Did games get soft?

[InProgress]

It's going to be a longer post, lately I was thinking about games in the past and what we have now. Did games get softer than what we used to have? And i am not really talking about the gore, there is a lot of games that still does it, like mortal kombat. But still i have a feeling that in some games it was toned down a lot. For example in the FPS games, we used to have games like Soldiers of Fortune, Brothers in Arms hell's highway (more about it later) also did it very well, even Call of Duty World at War did outstanding job when it comes to gore and brutality. It was not some overdone mindless violence but something that made this game feel more real and would remind me of The Pacific (TV series), it was not only about blood and limbs getting blown up but for a Call of Duty game it depicted brutality of the pacific and eastern front very well. We could see execution of prisoners, wounded and much much more. We don't see that anymore. I have not played new Call of Duty ww2 but from what I saw on YT, it moved into more action way.

 

Lately I finished older RTS from 2005, Stalingrad. And I was kind of amazed by the small details this game has. It's something I have not seen in years. Sometimes there were civilians on the map, wounded soldiers, hospitals with red cross, on gumrak you would see ju52 with red cross on it and the point is, you could destroy hospital, kill civilians, shoot at medical ju52 and wounded soldiers would come out of it and you could shoot them as well. You could even kill Palus who was holding white flag in last mission. You could do it if you wanted to. And this is something that we don't really see today, games will end with some info that you can't do such things or simply when you aim at them, you won't be able to shoot. They force players to follow some weird rules, you can't kill a kid in Skyrim but you can become cannibal and kill everyone in town (but kids) and eat them. Where is the logic in this?

 

There are still games that will go this path, in a lot of RPG you can kill civilians, some shooters too, world does not end because of it. And yet a lot of games won't let you do it, even if they are just numbers. In hearts of iron 4, you can bomb london as much as you want, drop nukes on it. Not a single civilian will die and they are not some cosmetic thing, they affect gameplay and yet devs made them immortal so player can't kill them to lower morale (which does not exist) or affect menpower and production. 

 

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/dWJhqQd5dxk?t=378

Military History Visualized made nice video about food or lack of it in HoI4.

 

Another thing that seems to be gone from modern games are realistic deaths. In mod for RO2, called IOM, if you shot someone in the neck, he would still be "alive", moving a lot and you would hear him suffocate, hit in stomach would make him scream a lot for a while etc. The only modern game i know that still does this kind of gameplay mechanic is Verdun/Tannenberg.

 

In Brothers in Arms Hell's Highway we can see this scene

Spoiler

 

In Battlestation Pacific you could sink hospital ship

Spoiler

 

In IL2 you never get any missions (in BoX it kind of makes sense but in CloD or 1946) to actually bomb cities. Everything is a military target. Are we going to see civilian trains in bodenplatte? A civilian with a horse and a cart? Some civilian cars? I highly doubt.

 

And the point of all this is not really to satisfy someone's sick lust but even if someone will kill everyone, does not matter if it's rts, rpg, fps or a sim. Does it really matter? All this little details will make experience feel more real. It's up to the player how will he plays. Having a choice or witnessing some things can drasticly change the way you look at game, play it and how you feel in the end. If you shoot at enemies and they just fall, no blood, no screams, nothing, it does not really feel like something bad or meaningful. You just rush and shoot at everything and it feels like fun. But when i play Verdun, it has completly diffrent feeling. You don't really think like it's some amazing fun anymore, it gets more real i guess. Kind of hard to describe and it's only my opinion, other people can feel diffrent. But if game (or even a movie) will show much more brutal deaths than just "gets shot in the leg and dies instantly" then it's completly diffrent experience, and i just feel bad for them.

 

I remember in call of duty world at war, there was a moment in russian campaign when you would get into a room where one russian would interrogate german prisoner and then shoot him. In my first play years ago when i saw him draw a gun on pow, i just shot him. I knew there is "friendly fire will not be tolerated" crap but i did it anyway and what happend? He actually died, you saved pow and game did not punish you for shooting someone on your side. You could also do nothing and that german would die. Since then, i don't remember any game that would do something like this. I played this game 11 years ago and still remember bunch of scenes like this.

