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LF_Gallahad

What about a bomber pack?

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Dear all,

 

The B-25, part of Bodenplatte planeset, has been teased as a future collector as many already know. Following the 1C routine of getting AI planes into flyable this might happen, but there is always the issue of making something profitable.

 

Now that Normandy is coming, we've got another bunch of AI, specially another bomber wich is the B-26. And lots of work to do for the new expansion.

 

When and how we are getting the B-25 is something that many fans of the big toys have been questioning. Now that there are three collectors in their way and the team is working at full speed, per the last DD, in the new expansion I think it's reasonable to think that the B-25 is on low priority.

 

So I was wondering today, in one of those traffic jams existencial crisis, what about making something profitable out of it? 

What about making a bomber pack after BoN is released or when it's on its last development circle? Giving us the B-25 alongside the B-26 will be a great idea after the team finishes their work. I am sure many people are willing to pay, like me, for these complex aircrafts. 
Even better, if they could make two Axis bombers to go with the pack, or just dividing them.

 

For example, what about a B-25, B-26, Ju-188, Do-217K for $50 with the preoorder discount? $30 for both B-25 or B26? These are just examples and numbers out of my head but I think many people would be interested and the most important part: It might be profitable.

 

As we don't really know how really this thing goes, let's see how many people are interested in the forum. There are lots of players that don't visit this place but I think we can give the team an idea. I would be really happy to see that happening, but we all know that time and money are always a problem. At least, let's give the team some ideas.

 

Let's discuss!

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An interesting thought!

 

It will probably remain exciting until we know when we get a playable B-25 (at least I assume that it will be the first of those announced as AI). My tip would be similar, that we should not expect it before the final phase of the BoN product cycle. Unless, of course, it would be finished on the side (when they have time).

 

Otherwise I would also find a bomber pack quite interesting and would buy it.(More Bomber love!). However, there are a few things that speak more against it than for it. The bombers require much more effort and even with an already (in the run-up as AI started) I am not sure whether the building of an aircraft of this kind would be worthwhile for the developers.

 

I also assume that mainly German airplanes would be excluded from this. Since we can estimate that we will still get at least 1-2 expansions with German aircraft and there you will rather save the aircraft for the expansions than to make a collector plan out of it (as it was already the case after BobP).  

 

I would love the idea of aircraft packs in general (sad that they didn't used the opportunity with the Yak-9's). 

Let's see what the future brings :)

 

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I would pay for extra bombers. No questions asked. Lower quality target drones or click pit monstrosities, doesn't matter. 

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I would pay 1000$ 

for these planes in a pack

DO 17

DO 217

B 26

B 25

—————————/—————————

Short Sunderland

Catalina or Swordfish or Grumman duck

Arado 196

Do 24 or 26

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I'd buy in if it had a Lancaster or an Il-4 (most important missing bomber)... failing that a Wellington (Coastal Command and early 1942 night bomber for the Ju-88C6 to hunt) or a Ju-188 (the beautiful view!) would be nice...

 

Just remember that bombers are much more labour intensive to model... I don't have the figures but I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 or 3 fighters could be modeled for the cost of one bomber.

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53 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Just remember that bombers are much more labour intensive to model... I don't have the figures but I wouldn't be surprised if 2.5 or 3 fighters could be modeled for the cost of one bomber.

Yes and no, in general bombers require more work then fighters mostly because of the number of different turrets that have to be created, this is especially true for an b17 or b24, so yes you could say 2/3 fighters could be made instead of an medium/heavy bomber.

 

On the other hand back in devblog 227 the IL2 team mentioned the P51/Tempest/P38 and an ai version of the B25 where the most difficult aircraft they had to create in there teams history, while this shows how difficult an ai version of the B25 was for the team it also shows the P51/Tempest and P38 where each individuality more difficult then the Pe2/Ju88/He111.

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I am willing to buy a bomber for 50 ~ 70 dollars. In fact, I have only been flying bombers and attack aircraft so far.

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It would be an instant buy for me.

I wouldn't mind if it would be more expensive than the usual price of the other products.

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

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Happy to buy even if its a pilot's position only and a bombsight. I appreciate that all the extra cockpits and turrets take too long and it is a big reason why bombers are not getting done. 

