WOW

[pa4tim]

After long hesitations caused by comments on forums and Youtube I bought FC.

 

I first tried RoF because almost everybody says it is as good or even better. I also have dawn of flight in 1946, that is fun because there are so many planes but that is a bit to much 1990's graphics. 

 

One thing was clear, I do like flying those WW1 planes although It is much harder as I thought. F. I It is funny to fly in a plane that refuses to turn if there is a stiff side-wind. They have a lot of character.

 

I finally choose FC for most because I can fly on all my maps and I do not need to switch or reboot anything. I even can fight to WW2 planes. And I have my flight controls set-up optimized for IL-2. I like IL-2 BOX a lot and FC is for most just some extra planes so I knew that was no risk. 

 

But my hopes were not high (work in progress, the negative things I heard, how great RoF is, or some even preferred Dawn of flight etc) but after a few short rundowns (start, taxi, take off, fly and (crash)-land) through all the planes  I must say :

WOW, those birds are gorgeous. 

And I liked how they behaved in the short test flights. The slower speeds make it a bit more easy to practice landings so maybe they are good for training flight skills too.

[No.23_Triggers]

Welcome! There's nothing quite like the old WW1 birds

[BMA_Hellbender]

Welcome!

 

4 hours ago, pa4tim said:

But my hopes were not high (work in progress, the negative things I heard, how great RoF is, or some even preferred Dawn of flight etc) but after a few short rundowns (start, taxi, take off, fly and (crash)-land) through all the planes  I must say :

WOW, those birds are gorgeous. 

And I liked how they behaved in the short test flights. The slower speeds make it a bit more easy to practice landings so maybe they are good for training flight skills too.

 

The community here is very critical and quick to point out the rough edges, but that's really thanks to how passionate we are about these old birds.

 

It's absolutely true that they are excellent training machines, and there are plenty of real life pilots here (including ones who fly something bigger than a Cessna) who rave about the feeling of flight.

 

Also, stay awhile and listen come fly with us! Multiplayer can be a daunting experience at first, though incredibly rewarding in the long run, especially if you fly together with other people.

[pa4tim]

I have not played MP. I only ever played WoT and I got sick of all the toxic things.  I then played WT tanks because it was more like a sim. A bit less toxic but I did not like the very popular spawnsniping and I wanted more simulation and things like missions instead of "kill them all in 6 minutes". instead of "balanced arcade games with a sim flavor"  So I came here for TC ( because it was a sim and had a SP option) and to my surprise I liked planes even more. And to my even bigger surprise I liked the old stuff even more (Although I could have known that because I like old cars too (I have one from 1936) 

So I am a bit cautious regarding MP mode. I am not competitive,  I am more the type that wants to play as realistic as possible, even if that means loosing. In WT I played RB with SB settings and drove most times using the driver cam, I never used the 3rd person view and only used the historical correct gunner views with parallax error. And no things like jumping tanks or the stupid things like sidescraping, etc. The best way to end at the bottom of the list and a lot of people do not see the fun of that. 

Besides that, I am still learning to fly so I will not be a useful contribution other then easy victim and letting the team down.  

[J2_Jakob]

30 minutes ago, pa4tim said:

I have not played MP. I only ever played WoT and I got sick of all the toxic things.  I then played WT tanks because it was more like a sim. A bit less toxic but I did not like the very popular spawnsniping and I wanted more simulation and things like missions instead of "kill them all in 6 minutes". instead of "balanced arcade games with a sim flavor"  So I came here for TC ( because it was a sim and had a SP option) and to my surprise I liked planes even more. And to my even bigger surprise I liked the old stuff even more

 

Been there, done that. ? Then I discovered RoF and flew there for some years, but since FC was released, I haven't looked back.

ATM without proper map there is no serious MP server for FC. Also, two-seaters have arrived only a while ago. So there's only a few servers for quick fun or practice. (Give J5's server a go... Even when it's empty, there's some AI flying and perhaps you will attract attention and more people will join... Usually friendly fellows there.) I believe when the map is finally here, we will see proper MP server with realistic scenarios and maybe dynamic MP campaign soon after.