 

Back to the point It's not about gore, being able to kill everyone in hospital and feel good about it. It's actually opposite, knowing you can do things but not doing them, being able to hold yourself, if you see wounded enemy soldier who just shot a medic that tried to help him but you also see that he dropped his pistol and just lies there, you have a choice, you can shoot him or leave him. Choices like this through the game will (at least for me) change the way you think and how you feel in the end. Sometimes you would be forced to do some things, you get a task to bomb london and you do it, whether you like it or not. Perfect example of being forced to do something you probably did not want to do was White Phosphorus scene in Spec Ops The Line.

 

And the ending, why don't we get to see some mature content like this anymore? In the movies you can show blind violence and really disturbing or disgusting stuff without any problem. But in games it's such a big deal now, how can they be considered art if creators are censored and they don't have freedom to create. They know that even if they did something and i mean something deep, mature, really good, not just mindless killing in brutal way but showing horrors of war. Then they will get banned in australia, bunch of countries will demand censoring some parts of the game and probably lots of people will start crying that this has no right to exist. Happend with "Hatred" (which actually was just mindless killing) but game came out, people moved on, world did not end, people who played it did not went insane, nothing has happend.

 

What do you think about all this?

Edited June 21, 2019 by InProgress

[Leon_Portier]

Maybe that´s just with mainstream games, not sure. Red Orchestra 2 is very intense in that regard gotta say.

 

I do remember similar features in Half Live tho, the trapped security guys and fellow scientists in the research center will do their best to help you out but die easily from all hazards, including you if you choose, they are just civilians after all. For example, many scientists will patch you up or open doors for you. There is also a security guard in trouble near the beginning, if he dies, you´d get the first gun early, if you help him out you got a new friend who fights alongside with you!

[InProgress]

39 minutes ago, [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier said:

Maybe that´s just with mainstream games, not sure. Red Orchestra 2 is very intense in that regard gotta say.

RO2 is quite old now and still it did not really push that far when it comes to brutal combat. They censored swastica, even tho there is no excuse for that since this was american company and there was and still is plenty of games that have it, new steel division 2 for example. And if you played IOM mod then you would see that original RO2 was quite chill i guess. They improved everything, from gore to simple sound effect so being under arty fire was really scary in compare or original RO2.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Playing IOM was my best FPS experience i have ever had in my life and i played tons of FPS. It was really the best game ever. I wish people who made this mod would made entire game like this or even better.

Edited June 21, 2019 by InProgress

[NETSCAPE]

There is a thread in the scripted campaigns section about KG 55 missions with insight into flight book/logs. Many of the missions were against Stalingrad itself, as one would expect based on the history of the battle, duh. So that is one prime example of IL-2 not getting it right (they are a-ok with retarded cinematics depicting civilians being targeted, but god forbid it is actually in game). If AI issues were taken care of you could rest assured I would make some bombing missions against the City itself. I mean it was a war wasn't it? This is a war game isn't it? For some reason the flight community seems very divided on blood/gore or civilian targets. I suspect because many fans are like hot-rod fans. They like the aesthetic of planes and the pretty sounds, but want to look away at the fact that these are war machines designed for death and destruction. Personally I want to strafe and bomb small ferry vessels on the Volga. 

 

The lack of civilians is a huge issue I have with war games in general. Some "edgy" non-war games have innocent or civilians populations - but NEVER kids. Why? What is the difference between killing a hooker in GTA vs. killing a punk kid on a skateboard? I want a war game where maybe you're clearing an area and storm a building only to learn your arty barrage you called in killed a mother and her child. That's war. Kids will grow up thinking that war is where 2 opposing armies meet up for combat after everyone else clears out of the area... I'm afraid the these zoomers will grow up thinking that Imperial Germany consisted of black people. It's so retarded. 

