A strange Request

[Sublime]

I thougbt of putting this in MP but it said to advertise servers.

I dont have voice chat but type fast and this doesnt have to be super involved.

Wiuld anyone experienced be willing to arrange to meet me on an MP server - dogfight me and tell me what Im dojng wrong or give me pointers between matches?  This doesnt have to be a super serious commitment - just lookiing to step up my game. 

Thanks!

[-332FG-Hank_DG]

what do you typically fly

 

[Sublime]

Blue

109 F4 or G6

190 A3 or A5 more rarely

Jabo 110 most rarely

Red

La5FN fav

Yak7B

Yak1B tied

 

Thats about it right now unless you have suggestions. But id really like to get proficient with 1 or 2 planes particularly for MP. So either 109s, 190s or la5fns.  Id prefer 109s tbh as theyre the most available of the all

[Guest deleted@134347]

18 hours ago, Sublime said:

Blue

109 F4 or G6

190 A3 or A5 more rarely

Jabo 110 most rarely

Red

La5FN fav

Yak7B

Yak1B tied

 

Thats about it right now unless you have suggestions. But id really like to get proficient with 1 or 2 planes particularly for MP. So either 109s, 190s or la5fns.  Id prefer 109s tbh as theyre the most available of the all

 

get on Berloga and ask for 1v1 duels.. someone will always respond.. teaching, however, is another thing.. nobody will teach you anything there, unless you come across an understanding soul..

[Sublime]

Exactly. I can find dogfights. And i can get kills. Sometimes i want someone to go over with me after a few dogfights what stands out Im doing riggt and wrong. And Id like to do like 3 of me in a 109 3 vs 109 in my russian plane.  We debrief after 3 for 3 against. Do it agaun. Maybe do another set of planes.  I knos the moces. I get better. Certain things financiallt cant be helped now but I refuse to throw my hands up and say I cant bc x y or z.  It may be harder but mouse look etc is doable.

I have a theottle on my joy but often have to tske a hand off mouse to adjust it. I took my flap keys off top of joy and made a 2nd throttle for dogfights.. Works well i tried following so eones advice about usk g the hat for views. Actually it was 77 count IIRC but i misunderstood at first. Then realized they meant move body. Its a rlly good idea and helps a lot for no ir or vr however I dont have a cqstle and china hat. I have a weird hat and just one for controls. So thats mt cowl flaps or water and oil rads. Unfortunately theyre a little more importantnthan thr view thing - itd take a lot of practice to get decent using that for just a little extra benefit. Itd still never be as quick and natural as track ir and vr. I just need a used one of either when I find a job. Along with a cheap but usable headset. Those are my priorities..  Im really hoping I get this job I got on the line now but Im ot sorry.

Anyways yes I just... I get expetience SO not the right kind.  Mp yes but I get slaughtered. Friday 5 or 6 deaths for 3 planes I saw hits on thats it.

7 deaths yesterday for a couple hits and one kill. He actually went down aftet me I just crash landed and msgd gf to him then he died and i went out so he got credit. That UB gunners a mofo.  I need to step my game up.

A lot.

Now since no ones taking me up lets do some questions.

I havent reslly used the FW online much. I got A3 and A5 only fyi.  No F8 or dora. Same with 109s G6 is best I got as far as latest date.

I like a lot of allied planes but. I think I need to focus on 3 planes. 1 allied (say la5fn my best performing plane I have) and mostly axis no vr and track ir and not being a l33t pilot means though I can fly the manual planes well the automatization helps and makes it a lil easier. Also theres 109s in *every* theater.

So I want ti really master 109s and 190s I suppose. I flew a 190 last nite in MP first time not bad. My hearts still in the 109.. Idk why it may change.

Tactics.. The same but more bnz for 190s? Alt alt alt? Or is low level deck hunting good too?

Wgats better a3 or a5 for a2a? I kniw the strike modifications for... A2g but the extra power.. Has anyone tried using it for dogfighting? Lol...

I ask a3 or a5 because a5 u control thr cowling. Seems an advantage. Perhaps not though.  If say FWa went away from a more pure fighter role into fighter bomber territory more thsn the a3 may be better?

