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E69_geramos109

Migoto Is a Cheat. Devs please Ban this!

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A lot of people with VR told me how they were able to see contacts on their base just after take off from more than 50km away. After a lot of talking and a lot of weird experiences about being intercepted I decided to see that by myself. 

Some VR users will complain afraid to lose their advantage over the rest but is funny to see them complaining about how bad they see in Vr while they tell how much enemies are taking off from whatever base to text to the side all info after that.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It's from 10x zoom ? 

BTW did you test is in VR personally ?

 

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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I think that, at least, servers admins should be able to decide whether they want to allow this Mod on the servers or not.

 

It is my understanding that right now it can be used on servers that do not allow modd, right?

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Lets ban VR, track IR (too easy to check 6 ) and mouse view, (moves unrealistically quick)  they are all cheats , and only have hat switches for everyone, like in the early 1990s.

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1 minute ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Lets ban VR, track IR (too easy to check 6 ) and mouse view, (moves unrealistically quick)  they are all cheats , and only have hat switches for everyone, like in the early 1990s.

 

Cmon bruh that's comparing apples to oranges. This is a quite ridiculous zoom level that I had no idea was possible until visiting this thread. You really deadass think this is legit?

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3 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Lets ban VR, track IR (too easy to check 6 ) and mouse view, (moves unrealistically quick)  they are all cheats , and only have hat switches for everyone, like in the early 1990s.

Cone on... You know better... Sometimes the lines that divides a tool (to adapt out compensate RL to computer screen) is a little bit blurry.

 

But zoom with autofocus at 50km... 

 

I think no mod should be banned, but at least the server admins should be able to force this one off.

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I think TrackIr should be banned from servers NOW!!!  It is a cheat and allows a totally unrealistic 360 view of the world. It allows people to see contacts directly behind them merely by turning their heads a couple of inches.

 

Ban TrackIr NOW and lets ban people with Hotas set ups and widescreens and.....pedals.  Yes, pedals are a cheat too.  Infact I think we should all only be playing with a Mouse and thats it.

 

You know it makes sense. 

 

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Are people really ok with that level of zoom? WTF


Can't tell if people in this thread are trying to be fun or just delusional.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, E69_Chipi said:

Cone on... You know better... Sometimes the lines that divides a tool (to adapt out compensate RL to computer screen) is a little bit blurry.

 

But zoom with autofocus at 50km... 

 

I think no mod should be banned, but at least the server admins should be able to force this one off.

You are saying this because you have never played this sim with a HMD, having felt this experience you would have understood the original purpose of it, because in VR without it you can't see shit, maybe we could do an exception with the recent HMDs HP reverb, Oculus Rift S , Pimax 5K and so on. 

 

Asking for removing the mod makes no sense for me as you are destroying the only way multiple users are able to see in this sim. 

 

For me the video of geramos is misleading because I am unable to see as good as you see in a 2d screen and I don't have that definition, the max I am able to see are 20 km more or less.

 

What I would do is to limit again the max of kilometers the game is rendering, just don't kill VR

Edited by E69_Qpassa_VR
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Posted (edited)

First, the mod's zoom function is not restricted to VR, just mainly utilized by VR users. Anyone can use it.

 

Second, the in-game zoom in VR is useless. 2D players get an in-game 5x zoom, while VR is 1.5x. It is nearly impossible to be competitive in MP without this mod.

 

Lastly, you can only see allied planes that far away, because of their DayGlo paint jobs. This is an axis bias issue, not a mod issue.

Edited by 69th_Bazzer
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If non-VR users could spot aircraft at realistic ranges then I don't think this would even be an issue. It's more indicative of our frustrations with not being able to see targets we really should be able to see.

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1 minute ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

You are saying this because you have never played this sim with a HMD, having felt this experience you would have understood the original purpose of it, because in VR without it you can't see shit, maybe we could do an exception with the recent HMDs HP reverb, Oculus Rift S , Pimax 5K and so on. 

 

Asking for removing the mod makes no sense for me as you are destroying the only way multiple users are able to see in this sim. 