(BTW, this Community is incomparable to WoT/WT)

[BMA_Hellbender]

2 hours ago, pa4tim said:

I have not played MP. I only ever played WoT and I got sick of all the toxic things.  I then played WT tanks because it was more like a sim. A bit less toxic but I did not like the very popular spawnsniping and I wanted more simulation and things like missions instead of "kill them all in 6 minutes". instead of "balanced arcade games with a sim flavor"  So I came here for TC ( because it was a sim and had a SP option) and to my surprise I liked planes even more. And to my even bigger surprise I liked the old stuff even more (Although I could have known that because I like old cars too (I have one from 1936) 

So I am a bit cautious regarding MP mode. I am not competitive,  I am more the type that wants to play as realistic as possible, even if that means loosing. In WT I played RB with SB settings and drove most times using the driver cam, I never used the 3rd person view and only used the historical correct gunner views with parallax error. And no things like jumping tanks or the stupid things like sidescraping, etc. The best way to end at the bottom of the list and a lot of people do not see the fun of that. 

Besides that, I am still learning to fly so I will not be a useful contribution other then easy victim and letting the team down.  

 

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences.

 

I'm not going to lie to you, you're going to find all those things you didn't like about WT, and worse. Toxicity, spawnsniping, arcade-like scenarios where all you must do is kill everyone, while it will look like everyone is out to get you, personally. You're going to be ganged up by squadrons who play as a team, who have far better situational awareness than you (we'll get back to this in a minute) and, to add insult to injury, are flying better planes than yours. Or perhaps worse planes, if that makes it more humilitating to you. That's all here in plentiful quantity.

 

 

So, if you haven't run away screaming by now, why should you even bother giving it a try?

 

Well, a couple of reasons:

 

1. At its very core, it's still a sim and most people here treat it as such. I'm very much of the opinion that anyone should use every trick in the book to turn the fight to their advantage, which some will definitely interpret as "gaming the game" (especially two-seaters, those are the worst), but we're still all governed by the same rules. There's no gamey unlocks or stats and ladders that really matter, beyond what matters to you personally. At the end of the day, we're all equals. It's not all kumbaya around the campfire, and it doesn't have to be, but if you're here it means you like flying WWI birds and you're one of us.
    
2. Situational awareness (SA). That's the name of the game. No matter what happens, no matter how awful you are at lining up a shot, landing a plane or even flying in a straight line, your SA is going to improve. You're probably not going to become an ace overnight (though there are shortcuts), but you are going to learn through trial and error, right to the point where you understand why you lose. Why you got bounced, why you got into a fight you couldn't win, etc. In real life, people died for their mistakes. In here, without fail, you learn. It's no different from any other game or sport. When you understand the different flying styles and experience flying alone vs. flying as part of a team, then you can really decide for yourself whether you'd like to be competitive or not. It's absolutely fine if you're just in it for a bit of fun, and unless you truly go out of your way to hamper your team by being an a-hole, no one is going to think any less of you. Flying angry to be the top dog is a pretty bad long-term strategy, since everyone has bad days where he can't hit the broadside of a barn. If you log off at the end of the night and you feel like you had fun and you learned something, then you won.
    
3. Finally, and I hope I don't come off as some kind of recruiter for a cult (fair warning: this is a cult), you're kind of a big deal. As in: WWI is a niche, within the niche that is flightsims. The community is small and passionate and sometimes very set in their ways about what is wrong and what is right, and who is the sad little king of his sad little hill. In a closed system, entropy increases. In a closed communiy, toxicity increases. The only way to fight that is to have people such as yourself (re)discovering the genre.

