SimShaker - Wings support thread for IL-2 users

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

You pay now, but if you change your mind any time before it's shipped I will refund.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

I have now ordered the seat ?

And then I expect you to not ride a horse, rollerscate, SMS driving or other stuff , so my seat will come later than expected ???

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

I'm not sure about SMS driving.... What is that?

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Thats when you drive your car, and send SMS with your mobile phone ??

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Ah, no problems, I'm not such a bad guy Please don't worry.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

7 hours ago, Andre said:

Good question.

I think we've got a completely new engine effect in SimShaker - Wings for IL-2 since it's based on Engines shake amplitude variable values I'm getting straight from the game.

I've found that it's relatively high when engine RPM is low and, vise versa, become relatively low when RPM is high. And it becomes very high when engine is damaged.

That is unusual for me but looks natural and corresponds to a visual cockpit shake I can notice in the game.

Hence I decided it worth trying to make it based on Engines shake amplitude as it comes from the game and listen for the users feedback.

I wonder do you use JetSeat or bass-shakers?

I mostly tested effects with the JetSeat.

thank you for the explanation, Andre.

I don't have a JetSeat so I use couple of bass-shakers hooked up to a dedicated sound card for SimShaker effects. During a dog fight (or any non-linear aircraft operation) the engine vibration in the shakers varies pretty dramatically from extreme to silent, back and forth. I think the effect is on point, no complaints.

However I will add a game sound driven bass shaker as well to get that continuous micro-vibration feeling of a running engine...

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

19 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

thank you for the explanation, Andre.

I don't have a JetSeat so I use couple of bass-shakers hooked up to a dedicated sound card for SimShaker effects. During a dog fight (or any non-linear aircraft operation) the engine vibration in the shakers varies pretty dramatically from extreme to silent, back and forth. I think the effect is on point, no complaints.

However I will add a game sound driven bass shaker as well to get that continuous micro-vibration feeling of a running engine...

I have two Buttkickers and felt the same way about the engine rumble, was not liking it, because at some kind point goes away and feels weird.

The way I solved this and makes it a constant rumble.

I reduced the gain of all the other effects to about 30 and increased engine shake to 100% and in the Buttkicker I increased the volume.

Now I have constant engine rumble , and can also feel the other effects.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

10 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I have two Buttkickers and felt the same way about the engine rumble, was not liking it, because at some kind point goes away and feels weird.

The way I solved this and makes it a constant rumble.

I reduced the gain of all the other effects to about 30 and increased engine shake to 100% and in the Buttkicker I increased the volume.

Now I have constant engine rumble , and can also feel the other effects.

excellent, sir! Thank you for the hint, I'll give it a try! I wasn't really keen on the idea of adding yet another sub+shaker+wiring to my already over-wired/overpowered setup.. ?

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

@SCG_motoadve : Do you have two separate Buttkicker amplifiers (one for each shaker), or one amp with two shakers?

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

I have two complete Buttkicker setups, so two amplifiers, one under the seat and one attached to the joystick base.

So I can have one independent setups, like more vibration in the joystick than the seat or vice versa.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Hi Andre,

Congratulations, this is all great news. Are you able to give us any information as to when you expect the release version of SimShaker-Wings to be updated with the new effects?

Thank you in anticipation.

Happy landings,

56RAF_Talisman

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

1 hour ago, BP_Lizard said:

@SCG_motoadve : Do you have two separate Buttkicker amplifiers (one for each shaker), or one amp with two shakers?

it depends on the bass-shakers and the amp(s).

If you have a 50 watt shakers then you can drive them from a single or a dual channel 100watt amp. Point is the wattage of the amp must be equal the total watts of 2 shakers, otherwise they won't produce much of vibration. There's no magic to it, it's just pure signal power.

There's also a caveat of the effects channels. Simshaker can support Mono, Stereo, or 6 channel sound card. I.e. each soundcard channel can drive an independent shaker (in 6 channel config). Conversely, you can also have one Mono channel drive all shakers. The difference, obviously, is if you have a shaker per sound card channel then that particular shaker can produce a specific effect without influencing other shakers. I.e. you can have engine vibration only on shaker 1, roll on shaker 2, etc etc... For such split shaker configuration you'd need a separate amp per each. But in Mono you can drive all shakers from the same amp and all shakers will play the same vibration effects..

Here's a picture to describe the connectivity options. Obviously for any 'stereo' cables you can split them in to 2 mono cables and direct them to separate amp per shaker, but you'll end up with a lot of amps (6) if you do that for the 6 channel setup..

Edited January 23, 2020 by Count_de_Money

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

I have a standard buttkicker and find at times it "can" be really immersive, however I rarely turn it on as I found that being driven by the regular audio signal its effects didn't always align with when I'd expect to "feel" things.

This looks just the ticket, so am I correct in thinking that with a separate sound card to the main audio one it will generate it's own appropriate "sound" signals to feed to the butkicker based upon in game flight physics rather than audio tracks?

