Migoto Is a Cheat. Devs please Ban this!

[SharpeXB]

6 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Lots of mods can be used on Mods Off servers e.g. skins.

 ?

Obviously because such mods don’t affect gameplay. This one does

It’s more likely that the Migoto mod is “allowed” only because the game can’t detect it,  not because it’s got some sort of genuine approval.

[Beazil]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Obviously because such mods don’t affect gameplay. This one does

It’s more likely that the Migoto mod is “allowed” only because the game can’t detect it,  not because it’s got some sort of genuine approval.

You are fucking priceless.  

You don't know, yet you are still here talking.

[CountZero]

29 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Lots of mods can be used on Mods Off servers e.g. skins.

 

Also as I've said before, all the admins of the most popular server fly in VR so if we have to we'll just set Combat Box to Mods On which will inevitably invite much worse cheats ?

what other mods can be used on mods off servers ?

 

skins is not mod, and server can disable costum skins if he thinks people will cheat using them by making airplane skins transparent or brightly colored and so on... this program can not be disabled.

 

If devs say its ok to use this mod on mod off game then i have no problems il start to use it even, but i dont remenber them saying anything about the use of mod on mod off game.

Edited May 1, 2020 by CountZero

[[DBS]Browning]

9 minutes ago, CountZero said:

what other mods can be used on mods off servers ? 

 

Very many modifications can be made to the gaming experience without turning mods on. 

For example:

Reshade

Nvidia's shader suite

Force feedback modifications 

Any modifications that use the motion telemetry outputs (i.e. For motion platforms or ingame g-meters. 

PPYjoy and other similar programs that modify inputs sent to the game 

Overlays such as those used in teamspeak and discord 

95% resolution edits and other edits to startup.cfg

Cockpit photos with plane specific info

ATI's suite of graphical changes 

Etc. 

[Beazil]

51 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Lots of mods can be used on Mods Off servers e.g. skins.

 

Also as I've said before, all the admins of the most popular server fly in VR so if we have to we'll just set Combat Box to Mods On which will inevitably invite much worse cheats ?

What?  NO!  Are you even paying attention?

If it was a cheat it would be banned.  FFS I'm not making this up people.  Nobody wants cheats.  Nobody wants crutches - if that is really where people's heads are at, I just don't know what to tell you.  These are literally the shortcuts that make playing the game possible for those of us with VR setups.  Some of you are deliberately being slow about this.  The orignial poster worst of all.

 

The developers have precious little time.  They have less to participate in little shit fits like what we have witnessed here and explain things like this to the most vocal and unreasonable among you.  They have even less time to tweak the game for my "exotic" setup.  Or any other individual player for that matter.  They have given us tremendous support for VR, triple monitor setups, 3d setps, moving cockpits, force feedback for you dinosaurs with 25 year old joysticks...and then some - but the community provides alot too.  There just *might* be good reasons why it hasn't been incorperated officially into the game, and of course I KNOW you all devoted some of your time thinking about that too right?

Someone comes along and says "hey here is something I spent my time developing for your collective benefit so the VR guys have a few more options", and the collective response is "burn the witch and all his/her supporters! 'Cause they'ze all cheatin'!, you can see it in their beady little eyes!"  and other similar tripe, I can't help but be cynical.  We are all playing the same game here.  

I've literally held up a video.  The zoom level achieved is the same as the zoom level achieved in non VR.  It doesn't make shit magically appear any more than it makes planes invisible.  

Dont misunderstand, I get it.  A percieved cheat is a percieved cheat.  But this has been explained.  S-L-O-W-L-Y for the benefit of some.  There will always be some tool that finds a way to fook with his gamma to see in the dark, etc.  We can't really do much about those folks can we?  But really, take some time to learn and understand before making assumptions.

To his credit, if the original thread creator HAS exposed a "hack" here, it will be squashed.  Rest assured.  I have every confidence in that.

Edited May 2, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[E69_geramos109]

1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

What?  NO!  Are you even paying attention?

If it was a cheat it would be banned.  FFS I'm not making this up people.  Nobody wants cheats.  Nobody wants crutches 

From my point of view you are one of those. 

5 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

TRASH. That's what your game world looks like outside of your rendering distance, you donut.  The mod simply allows you to look at that "trash".  It doesn't "ignore" anything, it just shows you what is there.

 

Yes. the mod is doing that and the people without mod is not able to see the terrain as trash because the game is procesing the image to evade that. Migoto does not and this is a clear advantage spoting contacts for 2D users and VR as well

[Tycoon]

1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

 

I've literally held up a video.  The zoom level achieved is the same as the zoom level achieved in non VR.  

