Pacific theatre

[BlitzPig_EL]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

 

 

What is missing? What is this show stopper you are seeing? 

 

The ability to have realistic numbers of units, be they aircraft, ships, or ground units, on any map of the size needed to portray the Pacific, or say, the Allied bomber offensive in Europe.

[Stoopy]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

What is missing? 

 

Corporate Buy-In.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Redwo1f said:

 

LMAO - so true!

[Voyager]

8 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

The ability to have realistic numbers of units, be they aircraft, ships, or ground units, on any map of the size needed to portray the Pacific, or say, the Allied bomber offensive in Europe.

 

At this point, that seems to be an AI issue rather than a core engine issue, or at least I'm expecting that the AI and the other engines are loosely enough coupled that a major AI revision is not going to require major overhauls of the various other game engines in turn. 

 

Just now, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Corporate Buy-In.

 

 

 Sorry, can't help you there... ?

[Ribbon]

14 minutes ago, Redwo1f said:

...flight stick, as you dive into carrier!

Famous IJN proverb ?

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

What about a couple of planes to start preparing the Pacific?

What planes mainly in the PTO also made it to Europe?

Wildcats for instance.

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

What about a couple of planes to start preparing the Pacific?

What planes mainly in the PTO also made it to Europe?

 

 

This is what "1C Maddox Games" did back in 2003: they just created a small fictional Pacific map (a few islands) and two flyable planes, the Zero and the Wildcat. A simple patch. One year later, in 2004, Pacific Fighters saw the light of day.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

6 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

This is what "1C Maddox Games" did back in 2003: they just created a small fictional Pacific map (a few islands) and two flyable planes, the Zero and the Wildcat. A simple patch. One year later, in 2004, Pacific Fighters saw the light of day.

 

This would do for me until the real expansion comes. But we need sth. It would be a great teaser. 

[namhee2]

6 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

This is what "1C Maddox Games" did back in 2003: they just created a small fictional Pacific map (a few islands) and two flyable planes, the Zero and the Wildcat. A simple patch. One year later, in 2004, Pacific Fighters saw the light of day.

First not the Wildcat but the P51and the Pacific map came later

[343KKT_Kintaro]

4 minutes ago, namhee2 said:

First not the Wildcat but the P51and the Pacific map came later

 

Are you sure ?

 

I think that this 2003 patch was named 1.2b, and that it allowed to fly at least two Japanese planes : A6M Zero and Ki-84 Hayate.

 

The above has been recorded at the time by the guys who founded my squadron in November 2003.

 

Edit : that patch 1.2b DID include the small fictional islands map.

Edited December 2, 2019 by 343KKT_Kintaro

[namhee2]

2 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

Are you sure ?

 

I think that this 2003 patch was named 1.2b, and that it allowed to fly at least two Japanese planes : A6M Zero and Ki-84 Hayate.

 

The above has been recorded at the time by the guys who founded my squadron in November 2003.

I can still remember how I used the Crimean Map and Palm trees to create a small Pacific atmosphere to fly the Zero

[Ribbon]

With upcoming Air Marshall it would be a blast flying carrier ops in MP.

 

[danielprates]

3 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I do not expect any Pacific/Asia map for that game before 2023, 2024 or even a later date.

 

Imagine having a new thread like this every two weeks or so, until 2023/2024.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Damn! I am trying to find info about what PTO planes made it to the ETO but I cannot find a good source ... 

[Megalax]

29 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

What about a couple of planes to start preparing the Pacific?

What planes mainly in the PTO also made it to Europe?

Wildcats for instance.

 

 

Serious?

P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47,B-25, A-20

 

Battle of New Guinea already has half it's planeset.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Megalax

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

2 minutes ago, Megalax said:

 

Serious?

P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47,B-25.

 

Battle of New Guinea already has half it's planeset.

 

ok, but I am thinking more of Wildcats, Avengers, Hellcats, Corsairs, Devastators, Dauntless,  etc 

Edited December 2, 2019 by =gRiJ=Roman-

[Ribbon]

7 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

Imagine having a new thread like this every two weeks or so, until 2023/2024.