 

For me the video of geramos is misleading because I am unable to see as good as you see in a 2d screen and I don't have that definition, the max I am able to see are 20 km more or less 

Fact:

Players with 2D screens are using this mod.

 

Fact:

I never asked for the mod to be removed. I just said that the server admins should have the tools to prevent this mod from being used. As far as I know, right know this mod can be used even with the mods off option.

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6 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

You are saying this because you have never played this sim with a HMD, having felt this experience you would have understood the original purpose of it, because in VR without it you can't see shit, maybe we could do an exception with the recent HMDs HP reverb, Oculus Rift S , Pimax 5K and so on. 

 

Asking for removing the mod makes no sense for me as you are destroying the only way multiple users are able to see in this sim. 

 

For me the video of geramos is misleading because I am unable to see as good as you see in a 2d screen and I don't have that definition, the max I am able to see are 20 km more or less.

 

What I would do is to limit again the max of kilometers the game is rendering, just don't kill VR

Maybe you should take the time to make a video of how it works with those of use without VR. Although it doesn't seem unreasonable for it to be tweaked so the zoom is not so great and that 2D players are not able/allowed to use it.


Really it sounds like the devs need come up with a better solution for VR so we dont use mods.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Retrofly said:

Are people really ok with that level of zoom? WTF


Can't tell if people in this thread are trying to be fun or just delusional.

 

34 minutes ago, ACG_Onebad said:

 

Cmon bruh that's comparing apples to oranges. This is a quite ridiculous zoom level that I had no idea was possible until visiting this thread. You really deadass think this is legit?

 

41 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

It's from 10x zoom ? 

BTW did you test is in VR personally ?

 

 

It's worth remembering that the mod exists due to FOV Reduction being used for zoom.

 

This works quite differently between narrow-FOV monitors and wide-FOV HMDs. 3DMigoto zoom in HMD and normal in-game zoom on monitors appear roughly comparable magnification to the human eye - this means that running the 3DMigoto mod on a monitor will show an effect much greater than the one percieved in VR.

 

Conclusion: VR users do not have the amount of zoom displayed by the video in the OP.

 

EDIT It seems I need to say it again. You cannot compare zoom levels between a monitor and HMD as they operate on different principles. In-game zoom is 4x on a monitor but only 1.5x in VR - the video in the OP is misleading because that same reduction factor applies in-HMD to the huge zoom seen on a monitor.

Edited by Talon_
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And I was wondering how some players were calling out departures from enemy airfields while never being intercepted, now I know.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

You are saying this because you have never played this sim with a HMD, having felt this experience you would have understood the original purpose of it, because in VR without it you can't see shit, maybe we could do an exception with the recent HMDs HP reverb, Oculus Rift S , Pimax 5K and so on.

 

 I don`t doubt of the original good intentions of the mod developers, but it is clear to ma that it has become an expliot.

 

21 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

For me the video of geramos is misleading because I am unable to see as good as you see in a 2d screen and I don't have that definition, the max I am able to see are 20 km more or less.

 

20KM??? believe me, to be able to spot an airplane this size at 20km (around 11NM) is very, very difficult. Sometimes under ideal conditions (clear day, looking against a very uniform white cloud layer, etc) it is possible. But to spot an airplane against the ground at 11NM is almost a miracle.

 

5 minutes ago, Birdman said:

And I was wondering how some players were calling out departures from enemy airfields while never being intercepted, now I know.


now you know. Its either that and/or chat spying.

Edited by E69_Chipi

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7 minutes ago, E69_Chipi said:

 I don`t doubt of the original good intentions of the mod developers, but it is clear to ma that it has become an expliot.

 

 

It does not work as displayed in the OP when used by VR pilots - it only zooms in this much on a monitor.

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Posted (edited)

LooL..thread will be locked in less than 20 minutes. 😁

vg_7766.jpg

Edited by Semor76
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, E69_Qpassa_VR said:

You are saying this because you have never played this sim with a HMD, having felt this experience you would have understood the original purpose of it, because in VR without it you can't see shit, maybe we could do an exception with the recent HMDs HP reverb, Oculus Rift S , Pimax 5K and so on. 