Thoughts? Or are the A3 and A5 so similar the difference is almost totally negligable like a 109 F2 / F4

Wing cannons. Take em why not right? Do they hurt the roll at all? I dont see why more cannons would hurt * at all*?

[Guest deleted@134347]

17 minutes ago, Sublime said:

no vr and track ir

 

above is the biggest drawback for the MP.   80% of survivability in MP is awareness and enemy spotting. 15% is technicals and %5 luck.  I fly in VR and the altitude depends on the plane's strength, i.e. turner, diver, etc. But in any plane whilst flying my head is on the swivel constantly checking 5 and 7 o'clock, with occasional weaving so I can see what's under my nose. If you happen to spot an enemy you're already at the advantage: engage or climb away (if you're outnumbered).  Everything else (dive/speed/maneuvering) is dependent on your plane's chars.

[-332FG-Hank_DG]

you also really need consistent and reliable wingmen to survive on mp, especially campaigns such as TAW. Best way to learn is by joining a squadron.

[Sublime]

27 minutes ago, bombdetere said:

 

above is the biggest drawback for the MP.   80% of survivability in MP is awareness and enemy spotting. 15% is technicals and %5 luck.  I fly in VR and the altitude depends on the plane's strength, i.e. turner, diver, etc. But in any plane whilst flying my head is on the swivel constantly checking 5 and 7 o'clock, with occasional weaving so I can see what's under my nose. If you happen to spot an enemy you're already at the advantage: engage or climb away (if you're outnumbered).  Everything else (dive/speed/maneuvering) is dependent on your plane's chars.

Youre absutely right. Jsut like irl the first to spot usually wins. And yes Ican tell frpm watching youtube and how easily and naturally people track their enemies and also little things (without vr or track ir try using the p40 mirror LOL) . i know im fighting uphill. I refuse to just give up.  I may never be the best or even be anywhere close but I know if I keep at this I can at leadt become a somewhat dangerous opponenet and get more than my average of 1 kill for 10 losses or so ti more like 1:1 or 1 for 2.

Anything to feel more competitive.

Also evasive maneuvering. Climbs aee a mistake. Barrel rolls seem good but cause me to auger in low.  Dives work somewhat but you get hosed. Its hard and ironicwlly whem Im in pursuit it seems they read mt mind. 2 tricks have worked well for me tho - one I do in SP to keep formation I hit my rudder ledt and right hard back and forth it kills airspeed FAST. In some planes this just gets u killed though. In the bf110 the rudders are good enough Ice forced 3 overshoots and got away because of it.

Surprinsingly the most effective tactics zive used and it may suck I just started tryinf it - its not even trying to dodhe thst much. I see em on my tail I just go up and down. Not a lot tho I dont eanma lose speed. Just enough to make them adjust their aim and the entire time Im either going left or right or makin ym rudder make me turn or one time I was using the rudder to keeo me pointed strsight and was doing nonstop barrel rolls.. At first it was great, Id roll fast and slow and the guy seemed thrown by the weird maneuver and was all over the place. Unfortunately he musta taken a breath calmed down and then eviscerated me lol.

7 minutes ago, II./JG77_HankDG said:

you also really need consistent and reliable wingmen to survive on mp, especially campaigns such as TAW. Best way to learn is by joining a squadron.

again just like irl Il2 bears this out. But my sitatuikn makes this impossible. I type fast etc but no one will evem fly with me because no headset.  When i get a job again Ill fix this issue but now it is what it is.  No squad will recruit someone with. No headset and I dont blame anyone for it. Its a huge handicap

Friday night 2 yaks working together dogfought me twice and both times waxed me easy amd they played my game as the 109 and went vertical (prolly ti lure me)  it was the wingman. Second time at least I got 1 20mm on one of them. 

[JG27*PapaFly]

1) Get this book: Fighter Combat, by Robert Shaw.

2) Join a squad.

 

We'd take you on but have recruited a bunch of new sticks recently and are busy getting them up to speed.