 

Just to clarify you mean  " the zoom level achieved in  VR with this mod is the same as non VR using the same mod" correct?

13 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

From my point of view you are one of those. 

Yes. the mod is doing that and the people without mod is not able to see the terrain as trash because the game is procesing the image to evade that. Migoto does not and this is a clear advantage spoting contacts for 2D users and VR as well

But the advantage of this mod for spotting is zoom, this mod doesn't change or remove ground textures.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tycoon

[E69_geramos109]

25 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

Just to clarify you mean  " the zoom level achieved in  VR with this mod is the same as non VR using the same mod" correct?

But the advantage of this mod for spotting is zoom, this mod doesn't change or remove ground textures.

This mod is not changing ground textures (I think) But the game zoom is changing that. When you zoom with the game mode the terrain texture is reescaling to render with better definition this part you are zooming. Migoto is Ignoring that redefinition so you are watching the part you are zooming with the no zoom definition. Is like to zoom a picture but the planes are perfect. You can see the examples on the screenshots I posted here. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/61113-migoto-is-a-cheat-devs-please-ban-this/?do=findComment&comment=930518

 

Not sure about the first question Vr has x10 X5 and X1.5 , the same as 2d mode. You can use this modes on both monitor and Vr. Is that what you were asking for?

Edited May 2, 2020 by E69_geramos109

[Tycoon]

29 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

This mod is not changing ground textures (I think) But the game zoom is changing that. When you zoom with the game mode the terrain texture is reescaling to render with better definition this part you are zooming. Migoto is Ignoring that redefinition so you are saying the part you are zooming like ig you are not. Is like to zoom a picture but the planes are perfect. You can see the examples on the screenshots I posted here. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/61113-migoto-is-a-cheat-devs-please-ban-this/?do=findComment&comment=930518

 

And yes. Vr has x10 X5 and X1.5 , the same as 2d mode. 

Ah yes now I know what you're talking about, I noticed this in my first video when the mod zoom didn't affect the plane lod size when alternate plane visibility was on but the ingame zoom would, I didn't make the connection that this would apply to ground lod as well.

You can see what I'm talking about at the 1:08 mark, the mod zoom is turned on at 10x, and as I zoom out with the ingame zoom the plane appears to grow in size and zooming in it gets smaller.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tycoon

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

If it was a cheat it would be banned. 

But the Mod is designed to evade the Mod Mode setting so it can’t be banned. The fact that there’s likely no way to ban it doesn’t mean it’s not a cheat. 

1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

These are literally the shortcuts that make playing the game possible for those of us with VR setups. 

So you’re saying that in order to play with VR it’s necessary to use “shortcuts” (cheat)?

Edited May 2, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Beazil]

On 5/2/2020 at 5:03 AM, SharpeXB said:

But the Mod is designed to evade the Mod Mode setting so it can’t be banned. The fact that there’s likely no way to ban it doesn’t mean it’s not a cheat. 

So you’re saying that in order to play with VR it’s necessary to use “shortcuts” (cheat)?

You are an idiot.  That much is clear.

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

First offense - 3 days ban on entry

Edited May 7, 2020 by BlackSix

[Tycoon]

This is the  difference between in game zoom and  mod on a 2d screen. 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tycoon

[=RS=Stix_09]

I think the issue is because of VR limitations currently in game , this mod exists.

AND

It can be used by non VR users to give an advantage over other users not using the mod .

 

For this reason the mod is questionable.

 

I do not want anyone to have an advantage or disadvantage (VR or NonVR user regardless).

Currently it appears VR users are disadvantaged if they don't use the mod , and non VR users CAN be disadvantaged if they also do not use the mod

 

This is something the developers should address in game, so we do not need such mods.That  is only way to resolve this problem.

 

If the mod can be used to cheat (and it looks like it can), then it is a problem, and needs the developers to step up and fix it for both VR and non VR user a like

Edited May 2, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[Beazil]

Well, if nothing else, I think we can all agree that we hope this gets addressed.  The conspiracy theory bullshit I could frankly do without.

Edited May 2, 2020 by JG51_Beazil

[Alonzo]

I find it quite funny that people are telling server operators what to do. It's easy to get a server licence and start your own multiplayer server, I encourage anyone who's unhappy with the current set of servers to do so. More choice for players and a bit of competition among server ops is good for the game.

 

Shall we talk about the 180 degree "check six" snap view? I can't do that in VR. It's a cheat when players do that in 2D. It reduces realism and needs to be removed from the game.

 

Disclaimer: I don't actually think snap views should be removed from the game, but it's an equivalent argument.

[Talon_]

3 hours ago, Tycoon said:

Just to clarify you mean  " the zoom level achieved in  VR with this mod is the same as non VR using the same mod" correct?