 

Asking for removing the mod makes no sense for me as you are destroying the only way multiple users are able to see in this sim. 

 

For me the video of geramos is misleading because I am unable to see as good as you see in a 2d screen and I don't have that definition, the max I am able to see are 20 km more or less.

 

What I would do is to limit again the max of kilometers the game is rendering, just don't kill VR

I guess you need as well to remove the prop because you see so bad.

On your answer you are admiting that therea are Vr Glasses that can be as good as a monitor like Hp etc. Then a small group of people will have a cracy advantage over the rest. VR needs to improve the technology for users to be playable and not on the other side make cheats on game for Vr players. 

You are talking here defending the mod and you were one of the people who better spots when you play with us. You are allways telling us where people are, etc and then you dare to complain about consecuences if you have the mod removed. XD

 

Edited by E69_geramos109
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13 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

 

 

It's worth remembering that the mod exists due to FOV Reduction being used for zoom.

 

This works quite differently between narrow-FOV monitors and wide-FOV HMDs. 3DMigoto zoom in HMD and normal in-game zoom on monitors appear roughly comparable magnification to the human eye - this means that running the 3DMigoto mod on a monitor will show an effect much greater than the one percieved in VR.

 

Conclusion: VR users do not have the amount of zoom displayed by the video in the OP.

 

EDIT It seems I need to say it again. You cannot compare zoom levels between a monitor and HMD as they operate on different principles. In-game zoom is 4x on a monitor but only 1.5x in VR - the video in the OP is misleading because that same reduction factor applies in-HMD to the huge zoom seen on a monitor.

Not all futures works in 2d and vr mode in 3dMigoto , does zoom ?

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2 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Then a small group of people will have a cracy advantage over the rest.

 

Imagine a world where people owned different levels of gear to play flight sims. I'm just glad we're all required by the Devs to fly with Logitech Attack Wingman 2s!

 

My homebuilt cockpit - F-16 Simulators

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16 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

 

 

It's worth remembering that the mod exists due to FOV Reduction being used for zoom.

 

This works quite differently between narrow-FOV monitors and wide-FOV HMDs. 3DMigoto zoom in HMD and normal in-game zoom on monitors appear roughly comparable magnification to the human eye - this means that running the 3DMigoto mod on a monitor will show an effect much greater than the one percieved in VR.

 

Conclusion: VR users do not have the amount of zoom displayed by the video in the OP.

 

EDIT It seems I need to say it again. You cannot compare zoom levels between a monitor and HMD as they operate on different principles.

My Squad mate Hans Luch is playing with VR and this mod and he is able to see from 50km!!! planes taking of. Is just ridiculous. How can you say is not that good in Vr? Then why is he with Vr able to see like that. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Not all futures works in 2d and vr mode in 3dMigoto , does zoom ?

 

The zoom works in 2D so I'm not sure why the OP thinks it's unfair when he can (as seen in his video) install the mod himself and no longer be at a "disadvantage".

 

In fact due to the way monitors work, the zoom works about 5x better in 2D than it does in VR.

 

 

3 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

My Squad mate Hans Luch is playing with VR and this mod and he is able to see from 50km!!! planes taking of. Is just ridiculous. How can you say is not that good in Vr? Then why is he with Vr able to see like that. 

 

I think this claim needs verification with known distances. Our experience of running Combat Box is that data isn't even transmitted by the server to clients that far away.

Edited by Talon_
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1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

The zoom works in 2D so I'm not sure why the OP thinks it's unfair when he can (as seen in his video) install the mod himself and no longer be at a "disadvantage".

 

In fact due to the way monitors work, the zoom works about 5x better in 2D than it does in VR.

 

I think this claim needs verification with known distances. Our experience of running Combat Box is that data isn't even transmitted by the server to clients that far away.

Tested on TAW and WINGS. 

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23 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

EDIT It seems I need to say it again. You cannot compare zoom levels between a monitor and HMD as they operate on different principles. In-game zoom is 4x on a monitor but only 1.5x in VR - the video in the OP is misleading because that same reduction factor applies in-HMD to the huge zoom seen on a monitor.

yes but people on none HMD's can use it so it needs to be changed fixed so that can't happen.

