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=[TIA]=I-Fly-Central

Kollsman Window

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This is simply a request for the ability to be able to manually adjust the Kollsman window on altimeters in the sim, and for barometric pressure to be displayed for any given field on a map depending on weather conditions. 

Not sure what it would take to accomplish this, but it would be a nice feature.

 

For anyone not familiar with the Kollsman window; see the picture below. In this case the barometric pressure is displayed in inches of mercury. By having this window adjusted properly; you will know your altitude in terms of mean sea level (MSL).

 

Image result for kollsman window

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Posted (edited)

It's done by two key combos, one to set it for local QNH, other for QFE for the reference airbase.

 

Alt-A and another one I don't recall right now...

Edited by jcomm-il2

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Posted (edited)

Can this be set for any given airfield in the air? 

 

I was looking for this kind of functionality, but could not find it.

Edited by =[TIA]=I-Fly-Central

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Posted (edited)

From the official manual:

 

"Altimeter: you can adjust your altimeter in all aircraft between two different readings: standard atmospheric pressure and home airfield elevation. The former setting shows your altitude above sea level, while the latter will show your altitude above your home airfield. This latter setting is especially helpful when landing your aircraft. To adjust your altimeter’s readout, press the Left Alt + A key combination (Altimeter: reference pressure toggle)."

 

So, nope you can't set it to a specific aerodrome.

Edited by jcomm-il2

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Yeah. This isn't what I am looking for functionality wise. I am more or less interested in being able to adjust for the local Barometric pressure of any given airfield on a map while in the air; as it can change even over a relatively small distance (at least in real life). It would not be a big deal if the sim has a consistent BP across the entire map, but would add to the immersion to be able to adjust it manually.     

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5 minutes ago, jcomm-il2 said:

So, nope you can't set it to a specific aerodrome.

 

Well,  when you change it to airfield alt. you are changing it to 'nearest friendly airfield'.

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14 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Well,  when you change it to airfield alt. you are changing it to 'nearest friendly airfield'.

 

Ah! So, "Fly-Central", this is something I wasn't aware of… It's better than what I thought - you're setting it to the nearest friendly airfield settings.

But, those are, AFAIK, the same across all of the Map since there is a single reference pressure for the whole Map / Mission, I guess...

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4 minutes ago, jcomm-il2 said:

But, those are, AFAIK, the same across all of the Map since there is a single reference pressure for the whole Map / Mission, I guess...

Pretty sure, as the whole weather is the same all over the map. IIRC Devs stated some time ago, it would be too complicated to make different weathers like rain in one part of the map, while the rest of the map is dry. Well, after all it is a Combat Flight Simulator. But, who knows, maybe sometimes it will be implemented.

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20 hours ago, =[TIA]=I-Fly-Central said:

as it can change even over a relatively small distance (at least in real life). It would not be a big deal if the sim has a consistent BP across the entire map, but would add to the immersion to be able to adjust it manually. 

 

But that's ony with fancy gradients going on - the weather in game is fairly stable.

As yogi said, the weather is very basic and won't be able to depict real-world effects (such as venturi effect in a valley or moving front-lines).

 

I can see the benefit for some mission-planning - especially in bad weather. I don't really see the benefit over just pressing "nearest airfield altimeter setting", though.

Immersion-wise, once you're across the fromt, you won't get an accurate altimeter-setting anyway; only the squadron weather-guesser's forecast for the area. Which may be way off...

 

Does anybody know if Sweepstakes or a similar radar-service could relay local altimerter-settings in times of bad weather (e.g. during Battle of the Bulge)?

 

 

Now if we had some kind of icing-simulation - that would be pretty cool, too.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

But that's only with fancy gradients going on - the weather in game is fairly stable.

 

In a career on the winter Rheinland map there can be an incredible pressure gradient over a very short distance. It manifests as the QFE being zero on the runway at Florennes for example, fly up to St Trond, cycle to QNE enroute then back to QFE in the pattern. Upon landing I've had the altimeter read below zero...by 200-400 feet. Summer and Autumn maps don't seem to sufffer with this problem. The Stalingrad winter map is not as prone to such large variations.

 

I've reported this...

 

On the winter Rhineland map where there are very large changes in barometric pressure within a very small distance, QFE (nearest friendly airfield) is knackered. My career is flying from Asch. I flew to Florennes to check the map and the QFE display after landing. These shots are whilst sitting parked at Florennes.

