Vulkan

[BlackArabian]

Obviously being done already but I can't find the discussion. 

When is Vulkan coming to IL 2.

I see great improvements in X plane an DCS World using Vulkan.

When are we likely to enjoy such spoils, especially for VR, in Sturmovik????

[LuftManu]

DS is on the way which will likely improve things both in the visuals and performance.

[SharpeXB]

Has 1CGS ever said Vulkan is being considered? I don’t believe so. 

[DD_fruitbat]

39 minutes ago, BlackArabian said:

 

I see great improvements in X plane an DCS World using Vulkan.

 

Impressive, can i borrow your time machine?

[SJ_Butcher]

Vulkan would be a great approach, since the Miscrosoft api dx is only running on microsoft and Vulkan is multi platform equally capabale, but with vulkan or dx12 you can mess the things really badly if you dont pay attention to every single aspect of your code.

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, BlackArabian said:

Obviously being done already but I can't find the discussion. 

When is Vulkan coming to IL 2.

I see great improvements in X plane an DCS World using Vulkan.

When are we likely to enjoy such spoils, especially for VR, in Sturmovik????

 

X-Plane is seeing some big improvements because their engine and OpenGL behind it are so old that modern hardware isn't being fully utilized. Years of effort to bring Vulkan (and Metal) to that sim are having some pretty impressive gains. My system which can usually do IL-2 at a constant 60fps can sometimes barely squeak out 20-30fps on X-Plane. I'm waiting on Vulkan update until 11.50 is in the public rather than beta release but I'm betting it's going to be quite a bit better when I do.

 

DCS World is using DX11 and is on a long term road towards that Vulkan but I wouldn't expect it for a couple of years still. 2.5.6 open beta is a performance mess and so I've no idea how you're seeing any improvements there.

 

IL-2 moved from DX9 to DX11 a few years ago and this was apparently a major undertaking. With a lot of players able to get steady and solid frame rates in VR and most people reporting that IL-2 is probably the smoothest sim they have in VR... I can see 1CGS holding off on any upgrades for quite a while yet. It's a huge undertaking and likely an expensive one too. I'd guess that the more likely move for the series long term could be to DX12 but hard to know when that might happen. Microsoft's new Flight Simulator is being programmed in DX11 (and not 12) so make of that what you will.

Edited April 25, 2020 by ShamrockOneFive

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

So far have tested one game using Vulkan: Doom Eternal. I can crank everything to maximum and have never experienced any stutters, slow downs or anything else, with the screen filled with action. If that is of any indication how a game on Vulkan runs, then DCS will get substantial performance gains. 

 

DS and whatever devs will do to IL-2, should help. Every ounce of performance is needed. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by LLv34_Flanker

[blitze]

Combined great performance and cross platform compatibility, Vulcan would be a great way forward for the Il2 Great Battles Series.

 

Using DirectX 12 Ultimate might help performance over DX11 but it ties the product to Windows which is not good for customer choice.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, blitze said:

Combined great performance and cross platform compatibility, Vulcan would be a great way forward for the Il2 Great Battles Series.

 

Using DirectX 12 Ultimate might help performance over DX11 but it ties the product to Windows which is not good for customer choice.

Cross platform? “ties the product to Windows which is not good for customer choice”

You do realize that 96% of gamers use Windows, right? So why would supporting another OS have any benefit? Any cost involved would just be a waste of resources. 

[blitze]

20 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Cross platform? “ties the product to Windows which is not good for customer choice”

You do realize that 96% of gamers use Windows, right? So why would supporting another OS have any benefit? Any cost involved would just be a waste of resources. 

Hmm, opens the door to OS-X, Linux, still Windows and then there is Play Station.

 

Only reason 96% gamers are on Windows is because there isn't choice.?

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, blitze said:

Only reason 96% gamers are on Windows is because there isn't choice.?

