Jump to content
jollyjack

Bodenplatte map area

Recommended Posts

On the SAS forum this was posted, and i wonder if the actual map for BP will cover some more area ..  i hope IL*2 will come with more ground up north and east, like the Hamburg and Berlin area plus the coasts further northwards. We've got Cliffs, maybe add it's maps somehow?

 

PS, Idea for makers of Scripted Campaigns? Battle of the Scheldt .... Maybe we'll need a little more map south-west wards then for naval movements:

 

In the Netherlands they're commemorating this naval and ground forces Battle now 75 years ago. We have got the British, Canadian and Polish soldiers especially to thank for their heroism freeing us from the Nazis after 5 years of terror. Some 10.000 of them lost their lives then.

 

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/history/second-world-war/scheldt#scheldt04

 

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=116. J

 

BOBP-Map-with-Codenames.jpg

Edited by jollyjack
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That does appear to be the map Jason posted. It’s not definitely final, but I doubt it will be any larger. What you see is basically what we will get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The map as is is freaking huge. Trust me you won’t feel like you are missing anything. This is about the limit we can make.

 

Jason

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 8
  • Upvote 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

The map as is is freaking huge. Trust me you won’t feel like you are missing anything. This is about the limit we can make.

 

Jason

 

And what a map it is! I am so excited to see it in person, and to try and fly an A-20 all the way across it like I tried to do with Kuban when it was first released lol

I bet you guys are gonna be so happy once you're finally done with this huge map yeah? xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious if there will be any ships on this map, if not don't worry about it. Not a huge priority

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, freaking huge is about right. Im guessing a very long mission wouldn’t use more than 1/4 of it. We would need drop tanks if it gets any bigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a good online resource for Airfields and squadrons in each one of them over time (44-45)?

I would like to start brainstorming some ideas for a BoBP scripted campaign.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Is there a good online resource for Airfields and squadrons in each one of them over time (44-45)?

I would like to start brainstorming some ideas for a BoBP scripted campaign.

 

 

I’m planning on doing a 370th FG lightning campaign from Florennnes A-78 if you want to brainstorm with me on that. 😁

 

There were at least 2 P-38 squadrons and a black widow night fighter squadron there from September ‘44 until early ‘45. I won’t be covering that entire time period, or at least not in one go around.

 

My first search for information on advance landing grounds was here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Landing_Ground

 

That site lists all the ALGs and which groups were posted there on what dates

 

Edited by Jaegermeister
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I’m planning on doing a 378th FG lightning campaign from Florennnes A-78 if you want to brainstorm with me on that. 😁

 

There were at least 2 P-38 squadrons and a black widow night fighter squadron there from around mid ‘44 until early ‘45. I won’t be covering that entire time period, or at least not in one go around.

 

Nice idea! So night fighter missions?

 

I'm thinking hard about doing a Tempest campaign....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, unfortunately we don’t have the Black Widow. I’ll be doing daytime Tactical mostly.

 

Gambit is still doing a 365th P47 campaign as far as I know.

Someone definitely needs to do a Tempest campaign and so far I haven’t heard any plans for any Mustang adventures either.

Edited by Jaegermeister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah I misread as P-38 being in a night fighter role. Never heard about that, but would have been nice. Anyway, P-38 is a fantastic plane with many possible mission scenarios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, they had the Lightning boys hauling lots of ordnance all day, so I don’t think they had much time left over to fly at night. 😴 They ran into some air targets too, although it wasn’t the primary mission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jaegermeister said:

I’m planning on doing a 370th FG lightning campaign from Florennnes A-78 if you want to brainstorm with me on that. 😁

 

The 401st FS does have one of the coolest patch designs!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Gambit is still doing a 365th P47 campaign as far as I know.

Someone definitely needs to do a Tempest campaign and so far I haven’t heard any plans for any Mustang adventures either.

 

Yep - underway.

 

First mission is Oct 6 or 7th, Battle Aachen, Hurtgen Forest etc, then moving on to Nov, then through the Bulge

counteroffensive etc.

 

We definitely need a P-38 and Tempest campaign. 

 

When the map goes public I’ll start a build thread like I did with the A-20 campaign.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

The map as is is freaking huge. Trust me you won’t feel like you are missing anything. This is about the limit we can make. Jason

 

I guess you're the expert ... now if i drive me ole VW Transporter from the Dutch coast towards the eastern part of the map, say Bielefed, it takes me 4 hours, it's about 2 hours further to Berlin maybe ... Wonder how long it will take if i move up and above the clouds, and maybe get some bombs dropped on the Ringlokshuppen in Mulheim.