 

Not correct. In VR due to the way FOV is calculated you cannot zoom as far with the mod as you can on a 2D screen. Also, the default in game zoom is much lower in VR than it is in 2D which is why the mod exists at all.

3 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Yes. the mod is doing that and the people without mod is not able to see the terrain as trash because the game is procesing the image to evade that. Migoto does not and this is a clear advantage spoting contacts for 2D users and VR as well

 

Just turn your graphics to low ?

4 hours ago, JG51_Beazil said:

But really, take some time to learn and understand before making assumptions.

 

We're on the same side. Read literally any of my posts in this thread.

[=RS=Stix_09]

7 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Not correct. In VR due to the way FOV is calculated you cannot zoom as far with the mod as you can on a 2D screen. Also, the default in game zoom is much lower in VR than it is in 2D which is why the mod exists at all.

 

And that is the problem with mods, abuse, and disparity , creates problems in multiplayer.

Bottom line only developer can resolve this for both VR and non VR user a like, so we all have  some basic fairness in online play, We all want to encourage online play, not detract from the  experience and put people off with mods that can be abused online.

 

Any non VR user using this mod is cheating.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[Talon_]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

So you’re saying that in order to play with VR it’s necessary to use “shortcuts” (cheat)?

 

You must also think that somebody using Thrustmaster TARGET or equivalent to program their controls is a cheat as it uses out of game software to modify the gameplay experience.

[Beazil]

4 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Not correct. In VR due to the way FOV is calculated you cannot zoom as far with the mod as you can on a 2D screen. Also, the default in game zoom is much lower in VR than it is in 2D which is why the mod exists at all.

 

Just turn your graphics to low ?

 

We're on the same side. Read literally any of my posts in this thread.

Funny thing is, I think we all want the same thing; parity.  At least as best they can give us.  The mod helps to achieve this.

[Talon_]

1 minute ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

disparity

 

The only disparity is if you install the mod in 2D you get an incredibly shaky and unusable super-zoom that basically only works during auto level

[Beazil]

I'd also like to point out the mod has an official thread here.  On the Official forums. 

 

Now where'd I put that invisible skin?

 

Use your brains.  

[JG1_Vonrd]

Considering the vitriol and controversy in this thread perhaps it should be titled the My God! To Mod.

Aren't there enough problems in our worlds at the moment?

Sheesh...

 

OTOH... I do find a perverse pleasure in reading all this shit... More Popcorn!

Edited May 2, 2020 by JG1_VVS_Vonrd

[Tycoon]

22 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

The only disparity is if you install the mod in 2D you get an incredibly shaky and unusable super-zoom that basically only works during auto level

No it's easy to use I'm using it here.

 

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

41 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

The only disparity is if you install the mod in 2D you get an incredibly shaky and unusable super-zoom that basically only works during auto level

 

Can you  toggle mod off and on? Per feature? Is it not going to depend on how its setup, mod is quite configurable. I did not see that in OP's video of zoom working.

The mod can be abused , that's why I stopped use after trying it. Its great for VR guys, and I see why they need it.
 

Edited May 2, 2020 by =RS=Stix_09

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

You must also think that somebody using Thrustmaster TARGET or equivalent to program their controls is a cheat as it uses out of game software to modify the gameplay experience.

Hardly on the same level as this. You guys are really reaching to try and justify the use of this thing...

[Talon_]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

Hardly on the same level as this. You guys are really reaching to try and justify the use of this thing...

 

This thing that restores parity in zoom between two display types. I don't even use it myself as noted earlier in the thread because I personally don't need super-zoom to ID.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

I find it quite funny that people are telling server operators what to do.

Who’s telling who? A server owner currently has no control over this. 

3 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

This thing that restores parity in zoom between two display types. I don't even use it myself as noted earlier in the thread because I personally don't need super-zoom to ID.

It doesn’t create parity between two users of the same display type though. In that situation it’s an unfair advantage.

so if you aren’t using it in VR then another VR player using it has an advantage over you. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Talon_]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Who’s telling who? A server owner currently has no control over this. 

 

You're responding to another admin of the most popular server ? Alonzo and I, among others, created Combat Box. We're both in VR, as is the rest of the admin team, and will not be disabling 3Dmigoto even if we had the choice.

 

Edit: for somebody so obsessed with fairness in multiplayer @SharpeXB I find it interesting that you've only logged a total of two flight hours between our server and WoL since September 2019.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Talon_

[Beazil]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Hardly on the same level as this. You guys are really reaching to try and justify the use of this thing...

Did you bang your head on something as a child or are you just trolling now?