 

I'd like to see a single player story/character driven Vietnam War game where the player faces moral dilemmas and choices that have massive consequences (imagine you're a platoon leader). For example your interaction with the civilians would always be nerve racking... maybe you gain the trust of some villagers and they give you intel... maybe you find out one of them was actually relaying information to the NLF... maybe some "civilians" approach you and don't stop when you order them to, do you have your guys shoot or take the risk of another soldier bleeding out from a surprise grenade? ect ect. Now if you make a game like that there will be edge lords that will just want to kill everything, no doubt. But that's not the point. If someone forked over a stack of money to me I'd make it my mission to produce war games that depict the horror of war. Marketing would essentially be free based on the "controversy" - it would pay for itself. (hit me up angel investors lol)

 

Remember that game Hatred? Yeah I supported those devs for merely having the balls to make the game. I support freedom of speech. It's ironic how GTA everyone is a thug, runs around committing all sorts of crimes and murder... but you "have a choice" (implying people use morals and ethics while playing GTA HAHA) . But in Hatreds case the critics said it was different because the premise of the game was that you're playing as a mass-shooter, and that's a no-no I guess. This "you are acting it out" sentiment is exactly what our opposition says in regards to why video games are different than ultra-violent movies,  which as you stated are widely excepted as being "ok". 

 

You mentioned RO2. We all know that game. RS2 plays somewhat rare death audio that reminded me of RO2... after 300 hours in-game I heard a unique death sound yesterday that was gnarly. It felt like it lasted an eternity, the sound of a man choking and drowning on his own blood. It was brutal. It made me second guessing if I should exit my little crater of protection I was hiding in. Though I will admit overall RO2 has a much more grim atmosphere all around. But imagine how much cooler it would be if you occasionally saw a civilian or 2 darting across a streets of Stalingrad? Or maybe a Babushka gives you a PPSH-41 drum mag... all sorts of possibilities to add a more "human" aspect to the game. 

 

Political Correctness gets adopted by most large companies and corporations - and that is what is shifting and killing the gaming world. This is why I bought HATRED and IS DEFENSE from those Polish devs. Not only were the games actually fun but I wanted to support their lowkey political flanking maneuver just in the name of freedom of speech, expression and art. 

 

I had to fight with my parents to play DOOM II as a kid. This was my entry into PC gaming. lol. The fight never ends.

 

GaMeRz RiZe Up.

 

[InProgress]

And this is exactly what i mean. You can go and read great war book, you can watch realistic war movie but you can't go play realistic war game. These small details that older games had were amazing. There was scene in CoD world at war with few japs that would surrender and then blow themselves and some americans up. Similar to medal of honor pacific assault, i remember how surprised i was when dead jap would stand up and rush at me with a satchel charge. I died. Then i was shooting at dead bodies just to be sure. These were just smaller details but we never really got what you described. A full game like this where throwing nade to clear house can end up with dead civilians inside and you feeling like shit. No, you always throw it there, kill 5 bad guys and feel great.

 

I really hope to see your campaigns that will task me with bombing cities and ships on volga. And i hope TF with clod blitz will go there as well, so we can expect actuall city bombings.

 

It's not a war game but "Ready or not" seems like something similar, you will play as police and it is suppose to show as realistic as possible how it looks like. Raiding warehouse with girls in horrible state inside a container to be shipped somewhere as slaves.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by InProgress

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

First games that would come to mind would be "This war of mine" and "Spec Ops the line". Most major game companies use those edgy topics only for their marketing blurbs but when there is any serious conversation they pull back claiming that they're games in no way have a message. Realistic violence and Morally grey/black situations don't make for good Blockbusters.

The American military which helps with many of the games is also not really fond of being portrayed as anything but Pure, clean Good guys.

There is also a growing number of Gamers who have experienced the real horrors of War. Videos of drone pilots, laughing they're asses of while mowing down civilians and so on. It is not far enough removed to be an easily consumable producer for the masses.

[InProgress]

5 minutes ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

"This war of mine"

Yeah, it is awesome game. Great experience to see how it looks like from the other side. Hope these devs will come back and do something similar, frostpunk was great too but now they moved into pixel style fantasy "Children of Morta".