Since I already run my headphones through a dedicated sound card I guess I can plug the buttkciker into the simple sound system built onto the motherboard.

If it's as straightforward as those few lines I've written imply you've got yourself another customer.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

1 hour ago, BP_Lizard said:

@SCG_motoadve : Do you have two separate Buttkicker amplifiers (one for each shaker), or one amp with two shakers?

check out the picture for the visual aid.. ?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Count_de_Money

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Thank you Andre and the team of IL-2!!! We have been waiting a long time for this to happen.

And now, flying in IL-2 has another dimension added to it.

You just cannot beat the feel and the rumble when you are taxing, rolling on the runway, taking off and flying. It's another big smile to an already great sim.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

2 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

excellent, sir! Thank you for the hint, I'll give it a try! I wasn't really keen on the idea of adding yet another sub+shaker+wiring to my already over-wired/overpowered setup.. ?

Still think engine shake should be fixed, the rest of effects are great.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

2 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Hi Andre,

Congratulations, this is all great news. Are you able to give us any information as to when you expect the release version of SimShaker-Wings to be updated with the new effects?

Thank you in anticipation.

Happy landings,

56RAF_Talisman

Hi 56RAF_Talisman,

thank you!

I think that depends on how many fixes I will want to do due to users feedback at this beta stage. Hopefully in a week.

2 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

I have a standard buttkicker and find at times it "can" be really immersive, however I rarely turn it on as I found that being driven by the regular audio signal its effects didn't always align with when I'd expect to "feel" things.

This looks just the ticket, so am I correct in thinking that with a separate sound card to the main audio one it will generate it's own appropriate "sound" signals to feed to the butkicker based upon in game flight physics rather than audio tracks?

Since I already run my headphones through a dedicated sound card I guess I can plug the buttkciker into the simple sound system built onto the motherboard.

If it's as straightforward as those few lines I've written imply you've got yourself another customer.

Yes, I think you've got the idea behind it.

You can try it out in demo mode as described in SimShaker - Wings User Guide https://dreamsimteam.blogspot.com/p/user-guides.html

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

I sent you a PM, @Andre

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

15 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

check out the picture for the visual aid.. ?

Thank you very much for the detailed and informative explanation. Kind regards.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

About the engine rumble I must say I find it quite natural. My experience as an engineer (not aircraft) with engines is that vibrations gets less pronounced with higher revolutions and especially in certain optimised rev areas.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Just now, Goblin said:

About the engine rumble I must say I find it quite natural. My experience as an engineer (not aircraft) with engines is that vibrations gets less pronounced with higher revolutions and especially in certain optimised rev areas.

Yes but there is a point when the rumble just fades so much with Simshader and Buttkicker is not even possible to feel it, which feels weird, and kills immersion.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

Just now, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes but there is a point when the rumble just fades so much with Simshader and Buttkicker is not even possible to feel it, which feels weird, and kills immersion.

I agree, there must be a "feel" over the entire range but "rough" down low and "smooth" up high.

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

7 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Yes but there is a point when the rumble just fades so much with Simshader and Buttkicker is not even possible to feel it, which feels weird, and kills immersion.

Do you have the gain slider already at 100%?

May I see a screenshot with your SimShaker - Wings settings?

Posted January 23, 2020 · January 23, 2020

19 minutes ago, Andre said:

Do you have the gain slider already at 100%?

May I see a screenshot with your SimShaker - Wings settings?

Yes 100% gain.

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

Hi @Andre,

I'm not at home right now but maybe I'll get a chance to play around with this over the weekend.

I wanted to clarify what software I need exactly beforehand.

I have a two bass shaker setup (stereo), driven by an amp connected to my motherboard's onboard sound chipset. (No other vibration systems. Normal audio is routed through either an audio interface or VR headset.)

Am I right in thinking that I need to buy Wings and the bass shaker addon?

Thanks. ?

Edit:

If this is the case, does the demo version include the bass shaker addon for testing purposes?

Edited January 24, 2020 by Soilworker

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

Hi Soilworker,

No, that's not quite correct. The addon (i.e. SimShaker Sound Module) will work with DCS and some other titles but not with IL-2.

You will need SimShaker - Wings along with the option: up to 6 Bass-Shakers Support

Demo version includes the option.

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

Sorry, still confused about this part ...

What hardware do we need?

Where do we buy it?

is this? https://andres.shop/jetseat/24-77-jetseat-sim-edition.html

Edited January 24, 2020 by =gRiJ=Roman-

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

It's up to you to choose what hardware you want. If you want the massage pad feedback then you'll want to get the product you linked.

The other option is to get one or more transducers (essentially subwoofers) which mounts directly onto your rig, and amplifiers with which to drive them. You'll also need a sound card with free stereo outputs. ButtKicker is one popular brand.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Lombra

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

On 1/23/2020 at 8:35 PM, Andre said:

Do you have the gain slider already at 100%?