Edited May 12, 2019 by JG27_PapaFly

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Youre absutely right. Jsut like irl the first to spot usually wins. And yes Ican tell frpm watching youtube and how easily and naturally people track their enemies and also little things (without vr or track ir try using the p40 mirror LOL) . i know im fighting uphill. I refuse to just give up.  I may never be the best or even be anywhere close but I know if I keep at this I can at leadt become a somewhat dangerous opponenet and get more than my average of 1 kill for 10 losses or so ti more like 1:1 or 1 for 2.

Anything to feel more competitive.

Also evasive maneuvering. Climbs aee a mistake. Barrel rolls seem good but cause me to auger in low.  Dives work somewhat but you get hosed. Its hard and ironicwlly whem Im in pursuit it seems they read mt mind. 2 tricks have worked well for me tho - one I do in SP to keep formation I hit my rudder ledt and right hard back and forth it kills airspeed FAST. In some planes this just gets u killed though. In the bf110 the rudders are good enough Ice forced 3 overshoots and got away because of it.

Surprinsingly the most effective tactics zive used and it may suck I just started tryinf it - its not even trying to dodhe thst much. I see em on my tail I just go up and down. Not a lot tho I dont eanma lose speed. Just enough to make them adjust their aim and the entire time Im either going left or right or makin ym rudder make me turn or one time I was using the rudder to keeo me pointed strsight and was doing nonstop barrel rolls.. At first it was great, Id roll fast and slow and the guy seemed thrown by the weird maneuver and was all over the place. Unfortunately he musta taken a breath calmed down and then eviscerated me lol.

again just like irl Il2 bears this out. But my sitatuikn makes this impossible. I type fast etc but no one will evem fly with me because no headset.  When i get a job again Ill fix this issue but now it is what it is.  No squad will recruit someone with. No headset and I dont blame anyone for it. Its a huge handicap

Friday night 2 yaks working together dogfought me twice and both times waxed me easy amd they played my game as the 109 and went vertical (prolly ti lure me)  it was the wingman. Second time at least I got 1 20mm on one of them. 

 

the key is to not give up. There are some players who when are being pursued just do a snap to 6 and fly backwards anticipating your shots, very gamey, imho. Some vvs folks I've seen do some interesting speed reducing maneuvers which are kind of cool, but again very gamey because they all fly backwards looking at you following them, i.e. very wide turn followed by a very quick snap to the opposite direction. If you want to practice that stuff - go to Berloga, that's really what it's for - trying to learn to shake the guy off your 6. There ain't no magical maneuver that would work even 50% of the time... may be 25% chance is all you get. But that alone is enough to survive against the average "un-trained" or rusty players.

[Sublime]

3 hours ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

1) Get this book: Fighter Combat, by Robert Shaw.

2) Join a squad.

 

We'd take you on but have recruited a bunch of new sticks recently and are busy getting them up to speed.

Actuallt read Shaws book thanks though

[Ribbon]

@Sublime you should  really install teamspeak TS3 and get a mic, training trough chat and typing is not quite an option.

Tips and what you do wrong needs to be described well and in detail, simply it's million times easier to train on voice comms.

TS3 is free software and mic you can  get for few bucks

[Sublime]

Oh quite. I havent had the need before.  Learnings more a refinement thing at this point - its not like Im totally new to sims and stuff. I.m just not achieving the kills I wanted. I got a nice kill today in a La5FN then heavily damaged another dora to the point if I hadnt been damaged by a 2nd and hit a tree the pilot said he was screwed.  My practice on its own is producing results.

Again that said though until I get a job - right now the money I do getfrom odd jobs I cant justify on extra gaming stuff with a son etc

Youre right though that and the ir or vr issue has vecome apparent as major issues needing to be adressed by me down the road 

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, Sublime said:

Oh quite. I havent had the need before.  Learnings more a refinement thing at this point - its not like Im totally new to sims and stuff. I.m just not achieving the kills I wanted. I got a nice kill today in a La5FN then heavily damaged another dora to the point if I hadnt been damaged by a 2nd and hit a tree the pilot said he was screwed.  My practice on its own is producing results.