Joking, had a gig there once; it's a beautifully restorated building with theater, restaurants ant more:

 

flying vw transporter.jpg

Edited by jollyjack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gambit, with your ties to the 352nd FG, who would be more predestined to build a Mustang-campaign?

 

The 354th FG should be interesting - not the least because of their swap from Mustangs to Thunderbolts (November '44) and back to Mustangs (February '45).

Problem is they were based outside the map area (France).

 

The 362nd also had a detachment on the continent tarting in December '44, but outside the map-boundaries (St. Dizier).

They moved to Chièvres (within the map/ A-84) in February '45.

They'd ferry back to England in early April '45, though.

 

The 363rd was disbanded before the BoBP timeframe really takes off.

 

The 370th transitioned to Mustangs in early March '45 and moved east into Germany (to Gütersloh/ Y-99) with them. => They could be depicted easonably well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This map is about 16'000 square kilometers. If this Map is top quality with all the details, high res elevation, beaches, rivers, cities, villages, roads, railways forests etc... then yes it is a huge undertaking because on european maps the density of people, roads, villages, cities, railways etc. is much higher than on the russian openspaces. 

It is true that a fighter at 500 km/hr would fly from east to west in about a little less than one hour. Same from North to south. In diagonal it is a little less than an hour and half. Frankly this is more than enough. For the long flights lasting many hours (for the small community that loves this) we must probably wait for the pacific theater, where land is scarce, sea surface is huge and so you can have very large maps like 50'000 square kilometers probably.

 

On the same basis the Kuban map is a little smaller with about 12'000 square kilometers of usable map in the editor. The visible map is maybe about the size of Bodenplatte.

But there is a huge difference in water to land ratio. In Kuban you have a lot of the surface that is occupied by the sea. On the other hand you have high mountains. On the Bodenplatte map the sea share is small and it is all land. You do not have very high mountains but have a max altitude in the Ardennes of about 700 meters, so still some interesting heights. 

 

Wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Gambit, with your ties to the 352nd FG, who would be more predestined to build a Mustang-campaign?

 

For a long time I would have thought so. With the amount of info that I have it would seem the 'no brainier' option.

However a few factors steered me toward the Jug first.

First, the "Hell Hawks" book by Dorr and Jones - that book is packed with information - a great read.

It lays out a nice, very historical mission progression.

 

Second it was a desire to stick with mud moving, which enables me to more closely control/predict/script the player's experience, and take enemy AI out of the equation for the most part.

AI is getting better, and will continue to do so, however at the time when the decision was made I didn't want to create a predominantly air to air campaign.

 

The Jug allows me to include some fighter sweep missions as well, which the 365th actually flew, so I can take advantage of the Jug's diversity.

With the improving AI, I can readily take advantage of this while still creating a mostly ground pounding campaign.

 

All that said, the 352nd is near and dear to me and will be creating what should amount to many hours of content based on that squadron more or less at the same time.

I'll have more on that later. :)

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I would like to start brainstorming some ideas for a BoBP scripted campaign.

 

The 48th fighter group flying P47s out of St. Trond, A-92 would make a good campaign. They were in the thick of it for many months. I will keep looking for more potential scenarios.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I hate to bring it up but someone has got to do the Legend of Y-29.... I know it’s the 352nd FG, but without a doubt someone is going to do the

Move to the Continent with our Mustangs, I hate it here this tent sux, our boss just got waxed by our own AA, we’re gonna get those bastards, there they are get’ em Guys... story.

 

Just sayin’

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me this map is a dream proposition. Years ago I dreamed about having a Rhineland/North West Germany campaign and while we had a couple of more generic stand-ins... nothing replaces having something on a scale like is being done here.

 

I look at the map and all of the scenarios I can think of and it's all here on the map. Outstanding opportunities from the Y-29 Legend to fighter sweeps over Remagen and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

For me this map is a dream proposition. Years ago I dreamed about having a Rhineland/North West Germany campaign and while we had a couple of more generic stand-ins... nothing replaces having something on a scale like is being done here.

 

Right, so from the perspective of the simmers’ advocate, combat flight sim blogger, what would you like to see brought to the screen... or VR headset near you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Right, so from the perspective of the simmers’ advocate, combat flight sim blogger, what would you like to see brought to the screen... or VR headset near you?