May I see a screenshot with your SimShaker - Wings settings?

Maybe you should add an option to setup minimal vibration level in addition of amplification level, if the effect is triggered ?

That should allow us to setup a constant minimal engine feedback, engine vibration will "fill" the hole beetwen minimal level and 100%. Of course, having engine rpm as input should be better, but as you do not have it (yet ?)...

Edited January 24, 2020 by c6_lefuneste

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

I'm afraid I don't understand your idea.

I'm getting both RPM and Engine_Shake from the game. Why do you think RPM would be better for creating vibrating effects?

Posted January 24, 2020 · January 24, 2020

oh man I am so excited about this! I have been on sim shaker wheels for a long time and already have shakers on my flight rig. Happy times!!!! I first bugged @Andre about this in 2018 for IL2.

I will be making a tutorial on how to select the right components for tactile feedback / bass shakers and how to configure effects in the next couple of weeks for everyone here Surely this will help us feel when we are on the edge of a stall / interpret g force loading and make up for the lack of FFB flight sticks on the market.

Since I already have a powerful amp and transducers I will not cover the jet seat but those look like a great option.

Edited January 24, 2020 by capt_nasties

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

That would be really great capt_nasties !

since I'm mainly focused on Gametrix JetSeats/SimShaker JetPads area.

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

19 hours ago, Andre said:

Hi Soilworker,

No, that's not quite correct. The addon (i.e. SimShaker Sound Module) will work with DCS and some other titles but not with IL-2.

You will need SimShaker - Wings along with the option: up to 6 Bass-Shakers Support

Demo version includes the option.

Ah I didn't see there was also an addon (the Sound Module), sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the 6 Bass-Shakers Support option as and addon.

Okay thanks for getting back to me so quick, Andre, have a great weekend. ?

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

13 hours ago, Andre said:

I'm afraid I don't understand your idea.

I'm getting both RPM and Engine_Shake from the game. Why do you think RPM would be better for creating vibrating effects?

Well, as SCG_motoadve, I'm expecting to have a significant level of vibration once the engine is running. Maybe it's because I'm used to sound mode for IL2 GB, but IRL I fly sometime utlralight plane and I fill that the engine is running with my butt ?

The engine shaking is great, but lacks this nearly constant level of vibration, created only by engine parts movement and also explosion chambers. Even if we add 100% factor, I miss something in engine vibration.

This is why adding a vibration source by using RPM should be a good thing, in addition of engine shaking of course.

Edited January 25, 2020 by c6_lefuneste

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

I agree with the above: both RPM and shake should be in the options. Engine shake gives the extra sensory input at low RPM and failures and the RPM values sits as a base vibration.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Goblin

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

2 hours ago, Goblin said:

I agree with the above: both RPM and shake should be in the options. Engine shake gives the extra sensory input at low RPM and failures and the RPM values sits as a base vibration.

OK, I think I will try to add RPM into the algorithm.

⁉️

Guys,I've got a question.

Is current strength of Engine Shaker effect at LOW RPMs (about engine idle) enough?

Edited January 25, 2020 by Andre

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

Hi Andre just tried to order but PayPal declined

To comply with regulatory requirements, this transaction has been declined.

Any ideas?

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

Well I was going to give this a try this weekend but somewhat frustratingly it will have to wait a while for three reasons

1)I've dug out my old buttkicker2 and found that I've got a snapped cable between amp and shaker, so I've had to order a new part to repair that cable.

2)Whilst I've been able to download and install the previous demo of simshaker wings just fine, my anti-virus software is having a hissy-fit and blocking the latest beta version which includes the wider variety of effects for Il2.

3)I'm struggling to find a separate download for the additional option for simshaker wings to support bass shakers where it is not clear (to me at least) if this is part of the standard download I've already installed. Being listed as a separate product with an additional price I assumed I would need to find and install the other download but the standard product already seems to mention options for bass shakers. Sadly I can't test any of this yet to know if they are active options or things I need another download to activate.

So, once I've got my buttkicker working again I may see if I have more success with downloading the appropriate software.

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

1 hour ago, Andre said:

OK, I think I will try to add RPM into the algorithm.

⁉️

Guys,I've got a question.

Is current strength of Engine Shaker effect at LOW RPMs (about engine idle) enough?

Yes engine shaker effect at low RPM feels great.

But if you add RPM option would be .perfect.

I fly an airplane with a 9 cylinder radial engine and when you add rpms you feel more vibration for sure not less, the panel and gauges shake.

Here is a video comparing shake at take off, cruise and idle.

At full throttle and RPM it does vibrate a lot more than at 75% power at cruise.

Posted January 25, 2020 · January 25, 2020

3 hours ago, DD_Crash said:

Hi Andre just tried to order but PayPal declined

To comply with regulatory requirements, this transaction has been declined.

Any ideas?

Please read info here https://andres.shop/content/5-secure-payment

SimShaker - Wings support thread for IL-2 users

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