Again that said though until I get a job - right now the money I do getfrom odd jobs I cant justify on extra gaming stuff with a son etc

Youre right though that and the ir or vr issue has vecome apparent as major issues needing to be adressed by me down the road 

 

I survived without having any sort of head tracking for ages but I have to join the chorus, now that I have it, I'm converted. It's really a game changer though I stress its not strictly necessary.

 

If you do have a few dollars to spare...Delanclip is the IR head tracking solution I'm using and it's seemingly both one of the best options and one of the cheapest. The clip attached to a headset, using a PS3 Eye camera (part of one of their packages), and the free OpenTrack software combine together to do a great job of things. https://delanengineering.com/

[Mauf]

From my experience: People don't teach you because they don't want to but because they can't teach you really. The problem is that a lot of what makes a "good" pilot good is practically ingrained in them due to extensive use over the years. What many of us do is by now unconscious and we can't point it out even if we wanted to. It's the knowledge of "This enemy moves like that, I know I can get to him" or "Nah, this enemy is too fast, turning angle too sharp, I can't reach him". Same with gunnery. E.g. by now, most of my shots are taken by feeling rather than counting crosshair diameters. "This pattern of flight path, aspect and size of the enemy plane feels good -> fire". This stuff is trained up mostly without teaching but by a long process of weeding out "what works" and "what doesn't".

 

Basically, get out there and fly. Fly, fly and fly more. Berloga is a good place to start because it allows for a very quick learning rate on many aspects. Enemies there are more foolhardy though and navigation is mostly a non-issue, so the big open mission servers are important as well. If you feel brave and resilient, record your flying, successes and most importantly failures, put it on youtube and ask people here for feedback. You'll get the snide remarks here and there but most are nice chaps who'll point you in the right direction.

[Ribbon]

1 hour ago, Mauf said:

From my experience: People don't teach you because they don't want to but because they can't teach you really. The problem is that a lot of what makes a "good" pilot good is practically ingrained in them due to extensive use over the years. What many of us do is by now unconscious and we can't point it out even if we wanted to. It's the knowledge of "This enemy moves like that, I know I can get to him" or "Nah, this enemy is too fast, turning angle too sharp, I can't reach him". Same with gunnery. E.g. by now, most of my shots are taken by feeling rather than counting crosshair diameters. "This pattern of flight path, aspect and size of the enemy plane feels good -> fire". This stuff is trained up mostly without teaching but by a long process of weeding out "what works" and "what doesn't".

 

Basically, get out there and fly. Fly, fly and fly more. Berloga is a good place to start because it allows for a very quick learning rate on many aspects. Enemies there are more foolhardy though and navigation is mostly a non-issue, so the big open mission servers are important as well. If you feel brave and resilient, record your flying, successes and most importantly failures, put it on youtube and ask people here for feedback. You'll get the snide remarks here and there but most are nice chaps who'll point you in the right direction.

Training in duels help a lot, and later discussing what did you do wrong and what you could do better in certain situation, what maneuver to perform against different enemy aircrafts.

At least thats how we do it in EAF, and results are noticable.

 

[Mauf]

31 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

Training in duels help a lot, and later discussing what did you do wrong and what you could do better in certain situation, what maneuver to perform against different enemy aircrafts.

At least thats how we do it in EAF, and results are noticable.

 

True to a certain level. The problem often is the application. It's what many people call the "and then it clicked for me"-moment. Training with others and discussion only gives you pieces. Putting it all together so people get this little "enlightenment" can't be communicated by my experiences. You just have to expose people over and over until "it clicks" for them.

[CountZero]

 

On 5/11/2019 at 10:13 PM, Sublime said:

I thougbt of putting this in MP but it said to advertise servers.

I dont have voice chat but type fast and this doesnt have to be super involved.

Wiuld anyone experienced be willing to arrange to meet me on an MP server - dogfight me and tell me what Im dojng wrong or give me pointers between matches?  This doesnt have to be a super serious commitment - just lookiing to step up my game. 