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I certainly will buy a Do 217K with Fritz-X and Hs 293, but I doubt we will ever get that. (BoN would have offered that chance already, had the devs been interested).

 

Also, if the bomber is fast and has a solid nose packed with guns, like the A-26 Invader, I could imaging buying it, too.

 

But other than that... only if discounted, I guess.

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3 hours ago, FliegerAD said:

I certainly will buy a Do 217K with Fritz-X and Hs 293, but I doubt we will ever get that. (BoN would have offered that chance already, had the devs been interested).

 

Also, if the bomber is fast and has a solid nose packed with guns, like the A-26 Invader, I could imaging buying it, too.

 

But other than that... only if discounted, I guess.

They might still go for an Do217 if they decide to do an Italy/Sicily campaign.

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5 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

They might still go for an Do217 if they decide to do an Italy/Sicily campaign.

 

I sure hope that we get a Do 217 with Fritz X and Hs 293. But that seems to depend on the map size and timeframe.

 

I can see why we did not get them in BoN since they were largely ineffective and it probably requires a lot of effort to program those weapons. ...not to mention the aircraft. The Do 217 is a bit neglected in the simulator world... well, perhaps I would buy it even without the guided munitions after all. The radar-less Do 217J with the frontal armament could be fun too.

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There seems to be a strong desire for more bombers. I generally buy everything IL-2, with a few exceptions. I pay for things I don't particular care about sometimes just because I want them to keep producing. ;)

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A bomber pack comprising the following would be awesome:

1. B25

2. IL4 or IL6

3. Mosquito

4. Bristol Beaufighter (would work for the Pacific as well)

5. Wellington

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I would no doubt pay more than the standard collector plane price for a bomber.

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If their current marketing plan is any indication, a bomber pack would be a financial failure.  They appear to need mixed packs of bombers and fighters so that enough people buy in to make it worthwhile.  

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I would love to see more bombers in IL-2

 

On 2/8/2020 at 7:07 PM, LF_Gallahad said:

 For example, what about a B-25, B-26, Ju-188, Do-217K for $50 with the preoorder discount? $30 for both B-25 or B26? These are just examples and numbers out of my head but I think many people would be interested and the most important part: It might be profitable.


but I don't think we will get them so cheap because they are much more work than a figther alone for all the internal gunner positions. So it would be more realistic the we would get them like the Ju-52 for 50-30€ each, which would be okay for me. And keep in mind there are the 50% discounts a few times a year.

I would add some bombers to your list :

 

D.H. 98 Mosquito B Mk. IV , should like the B-25 easy because you have "just" to modify the FB. variant

Ilyushin IL-4

Tupolev Tu-2 

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79

CANT Z.1007

The last two could fly on both sides alies and axis, as in WW2

 

4 hours ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

4. Bristol Beaufighter (would work for the Pacific as well)

5. Wellington

Maybe they can adapt the Models of IL-2 COD Team Fusion 5.0, they work allready together so it souldn't be that difficult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0DpU3HkYKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uINTuC4OKHA

 

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I would pay for a flyable 25 and 26. They definitely need to make some more heavies flyable.

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Just to say I would pay also for more bombers !! 

 

Dev team, @Jason_Williams , if you want money, you know what to do! :biggrin:

 

More seriously, I would like also a bit more advanced bomber gunsight management.

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Posted (edited)

Looking just for the basic needs of mainly tactical bomber operation - no dreams about strategic bombing and heavies:

 

All need:

- proper details for airfields (electric lights, light beacons, ground control with direction-finder-installation)

- marker and illumination bombs

- cluster bombs

- supply container w/o chute

- torpedoes & mines

- navigational assistance for the pilot depending on qualification of his navigator and radio operator

- recon mission procedures for mission builders

- supply mission procedures for mission builders

- area bombing target procedures for mission builders

- some kind of radio assisted targeting (Knickebein, Gee, Oboe, Gee-H)

 

Soviet Air Force:

- an early Soviet medium bomber, the DB-3F / IL-4 - no way to replace it. From 1944 on lend-lease B-25 might take over the role

- light bombers with (upgraded) A-20 and Pe-2 are fine

- Tu-2 is nice-to-have, replaceable by B-25

- A-20 needs a usable observers position

- Add late bomber models of the A-20 (flown by any allied force)