 

Before I end my long rant, I should warn you that multiplayer isn't incredibly active at the moment. Summer has always been a quiet period for this, but if you join an FC server during the evening hours (Flying Circus Flugpark of Jasta 5, GCF's server, OG's server...), even when it's empty, someone is bound to join sooner rather than later. That's good enough for a few quick scraps. In the meantime you can practice on the AI that flies around. There's also regular dogfighting events on Friday and Sunday nights. Again, all of this should get fairly more active starting September, and even more so when we get the actual map and final release of the game.

 

There's also a few resources to help you on the way.

 

• @SYN_Requiem's YouTube channel is the single best source on the internet for learning to fly these machines.
  
  He's got videos up for all the planes in the game (not counting the two-seaters who were just released), which should help you at least get your bearings in the air.

   

  https://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS/videos

   

  If you have no idea where to start, I recommend the Fokker D.VII or the S.E.5a
   

  
   

  
  
   

• Once you're up and running and have given multiplayer a first go, have a look at this Multiplayer Aircraft Guide, which I maintain along with @J2_Trupobaw. It's more of an opinion piece rather than an objective source of information. Treat it as you would any other game guide you can find online. Eventually you will form your own opinions, though we still believe it's better for someone new to have a guide that is often wrong, than to have no guide at all.
   

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read all this and hope to fly with you soon!

 

S!

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by J5_Hellbender

[pa4tim]

12 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

Thanks for taking the time to read all this and hope to fly with you soon!

 

Thank you for making this comprehensive post. I will try some MP in the future (first I must learn to fly) 

 

That guide will come in handy.  

I had already  watched all requiem videos about FC planes. I have a small notebook in which I write down all plane specs needed in flight. I have it on a stand on my "cockpit" For most planes the in-game data is sufficient but for FC planes it is very hard to find game related info (like about controls, max RPM or special functions etc). 

 

Yesterday I played all of them in QB's. Me alone against  8 enemies. That was so much fun.

I like (very) close to ground flying and that is a blast in WW1 planes in the hills of Kuban.  Chasing planes between the trees and going over a hill top to to loose bandits on your 6. They are very maneuverable. I had to learn that the landing gear is always down because you have a problem if it hits tree tops. One time I hit some tree top and it is really done very nice how you crash and them "tumble" down between the trees.  Shooting planes down is much harder. I have to learn estimating the lead distance at these low speeds. I know I have to learn BnZ but I have so much fun chasing planes around in a turn fight. This is so intense compared to BnZ. 

I found a very weird thing. I spawned at 200m and while the enemy approached,  4 of them suddenly disappeared at the same moment and a few others were sometimes suddenly stationary.  I think  the stationary ones were stuck between the trees  (but I could not direct see them ) I have no clue about the 4 that disappeared at the same time)  When I spawned at 1000 meter all was fine. Maybe 200m was below the deck.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by pa4tim

[ShamrockOneFive]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:13 AM, pa4tim said:

But my hopes were not high (work in progress, the negative things I heard, how great RoF is, or some even preferred Dawn of flight etc) but after a few short rundowns (start, taxi, take off, fly and (crash)-land) through all the planes  I must say :

WOW, those birds are gorgeous. 

And I liked how they behaved in the short test flights. The slower speeds make it a bit more easy to practice landings so maybe they are good for training flight skills too.

 

This is the struggle of flight sims and it seems the IL-2 series in particular that has had to overcome, multiple times, some bad press by either critical fans or people who don't really quite get flight simming to begin with. The critical fans I can get behind because I've been critical in the past as well but the passion that goes behind it doesn't always translate to someone coming into the series so all you see are the overly harsh comments and none of just how good things are.

 

Glad you were able to get beyond them and join in! FC has a way to go still but it doesn't mean that you can't have a lot of fun right now!

[pa4tim]

Because I already had other parts of BOX I knew what to expects and that it, now or in future, must be/come good. I have no history in games or sims. (only WoT/WT)

 

You are right, it is hard to get the right picture because it is a niche, then there is the free2play against the pay2play battle. The first hating everything and for-most anyone who does not mind spending money.  As a newby the biggest thing that stopped me from trying IL-2 planes at first was the complicated controls, many key-combinations and very bad documentation. 