Whatever the reason it’s still 96% so spending any money or time chasing 4% of a market is big waste. 
An iMac is also a terrible choice in hardware for gaming, the all-in-one form factor isn’t easily upgradable and they’re more expensive. And a chassis style rig like you need for easy upgrading, would be a MAC Pro which starts at $6,000 ?

Linux is a whopping .87% so it’s an even bigger waste of time than OSX

Edited April 27, 2020 by SharpeXB

[blitze]

And yet people still do game on Linux and with support from the likes of Valve - it will be a growing market.

 

It is nice to have alternatives / options especially Open Sourced ones in the midst of Economic and social tumult.  Given Microsoft has retarded desktop computing by a decade or more, alternatives and multi platform (open) API's are something to embrace.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, blitze said:

And yet people still do game on Linux and with support from the likes of Valve - it will be a growing market.

Right, exactly .87% of them

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

And it’s not a growing market, that % hasn’t budged in years. 

1 hour ago, blitze said:

 

It is nice to have alternatives / options especially Open Sourced ones in the midst of Economic and social tumult. 

96% of players don’t need this option. And a waste of the Devs resources is an especially bad idea “in the midst of Economic and social tumult.”

It shouldn’t be the goal of a game developer to lead some lost cause anti-Windows crusade. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by SharpeXB

[SCG_OpticFlow]

3 hours ago, blitze said:

And yet people still do game on Linux and with support from the likes of Valve - it will be a growing market.

 

It is nice to have alternatives / options especially Open Sourced ones in the midst of Economic and social tumult.  Given Microsoft has retarded desktop computing by a decade or more, alternatives and multi platform (open) API's are something to embrace.

 

Playstation 4 runs on freeBSD with a mix of open source and proprietary components https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software

[blitze]

Well X-Plane and DCS are implementing Vulcan API Support and titles on Windows that I have used that supported Vulcan ran very well.  What ever.  Not just about the platform.  DX12 implementations though have been not as consistent or good across the board by comparison.

 

Not to worry, we stick with DX11 and await those new 10Ghz CPU's next year.........

[Virus*]

Xplane with vulkan is really a big improvement...before the vulkan beta i was not able to use in vr...now is one of the most performing sims.

anyway il2 is already a great performing sim, but i am sure the devs will plan for an engine update when there will be an opportunity.

 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

Does the rendering API have much to do with how many cores of my CPU IL-2 uses? Because less then 50% of my CPU is being utilized and I'm CPU bound in most scenarios..

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

I am still waiting for a game or a sim that really is programmed from ground up to utilize multithreading and multiple cores rather than relying solely on high GHz single core performance. In that scenario AMD would suddenly be a viable option as now it blows Intel out of the water when talking about multithreaded workloads. Icing on the cake would be use of Vulkan API. 

 

But then I woke up...?

Edited April 28, 2020 by LLv34_Flanker

[blitze]

@LLv34_Flanker Did Santa bring you a Threadripper 64 core cpu or was that part of your dream too??

 

Wait until GPU's go Chiplet Design too - not far away.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

@blitze I wish ? And some 256Gb of DDR5, RDNA3 GPU + True 8K VR goggles. 

[Gomoto]

Vulkan rocks!!!!! I just reinstalled the Xplane Open Beta. What an improvement.

[Jaws2002]

On 4/28/2020 at 5:37 PM, blitze said:

Wait until GPU's go Chiplet Design too - not far away.

 

 

 GPUs already use more cores than CPUs and the GPU related workloads are very well optimized to run in parallel. 

The gaming software designed to run on CPU is maybe ten years behind the GPU, when it comes to multithreading.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Game programming is lagging behind. Why learn something new when old ways are so familiar? Maybe one day things change, but I doubt living that long to see it or being capable of playing anymore

[VR-DriftaholiC]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:16 AM, BlackArabian said:

Obviously being done already but I can't find the discussion. 

When is Vulkan coming to IL 2.