- C-47 / Li-2 for transport

 

Luftwaffe

- removable frontal MG for the Ju-88

- usable Ju-88 observers position, not that extremely limited view

- without Ju-188 there's a need for upgraded late-war Ju-88 bomber-models (Ju-88 S)

- He-111-transporter-models

 

RAF:

- Mosquito, upgraded A20 and flyable B-25 will do for tactical bombing until late WW2

- early in war until early 1942 there is no way around the Blenheim

- A-20 needs a usable observers position

- Add late bomber models of the A-20 (flown by any allied force)

- C-47 / Li-2 for transport

 

US:

- A20 and a flyable B-25 will do for tactical bombing

- except for the Pacific gun-nose-bomber-variants are nice-to-have

- same for the B-26 - nice to have, as soon as there's a flyable B-25

- A-20 needs a usable observers position

- Add late bomber models of the A-20 (flown by any allied force)

- C-47 / Li-2 for transport

 

To fly bombers and transporters in somewhat realistic scenarios and set-ups there's not that much to do. So my "bomber upgrade pack" consists of

- B-25 flyable

- A-20 upgrade, observer position & late bombing models

- IL-4 flyable

- Blenheim flyable

- Ju-88 upgrade, S-model OR Ju-188

- He-111-transporter upgrade

- DC-3 / C-47 / Li-2

- airfield operations upgrade

- weapons upgrade

 

Together with some upgraded sim-functions that pack would allow realistic bomber, recon and transport operations for all theatres from 1939 - 45.

Edited by Retnek
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40 minutes ago, Retnek said:

 

To fly bombers and transporters in somewhat realistic scenarios and set-ups there's not that much to do. So my "bomber upgrade pack" consists of

- B-25 flyable

- A-20 upgrade, observer position & late bombing models

- IL-4 flyable

- Blenheim flyable

- Ju-88 upgrade, S-model OR Ju-188

- He-111-transporter upgrade

- DC-3 / C-47 / Li-2

- airfield operations upgrade

- weapons upgrade

 

Together with some upgraded sim-functions that pack would allow realistic bomber, recon and transport operations for all theatres from 1939 - 45.

 

I am almost 100% in agreement - except for the Blenheim. As much as I love the old bird and would be ecstatic to have it, we don't have any map/scenario where it would be of use. Ok, the BoN map is going to be used for earlier ops but it's not ideal.  I would add the B-26 as a flyable instead of the Blenheim. And if I was being greedy, a Do217 for Dieppe!

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2 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

... except for the Blenheim ...

You're right - not at the moment. The Blenheim is in need as soon as IL2-GB goes for an early Western Campaign 40/41 - then imho there's no way around her. In contrast to the Eastern Front, where the IL-4-gap is wide open from the beginning. But maybe the role of the IL-4 might be somewhat comparable to the Wellington? Following unconfirmed reports from German sources the high losses forced the IL-4 into night-time-operations soon. So maybe not that relevant for the IL2-GB-focus on daylight operations? Would love to find a recent Russian source on this. To cover the topic night-bombing in general will ask too much from the IL2-GB-developers.
My main purpose was to point on the key-elements we need for a somewhat flexible and wide (daylight-) bomber-experience during the whole war. We're not that far away.

(If there is no Battle-of-Britain in IL2-GB - IL2-CloD is doing fine, soon for the Mediterranean, too! I prefer the B-26 over the B-25 any time - but if the resources are limited and the bomber-crowd seems to be small: we have to be humble)

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Retnek said:

- marker and illumination bombs

I can remember that Jason was asked for this in a  Teamspeak FAQ once (quite a while ago, though) and said, he'd look into whether it is feasable. Never heard anything of it anymore, so it is probably not deemed important. I'd thouroghly enjoy that (as you can imagine :salute:) as I would most of the proposals you made there.

 

(Psssst, Stuvi! :ph34r:)

Edited by JG4_dingsda
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having flown a few missions for the D'archangel MP upcoming mission, I can tell you that Allied bombers are weak. The biggest we have is the A20, which is really a light/medium bomber. Try taking something up against a formation of JU88s or He111s and then do the same in a german fighter against A20s or PE2s. You'll see what I mean. 