I also have DCS, but only the free part and I installed it at the time I only had TC, this because their very good documentation and clickable cockpits.  But even with that documentation it is very difficult to start simming planes. In IL-2 it is a lot more easy to control a plane for a beginner thanks to the fact that you can choose between manual or auto-functions.  I never managed to get the P51 flying and stopped trying after I bought BOX. Yesterday I tried again just to see if I could do it now (after learning a lot in IL-2), and it turned out I had already learned enough in IL-2 to get it in the air and land it.  

 

I think IL-2 can sell a lot more if they do some serious work on the documentation side. The (most community made) doc is hidden in topics on this forum. A lot is outdated too. I choose IL-2 because I already had TC so the extra maps would also be usable for tanks too. 

 

I also have IL-2 1946 and I like it too. But I only play the Jet age and the rest so now and then for fun (because all the strange planes) 

 

I also have ROF because everybody here always talks about it and it is indeed far from bad but FC the FC graphics are just better and you get 10 nice planes that I can fly on all BOX maps instead of 3 planes on one small map and most things do not work unless you buy the other planes. I all ready had BOX so that was an easy choise. 

 

 

 

 

[J37_Daedallus]

On 8/2/2019 at 9:56 AM, pa4tim said:

I found a very weird thing. I spawned at 200m and while the enemy approached,  4 of them suddenly disappeared at the same moment and a few others were sometimes suddenly stationary.  I think  the stationary ones were stuck between the trees  (but I could not direct see them ) I have no clue about the 4 that disappeared at the same time)  When I spawned at 1000 meter all was fine. Maybe 200m was below the deck.

 

Hi pa4tim

 

You are right, 200m maybe too low for the spawn points in that area, but maybe ok where the land is flat in a different area. If you like that area, just experiment with the height  setting until both enemy flights are flying just above the trees, if that's what you want.

 

A more complicated but in the end worthwhile way is to use the mission editor, there are a number of good videos and guides around, and you will end up being able  to set up your own missions where each plane can have its own skin, skill level, height, scarves, weapons etc

 

Also a good tip someone gave me was to record the tracks of your flying, to watch back and see where you went wrong or got it right, especially good with getting your lead right, you can watch the replay in slomo to see where your bullets went.

 

Hope to see you in MP soon 

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

This thread is a much more productive place to spend ones time than other threads involving navel gazing, crystal balls and divining rods, and therapy sessions.

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, pa4tim said:

Because I already had other parts of BOX I knew what to expects and that it, now or in future, must be/come good. I have no history in games or sims. (only WoT/WT)

 

You are right, it is hard to get the right picture because it is a niche, then there is the free2play against the pay2play battle. The first hating everything and for-most anyone who does not mind spending money.  As a newby the biggest thing that stopped me from trying IL-2 planes at first was the complicated controls, many key-combinations and very bad documentation.  

I also have DCS, but only the free part and I installed it at the time I only had TC, this because their very good documentation and clickable cockpits.  But even with that documentation it is very difficult to start simming planes. In IL-2 it is a lot more easy to control a plane for a beginner thanks to the fact that you can choose between manual or auto-functions.  I never managed to get the P51 flying and stopped trying after I bought BOX. Yesterday I tried again just to see if I could do it now (after learning a lot in IL-2), and it turned out I had already learned enough in IL-2 to get it in the air and land it.   

  

I think IL-2 can sell a lot more if they do some serious work on the documentation side. The (most community made) doc is hidden in topics on this forum. A lot is outdated too. I choose IL-2 because I already had TC so the extra maps would also be usable for tanks too.  

  

I also have IL-2 1946 and I like it too. But I only play the Jet age and the rest so now and then for fun (because all the strange planes) 

 

I also have ROF because everybody here always talks about it and it is indeed far from bad but FC the FC graphics are just better and you get 10 nice planes that I can fly on all BOX maps instead of 3 planes on one small map and most things do not work unless you buy the other planes. I all ready had BOX so that was an easy choise.  