I see great improvements in X plane an DCS World using Vulkan.

When are we likely to enjoy such spoils, especially for VR, in Sturmovik????

 

Check this out: 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Very interesting mod, will test it today and see how it works. 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

2 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

Very interesting mod, will test it today and see how it works. 

 

Very interested as we have similar machines. I'm just hooked on that 3dmigoto zoom for VR now ?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

@driftaholic Not using VR yet. Maybe in a year or two. Would be great if BoX could go full Vulkan. 

[VR-DriftaholiC]

11 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

@driftaholic Not using VR yet. Maybe in a year or two. Would be great if BoX could go full Vulkan. 

 

Still might it alleviate some CPU bottle necking? This is what I'm hoping for. Even better 1% lows would be amazing. Try a Reverb, your system is more then capable!

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

@driftaholic Got spoiled by the Varjo VR VR is very immersing, but at the moment not there yet. Not much missing, but enough for me to stick with normal screen. Shall see when new CPU/GPU come out later this year or next year. Things might have changed. 

[ryankm]

I support this 100%.  I have been playing this game since 2006 and haven't had a good enough computer to run the new one until recently.  I mainly use Linux.  So the added cross platform support Vulkan brings would be great.  I got a chance to play the game a little last Feb.  When I had Windows 10 installed and liked how you could just spawn a tank anywhere on these beautiful maps or aircraft.

 

On 4/27/2020 at 11:41 PM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Does the rendering API have much to do with how many cores of my CPU IL-2 uses? Because less then 50% of my CPU is being utilized and I'm CPU bound in most scenarios..

 

As far as multi threading goes....  Just becasue your CPU is not bottlenecked doesn't mean it won't help.  Think of it has thousands of tiny little bottlenecks that don't get measured.  When you enter a command it is nice to have a thread and processing availible.  So it helps and generaly makes doing things a little easier.   Having CPU headroom is great.  I have a Ryzen 5950x and rarely is evan one thread at 100 percent when using Vulkan.

 

 

This is the reality of Vulkan.

On 5/11/2020 at 5:48 AM, VR-DriftaholiC said:

Even better 1% lows would be amazing

 

With War Thunder Vulkan app running in background French Jaguar A sitting on runway in test mission.

 

08/29/2021 21:57:05 UTC-04:00     Elapsed: 5s     fedora     0.2.0     replay                                                                                                         │
└──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│CPU            Usage    0.61%                User     0.46%                System   0.11%                                                                                             │
│Mem            Total    31.2 GB              Free     24.1 GB              Anon     2.6 GB               File     3.5 GB                                                              │
│VM             Page In  0.0 B/s              Page Out 131.2 KB/s           Swap In  0.0 B/s              Swap Out 0.0 B/s                                                             │
│I/O   (Rd|Wr)  sda      0.0 B/s   |0.0 B/s   zram0    0.0 B/s   |0.0 B/s                                                                                                              │
│Iface (Rx|Tx)  enp5s0   60 B      |0.0 B     lo       0.0 B     |0.0 B     virbr0   0.0 B     |0.0 B     wlp4s0   0.0 B     |0.0 B                                                    │
└────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Name                                               CPU        Memory     CPU Pressure   Mem Pressure   I/O Pressure   Reads      Writes     RW Total                                  │
│──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────│
                                ▒│
│            └─ app-org.gnome.Terminal.slice        14.82%     3.2 GB     0.00%          0.00%          0.00%          ?          ?          ?                                        ▒│

 

Monitor while I take off and attack the MIG 15...

 

Did it twice.  Different app

 

 

This says the Vulkan app is using .17% of CPU in background.

 

The I take off and shoot Mig 15 with RADAR guided missile

 

It doesn't go over 4.33%

 

Think about it more cores = more nodes.  I don't have the exact lingo.  More nodes to bombard electrons with that will be healthier with less work.

Edited September 9, 2021 by ryankm