 

For Bodenplatte or for after? I can probably write whole posts on those :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before and after. 1 day doesn’t make a scripted campaign. A month does.... or 2 weeks...😀

Edited by Jaegermeister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Before and after. 1 day doesn’t make a scripted campaign. A month does.... or 2 weeks...😀

 

Oh I see :)


I'd have to really think about a comprehensive list.

 

For the RAF in October you have the introduction of the Tempest in the front line and the story of that aircraft's introduction and development through the fall, winter and into the spring of 1945 is one of at least some legend. You have Tempests flying regular sorties against JG26 and their Dora's. The missions to cover the river crossing at Remagen is another legendary operation - though one fulfilled by many squadrons. The Me262 and Ar324 chase missions were something else as well.

 

For the USAAF there's the operations that Gambit21 is talking about. I particularly am interested in the tactical air combat that happened around the time of the Battle of the Bulge and the fighting around Bastonge. That's another big series of operations. Of course Bodenplatte itself is interesting and both RAF and USAAF units were heavily engaged in the fighting that day and in the days after.

 

There's a lot of day to day with this area. Tactical flying with chance encounters of tactical fighter units, enemy vehicles of all kinds, and some dreary weather mixed in with some of the exotic aircraft types that were coming out of Germany at the time (notably the 262) make this a really interesting period of history. One that I think offers fantastic gameplay potential but isn't always the go-to for air combat simmers.

 

Like I said, for me, this is a dream. There's a lot here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

For me this map is a dream proposition. Years ago I dreamed about having a Rhineland/North West Germany campaign and while we had a couple of more generic stand-ins... nothing replaces having something on a scale like is being done here.

 

I look at the map and all of the scenarios I can think of and it's all here on the map. Outstanding opportunities from the Y-29 Legend to fighter sweeps over Remagen and so forth.

 

I guess our well respected IL developer team knows what they're doing. Regarding map development it must be quite a job to recreate new 'Days of (g)Old' maps. Otherwise it might be simple as there are so many available. Modern Navigator stuff like TomTom goes back only a few months.

 

On 9/1/2019 at 6:18 AM, kitsunelegend said:

 

And what a map it is! I am so excited to see it in person, and to try and fly an A-20 all the way across it like I tried to do with Kuban when it was first released lol

I bet you guys are gonna be so happy once you're finally done with this huge map yeah? xD

 

I like the a20, but here's it's sibling, the a25 taking off in this video: https://youtu.be/YIIBo-eiuR4?t=509

Edited by jollyjack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jollyjack said:

the a25

A-26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Oh I see :)

 

 

Yeah, I’m obviously being a smart a$$ but that’s what I’m thinking too.

 

I believe the Battle of Aachen will be the first activity to address with USAAF groups to the south. Tactical aircraft being used as mobile artillery by both sides. House to house tank battles and such.

Then the Hürtgen Forest. Trying to find bunkers buried in the forest, not knowing where the target is. As you mentioned, scattered attacks behind enemy lines disrupting supply depots, troop staging and rail lines.

That would blend into the Ardennes counteroffensive and operation Bodenplatte.

Then on to the Rhine river and see what we can do with Remagen. Build a bridge maybe.

 

I found the following on Wikipedia regarding the Tempest going into operational service. @Jade_Monkey This could be a great opportunity for a scripted campaign. It seems to be well documented and the airbases and map areas are available....

 

122 Wing now consisted of 3 Sqn., 56 Sqn., 80 Sqn.274 Sqn. (to March 1945), and 486(NZ)Sqn. From 1 October 1944 122 Wing was based at B.80 Volkel Air Base near Uden, in the Netherlands. During the early phase of operations, the Tempest regularly emerged victorious and proved to be a difficult opponent for the Luftwaffe's Bf 109G and Fw 190 fighters to counter.

Armed reconnaissance missions were usually flown by two sections (eight aircraft), flying in finger-four formations, which would cross the front lines at altitudes of 7,000 to 8,000 feet: once the Tempests reached their allocated target area the lead section dropped to 4,000 feet or lower to search for targets to strafe, while the other section flew cover 1,000 feet higher and down sun. After the first section had carried out several attacks, it swapped places with the second section and the attacks continued until all ammunition had been exhausted, after which the Tempests would return to base at 8,000 ft. As many of the more profitable targets were usually some 250 miles from base, the Tempests typically carried two 45-gallon drop tanks which were turned on soon after takeoff.