  

 

Tutorials and training is one of the most difficult parts of the experience and its not an issue strictly limited to IL-2. I've found similar issues with DCS World and X-Plane and it comes down to developer time that just doesn't exist to do the extra bit to get training going AND keep it up to date. Eagle Dynamics has tried over the year's but its been nearly impossible for them or their third party devs to keep the training missions working over the long haul. Some of them were turned into videos and just left that way.

 

For all of those series the best place to go is YouTube and user generated content. For IL-2 it's Requiem's absolutely brilliant Air Combat Tutorial Library:

https://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS

 

He's got tutorials on everything that flies in this sim or if its not there he's busy generating it. There are others but the basics are here.

[pa4tim]

Yes, I know and watch his very good videos. But I am not even talking about tutorials.

 

The user-manuals DCS makes per plane (I think they are the one who makes them) are very nice but a bit overkill. They tell you how to use it, start it etc. After I bought the JU-52 in IL-2 I had no clue how to control it and also YT videos did not help because nobody told how to set up your controls. And that is the only thing I do not like about IL-2. The whole keybindings thing. The most important thing because it is your 1:1 connection to the planes. 

 

There nowhere is (I could find) even something that comes close to how to use them and what every function does. Some descriptions are just wrong so very hard to implement them correct. And there are bugs (like I use the E not for starting an engine but the orange squares tells me I do.

 

And that is a real problem for FC. I keep damaging and overheating engines (if they are not damaged the first 30 seconds by the first round fired in my direction even if they shoot me from behind) . I stay well under the rpm's Requiem states, I tried all controls I can think of but I seem to do something wrong. Even in manual controls I never overheat my WW2 planes. 

And that info is known by the DEV because they implemented them.

 

It should be their job to provide that information. And it is less work and much more easy to write down instead of the little story about the history and all the specs they give in the game itself (what I do appreciate) They should state every user operational function of that model in there too. Something like model A has user operational throttle, mixture, parkingbrake etc. Things like: The wheel brakes are bound internal to the rudder binding or that you need to bind them yourself etc. And just use the terms used in the control menu, not the key it has on default.

I found out by accident I can turn some periscopes in TC but I still have no clue how to implement that in a usable way (because I can not find a way how to nestle the pilot to the periscope/visor) The Devs must know, they implemented it) In a WW2 plane I can not nestle the guns because then the camera goes about 10 meters outside the plane. In FC I have no clue how to use the optional guns on a plane (forgot what plane) If I nestle they only point up max and if I do not they shoot to something but I do not know where. I can not find out how to aim them. And I can go on and on. Probably just me doing it wrong but without any documentation I do not know what I do wrong. I only play IL-2, Sometimes DCS and ROF and so now and then still some WT. I never played other games. I noticed the controls in all those games follow a bit the same pattern so I now sometimes look up how it is implemented there and then try to port that to IL-2  I can ask it the community but I already ask so much. And at the end over time I will probably find out things but I think it will scare away people. They have the luxury that people who bought it will go to the trouble of finding a solution or ask here. But I thinik that if it was a free2play game people move on to the next game.  With the right set-up this game becomes so much more fun.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by pa4tim

[J2_Jakob]

19 hours ago, pa4tim said:

It should be their job to provide that information. And it is less work and much more easy to write down instead of the little story about the history and all the specs they give in the game itself (what I do appreciate) They should state every user operational function of that model in there too.

 

And they did that. Load a quick mission and then press "O" to display the briefing/map screen. There you should see a table on the right side with two tabs (if it's hidden, you'll find an arrow icon on the right side of the screen, that will display this tab if clicked). The first tab provides some historical information about the selected aircraft, second tab called "Specification" goes through all the controls and technical specs of that aircraft. There you can get all the information you need, ie. if it has manually controlled radiator, mixture etc. (The Specification tab is available also just before you hit "Start" on the hangar screen, where you can make last-minute adjustmens in case you forgot to set up anything like mods/fuel/skin etc.) You just won't see the actual key bindings that you need. But it should give you a good idea what to look for in the Settings.