This one is from June

Don't worry, no new pto threads will emerge, we'll keep this one alive, until 2024.....and beyond!

It will surpass DD thread?

Edited December 2, 2019 by EAF_Ribbon

[343KKT_Kintaro]

9 minutes ago, namhee2 said:

I can still remember how I used the Crimean Map and Palm trees to create a small Pacific atmosphere to fly the Zero

 

Interesting, as it is contradictory with my source. Don't you remember the Ki-84 Hayate? (only reasonnable oponent for a P-51). What was the Zero variant? A6M5?

 

 

3 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

With upcoming Air Marshall it would be a blast flying carrier ops in MP.

 

 

No need of a Pacific provisory patch if it brings fictional islands that will clash with the prestigious maps that have been made til now

 

 

2 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

Imagine having a new thread like this every two weeks or so, until 2023/2024.

You're right.

 

 

2 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Damn! I am trying to find info about what PTO planes made it to the ETO but I cannot find a good source ... 

Good luck. And be patient...

 

 

2 minutes ago, Megalax said:

 

Serious?

P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47,B-25, A-20

 

Battle of New Guinea already has half it's planeset.

Variants have to be accurate. Remember: different theatre of operations, sometimes different variants.

 

 

1 minute ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

ok, but I am thinking more of Wildcats, Avengers, Hellcats, Corsairs, Devastators, Dauntless,  etc 

And Zeros, Betties, Rufes, Vals, Kates, Francks, Tonies, etc.

 

 

2 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

This one is from June

Don't worry, no new pto threads will emerge, we'll keep this one alive, until 2024

FOR SURE ?

[Megalax]

1 minute ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

 

ok, but I am thinking more of Wildcats, Avengers, Hellcats, Corsairs, Devastators, etc 

 

Most of those were used by the FAA aboard their carriers in Europe.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, Megalax said:

 

Most of those were used by the FAA aboard their carriers in Europe.

 

Really? Not joking?

[Megalax]

1 minute ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

Really? Not joking?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Cool ! Thx for that info !

[Megalax]

[=621=Samikatz]

If I was a gambling person I'd put money on the main roadblock being limited documentation for Japanese aircraft in the detail they need. Sure you could sacrifice fidelity and use some guess work but I don't think this team want that in their sim, and why do one theatre approximately when you can do another faithfully? I'm sure you've all seen that free to play game's efforts at Japanese aircraft where there's holes in the cockpit and the text on the dashboards is just random squiggles, not even actual japanese characters

 

AI needs work but it's clear they have somebody chipping away at that. A bunch of the other assumed engine limits were lifted in the past couple years, I'm sure that's surmountable too, be it with AI only versions of bombers with simple FMs/DMs, merging the gunner AIs into one with the firing arcs of the guns being the limiter, etc. Just takes time and effort and regular paychecks for the programmers so they don't up and leave

[343KKT_Kintaro]

One of those Hellcats is a wreck on the bottom of the Meditarrenean. A bunch of them were left to the French when the war ended, and one of them, in the late 50s or 60s, touched the water with her propeller. The engine stopped… and the pilot "landed" on the water. He survived, but the aircraft was lost. Now it's a wreck for scuba divers.

 

Samikatz, yes you're right. No problem with that. But "Pacific Fighters" and the 1946 "Complete Edition" also were published by sacrificing fidelity. It's better than nothing.

Edited December 2, 2019 by 343KKT_Kintaro
orthography

[7.GShAP/Silas]

: (

 

 

 

Sigh.  I was really hoping.  We'll see what Jason says. Anyway, better a man carrying a torch than no man at all.

[TWC_Ace]

No pacific theatre no stutters in MP fix, here goes my simming...maybe forever this time. It will be whats written.