The devs developed both the JU88 and the He111 for the Luftwaffe but only the PE2 and now A20 for the allied side...quite diff aircraft in size and tonnage carried you'd think, but primarily in defensive armament too.

Anyway, fingers crossed. That list I put above would be awesome....even if its just the B25 for USA, Mosquito and Wellington for RAF and IL4 for the VVS

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Where is my wallet?

Give me a bomber pack, just name your price

😁

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Posted (edited)

Without referring to those stratigic heavy bombers, which are finacially unreasonable, I suppose we lack an adequate medium bomber for the allies.

In case of VVS, we only have Peshkas, which is an outstanding frontline fast bomber, but since it was converted to be an aircraft excelling at close air support, its relatively low bomb capacity limits its efficiency in tasks like level bombing and against targets behind the frontline. The A-20 is a quite good suppliment, but since this aircraft was only equipped by limited number of units and can only be operational in 1943 missions, there are still gaps to fill. For me, the ultimate solution is Ilyushin IL-4. This aircraft will fill the gap for bomb delivery capacity between Luftwaffe (which operates Ju.88s) and VVS.

In case of RAF/USAAF, we only has lend-lease version A-20, which is inadequate for 1943 and onwards western front battle. So of course, B-25 is necessary.

To be frank I'm a little disappointed knowing that BON will not contain any bomber with level bombing capacity. 

So that's all I want:  Ilyushin IL-4 and B-25. That's enough.

Edited by I/JG54_chuishan
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30 minutes ago, I/JG54_chuishan said:

To be frank I'm a little disappointed knowing that BON will not contain any bomber with level bombing capacity. 


What about the Ar-234?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


What about the Ar-234?

Arado is a unique aircraft and I believe it will bring excellent experience. But unfortunately Arado is only cable of doing dive bombing as far as I know. It does not carry a proper bombsight for level bombing and it's too fast for this task. Finally it can only carry up to one and a half tons of bombs... So basically it's another attacker/fighter-bomber for close air support role. May be the biggest difference is its speed.😆

Edited by I/JG54_chuishan
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7 hours ago, I/JG54_chuishan said:

But unfortunately Arado is only cable of doing dive bombing as far as I know. It does not carry a proper bombsight for level bombing and it's too fast for this task. Finally it can only carry up to one and a half tons of bombs... So basically it's another attacker/fighter-bomber for close air support role.

 

Say what? 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


What about the Ar-234?

 

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Say what? 

 

Oops... Sorry I made a mistake.😨 I only remember that Ar.234 has a Stuvi dive bombing sight integrated into the periscope... I'm glad to find a Lotfe 7 in the cockpit illustration of Ar.234B/C, which is good news. However, I'd prefer medium bombers with relatively large bomb capacity, which may be slower than Arado but is more suitable for level bombing task.

By the way, any news on what sub-variant Arado we are going to meet? Arado also built ground-attack version without Lotfe 7.

Edited by I/JG54_chuishan

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On 2/10/2020 at 5:47 AM, ww2fighter20 said:

Yes and no, in general bombers require more work then fighters mostly because of the number of different turrets that have to be created, this is especially true for an b17 or b24, so yes you could say 2/3 fighters could be made instead of an medium/heavy bomber.

 

On the other hand back in devblog 227 the IL2 team mentioned the P51/Tempest/P38 and an ai version of the B25 where the most difficult aircraft they had to create in there teams history, while this shows how difficult an ai version of the B25 was for the team it also shows the P51/Tempest and P38 where each individuality more difficult then the Pe2/Ju88/He111.

Curious here...

What makes an aircraft difficult to model?

I would think the P-51 would be a piece of cake.

Lots of data, drawings , living examples abound. Single control , single engine etc.

:salute:

skud

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On 2/17/2020 at 6:17 AM, cardboard_killer said:

There seems to be a strong desire for more bombers. I generally buy everything IL-2, with a few exceptions. I pay for things I don't particular care about sometimes just because I want them to keep producing. ;)

 

I do the same thing.

 

Would they make a Bomber pack? It sees to me, it would be more profitable to create collector planes. 

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I'll buy everything that comes.

(Even I don't get these fancy 'medals' under my AV because of Steam purchase) 😩

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Of course I've looked for this solution but Steam has the only option to pay that's possible for me (directly paying per bank account). I'm using no credit cards/paypal.

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