Mission editor is a joke ?

[Gambit21]

42 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

I think everyone like myself who has used and mastered the ME ultimately to support your products, should be made aware of the above statement to allow them to put their own interpretation on it. In a free forum I would not hesitate to assert mine.

 

I read your post 4 times and I still have no idea what you're trying to say. 

[Cynic_Al]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I read your post 4 times and I still have no idea what you're trying to say. 

 

Before I say anything I should make it clear that this conversation is being logged independently, so that should it mysteriously disappear, it will be displayed somewhere it can't.

 

For those who may not have noticed, this game offers multiplayer functionality, which for some of us is its only appealing aspect. In practice this entails independent individuals taking the trouble and expense to create and host their own missions. In pursuit of such endeavours a mission editor (of any quality) becomes a fundamental requirement, not a luxury item to be provided at the benevolence of the game's developers, which is the way I construe the statement I quoted.

 

Can anyone suggest a reason it should not be interpreted in that way?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dirt_Merchant]

Haha @Cynic_Al you definitely live up to your name.

 

That said, I see your point and it is a good one I personally agree with. Without providing the community with the ability to create user missions - the dev team would have done themselves a disservice. I didn't find @Jason_Williams comments quite as provocative as you, but i do see your point in challenging them.

 

Another point here though is that @1024JOJO is a completely rude, arrogant, and unappreciative individual, and essentially went straight for insults with the post title and continued insulting forum members throughout this thread.

[Gambit21]

16 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Before I say anything I should make it clear that this conversation is being logged independently, so that should it mysteriously disappear, it will be displayed somewhere it can't.

 

Nobody cares.

Already my eyes are rolling and possibly throwing up in my mouth a bit.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

For those who may not have noticed, this game offers multiplayer functionality,

 

More of the same.

 

16 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

which for some of us is its only appealing aspect. In practice this entails independent individuals taking the trouble and expense to create and host their own missions. In pursuit of such endeavours a mission editor (of any quality) becomes a fundamental requirement,

 

An opinion that Jason shares, which is why we have the editor 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

not a luxury item to be provided at the benevolence of the game's developers, which is the way I construe the statement I quoted.

 

Construe differently next time.

This isn’t the old days. The guy you’re being a jerk to is the reason we have the editor as I said above. 

 

16 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Can anyone suggest a reason it should not be interpreted in that way?

 

Umm...because it’s not what you typed?

Sometimes we have trouble deciphering arrogant, ignorant pseudo-intellectual babble.

 

Just talk/type like a normal person.

It will save everyone time.

 

[Dirt_Merchant]

2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Nobody cares.

Already my eyes are rolling and possibly throwing up in my mouth a bit.

 

 

 

More of the same.

 

 

An opinion that Jason shares, which is why we have the editor 

 

 

 

Construe differently next time.

This isn’t the old days. The guy you’re being a jerk to is the reason we have the editor as I said above. 

 

 

Umm...because it’s not what you typed?

Sometimes we have trouble deciphering arrogant, ignorant pseudo-intellectual babble.

 

Just talk/type like a normal person.

It will save everyone time.

 

 

 

My initial reaction was similar to yours @Gambit21 but at the end of the day, from the consumer point of view, this guy has a point.

 

[Gambit21]

Loft (old producer) didn’t give us the editor for a while..

Jason pushed him to give it to us - that was quite some time ago now.

So respectfully no I don’t think he has much of a point all things considered.

[Dirt_Merchant]

Respectfully, I think you may need to reconsider *what* @Cynic_Al was saying, and not *how* he was saying it.

 

@Cynic_Al was making the point that a game such as this, without the ability to produce community content, would not last long. In this he is entirely correct. A large scope sim absolutely requires the support of the community, as usually the dev team is hands-full building out the environment (including the environment, aircraft, mechanics, and other assets )and cannot spend the resources to crank out fresh scenarios. Additionally on the side of multiplayer - the entire concept is community supported. I don't think the devs support the server bills, and neither do i think they should have that responsibility. I do absolutely think that an editor is a requirement for the success of the sim as a whole. 

 

It seems that you are allowing the arrogant tone of @1024JOJO, and the cryptic method in which @Cynic_Al  communicates (not to mention the logging comments) to cloud your judgement on the content of the statement.

[OrLoK]

Not all games have the luxury of modding or an editor.

 

We should feel rather pleased we can edit the game/missions, difficult or not.

[Dirt_Merchant]

Guys, I fully recognize your points - and I agree that we are fortunate to have the editor that we do have - you are correct.

 

This is a two sided coin though - name a sim without an editor that continues to have a player-base.

 

To be clear, i am in no way commenting on the state of, or quality of, or experience of using the editor. I am commenting regarding the existence of an editor at all. I have repeatedly said that I find the way in which OP started this thread to be distasteful.

Edited October 23, 2019 by [_FLAPS_]Dirt_Merchant
Clarity

[1024JOJO]

Hallo Namhee

 

danke nochmal für Deine Verbesserungen. Beim Start von Marseille hast Du mir ja das mir bisher unbekannte Event "OnPlaneTookOff" untergejubelt, hervorragend, jetzt funzt es !

Andere freche Frage: wo finde ich ein paar Maxerl (Bodenpersonal) damit der Flugplatz etwas belebt wird, bevor ich die Testflüge mit der ME 262 beginne ?

Am liebsten wäre ich aber anfangs zum Üben mit einer ME 108 oder Klemm unterwegs, aber das spielt es ja leider nicht.