 

645044211_Wintermapstandardaltimetersetting.thumb.jpg.63600b936b0652bcf164659349c4ec66.jpg

 

With nearest friendly airfield selected I would expect to read "Zero" on my altimeter, and standard atmosphere should read below zero since the local setting has a higher barometric pressure.

 

1768046428_Wintermaplocalaltimetersetting.thumb.jpg.ce461223543b4e731e53c79a04649083.jpg

 

On 3/14/2020 at 10:47 AM, jcomm-il2 said:

It's done by two key combos, one to set it for local QNH, other for QFE for the reference airbase.

 

You're half right. QFE for the closest friendly airfield, but the other setting is QNE (29.92 inches, 1013 hPa, standard pressure setting).

 

 

Edited by busdriver
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

In a career on the winter Rheinland map there can be an incredible pressure gradient over a very short distance. It manifests as the QFE being zero on the runway at Florennes for example, fly up to St Trond, cycle to QNE enroute then back to QFE in the pattern. Upon landing I've had the altimeter read below zero...by 200-400 feet. Summer and Autumn maps don't seem to sufffer with this problem. The Stalingrad winter map is not as prone to such large variations.

 

I've reported this...

 

On the winter Rhineland map where there are very large changes in barometric pressure within a very small distance, QFE (nearest friendly airfield) is knackered. My career is flying from Asch. I flew to Florennes to check the map and the QFE display after landing. These shots are whilst sitting parked at Florennes.

...

With nearest friendly airfield selected I would expect to read "Zero" on my altimeter, and standard atmosphere should read below zero since the local setting has a higher barometric pressure.

...

 

The QFE reading hinges on where the nearest airfield object is. An airfield object is placed on the map by the mission builder. One airfield object is required for each MP mission spawn point but airfield objects are optional in SP missions (I assume that includes career missions too). Not every airfield on a SP or MP map is guaranteed to have an airfield object. If there is only one airfield object in the mission, QFE will always be the setting at that object, no matter where you are on the map.

 

By the way, if there are no airfield objects on the map, you cannot select QFE. Your altimeter may read 0 ft or 0m when you spawn, but if you cycle to QNE and back to QFE, it will stay at QNE. 

 

In your career flight from Florennes (273m ASL) to St. Trond (68m ASL), the only airfield object in the mission may be at Florennes. So, when you select QFE upon arrival at St. Trond, you still get the reading for Florennes and you end up 205m below Florennes when you land. 

 

On the other hand, if you fly more than halfway from one friendly MP base to another, you can select QFE and it will be valid for the destination base.

 

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you see something other than what I described.

Edited by JimTM
Changed "At least one airfield object is required for each MP mission spawn point" to "One airfield object is required for each MP mission spawn point"
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@JimTM much obliged for your insight.  :salute: And I certainly know nothing that would dispute anything you wrote. I appreciate having smart friends like you to keep me straight. What I have failed to convey with my claim that QFE (nearest friendly airfield) is knackered is the labeling is misleading and (unless specific conditions you clarified are met) the output is IMO worthless most of the time in SP (unless you are at your home airfield).

 

Fortunately for me, MP content typically has gorgeous 1GCCFP weather. Currently helping our bud @Gambit21 with a night intruder project over the Ardennes, the Meuse River and Rhine River and that's how (or why) I started paying attention to the usefulness of the "nearest friendly airfield" altimeter setting. I was hoping for a QNH setting which is more useful when flying in hilly terrain.

 

Question for you: The minimum cloud height is 500m in the QMB. Is this the minimum in the ME too?

 

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1 hour ago, busdriver said:

Question for you: The minimum cloud height is 500m in the QMB. Is this the minimum in the ME too?

 

 

Nope - you can slam it all the way to the deck if you want to. :)

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Why does the game call for QFE instead of QNH in the first place?

I know it's probably a soviet/ Luftwaffe thing (both weren't really known for good IFR-training for their fighter-pilots), but a QFE-reading is absolutely useless for any practical purposes.

Well, except for nailing the correct pattern-altitude.

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QFE shows you  0,0m / 0,0 ft at the aerodrome reference point, QNH should show you the altitude of the aerodrome.