[Ehret]

Just now, NETSCAPE said:

Remember that game Hatred? Yeah I supported those devs for merely having the balls to make the game. I support freedom of speech. It's ironic how GTA everyone is a thug, runs around committing all sorts of crimes and murder... but you "have a choice" (implying people use morals and ethics while playing GTA HAHA) . But in Hatreds case the critics said it was different because the premise of the game was that you're playing as a mass-shooter, and that's a no-no I guess. This "you are acting it out" sentiment is exactly what our opposition says in regards to why video games are different than ultra-violent movies,  which as you stated are widely excepted as being "ok".

 

There is the other major difference between GTA and the Hatred; the latter couldn't make anywhere as much money no matter what. The GTA is famous franchise thus has the sacred cash cow status...

Now everyone wants to make another Fortnite - a cartoon-ish game occupied by big number of kids.

Why?

Kids are easy target for all those insidious micro-transaction schemes.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Ehret

[Gr3y]

• Games get soft, as people get touchy, nowdays it is really easy to offend someone (PC mentioned by NETSCAPE), so many developers try to avoid that.
• Pure financial reasons, less violence\controversy usually should end up with higher sales or less criticism, which most companies want, some would do this for extra 'rumor' around the title though, if it pays off.
• Then there are people who can't pilot machine with historical markings (swastika) but have no problem to use it to take virtual lives, when the markings are absent.
• Similar to movies, music, books, people usually prefer 'light' topics to entertain them, not to make them think and feel bad.
• Finally there are some countries who forbid certain situations in media, again restricting possible audience.

 

Conclusion - money is the root of all evil.

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by TrueGrey
Precision

[InProgress]

4 minutes ago, TrueGrey said:

Then there are people who can't pilot machine with historical markings but have no problem to use it to take virtual lives, when the markings are absent.

I don't really think swastica is such a big deal, it never really was. There were and still are games that have it and no one really talks about it. It's there and people don't riot. New Steel Division 2 (surprisingly made by french) did not censore it. Some devs just choose to censore it and some don't but there is really no bad inpact on these that just added it to the game. So i really don't understand the logic behind censoring it. Especially if you could just sell censored version to the countries that law does not allow for it. Maybe it's too much trouble to make seperated version for them? Don't know. At least would like to see some in game workshop (or steam workshop) that will allow people to put their mods in there and people to download and install it with 1 click, then get automatic updates. Instead of seraching for everything on forum and update every single mod manually.

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

14 minutes ago, TrueGrey said:

•  
• Then there are people who can't pilot machine with historical markings but have no problem to use it to take virtual lives, when the markings are absent.

 

It is one thing to handle a Machine created by People where masters of their craft and just so happened to find them self in a certain region of the world at the time working under the leadership of that region and painting the symbol of that Ideology on your virtual avatar. Although I have no problem with it I understand everyone who doesn't want to do that. You can appreciate certain parts of people without having to think everything they did was good.

[Gr3y]

@InProgress

 

I'm not quite sure but some countries may force companies located on their territory not to use it, then there is no option for different versions. Also if there is some research saying that "more people will not buy a game with swastica than people not buying the title without it", devs will probably not use it.

 

@[GG]Sarpalaxan

 

Both machine and the symbol are strictly connected to nazis. Also even without markings when you fly as axis in the game you fight allies, you picked the side, you do exactly the same things you would do with the markings. But I just wanted to point out, that there are people with their own believes, which may prevent them from buying/using the game, whether we understande them or not.

Edited June 21, 2019 by TrueGrey

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I wonder if fallout without blood and open possibilities to kill anybody would be such big success as it was. Personally I don't want games with only purpose is just do violence but realistic depiction of war horrors should be show to audience , they will know that wars are not fought in isolation without real drama. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Y'all sound like experts. Get together start a game studio and start producing your ultra violent video games. Throw a bunch of swastikas everywhere and see how far you get. Then blame the liberals for everything, grab your guns and start taking your persecution complex out on the general public.