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I'm on an Oddysey+ (which has a rather poor pixels per degree - something like 15 vs a monitor's 60) and honestly I can spot contacts 50km out very easily - but I don't even use the zoom for that. It's simply because contacts really far out don't render their skins, they appear as shiny flickery white dots for me.

 

The thing is, once I get closer I lose the contacts. It's very difficult for me to see things between 2 and 5km. This is just a weird quirk of the current spotting system, which the devs said they're looking into.

 

By the way, the HP Reverb or the Pimax headsets are nowhere near as clear as a monitor. They have around 20 pixels per degree - where a monitor typically has around 60 - and even higher for a 1440p or 4k screen.

 

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2 minutes ago, Retrofly said:

yes but people on none HMD's can use it so it needs to be changed fixed so that can't happen.

 

While I agree it's shocking to look at in a video with a plane flying along on autolevel, just nudging the stick slightly at that level of zoom is going to make sure you can't see a thing as the camera pans to a target 500m in another direction!

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Just now, Talon_ said:

 

While I agree it's shocking to look at in a video with a plane flying along on autolevel, just nudging the stick slightly at that level of zoom is going to make sure you can't see a thing as the camera pans to a target 500m in another direction!

Well 2 fixes for that would be put put the plane in auto level and put TrackIR into the slow mode, pretty simple. The devs need to some up with a proper fix that works for VR players without giving people telescope eyes.

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After rewatching the OP I also note that he is using both zoom binds at once (ingame AND mod), which also doesn't work in VR unless you're looking for a quick way to make yourself throw up! 😄 

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Posted (edited)

 

是! 我建議不能放大所有尺寸!人眼沒有變焦功能!

Including the 2D screen also does not allow the use of zoom

Edited by =GW=a7610783

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2 minutes ago, =GW=a7610783 said:

 

Yes! I suggest that all sizes can not be zoomed! Human eyes and this have no zoom function!

 

Now how do you solve the issue that people with 40" TVs get an advantage by seeing everything 4x bigger than those on 19" monitors? ;) 

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I wouldn't play in VR without this mod honestly. Even with it, ID'ing the pixels is difficult.

 

Do I see dots from 20km out sometimes? Yep. Am I identifying friend from foe sooner than if I play with trackIR on a normal monitor? Nope, not even close.

 

 

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Without Migoto, VR play on anything but the very best hardware with the newer sets (like the Reverb) would be basically not be viable. Spotting and IDing would be massively less viable than without VR.

 

Quite frankly, VR right now, EXCEPT perhaps with the best hardware, is a handicap. It's purely an immersion tool to make the experience more enjoyable and awesome... but it won't make a pilot better. Gunnery is marginally better, perhaps, because of depth perception, but beyond that you are far less effective at most things (spotting, checking your six, IDing, and so on). And that's including with the migoto mod, without which VR play would be far more handicapped.

 

While we're at it though, let's ban swivel chairs. I should be forced to strain my neck, and wear silk scarves, whenever I fly in VR. :)

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He's got a point. I initially wanted to get my torch and pitchfork and drive the monster out of the castle who would suggest that using VR is an unfair advantage, but you *can* use this mod as a hack as demonstrated by the use here on a monitor.

Should it be 'banned' (I don't think it can be currently banned as such)? I know the vast majority of people who use it don't see it as a cheat, rather than just letting them do in VR what they can already do in monitor mode.

Plus those distant contacts can be seen without the mod anyway, go 50km away from any AF online almost as well as with the mod.

 

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14 minutes ago, Retrofly said:

yes but people on none HMD's can use it so it needs to be changed fixed so that can't happen.

then please, do implement the change you want, don´t only whine about it.

Create a way for VR users to zoom on a similar level as people on monitors.

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2 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

PS I use VR and don't even use this mod.

 

 

Same but lots of my VR buddies need it to have a chance of IDing - one in particular who suffered a botched LASIK operation.

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