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by =VARP=Tvrdi

[Enceladus828]

A question I'd ask is for Pacific Fighters, how and where did 1C Maddox get the info for the Japanese planes, ships, etc. And yes, PF lacked torpedo bombers, Japanese and American ships like battleships, some cruisers (though some have been added to SAS, and hopefully TD will add them), etc. In the recent years, TD has added flyable B5N2, Ki-45, and early N1K in IL-2 1946. However, most likely 1C Maddox and TD had/have more developers than 1CGS.

 

I am hopeful that in the near future the devs can get all the necessary resources to make their PTO a very fun and entertaining installment; hopefully after BON.

 

Cheers.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

6 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

A question I'd ask is for Pacific Fighters, how and where did 1C Maddox get the info for the Japanese planes, ships, etc. And yes, PF lacked torpedo bombers, Japanese and American ships like battleships, some cruisers (though some have been added to SAS, and hopefully TD will add them), etc. In the recent years, TD has added flyable B5N2, Ki-45, and early N1K in IL-2 1946. However, most likely 1C Maddox and TD had/have more developers than 1CGS.

 

I am hopeful that in the near future the devs can get all the necessary resources to make their PTO a very fun and entertaining installment; hopefully after BON.

 

Cheers.

 

 

"A question I'd ask is for Pacific Fighters, how and where did 1C Maddox get the info for the Japanese planes, ships, etc."

 

The original sim was released in 2001 and "Pacific Fighters" is 2004. Thus three years were sufficient to release a standalone game set in the Pacific. BUT… that was back in the early 2000s. Now it's different because apparently it takes "a bit" more time to develop aircraft, ships, maps, etc.

 

"And yes, PF lacked torpedo bombers, Japanese and American ships like battleships, some cruisers (though some have been added to SAS"

 

Absolutely not. At least the 2006 "IL-2 Complete Edition" (aka "IL-2 1946") included torpedo bombers, dive bombers, fleet carriers, escort carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines... I remember me in 2007 sinking online one American destroyer with a torpedo dropped from my Nakajima B5N. We also reenacted the sinking of the "Prince of Wales" and the "Repulse" flying our G4Ms... (December 1941).

 

"In the recent years, TD has added flyable B5N2, Ki-45, and early N1K in IL-2 1946"

 

No no no no no… Not "in recent years". All of this is within "1946" since the second half of the 2000s.

 

"However, most likely 1C Maddox and TD had/have more developers than 1CGS"

 

No idea… may be...

 

"I am hopeful that in the near future the devs can get all the necessary resources to make their PTO a very fun and entertaining installment; hopefully after BON"

 

Our PTO module will be ready when it will be ready. Not after. Not before.

 

"Cheers"

 

Cheerio!

 

 

[danielprates]

9 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

I was accused of single handedly trying to bankrupt not only BOX, but the entire flightsim industry itself.

 

This forum will do that.

 

It will also try to shoot down your suggestions under the "too much CPU usage" argument, whilst suggesting all sorts of things regardless of "CPU usage".

[VBF-12_Pequod]

17 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

And yes, PF lacked torpedo bombers

 

I think he meant USN torpedo-bombers. There were no flyable TBD or TBF in old IL-2. They made them flyable thorugh mods though, but cockpits were a franken mix of Corsair and Buffalo cockpits IIRC.

[Ribbon]

Reading one thread on Steam complaining about il2GB prices one poster did make an interesting observation;

He said that over-complexity, high prices and something else drifted away part of the players and not dragging in new ones making flight simms more niche than it was 20years ago.

Maybe he's right since then flight sims were more user friendly and easier, plausing to wider audience.

 

Even tho i highly prefer il2GB complexity of FM and DM and historical accuracy i would buy and play remake of il2:Pacific fighters with Great Battles graphics and VR implemetation never mind being less realistic....until we get PTO in il2GB.

 

So maybe that would be a good project for 3rd party studio and good revenue for 777/1C.

Having a lighter version aka remake of old il2 with new graphics and VR while being a good intro for more advanced il2GB.

