MiG-3 flaps issue?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

There's one scenario missing from the post you linked: Flaps are extended (whether they're limited doesn't matter). I want to retract them completely.

 

If I understand it correctly, in real life this should be as easy as setting the flaps valve to "retract". *However*, when I press shift-F to do exactly that, the game seems to think I want to move the flaps limiter instead and returns the flaps to "extend" once I release shift-F. I haven't yet found any way to get the flaps to permanently retract.

 

Could you give the correct procedure for the scenario above, i.e. retracting extended flaps?

Edited September 5, 2020 by AEthelraedUnraed

[FeuerFliegen]

We also discussed this in this thread here...

 

 

 

I really hope this gets fixed... it's completely broken now.

[CSW_Tommy544]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:44 PM, LukeFF said:

 

 

@LukeFF I think you should read other people's comments instead of just linking that one reply, which does not address what is being discussed right now.

 

I also agree that we should have the possibility to control just the flaps valve separately (for example by short pressing the extend/retract flaps keys) instead of the valve always ending in the released position unless the limiter is returned to 0. The flaps on the P-38 already behave differently based on whether the user short pressed or long pressed the flaps key, so I believe it should not be too difficult to implement it.

[firdimigdi]

In June there had been a reply to a bug report I brought up about this issue:

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

my biggest pet peeve with Mig-3 is that it became rather noncompetitive in the MP world after these flap changes. I used to fly it a lot.. like a lot in MP, and it was a rather challenging but still manageable platform. But as everyone knows the MP fights  are all about making the bogey on your 6 to overshoot in upclose-and-personal dog fights. Without the quick flaps operation Mig3 becomes a boom and zoom fighter, akin to a FW but with lackluster firepower. On one hand it's "more realistic" and teaches you how to improve your gunnery for a single-pass kill, however on another hand it's a sitting duck if you miscalculated.

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Didney_World said:

my biggest pet peeve with Mig-3 is that it became rather noncompetitive in the MP world after these flap changes. I used to fly it a lot.. like a lot in MP, and it was a rather challenging but still manageable platform. But as everyone knows the MP fights  are all about making the bogey on your 6 to overshoot in upclose-and-personal dog fights. Without the quick flaps operation Mig3 becomes a boom and zoom fighter, akin to a FW but with lackluster firepower. On one hand it's "more realistic" and teaches you how to improve your gunnery for a single-pass kill, however on another hand it's a sitting duck if you miscalculated.

 

Well, that's just an example (as you allude to at the end) of how woefully unrealistic MP gameplay can be. The MiG-3 was meant to do battle at high altitudes and high speed, hitting the enemy's bombers and recon planes and then getting out of there. It wasn't meant to be an aerial ballerina, getting into slow turn fights with 109s - that's just asking to play to the 109's advantages. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by LukeFF

[Guest deleted@134347]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Well, that's just an example (as you allude to at the end) of how woefully unrealistic MP gameplay can be. The MiG-3 was meant to do battle at high altitudes and high speed, hitting the enemy's bombers and recon planes and then getting out of there. It wasn't meant to be an aerial ballerina, getting into slow turn fights with 109s - that's just asking to play to the 109's advantages. 

 

of course, I wasn't contesting it at all. But as gamey as the MP experience is this is really the only fighter in VVS arsenal that has this particular disadvantage. Sadly it seems to be quite unfair since it was working fine, then it was "fixed" akin to your home pet cat, and it lost its effectiveness. ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

So, coming back to this....   Do the flaps and limiter system currently work correctly and if so, what is the correct procedure?  

Sorry to say it but, if it is working correctly but, it's an impairment compared to a more ideal system that could have been used or if it's an inconvenience to multiplayer, I don't care.  

 

The only thing I care about is - Do the flaps and limiter system work (historically) correctly?     If not, I certainly want it to be fixed.

[Guest deleted@134347]

9 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

So, coming back to this....   Do the flaps and limiter system currently work correctly and if so, what is the correct procedure?  

Sorry to say it but, if it is working correctly but, it's an impairment compared to a more ideal system that could have been used or if it's an inconvenience to multiplayer, I don't care.  

 

The only thing I care about is - Do the flaps and limiter system work (historically) correctly?     If not, I certainly want it to be fixed.

 

they don't.  The flaps limiter that was used to pre-set the flaps angle no longer works. The flaps retract function that used to retract flaps instantly/quickly back to 0 no longer works.  We have flaps down and up operation that's it. However, that wouldn't have been an issue either, but the flaps down/up don't work like on other planes either. You push down button and the limiter is being engaged (to set the angle and flaps aren't moving at this point), and right after you release the down button the flaps come down to that angle automatically instead of having the pilot to engage the actual "flaps down" controls.  The flaps up operation engages the limiter to set back to 0 (takes time and flaps aren't retracting at that time) after which it retracts the flaps. The flaps up operation should be without limiter setting and should be pretty quick/instantaneous.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Didney_World

[216th_Jordan]

Would very much like a separate control for flaps limiter. Currently it is just a pain.

