Menu, Alt+Tabbed to PWCG and theres no Combat Report/Briefing button.

Any idea what could be the issue?

[PatrickAWlson]

59 minutes ago, Ronelt said:

Hi, I just started a campaign flying for Luftwaffe over Moscow. Finished my first sortie, went to the Main Menu, Alt+Tabbed to PWCG and theres no Combat Report/Briefing button.

Any idea what could be the issue?

 

Press "report error" on the main campaign screen and post the zip file

[JG1_Jaus]

On 12/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I am going to make pages with 15 pilots or so per page.  Maybe also add filter radio buttons on the side.  I wanted to do that with the last release but then the update with the DFWS came out and pre-empted that work.  It is next in the queue.

I've been thinking about the filter options I'd love to have so I thought I'd offer my paradigm for the Flying Circus version as a suggestion ?

 

Assuming the administer pilots page appears with all pilots as default   I'd love to see options for :

 

-Ready for duty 

-Wounded

-Deceased/Captured

-Entente

-Central 

and maybe a pull down box with each squadrons listed

 

More than one button could be checked in case you wanted to see Central pilots that are fit for duty, or pilots in 56 sqdrn. RFC, or dead/captured and wounded pilots etc.

 

Just my two cents.  Thanks for listening.

 

 

[Varibraun]

On 12/15/2021 at 2:01 PM, Sovereign_UK said:

Not sure if it's an Issue with PWCG or the AI for IL2. The Spitfires of 66 Squadron on Bodenplatte constantly crash.

With the spitfire if I jam it to full throttle quickly the engine can die, especially in dogfights when I'm constantly adjusting the throttle.

I'm wondering if the AI are doing the same, on the AAR it always says 2-3 spitfires are crashing and when I play with 66 Squadron I always lose 1-2 planes in my flight randomly.

 

On 12/15/2021 at 2:18 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

Anything in a dogfight is AI.  Mission designers do not control that.

 

Yes, I have recently been flying with 349 Sqn and noticed the same thing.  So I recorded tonight and caught at least one example.  Posted it here in the bug reports AI thread.  (Anyone else who has time might want to do the same so the Devs get it on their radar if it isn't there already):

 

 

[STG77Jeeves]

In v. 13.5, trains were on the tracks, chugging along.  Now in v. 13.6, trains are sitting beside the tracks, often perpendicular to and a short distance away from the tracks.  I suppose they're off the track for maintenance . . . .
 

 

[Ronelt]

Here is the error report. 
Luftwaffe202112171012114.zip

 

I appreciate your support for PWCG. keep it up 

[Ronelt]

Ok I solved it myself. Reinstall fixed it.

 

Nice Holidays everybody

[Fire112]

20 hours ago, StG77Jeevesovich said:

In v. 13.5, trains were on the tracks, chugging along.  Now in v. 13.6, trains are sitting beside the tracks, often perpendicular to and a short distance away from the tracks.  I suppose they're off the track for maintenance . . . .
 

 

I just started using PWCG 13.6 togehter with IL2 and I have the same problem here. Not a single train is placed on the tracks, every train is in the fields or in the water near the tracks.
Can't say how it is in other versions, this is my first try of PWCG.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Fire112

[FodderMonkey]

Gotta hand it to the Americans; stuffing the train *inside* the station makes it much harder to hit!

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by FodderMonkey

[PatrickAWlson]

Just an FYI: I have not changed anything about placing trains.  In RoF you had to place the train on the track, which was problematic.  In GB you could assign the train  position to the railroad station position and the game would put the train on the tracks.  I looked at my code and that is still what it is doing.  If this capability no longer exists then I'm afraid that I do not know how to place a train.

[TheSNAFU]

Ha, that’s one way to hide trains from air attacks! I wouldn’t think to look places where there are no tracks lol