[InProgress]

4 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

Y'all sound like experts. Get together start a game studio and start producing your ultra violent video games. Throw a bunch of swastikas everywhere and see how far you get. Then blame the liberals for everything, grab your guns and start taking your persecution complex out on the general public.

I will just copy answer from some article instead.

 

Making Your Own Doesn't Fix the Problem

All you need to make a comic is an idea, a sheet of paper, and a pen. Children can do it. Children do do it. Making your own is easy.

And... what then? How do you get people to read your comic? How do you sustain it? If you're making a comic rather than criticizing a publisher, how do you match their production values? Their distribution? Their promotion? If your criticism is of a genre, a medium, an infrastructure, how do you 'make your own' version of all that?

Alternatives are not solutions. If a bakery sells contaminated bread, and you try to warn people about it, are you going to listen to someone who tells you to shut up and bake your own bread? You actually can bake your own bread --- trust me, you can --- but does that solve anything?

'Make your own' is not an answer; it's a distraction from the problem. Making your own is about as much help as buying a hat or singing a song. It's a non sequitur. It means, "If you don't like it, go away and do something else so I don't have to listen to you any more."

Don't be that guy. That guy's a jerk.

 

Really dude, never ever use this "argument" because you are only make fool of yourself and no one will ever take you seriously.

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

@TrueGrey 

A hammer doesn't care which nail it strikes and neither does a plane. A Plane can fly under multiple banners but not many Banners will change to which nation they belong. A BF-109-G6 shooting at a B-21 can be an Axis or a Swiss pilot shooting at an American or British crew, but a Swastika Shooting at a Red Star will almost always be the same.

Some people just like to learn a certain skill without wanting to think too much about the circumstances in which it was needed.

[InProgress]

21 minutes ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Some people just like to learn a certain skill without wanting to think too much about the circumstances in which it was needed.

What i am about to show you may shock you. So better sit down

Spoiler

Amazing is not it? A choice. Something that let people pick option that suits them the most. All this arguments and fighting over this is really stupid. Simple solution shown above should end this fight permamently. You are ok with it? Click show, don't like it? Click hide. That simple.

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by InProgress

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

8 minutes ago, InProgress said:

What i am about to show you may shock you. So better sit down

  Reveal hidden contents

Amazing is not it? A choice. Something that let people pick option that suits them the most. All this arguments and fighting over this is really stupid. Simple solution shown above should end this fight permamently. You are ok with it? Click show, don't like it? Click hide. That simple.

 

Why should that shock me? If you can afford that option as a gamedeveloper legaly and financially and the option doesen't undermine the message of your artwork go for it. All I argued was that soemone playing in il-2 without Historical markings isn't a lesser player because of his choice. 

[InProgress]

Just now, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Why should that shock me? All I argued was that soemone playing in il-2 without Historical markings isn't a lesser player because of his choice. 

A joke --> smiling face

Nobody said that he is lesser player.

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

Sure Just a joke. But when I wrap my hands around someone's throat and start to press everybody tries to stop me, even though I told them that I'm just joking.

Ok serious answer now. Reading TrueGrey's post I got the impression that he can't understand the people wanting to fly without historical markings. So I tried to argue why they could have that view.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, InProgress said:

I will just copy answer from some article instead.

 

Making Your Own Doesn't Fix the Problem

All you need to make a comic is an idea, a sheet of paper, and a pen. Children can do it. Children do do it. Making your own is easy.

And... what then? How do you get people to read your comic? How do you sustain it? If you're making a comic rather than criticizing a publisher, how do you match their production values? Their distribution? Their promotion? If your criticism is of a genre, a medium, an infrastructure, how do you 'make your own' version of all that?

Alternatives are not solutions. If a bakery sells contaminated bread, and you try to warn people about it, are you going to listen to someone who tells you to shut up and bake your own bread? You actually can bake your own bread --- trust me, you can --- but does that solve anything?