 

It then uses QNE for the standard atmosphere setting of 1013.2 mb / 29.92 inHg for inflight. That's better than QNH when flying because then you would have to keep setting it when moving to more distant areas where the QNH might differ ( not the case in IL.2 though... I believe )

 

Just out of curiosity, there's also QFF, which takes into account geopotential height due to colder / denser vs hotter / less dense air mass...

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Nope - you can slam it all the way to the deck if you want to. :)

 

"Slam it to the deck" is mission-builder speak for "drop the mic".   ;)

Edited by JimTM
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1 hour ago, jcomm-il2 said:

It then uses QNE for the standard atmosphere setting of 1013.2 mb / 29.92 inHg for inflight. That's better than QNH when flying because then you would have to keep setting it when moving to more distant areas where the QNH might differ ( not the case in IL.2 though... I believe )

 

That's a classical misconception in my opinion.

I'd much rather like to know my altitude compared to terrain in my surrounding area, than compared to some arbitrary standard pressure-altitude that's only useful when flying high, fast and long distance.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

That's a classical misconception in my opinion.

I'd much rather like to know my altitude compared to terrain in my surrounding area, than compared to some arbitrary standard pressure-altitude that's only useful when flying high, fast and long distance.

...that is why we set our altimeters according to the airport altitude (sometimes written in huge letters on some airport facilities) before take off. And it is why they tell me the QNH of where I want to go on the radio before I get there...

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Posted (edited)

Problem was, from where to get the QNH settings back in the ww2 times...

 

QFE was surely easier…  

 

Of course QNE is meant to be used above transition alt. 

 

Strangely, both IL2 and DCS "model QFF" although they don't report it… You can test by settings missions on cold winter days vs hot summer days...

Edited by jcomm-il2

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4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Why does the game call for QFE instead of QNH in the first place?

 

Great rhetorical question...back in the Jurassic era the only place I encountered QFE was in the UK. The RAF controllers were accustomed to giving USAFE pilots QNH, but sometimes I had to ask. And of course when the RAF came visiting other NATO bases, they had to ask for QFE.

 

I don't know the solution for the game, but I suspect most MP 1GCCFPs mainly reference the altimeter when sharing their altitude with their mates.

 

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I'd much rather like to know my altitude compared to terrain in my surrounding area, than compared to some arbitrary standard pressure-altitude that's only useful when flying high, fast and long distance.

 

Aye laddie!

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1 hour ago, jcomm-il2 said:

Problem was, from where to get the QNH settings back in the ww2 times...

 

I think getting QNH from an airfield was a non-issue.

The really interesting question comes with the missions of the 9th AF in the Ardennes: Letting down through thick and low overcasts and not quite knowing how low you could go, before hitting that bedrock-stratus.

 

I wonder whether Sweepstakes or any other kind of forward radar- and control services could relay altimeter-settings to CAS flights operating in an area of marginal weather.

Possibly by having ground-based, embedded forward air controllers take measurements.

4 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Great rhetorical question...back in the Jurassic era the only place I encountered QFE was in the UK

 

I remember using it back in my gliding years. Well, we didn't really adjust for QFE, we'd just turn the knob to have the altimeter read zero before the flight. You wouldn't ask for an altimeter-setting ever. Altitude was gauged by the Mk 1 eyeball only and I got into the habit of tapping the altimeter (boy would that thing move sometimes upon being "helped"!).

Officially you'd go QNH whenever flying crosscountry (airspace adherence and stuff), but I can't remember anybody actually doing it. Not even the instructors.

The thinking was kind of like "oh sure I was 1000ft below that cloud..." in Echo.

 

Fun Fact 1: My DPE had me winch-launch into a low (obviously) stratus overcast during my glider-checkride.

Fun Fact 2: All that "funny stuff" got a little less funny once you'd started getting serious and began flying under the hood. But by then somebody miraculously had attached a motor to my airplane...

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On 3/16/2020 at 1:04 AM, busdriver said:

@JimTM much obliged for your insight....

 

Question for you: The minimum cloud height is 500m in the QMB. Is this the minimum in the ME too?

 

 

Sorry, I missed the question at the end of your post. From my limited test, It would appear that cloud base is limited to 500m in the ME too. Valid cloud height (base to top) varies based on the type of cloud (values range from 150m to 1,500m - see pg. 222 in the editor manual.)

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