Thanks!

i can try to do what you wont, just pm me what time you plan to do it, just instal ts3 and you can join me on ts3 without mic so i can easy comunicate to you and you can replay in chat, rest is easy

[Sublime]

2 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

i can try to do what you wont, just pm me what time you plan to do it, just instal ts3 and you can join me on ts3 without mic so i can easy comunicate to you and you can replay in chat, rest is easy

Excellent idea thanks count! I got some stuff related to hopefullt getting this job

 Ill pm you later

Thx

9 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I survived without having any sort of head tracking for ages but I have to join the chorus, now that I have it, I'm converted. It's really a game changer though I stress its not strictly necessary.

 

If you do have a few dollars to spare...Delanclip is the IR head tracking solution I'm using and it's seemingly both one of the best options and one of the cheapest. The clip attached to a headset, using a PS3 Eye camera (part of one of their packages), and the free OpenTrack software combine together to do a great job of things. https://delanengineering.com/

Ty

6 hours ago, Mauf said:

From my experience: People don't teach you because they don't want to but because they can't teach you really. The problem is that a lot of what makes a "good" pilot good is practically ingrained in them due to extensive use over the years. What many of us do is by now unconscious and we can't point it out even if we wanted to. It's the knowledge of "This enemy moves like that, I know I can get to him" or "Nah, this enemy is too fast, turning angle too sharp, I can't reach him". Same with gunnery. E.g. by now, most of my shots are taken by feeling rather than counting crosshair diameters. "This pattern of flight path, aspect and size of the enemy plane feels good -> fire". This stuff is trained up mostly without teaching but by a long process of weeding out "what works" and "what doesn't".

 

Basically, get out there and fly. Fly, fly and fly more. Berloga is a good place to start because it allows for a very quick learning rate on many aspects. Enemies there are more foolhardy though and navigation is mostly a non-issue, so the big open mission servers are important as well. If you feel brave and resilient, record your flying, successes and most importantly failures, put it on youtube and ask people here for feedback. You'll get the snide remarks here and there but most are nice chaps who'll point you in the right direction.

Well.. Ya I cant exactly argue this because much much is ingrained in me from other sims and helped.

But wait.. No I sort of disagree.  I do. Because the more I fly the better I get and Ive had noticeable improvements in certain planes just from advice from others.

It can only go so far and wont replace practice but it does help. Like my new fav non mp thing isnt careers now its a qmb with me vs 8 ace level spit ixs or some ridiculously good (to me) late war plane and I try to hang on as long as possible.  Progress is being made MP though. 2 kills in 2 days. Lmao.  Few assists. That one kill in the La5FN against the 190s was particularly memorable 

4 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

Training in duels help a lot, and later discussing what did you do wrong and what you could do better in certain situation, what maneuver to perform against different enemy aircrafts.

At least thats how we do it in EAF, and results are noticable.

 

I have ti agree here.  I unxerstand what Mauf is saying and its true and Il2 isnt real life. 

Buuut IRL duels is one of the oldest and most tried methods of improving fighter performance and tactics.

(Top gun red flag bla bla)

@ShamrockOneFive holy cow ty thats actually fairly affordable too esp when i get working again

[Sublime]

Count ill msg you shortly. 

aeroace ty for msging me on taw and doing those duels on berloga with me. I learned a lot and your criticisms are completely valid

Also flew the i16 against him for fun first time ever a few matches. My god idk why you all love that thing. No wonder they called it the donkey lol. I stalled if i looked at the screen funny 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Sublime

[=EXPEND=Dendro]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:59 AM, 77.CountZero said:

 

i can try to do what you wont, just pm me what time you plan to do it, just instal ts3 and you can join me on ts3 without mic so i can easy comunicate to you and you can replay in chat, rest is easy

Sublime.... CountZero is one of the best out, don't miss the opportunity he is offering you. Nice one CountZero! 

[Sublime]

Oh Im not its just I havent dl'd TS. Count also has helped me out MAJORLY before as well.

The verdict last night was Im a good shot not so good pilot and I turnfight too much.  I knew that. It helped immensely though - by the 10th match or so I feel I was doing BnZ much more properly and I hadnt been xtending near enough whatsoever.