 

Danke nochmal

 

LG

 

Wolfgang

 

[namhee2]

7 minutes ago, 1024JOJO said:

Hallo Namhee

 

danke nochmal für Deine Verbesserungen. Beim Start von Marseille hast Du mir ja das mir bisher unbekannte Event "OnPlaneTookOff" untergejubelt, hervorragend, jetzt funzt es !

Andere freche Frage: wo finde ich ein paar Maxerl (Bodenpersonal) damit der Flugplatz etwas belebt wird, bevor ich die Testflüge mit der ME 262 beginne ?

Am liebsten wäre ich aber anfangs zum Üben mit einer ME 108 oder Klemm unterwegs, aber das spielt es ja leider nicht.

 

Danke nochmal

 

LG

 

Wolfgang

 

 

[1024JOJO]

Hi Folks,

 

I appologize for my "arrogant tone", some People are obviously offended by.

This was not my Intention, but a lot of replies anyway was the result.

So I hope the discussion is not fruitless, I was only frustrated after a day in the Office …..

 

Greetings all

 

Wolfgang

 

PS:

 

Namhee: Extra Danke für den Tip oben !!! 

 

 

 

 

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

...

For those who may not have noticed, this game offers multiplayer functionality, which for some of us is its only appealing aspect. In practice this entails independent individuals taking the trouble and expense to create and host their own missions. In pursuit of such endeavours a mission editor (of any quality) becomes a fundamental requirement, not a luxury item to be provided at the benevolence of the game's developers, which is the way I construe the statement I quoted.

 

Can anyone suggest a reason it should not be interpreted in that way?

 

I did not see Jason's statement as benevolent developers giving us a luxury item. Rather, I saw it as developers giving us one of their development tools because we said that we wanted it, with the understanding that there would be limited support due to resource constraints. I suspect that most independent individuals take the trouble and expense to create and host their own missions (and do lots of other things) because they really want to support the developers and help this sim succeed. That's part of the reason why I wrote my editor manual.

Edited October 23, 2019 by JimTM

[BraveSirRobin]

35 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Dirt_Merchant said:

 

This is a two sided coin though - name a sim without an editor that continues to have a player-base.

 

‘I don’t think you understand the context of Jason’s comments.  The editor was released back when multiplayer was just coop missions.  There were probably only 4 aircraft available.  The main point of his comment is that the editor was not originally intended to be public.  Obviously they would have needed a mission design feature eventually.  Since they don’t have the resources to create a public one, we get the developer version.

 

You’re also probably not aware of Al ‘s (aka. arty Effem)  MO in here.  He’s basically here to insult the developer and score cheap debating points against people he holds in contempt, which is probably everyone.  If he has a point, it’s only by accident, and it’s usually not relevant to the discussion.

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I weary of all the complaints about the editor. I am one that actually enjoys the challenge of creating missions with editors. I even do it with other games. For that matter, I often don't purchase games that don't have a editor included. But that is just me.

 

I'd like to point out that the developers did include a 'idiot proof' mission editor with and in the game. The Quick Mission Builder. Albeit, it is very limited compared to the full ME but It is 'idiot proof'. 

 

For those among us that desired a more feature packed and capable mission editor, the one given us was a gift that keeps on giving. True, it requires a much greater commitment of desire and time to use effectively but is very rewarding in its' capabilities.

 

Finally, do everybody a favor, if you are impatient, lazy or intellectually challenged..... stick with the 'idiot proof' QMB and stay away from the full ME. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Thad

[Dirt_Merchant]

13 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

‘I don’t think you understand the context of Jason’s comments.  The editor was released back when multiplayer was just coop missions.  There were probably only 4 aircraft available.  The main point of his comment is that the editor was not originally intended to be public.  Obviously they would have needed a mission design feature eventually.  Since they don’t have the resources to create a public one, we get the developer version.

 

You’re also probably not aware of Al ‘s (aka. arty Effem)  MO in here.  He’s basically here to insult the developer and score cheap debating points against people he holds in contempt, which is probably everyone.  If he has a point, it’s only by accident, and it’s usually not relevant to the discussion.

 

Haha you may be right about that! I don't have the history with Al to comment on that, and honestly not sure I care to know.

 

I do feel like he does have a point here, but again - I don't agree with how it is communicated.

 

For clarity again, I am not in any way commenting on the editor that we have - I am commenting on the necessity of the editor in general. Community contribution keeps games like this alive for a long time.

[BraveSirRobin]

15 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Dirt_Merchant said:

 

I do feel like he does have a point here

 

Only if you completely ignore the context of the discussion and the history of the developer.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I'm not surprised the ME creates headlines from new users as above.

It's a massively powerful tool which I've only scratched the surface with really, despite 100's of hours in it.

However, I understand frustration when there's still so many things that don't seem to work as one would expect : Spawning with formation commands ; Train carriages not deleting ; ai deciding to fly off the map for no reason ; trying to get targets bombed remotely etc etc.

What it is and how we got it is history, but a new user can't be expected to know this off the bat so we should maybe cut them a bit of slack.

They've just paid for a game which comes with a mission editor, most will expect the ME to be a more user-friendly experience than perhaps it is.

[Dirt_Merchant]

Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Only if you completely ignore the context of the discussion and the history of the developer.

 

You left out the most important part of my statement - "but again - I don't agree with how it is communicated. "

 

I am not sorry i don't have the full scope and history of this individual's behavior in this community - I don't care to get into it to be honest.

 

The core of *my* point it that this game *must* have an editor of some sort to maintain relevance.

[BraveSirRobin]

40 minutes ago, [_FLAPS_]Dirt_Merchant said:

 

You left out the most important part of my statement 

 

I’m responding to the part that you insist on repeating even though it isn’t really true.  Arty is just taking cheap shots at the developer.  No one is arguing that we don’t need a mission editor.