 

And I wonder if it was possible to increase the limiter (larger angle allowed) while the flaps are out - because the limiter moves in the direction of the load I would not see why it would not be possible but I am not familiar with the physical design.

[FeuerFliegen]

My biggest issue with all of this is the fact that multiple threads, on multiple areas of the forum, have been started about this, some of them many months old.  As well known as this is, nothing seems to be acknowledged by anyone that works with the game.

 

 

3 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

And I wonder if it was possible to increase the limiter (larger angle allowed) while the flaps are out - because the limiter moves in the direction of the load I would not see why it would

not be possible but I am not familiar with the physical design.

 

I have wondered the same exact thing; if you could lower the flaps more while they were down, but not raise them (as raising would require extra force to push the flaps back up)

[Ace_Pilto]

The Russian black magic flaps are still mystifying folks. After all this time! lol

[Guest deleted@134347]

sigh... again my mig3 complaint thread was overshadowed and overpowered by the newly released patch..

 

just kidding!  ? ?   Can't wait to try the new visibility gameplay!

 

will get back to our scheduled complaint programming later on ? 

[firdimigdi]

Not to be a broken record, been replaying a BOM campaign (with the aim of transferring to a Hurricane unit later on), and this is still a thing in 4.503.

[ktriggerk0ld]

Good thing I've found this topic instead of starting a new thread.

I just started a new Mig-3 career with the BoM, and this is very frustrating not being able to use the flaps in combat. Flaps just won't stay retracted if any limiter >0% is used.

Is there at least some workaround for it?

I am really enjoying the beast but not being able to drop the flaps in flight should be addressed.

Thanks.

[ktriggerk0ld]

Double post. Sorry.

Edited November 30, 2020 by ktriggerk0ld
Double post

[FeuerFliegen]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:16 PM, ktriggerk0ld said:

Good thing I've found this topic instead of starting a new thread.

I just started a new Mig-3 career with the BoM, and this is very frustrating not being able to use the flaps in combat. Flaps just won't stay retracted if any limiter >0% is used.

Is there at least some workaround for it?

I am really enjoying the beast but not being able to drop the flaps in flight should be addressed.

Thanks.

 

Not yet, but hopefully soon!  A while ago you used to be able to open and close them at any point it was set at, but apparently something about that wasn't historically realistic, so they changed it, but unfortunately the new way is just worse and still historically incorrect.

[cardboard_killer]

I decided to give the MiG more of a go today. I had previously only started, taken off, done a circuit and then landed a few times. But I now find the flaps really confusing and found this thread. I'm not sure about historically correct, but I think I'll put the MiG back in the box until something is done to rationalize the flap system. They seem to be unsuited for use in combat. If that's the way they were, then I guess I can leave it in the box, but I hope it is something that can be changed to work in combat as the plane is a looker.

[WWDriftwood]

Just tried the flaps, have a squad mission coming up and have to fly the MiG, but can set the flap limiter. Basically you have to operate them like a BF109 only when you're raising and lowering the flaps, they are in the retracted position. Let go of the button, flaps drop to what you have them set to, or up if you raise them. But always retracted while adjusting them up/down. 

 

 

[FeuerFliegen]

On 1/19/2021 at 2:34 AM, WWDriftwood said:

Just tried the flaps, have a squad mission coming up and have to fly the MiG, but can set the flap limiter. Basically you have to operate them like a BF109 only when you're raising and lowering the flaps, they are in the retracted position. Let go of the button, flaps drop to what you have them set to, or up if you raise them. But always retracted while adjusting them up/down. 

 

 

 

 

yep... clearly not historical.

 

I'm REALLY hoping the devs will take a look at this.  About 7 months ago they said they would.  I hope they remember.  Either way I have faith that they will fix them eventually; they are always fixing things from planes that were originally developed a long time ago.

[WWDriftwood]

On 1/20/2021 at 3:43 AM, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

I'm REALLY hoping the devs will take a look at this.  About 7 months ago they said they would.  I hope they remember.  Either way I have faith that they will fix them eventually; they are always fixing things from planes that were originally developed a long time ago.

 

I wish this would be fixed, haven't heard anything other than the comment above 8 months ago... 

[WWDriftwood]

On 6/16/2020 at 7:37 AM, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Firdimigdi, the principal of work with flaps in the MiG-3 will soon be reviewed.

 

Any word on when the MiG-3 flaps get some attention? thanks...

[FeuerFliegen]

Every time I see a notification for new post on this thread, the first thing I do is immediately come here to check, hoping for an update or progress.

[mattswe]

Hi!

I really cant figure out how the flaps work on the Mig-3. I know there are multiple posts in the forum, and I have read a lot of them, but still there doesnt seem to be any logic to it. 

 

I know there is a flap limiter. You can map one key to extend and and another to retract the flaps. I think the idea is to hold one of them down in order to set the limiter, and to push in order to extend/retract. But in flight this doesnt seem to work properly. The regulator inside cockpit seem to have three positions, but there is no logic in how it moves either. 