 

Between October and December 1944, the Tempest was practically withdrawn from combat operations for overhaul work, as well as to allow operational pilots to train newcomers. The overhaul process involved the replacement or major servicing of their engines and the withdrawal of the limited number of aircraft which were equipped with spring-tabs; these increased manoeuvrability so much that there was a risk of damaging the airframe. In December 1944, upon the Tempest's reentry into service, the type had the twin tasks of the systematic destruction of the North German rail network along with all related targets of opportunity, and the maintenance of air supremacy within the North German theatre, searching for and destroying any high performance fighter or bomber aircraft of the Luftwaffe, whether in the air or on the ground.

 

In December 1944, a total of 52 German fighters were downed, 89 trains and countless military vehicles were destroyed, for the loss of 20 Tempests. Following the Luftwaffe'Operation Bodenplatte of 1 January 1945, 122 Wing bore the brunt of low- to medium-altitude fighter operations for the Second Tactical Air Force, which had fortuitously escaped being a victim of the extensive Bodenplatte raid, and had contributed to efforts to intercept the raiders. During this time, Spitfire XIVs of 125 and 126 Wings often provided medium- to high-altitude cover for the Tempests, which came under intense pressure, the wing losing 47 pilots in January. In February 1945, 33 and 222 Squadrons of 135 Wing converted from Spitfire Mk IXs and, in March, were joined by 274 Sqn. 135 Wing was based at B.77 Gilze-Rijen airfield in the Netherlands. The intensity of operations persisted throughout the remainder of the war.

 

This could take a long time...

 

Edited by Jaegermeister
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read the wiki article listed above and it doesn't even list the 352ndFG having been at Y29. I have pictures of the base and have talked to pilots stationed there during the "Legend".   I hope the rest of that article is more accurate than the portion listing Y29. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

I’m planning on doing a 370th FG lightning campaign from Florennnes A-78 if you want to brainstorm with me on that. 😁

 

There were at least 2 P-38 squadrons and a black widow night fighter squadron there from September ‘44 until early ‘45. I won’t be covering that entire time period, or at least not in one go around.

 

My first search for information on advance landing grounds was here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Landing_Ground

 

That site lists all the ALGs and which groups were posted there on what dates

 

I'm totally in for a Night figther campaign!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LF_Gallahad said:

I'm totally in for a Night figther campaign!

 

No chance for a B109 to hide in the sun .. now where's my night-vision unit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

First, the "Hell Hawks" book by Dorr and Jones - that book is packed with information - a great read.

It lays out a nice, very historical mission progression.

 

It is a nice book - I have read it 5 years ago, or so.

Do you have "Thunderbolts of the Hell Hawks" by Barnes, Crump and Sutherland?

 

 

Two other gems for the connaisseurs (both by Peter Celis):

- Runways to Victory

- Fighters over the Ardennes

 

@Jaegermeister is there any chance you'll extend the P-38 campaign into the P-51D age with the 370th?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

It is a nice book - I have read it 5 years ago, or so.

Do you have "Thunderbolts of the Hell Hawks" by Barnes, Crump and Sutherland?

 

 

Two other gems for the connaisseurs (both by Peter Celis):

- Runways to Victory

- Fighters over the Ardennes

 

 

I don't have those - I’ll look for them.

Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got these John Foreman books last week, so I might do something with the RAF, or swqitch sides and do something for the Luftwaffe as most people are going to make Allied campaigns (understandably, since it's the novelty and there is good documentation).

 

5a79f222b9b0da0001c51159_FC%20War%20Diar5a79f23379d68e0001d16e84_FC%20War%20Diar5a79f2df79d68e0001d16f38_FCCLAIMSVOL3CMY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still need a list of leading British Aces for our time frame. Sept. 44- April 45 for the Career. If anyone can provide that I would appreciate it. We need it for the periodic newspaper. I have the American ace list.

 

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

I still need a list of leading British Aces for our time frame. Sept. 44- April 45 for the Career. If anyone can provide that I would appreciate it. We need it for the periodic newspaper. I have the American ace list.

 

Jason

 

Jason, I sent you a PM with information from that book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

image.thumb.png.788154d1335eef34caa3c143be25332d.png

 

This is my rough estimate of length of Kuban Area (322.4km) vs the length of Western Front Area (470km). It's about 1 and 1/3 times the length alone. She'll be a chunky one alright.

 

I measured the length of WFA as best I could on google maps referencing the linear forest and those to the east of it in the northeast (the east map border cuts Hannover), and a rough guestimate on the French coastline near dunkirk (it should be visible from the western map border).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...