IL2 COD BLITZ vr support when?

[YoYo]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:47 PM, Buzzsaw said:

As we have said previously, TF would like to implement VR.

 

Based on preliminary tests, we think this is possible, but it will take time.

 

At this stage it will be 2021 at the earliest.

Great!!!! ? TY!!!

[Lusekofte]

In my mind VR is hyped up a great deal. I find the whole thing to be at stoneage level. 
I hesitated myself by shelving the VR goggles, but once I did strap of that moist toilet thingy, and started to fly cod , I found it quite nice. So I fly a little DCS too now without it. 
I will not miss VR that much, when you get it lighter and improved I might be a bigger fan. And I flown with Reverb Pimax and mostly Rift S. 
So do not tell me one cannot do without. I hope by the time VR is implemented it is a lighter version on marked, that is more comfortable

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

In my mind VR is hyped up a great deal....

 

No, flat screen is boring and immersion is very poor compared 3D picture with good resolution (like HP Reverb for example with 130% of Steam resolution, so more than 2500pxt). I tested a little Tobruk with my Track IR and dont want to back to to this poor impressions again . This is a revolution like the appearance of Track IR on the market once (and remember that version 1 of TiR wasnt perfect either).

Edited August 14, 2020 by YoYo

[Lusekofte]

Well All on his own. I just do not see it. I was not that impressed by Reverb contra Rift S and none of them is particular comfortable having on. I returned thevReverb and stuck with Rift S. Simply because the improvement was not worth the money, and I found going back to TrackIr as easy. I will however look at renewal when VR has evolved into acceptable size and improved overall 

[1PL-Lucas-1Esk]

I had a chance to fly a Flying Circus in a VR for a few minutes. Even though that was a Mk.I HTC Vive with poor resolution, the overall feeling was mind blowing. So, I think I understand the players who use the VR daily in their simming.

[OBT-Mikmak]

I put away my HP Reverb in its packing box too.

The negative points of VR vs Track IR + flat screen are too problematic in my case.

Checking your six is an over stretching of neck, the external visual is worst than on flat screen and that deteriorate my SA (not acceptable for me).

[simfan2015]

I am real curious about the hp reverb g2! 

Never tried VR (my pc not up to it yet). 

Having read so much about it I would really at least like to try it myself. 

But I am afraid the many problems may crash the (my) party. 

That's why I believe these early Sim VR adopters are... Brave... Yes, kinda like Heroes in a sense! 

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, 1PL-Lucas-1Esk said:

I had a chance to fly a Flying Circus in a VR for a few minutes. Even though that was a Mk.I HTC Vive with poor resolution, the overall feeling was mind blowing. So, I think I understand the players who use the VR daily in their simming.

It is overwhelming at first. Then you get used to it then you look at it as we do now with the 14 “ screens back in the eighties. 
I like using it but it is not that much of a game changer as many want to make it. It got huge disadvantages too

[-332FG-Buddy]

@216th_LuseKofte with all due respect, and I mean that, that's ur opinion, and I respect that .....for me and a few others* its game changing. For us it is the opposite, I wish I could go back to play 5.0, I really do, especially with all the issues going on with GB.  I just can't.   I will however purchase 5.0 like I did with blitz and hope VR comes like they said it would.  Honestly ur one of the few I've met that pick track ir over VR, not saying there is not more like you, but the majority of people I've met and seen discuss this have had s similar view to mine.

Edited August 15, 2020 by -332FG-Buddy

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

18 minutes ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

@216th_LuseKofte with all due respect, and I mean that, that's ur opinion, and I respect that .....for me and a few others* its game changing. For us it is the opposite, I wish I could go back to play 5.0, I really do, especially with all the issues going on with GB.  I just can't.   I will however purchase 5.0 like I did with blitz and hope VR comes like they said it would.  Honestly ur one of the few I've met that pick track ir over VR, not saying there is not more like you, but the majority of people I've met and seen discuss this have had s similar view to mine.

 

@-332-Buddy.

Bought Tobruk extension for the same reason as you are intending, to support TF and in the hope that VR would be added (as I think VR is fantastic) .

Ended up trying COD Tobruk as an exercise in curiosity/ boredom and discovered that I really like it.   Currently split my time 50:50 between the two sims. 

 

If you are going to purchase it, give it a run and see if your experience ends up being the same as me.

[-332FG-Buddy]

@RAAF492SQNOz_Steve I got rid of my trackir though lol 

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

1 hour ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

@RAAF492SQNOz_Steve I got rid of my trackir though lol 

Opps!  

Before I discovered VR I had purchased one of these

https://delanengineering.com/products/head-tracking-delanclip-fusion/

Much cheaper than TrackIR, works well, and wireless to boot! 

 

Had thought of selling it, when I got the Rift S, but now it has it has become a keeper.

 

[LLv34_Temuri]

Having snap views work in VR is one way to level the differences between VR and headtracking. It is used in Aces High, and apparently it works nicely for checking your six in VR.

[-332FG-Buddy]

58 minutes ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

Opps!  

Before I discovered VR I had purchased one of these

https://delanengineering.com/products/head-tracking-delanclip-fusion/

Much cheaper than TrackIR, works well, and wireless to boot! 

 

Had thought of selling it, when I got the Rift S, but now it has it has become a keeper.

 

I might buy that! A friend wants to get I to flight sims and I can get them one too! I see the clip, but do u need a webcam, or an it tracker?

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

1 hour ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

I might buy that! A friend wants to get I to flight sims and I can get them one too! I see the clip, but do u need a webcam, or an it tracker?