Edited August 6, 2019 by J2_Jakob

[pa4tim]

Let me reformulate, I knew that tab, I was referring to it in the part you quoted, they tell for some functions the user can control them but not how.

 

Real example: Spitfire IX Water and oil radiators are automatic but there is a special manual mode that forces radiator shutters to open completely. Then we look in the control section under engine and then you must set a separate key for oil radiators shutters control axis and one for water radiators control axis. But that does not work because it is still in auto mode. You need to bind a key to switch oil radiators control mode: manual/auto. And the same for water. That are 6 keys. And if you have a bit knowledge about engines you can figure it out by your self, but there is a lot to figure out in sims and not everybody can figure it out.

Better was:

 

Water and oil radiators are automatic but there is a special manual mode that forces radiator shutters to open completely use the following keybind functions:

use for oil:       one key for "oil radiators control mode: manual/auto" and then two keys for the "oil radiators shutters control axis" to open and close the shutters

use for  water: one key for "water radiators control mode: manual/auto" and then two keys for the "water radiators shutters control axis" 

And if there are extra conditions they should state that too. F.I the above only works if set both keys to manual they should state: This only works if you set both "oil radiators control mode: manual/auto" and "water radiators control mode: manual/auto" to manual. 

Even better would be the possibility to save control setups so you can load them per plane like you can in DCS and WarThunder. (I would fly tante ju a lot more if I could do that) 

 

For tanks it is even worse.

 

Or look at FC planes. I can add a radio or camera to some planes. For what ? How do I operate them .

Or take the Bristols. There is nothing mentioned about any manual controls. It turns out to have a stabilisator, water and mixture controls. That is a bit strange because non of the specs they give you talks about water or a stabilisator. If I not had a special keyboard with all functions labeled I would not have found that. 

 

And then there are all the cameras, pilot head movements and gunner control keys and axis. I spend many hours figuring out what they do and there are several I still have no clue about what some do. 

 

And TC turret control, aim control and visor controls are even worse. They added a repair function but I had no clue it was there and how to operate it. (turns out you need to stop the engine and open a hatch (use the commander, the tank can do everything without him,  because he probably gets killed)

 

Is it so strange somebody spends a lot of money on a sim that is the best fun if you can use it optimal,  but the maker does not provides a user-manual how to use it. 

 

Do not misunderstand me, I love this game and how the devs share  what they are doing and this is the only thing that I do not like. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by pa4tim

[BMA_Hellbender]

User manuals for sims are a bit of a thing of the past. Players figuring out things for themselves and sharing relevant information on forums, YouTube and other social media is what they call "emergent gameplay" nowadays.

 

That said, the game would definitely benefit from a wiki.

[J2_Jakob]

@pa4tim Agreed, there are a lot of things that could be more user-friendly. I've spent a few hours scrolling through key bindings myself. ? Furthermore, the Specs for FC planes are pure copy/paste from RoF, where they hadn't yet adopted the BoX style of at least pointing out distinct aircraft features.

[pa4tim]

Tonight I was giving the P47 a trial again. I can not handle that thing. I do not last more as 30 seconds.  Frustrated I switched to my beloved Fokker D VIIF but forgot to switch the enemy so I faced the Lagg3. And that was big fun. Fought 3 duels and every time I managed to kill the Lagg3. These WWI birds are great. They outturn everything, are so slow that the enemy passes you before they even can aim. 

[Gretsch_Man]

On 8/1/2019 at 5:13 PM, pa4tim said:

After long hesitations caused by comments on forums and Youtube I bought FC.
 

WOW, those birds are gorgeous. 

Same here. After sitting on the fence for quite some time, I finally got FC just yesterday.

 

Well, I heartly second your statement - WOW indeed! Gotta add that I play in VR and boy what a ride FC is. 

 

I sincerly hope that vol.1 is going to sell well so that we might see vol.2 coming with a full blown carrer mode eventually.

 

A big THANK YOU to the devs!