Edited December 4, 2019 by EAF_Ribbon

[=621=Samikatz]

21 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

A question I'd ask is for Pacific Fighters, how and where did 1C Maddox get the info for the Japanese planes, ships, etc. And yes, PF lacked torpedo bombers, Japanese and American ships like battleships, some cruisers (though some have been added to SAS, and hopefully TD will add them), etc. In the recent years, TD has added flyable B5N2, Ki-45, and early N1K in IL-2 1946. However, most likely 1C Maddox and TD had/have more developers than 1CGS.

 

I am hopeful that in the near future the devs can get all the necessary resources to make their PTO a very fun and entertaining installment; hopefully after BON.

 

Cheers.

 

The first gen Il-2 had a lot less care and attention put into the flight models and systems. The performance of stuff like the La-5FN and the late 109s on some patches was nothing short of absurd, and everything felt a lot more on-rails and scripted than we have right now

[Voyager]

6 minutes ago, Megalax said:

 

Mind you, now with the Mosquito coming a Battle of North Sea/Norway would be really cool. Corsairs tangled with FW190's in Norway so...

 

And that argument is poor anyway. Online there are so many maps with P-38s and Tempests flying over Kuban or Stalingrad.

 

If we can track down Fleet Air Arm Corsairs of Avengers that operated over the Normandy region we can make a good case to bring one or both of them in as collector's planes once the Yak-9 and Hurricane are done. 

 

I feel that the Fleet Air Arm, and the Corsair in particular would make very good collectors planes, partly because the FAA was always out of the limelight, and for the British Corsair, because it both doesn't really drive any major battles, but is very historically significant. 

[CanadaOne]

16 minutes ago, Megalax said:

 

Mind you, now with the Mosquito coming a Battle of North Sea/Norway would be really cool. Corsairs tangled with FW190's in Norway so...

 

And that argument is poor anyway. Online there are so many maps with P-38s and Tempests flying over Kuban or Stalingrad.

 

 

SHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You'll wake up the puritans*.

 

*Puritan: A person who lives in constant fear that someone somewhere might be having fun.

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

My opinion on the topic and as I remember it, after Pacific Fighters came out for the old Il-2 developers have taken a lot of FLAK from the online community. There was so much work put into it and what the devs  got was only a lot of criticism a lot of additional work and as I remember it, it was not a commercial success nearly bringing 1C down to its knees while creating a bad picture of 1C public wise from bad reviews. As much as I would love to see Pacific, I think that it is technically one of the most challenging scenarios with huge commercial risks and can also cause a lot of public relations damage for developers and for their other products. Therefore I completely understand Jason's position and cautiousness with regard to possible Pacific theater of operations in the future.

[Megalax]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

 

If we can track down Fleet Air Arm Corsairs of Avengers that operated over the Normandy region we can make a good case to bring one or both of them in as collector's planes once the Yak-9 and Hurricane are done. 

 

I feel that the Fleet Air Arm, and the Corsair in particular would make very good collectors planes, partly because the FAA was always out of the limelight, and for the British Corsair, because it both doesn't really drive any major battles, but is very historically significant. 

 

Avengers were deployed over the Channel on D-Day. 

[Voyager]

1 hour ago, Megalax said:

 

Avengers were deployed over the Channel on D-Day. 

 

Doing some digging around, it looks like the 846 and 849th Naval Air Squadrons may have been operating in the Channel around Normandy during D-Day. We'll need to do more digging to see if either operated from land bases during that period, or if they were strictly carrier based. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/846_Naval_Air_Squadron

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/849_Naval_Air_Squadron

[343KKT_Kintaro]

That's funny: an aircraft that mainly operated in the Pacific… and if some day we get it in the game as a flyable plane… that will be because a fistful of copies served during a few days during the Normandy invasion.

 

Are we turning nuts?

[Voyager]

@343KKT_KintaroWait, was there ever a presumption that we weren't nuts? We're flight simmers here; I thought being nuts was a prerequisite? 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

21 hours ago, Voyager said:

@343KKT_KintaroWait, was there ever a presumption that we weren't nuts? We're flight simmers here; I thought being nuts was a prerequisite? 

 

Hahahahahahaha!!!!! You're welcome my friend!