[Talon_]

14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It doesn’t create parity between two users of the same display type though. In that situation it’s an unfair advantage.

so if you aren’t using it in VR then another VR player using it has an advantage over you. 

 

A bunch of my friends use it (hence my sticking up for it in this thread) but I still out-spot them constantly. Turns out spotting skill isn't determined by zoom factor but by experience and visual acuity ?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Some information on what will happen:

 

It seems that the zoom mod will not be made to work for monitors after the next patch.

 

Everyone will be forced to upgrade the mod, as the Devs have stated in the devblog that they will switch to deferred rendering. That disables the mod entirely, and any old version of it too.

 

It will only remain for VR users then. 

 

So, both sides won.

 

 

Now you guys can get a tea (Sharpe a pint of oil) and stop the discussion.

[ITAF_Cymao]

It is surreal to see people who used the trakir complain now that by turning their heads slightly you can see at 6 o'clock. Why didn't you say it while you used the trackir?
The trackir is a hardware that uses software, the mod is a software that you can use without hardware (if I uderstood good), the trackir does not change anything while this mod seems to do it instead.
If there are problems with VR, it is up to the developers to fix it and I understand that there is little hope in this regard and try to solve it yourself.
Now I understand why I was intercepted in an area of the map far from the front and far from the targets and far from any hypothetical interception route while taking altitude ...

However I'd like to understand from those who defend this mod if it can be hypothetically used to have an advantage over the player who does not use it? Yes or no?

 

Thx and sorry for my bad English
 

Edited May 2, 2020 by ITAF_Cymao

[Beazil]

See what happens when you argue on teh internetz?  Everyone's a winner baby!

59 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Some information on what will happen:

 

It seems that the zoom mod will not be made to work for monitors after the next patch.

 

Everyone will be forced to upgrade the mod, as the Devs have stated in the devblog that they will switch to deferred rendering. That disables the mod entirely, and any old version of it too.

 

It will only remain for VR users then. 

 

So, both sides won.

 

 

Now you guys can get a tea (Sharpe a pint of oil) and stop the discussion.

 

[SIA_Sp00k]

This is why we cant have nice things

[ITAF_Rani]

2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Some information on what will happen:

 

It seems that the zoom mod will not be made to work for monitors after the next patch.

 

Everyone will be forced to upgrade the mod, as the Devs have stated in the devblog that they will switch to deferred rendering. That disables the mod entirely, and any old version of it too.

 

It will only remain for VR users then. 

 

So, both sides won.

 

 

Now you guys can get a tea (Sharpe a pint of oil) and stop the discussion.

Hey Wolf, Jason has talked with you about that ?

Do you have hot informations?

[[DBS]Browning]

6 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Hey Wolf, Jason has talked with you about that ?

Do you have hot informations?

 

The mod tends to break after any graphical changes to the game are made. He's making safe assumptions based on what the mod's creator has said. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

No, I don't make assumptions. That's actually the course. 

 

 

P.S. Not speaking for the game devs by the way. They are buzzingly busy these days, modernizing the engine to deferred rendering is a giant task, it is not trivial. There is a lot of under the hood work they are doing for it. And by the way, Victory Day 9th of May is coming up soon as well. So whether they respond to it or not, we won't know. They are already busy enough.

Edited May 2, 2020 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SCG_OpticFlow]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Some information on what will happen:

 

It seems that the zoom mod will not be made to work for monitors after the next patch.

 

Everyone will be forced to upgrade the mod, as the Devs have stated in the devblog that they will switch to deferred rendering. That disables the mod entirely, and any old version of it too.

 

It will only remain for VR users then. 

 

So, both sides won.

 

 

Now you guys can get a tea (Sharpe a pint of oil) and stop the discussion.

 

@c6_lefuneste Is that what you would do?

[[DBS]Browning]

39 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

No, I don't make assumptions. That's actually the course.

 

OK, then what is your source?

[E69_McKinley]

I only want to spot something with my 1080 tv monitor. In il21946 always could spot without problems. With the hsfx zoom mod u can id better, but the contact u saw with normal zoom. Here i cant saw anything more than 4-5 km. 

I enter in berloga server, and when zoom the contact disapear, or made It smaller, something its wrong, and no devs solutions. I install migoto mod and now i can see contacts. This thing doesnt makes me a killer, but i have similar visión problems like vr users. Something its wrong in render planes, and distances.

Ill played il2 1946 for 8 years, and clffs of Dover for 2-3 years, never have spot problems like un this Game, but here im because i love WW2 planes sims, and here its the comunity...

But migoto have too much zoom in my opinion...for 2d an vr users. Stop crying, spoting contacts its no ok in oficial version, and devs has to made an oficial solution...

Edited May 2, 2020 by E69_McKinley