We had a good time.  Im gonna DL TS so I can listen to Count. I gotta get a headset waiting to hear about this job tbe backround went fine (lol no comment) and I gave tge drug test yesterday thatll be fine soo Im rlly hopeful.

Without the headset its still *very viable* on berloga. Ill DL TS so I can listen this afternoon EST and Ill shoot @77.CountZero a PM.  He.ll probably end up being disgusted and quitting at my abilities heh heh

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

Oh Im not its just I havent dl'd TS. Count also has helped me out MAJORLY before as well.

The verdict last night was Im a good shot not so good pilot and I turnfight too much.  I knew that. It helped immensely though - by the 10th match or so I feel I was doing BnZ much more properly and I hadnt been xtending near enough whatsoever.

We had a good time.  Im gonna DL TS so I can listen to Count. I gotta get a headset waiting to hear about this job tbe backround went fine (lol no comment) and I gave tge drug test yesterday thatll be fine soo Im rlly hopeful.

Without the headset its still *very viable* on berloga. Ill DL TS so I can listen this afternoon EST and Ill shoot @77.CountZero a PM.  He.ll probably end up being disgusted and quitting at my abilities heh heh

Didnt tought ts3 would be big problem, its just easyer then both of us typing and i tought you already have some speakers no need for mic, but you dont have to have it if you wont we can do all on chat only.

The way i see it with something like this time is only problem, as we both probably dont play on same times, so i just need to know when you have time to play on what days so i can see when that is good for me and we can meet to do what you planed to do so when your rdy you just PM and well arange something no hury. Also dont worry about your abilitys you already have right mentality by asking for help to faster advance to be able to enjoy MP insted trying alone longer way and probably just end up quiting on MP.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[Sublime]

3 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Didnt tought ts3 would be big problem, its just easyer then both of us typing and i tought you already have some speakers no need for mic, but you dont have to have it if you wont we can do all on chat only.

The way i see it with something like this time is only problem, as we both probably dont play on same times, so i just need to know when you have time to play on what days so i can see when that is good for me and we can meet to do what you planed to do so when your rdy you just PM and well arange something no hury. Also dont worry about your abilitys you already have right mentality by asking for help to faster advance to be able to enjoy MP insted trying alone longer way and probably just end up quiting on MP.

 

Ty no TS is no big deal brother I just been busy and havent downloaded. I will wen Im home

[JG7_RudeRaptor]

I wont be available until Sunday but if you see me on WOL server send me a msg. I'm on US central time. 

 

Myself I need to get back to basics. I become dependant on missiles. Lost some of my dog-fighting skills. ?

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by JG7_RudeRaptor

[Sublime]

20 minutes ago, JG7_RudeRaptor said:

I wont be available until Sunday but if you see me on WOL server send me a msg. I'm on US central time. 

 

Myself I need to get back to basics. I become dependant on missiles. Lost some of my dog-fighting skills. ?

 

Awesome im hdg home now.

A great guy gifted meCLOD and it does some stuff better than IL2 actually i prefer Il2 still and am shocked CLOD doesnt have a dynamic campaign?? I always heard it did? I hesrd it had a few camps and theres 2 (blitz edition) this guy also generously is sending me a ir and headset!! Unasked! Unfortunately hes in europe so itll take awhile but its huge. Ill save for VR but some trackir device Im sure will drastically help me dogfight moreso since its so important to keeo eyes on target for BnZ.

Im ficussing on 109s and then 190s.109s because I like Luftwaffe planes not just cuz theyre easier but yes it helps. But also I have the mist 109s and theyre in ALL ETO theaters. Fws seem a good back up choice.  So 109s are now my spirit plane. And i will focus on that. I like the LA5FN and Yak1B (7B more) and a20. I havent tried the BoBP planes and Im sure when the tempest and p38 are out itll change things.

The 109 seems the best choice though. I turn too much and need to learn ti fight better but all agree Im a good shoot not as good flier. A 109 or 190 id a good plane for that skill. Ideally one pass and extend is all you want anyways!