'Make your own' is not an answer; it's a distraction from the problem. Making your own is about as much help as buying a hat or singing a song. It's a non sequitur. It means, "If you don't like it, go away and do something else so I don't have to listen to you any more."

Don't be that guy. That guy's a jerk.

 

Really dude, never ever use this "argument" because you are only make fool of yourself and no one will ever take you seriously.

 

‘This is complete nonsense.  Doing it yourself solves EVERYTHING.  You get exactly the blood soaked swastika filled game you want with whatever political statement that you want to make.  It’s a win for everyone.

[Sokol1]

Is the time we live. See all "SJW" "mimimi" about Cyberpunk 77 trailer show in last E3. 

 

Curious is that  (1988) Cyberpunk 2020 (card game) paint the future much like is now, 30 years latter. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Sokol1

[Gr3y]

2 hours ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

@TrueGrey 

A hammer doesn't care which nail it strikes and neither does a plane. A Plane can fly under multiple banners but not many Banners will change to which nation they belong. A BF-109-G6 shooting at a B-21 can be an Axis or a Swiss pilot shooting at an American or British crew, but a Swastika Shooting at a Red Star will almost always be the same.

Some people just like to learn a certain skill without wanting to think too much about the circumstances in which it was needed.

1 hour ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Sure Just a joke. But when I wrap my hands around someone's throat and start to press everybody tries to stop me, even though I told them that I'm just joking.

Ok serious answer now. Reading TrueGrey's post I got the impression that he can't understand the people wanting to fly without historical markings. So I tried to argue why they could have that view.

 

Because I don't understand it (most cases), they just remove swastika, still flying with other Luftwaffe markings (lots of skins like these are on the forum), which makes absolutely no sense to me. Swastika is also removed from non-nazi planes. I am not saying all German designed planes should have swastikas ; )

[Velxra]

There is actually two reasons for why games now follow a more walking of egg shells approach. One, companies want to make their product (not game) applicable to as many people as possible. So this requires them to dumb down their product for the least amount of risk of offending people or pushing people away due to the unique challenges in that product. I call this method CoD-ah-fying a game because it is the same path call of duty followed. Once a unique and well beloved game, is now nothing more than a generic "apply to all" product. This first method appeases the high end members of the companies and the profit craving stockholders to reach a yearly product release quota for expected profits. Just remember, too such companies, it is not about making a product profitable, it is instead about reaching a 200% return on profits for each product released. They shell out as many games/products as possible on a yearly timeline and if they can get the "game" out faster, then even better. This is why "games as a service" is now a thing in AAA studios. Because games as a service takes away the risk the company has on a game becoming a financial failure on release. They finish a game to about 70% then release it. If it is popular and profitable to their expectation then it will continue to have content dripped into it. And I do mean dripped, as the company will pull those devs into other games instead of quickly finishing the released. Because why quickly finish something when you have already been paid for it! If the game aka product, is a failure on release then the company can merely walk away and consumer can absorb the risk involved instead of the company. That is why each "game as a service" has a contract clause stating you accept that this product is incomplete and it cannot be refunded. 

Second, most large modern companies and game companies mainly hire based on ideology and college certificates instead of experience. In American/Western schools liberal marxist ideology is put forth in education from grade school all the way until college graduation. This has been slowly rising since the 60-70s, and much of law itself and company management/policy is now based on liberal ideology with only single digit percentages of opposing views/ideas in the same areas. The reason I bring this up, is that game companies are primarily filled by recent college grads or individuals who hold liberal views. Which since 2012 liberal ideology has shifted into more extremes of radical leftism. Thus these companies seek individuals who share similar viewpoints and turn away others who do not share their "vision". This is why year after year, companies/developers are now pushing more and more liberal ideology and agenda into their games instead of making a product/game "good". It is almost like a checklist of victimization must be represented and reached in order for them to approve and finish a product/game. Hence why for the past five years, AAA game after AAA game has been a complete failure. People do not want ideology in their games, they want a solid compelling story, and unique experience. These are things that big companies and AAA studios can no longer produce because it goes against their mantra of copy paste games for profit and now even their core ideology. 