 

I would highly appreciate som help on this one.

[Asgar]

Hold flaps up or down to set the amount of flaps you want.

 

press flaps  up or down to retract or lower to the set position.

 

it actually is that easy. I haven’t flown the MiG-3 in ages so I don’t know if there is a bug, but I haven’t seen any reports on it. So it should all be functioning

Edited August 3, 2021 by Asgar

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Extending the flaps works fine, but retracting them indeed doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, this is a bug and it's already been reported a couple of times but unfortunately nothing has been done yet AFAIK.

[354thFG_Panda_]

The flaps use to work by setting the value you want and dropping them when you need it to that specified value.

 

However, It seems to work differently and like other planes now. You just set the flap limit and it deploys to that limit automatically without an additional press of the flaps to deploy. It takes a much longer time making them harder to use in combat when you really need the lift. I do not know if it is intentional, a bug or maybe I have the controls wrong.

 

I have also noticed that retracting them they do this thing where they retract fully and then when you let go to a certain flap percentage they deploy again. They retract every time there are changes to the flap limit.

Edited August 3, 2021 by LR.TheRedPanda

[Pict]

MiG-3 flap control is the first thing explained in Requiem's excellent video:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3625-air-combat-tutorialstir-profile-angle-off-charts-updated-11-july-2021/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-484380

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Just now, Pict said:

MiG-3 flap control is the first thing explained in Requiem's excellent video:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3625-air-combat-tutorialstir-profile-angle-off-charts-updated-11-july-2021/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-484380

Flap control in the MiG was changed a while ago, so this video is now out of date.

[Pict]

3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Flap control in the MiG was changed a while ago, so this video is now out of date.

 

Indeed you are not wrong, the MiG-3 flaps are not working as they should.

 

=================================

 

In fact having just done a test flight, I'll go further than that and say that they have never worked properly even in the video I linked above.

 

Ideally, you should be able to allocate an axis to the flap limiting wheel in the MiG-3 and an up and a down button.

 

=================================

 

Additionally, I noticed that when you push the up button or the down button the animation of the flap lever in the cockpit goes in the same direction for both, which is also wrong.

 

The airspeed is having an effect of the flaps, as it should, but it doesn't appear to be consistent, I may be wrong here. But at any rate the raising and lowering of the flaps now appears to get confused with the limiter and odd flap behavior is the result.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Pict
Spelling

[Na-zdorovie]

i find the limiter is working fine, but the flaps arent moving after

[Canvas25]

Does anyone here have access to a real world 'pilot's notes' for the Mig-3?

 

Would the pilot really have to first retract flaps on final if he needed more flaps?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

There was a lever to set the flap limiter, and a separate lever to extend/retract flaps, IIRC.

[Canvas25]

So IRL could the pilot lower the flaps from half to full without raising them first? That's the question.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Nope, the pilot could only change the limiter with flaps up. But that should be modeled in the game, see here: 

What's *not* modeled is that the pilot could raise the flaps without setting the limiter to 0%. Effectively giving us the same flap system as the Bf-109, while in reality it should have been a pretty useful system.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Overly complex for no apparent reason.  Just like the GUIs of most Russian developed games.  Culturally this makes sense to those raised in that culture.  

 

To those raised in the west, we ask, why not just have an up/down selector (single control) and an indicator in the cockpit that tells where the flaps are and have the ability to select the position we want when we want it with out having two levers and a cumbersome dance on the levers to simply put the flaps where you want them?

 

Just like the binocular view in tanks.  Why have two separate key combination commands when you could just have a single key toggle to raise and lower the binoculars?

 

Simple is better, always.

Edited August 11, 2021 by BlitzPig_EL

[firdimigdi]

Sadly it's been broken for about a year or more. The idea is: set flap angle/limit then extend/retract; which is kinda cool for setting up combat flap angle to use in a pinch. However as it is now it doesn't work and it's also dangerous to use and can catch you off guard since setting the angle automatically retracts them instead of requiring your input to do so.

Edited August 11, 2021 by 335th_GRFirdimigdi

[tsb47]

I have this too

[mattswe]

On 8/11/2021 at 4:14 PM, 335th_GRFirdimigdi said:

Sadly it's been broken for about a year or more. The idea is: set flap angle/limit then extend/retract; which is kinda cool for setting up combat flap angle to use in a pinch. However as it is now it doesn't work and it's also dangerous to use and can catch you off guard since setting the angle automatically retracts them instead of requiring your input to do so.

Sad. Takes some fun out of the mig. 

[Charon]

On 8/10/2021 at 10:48 AM, Canvas25 said:

Does anyone here have access to a real world 'pilot's notes' for the Mig-3?

 

Would the pilot really have to first retract flaps on final if he needed more flaps?

 

Here are technical notes for the MiG-3. You'll find description of the flaps on page 24.

 

I don't read or speak Russian, and a translation by a native speaker would be appreciated.