Which brings us to indie developers/studios, much like the ones for this flight sim. Instead of avoiding the risk of producing a unique game that may not please everyone and throwing in an agenda to serve political ideals. We have dedicated developers/studios who put in all their effort into making GOOD unique games because such people are passionate about their game. This is nothing new of course, indie devs or indie studios have always made the best games. Almost every, "big" AAA game that is now nothing more than watered down trash was once a successful indie game! The secret is these big companies buy out such games and the indie devs see it as their big new chance. But the cycle of big companies buying out smaller indie studios/developers is nothing new. For example, a big company buys out a indie studio. They let the indie devs create the next game they want with only a few strings attached. Then the big corporate heads only see the greed of profit from that second release and want the next game pushed out. But this third time, the product needs pushed out faster, use less resources, and apply to everyone for max profits. This combination of greed, dead lines, and product gentrification is the complete full cycle of how a great indie game morphs into a generic and cheap AAA game.

Although there are much better explanations out there about what I have said. This basically covers the large majority of why/how "games became soft". In short, support your indie studios/developers and keep them away from being bought out. Indie devs will always make the best games and corporate greed will always make the most profitable product.

[Gambit21]

I don't understand the twisted desire for gore.

I absolutely avoid it.

 

Rainbow Six was an excellent game, and guess what...there wasn't brains spattered all over the place.

It's gratuitous and unnecessary, and frankly I think there's way too much of it nowadays, not less.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

Do game companies need to pay large fees to get their games rated when they need a higher classification?  I always wondered about that.

[Gr3y]

8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I don't understand the twisted desire for gore.

I absolutely avoid it.

 

Rainbow Six was an excellent game, and guess what...there wasn't brains spattered all over the place.

It's gratuitous and unnecessary, and frankly I think there's way too much of it nowadays, not less.

 

 

 

While I agree that mindless gore is not necessary, sometimes BIT of it helps with immersion. Guess we all remember what feelings about war we got when seeing Saving Private Ryan for the first time. Compare it to many old movies which were really 'soft' in that matter, they often almost seem romantic, war is not like that, everyone should know war is hell, so we should do everything to avoid them.

 

Rainbow Six was an excellent game, true, and it contained something OP is also mentioning - civilians, who were adding additional depth into the game.  You couldn't just enter every room nading it beforhand then going trigger happy. That is what I understand OP meant, you had to actually be careful, think upon your actions, game was not just about killing everyone before they kill you. Rainbow Six without civilians would be completely different game, in my opinion much worse.

Edited June 22, 2019 by TrueGrey

[InProgress]

8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I don't understand the twisted desire for gore.

Why twisted? It's simply someone's preferences. Personally "gore" is something i witness pretty much everyday in real life so i don't really find it as something special or such a big deal, it's part of life. In games it just makes the created world feel more real and mature. Rainbow 6 siege is not very mature game, it's something close to CS, very PvP experience. If you look at game i posted here before, "Ready or not", i don't think they would be able to make what they want without gore, it would just turn into rainbow six. Gore is simply a small part used to created bigger picture. I get some people won't like it but this is why there is bunch of diffrent games for diffrent people. Gladly lots of games have option to turn off gore so everyone can be happy. But i would not call people twisted just because they want this part in the game, just like people who want nudity are not pervs. Witcher 3 had both and thanks to balancing it well it managed to create really awesome game. These were just details but details are everything in end product.

7 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Do game companies need to pay large fees to get their games rated when they need a higher classification?  I always wondered about that.

Doubt, they only have to censore some stuff in some countries. It's quite funny tho, americans censore nudity mostly, japan censores violence and australia censores everything

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFItIX8SIs4zqhJCHpbeV1A

 

Cool channel if you want to see what and where gets censored, often it's really ridiculus (adding longer shirt because girl shows some belly hehe)

[Feathered_IV]

I just wondered if our taxpayer dollars are what funds the rating classification of the latest hentai roleplaying game for example.  

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Edited June 22, 2019 by SYN_Haashashin