Yes, you need a Webcam. If you click on the"What else is needed" tab at the bottom of the link I posted, it covers the additional requirements.

They supply a modified PS3 camera (at additional cost). I got PS3 camera off them and have had no issues with it tracking the IR LED's.

 

They also detail free head tracking software options. Allow a bit of time for setting up the software, it took me an hour or so to configure it to my satisfaction.

If you have used this type of software previously,  setup time may be shorter. 

 

Some monitors have a webcam that can be used but I never bothered to try and get that option working.

 

Pretty sure there is a thread somewhere on this forum that details how to setup free head tracking software.

Edited August 15, 2020 by RAAF492SQNOz_Steve
addendum at bottom of reply

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

While I fully agree that VR can be a game changer and truly immersive, it still has some issues that can not be denied. For me those issues are largely the cumbersome experience with the headset, limited FOV and graphics fidelity and total cost to get it running well. 

 

To break down a bit. Cumbersome as you have to deal with yet more cables, peeking to use your keyboard/peripherals and the weight does strain you over time because of the movement required to look around compared to a tracker. Not to mention they are hot to wear too. And if you need the beacons their installation have some things to consider as well. 

 

FOV and graphical fidelity. FOV has gotten better, but I can still cover more of it with a tracker and less movement required. It is improving though. Graphical fidelity. Varjo VR-2 Pro has been the only VR headset so far that has had such a clear picture that I could read every single text and gauge in a cockpit without leaning in or tinkering with any settings. But the FOV was narrow. 

 

Cost to use VR. And with use I mean that you can crank everything up while maintaining a solid FPS above the required 90 or so. No compromises or workarounds, crank it up and play. So the system has to be a serious powerhouse. Pushing all those pixels requires a lot more than we have now. And that comes with a hefty price tag. We are talking about a rig costing well over 2-3k US/EUR. The new GPU/CPU releases wont be cheap..

 

TL;DR VR is the future, but needs some work and refinements. 

[Lusekofte]

6 hours ago, -332FG-Buddy said:

@216th_LuseKofte with all due respect, and I mean that, that's ur opinion, and I respect that .....for me and a few others* its game changing. For us it is the opposite, I wish I could go back to play 5.0, I really do, especially with all the issues going on with GB.  I just can't.   I will however purchase 5.0 like I did with blitz and hope VR comes like they said it would.  Honestly ur one of the few I've met that pick track ir over VR, not saying there is not more like you, but the majority of people I've met and seen discuss this have had s similar view to mine.

Let me clarify, if cod had VR with reasonable view to instrument I would use the goggles. But having a second screen for instrument and not having the goggles on was a good experience and considered it as a brake. Now I use trackIr and second screen half the time in DCS too. Not much since I have not got the time. If I where to fly GB I will put the VR goggles on again.

But when it come to cod and some modules in DCS I do not miss it. I am glad I have VR, but can do without in this particular sim. 

I was not intentional trying to make TF not make the VR implementation. I just tried to say you might like cod without it. I flown GB exclusive with VR since I got it. Tried 3 types. I was not sure how I would take it going back to monitors, but it was fine

[OBT-Mikmak]

9 hours ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Having snap views work in VR is one way to level the differences between VR and headtracking. It is used in Aces High, and apparently it works nicely for checking your six in VR.

 

I feel that snap views are totally unatural in a VR experience and spoil the 3D immersion.

 

[LLv34_Temuri]

1 hour ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

 

I feel that snap views are totally unatural in a VR experience and spoil the 3D immersion.

 

Point being that with snap views you don’t have the ”head tracking users have the advantage” whine.

[Rei-sen]

8 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Not to mention they are hot to wear too.

This is the major issue for me. I put a small fan in front of my face in order to have somewhat comfortable experience. However, when the weather is hot, like it is now, even the fan doesn't help. VR is great, but it still has a lot if things to improve. The resolution is already good on Reverb G2 and Pimax 8KX, then there should be a decent FOV and good ergonomics. 

[YoYo]

On 8/15/2020 at 12:59 AM, 216th_LuseKofte said:

It is overwhelming at first. Then you get used to it then you look at it as we do now with the 14 “ screens back in the eighties. 
I like using it but it is not that much of a game changer as many want to make it. It got huge disadvantages too

 

Huge disadvantages its a flat, boring 2D screen with his poor immersion around you ?. I have very good expensive monitor which was used when I used Track IR only - 27’, 144Hz, G-sync, 1440p, Acer Predator, home cockpit (universal), TiR5. Now I can use ... 14’ monitor to see menu only, I dont want to back to this poor immersion for me compared flight 2D with TrackIR (I did it for tested Toburk - and that is something unacceptable to me now), back to VR sims very quickly. This is much fun than home cocpit also (which I have too and which was build in few years and cost me a lot) and best monitor ect. Never come back from VR way. Im in near the real cockpit with whole 3D environment around - this experience is much better than anything on a 2D monitor. This way has a name also - The future of flight simming :). But for sure, if you like it use 2D sceen and you for example feel bad (like dizziness, ect, VR isnt for all for sure) use 2D screen BUT pls notice - this topic isnt about what is the best solution but "when VR support will be in Blitz/Tobruk". Now I see a lot of offtopic here about what was the first - „chicken or egg”. ? If someone wants continue this I think the best idea is to open new topic (if someone wants to run disscusion what is the best for flight simmers). Ciao! 

Edited August 16, 2020 by YoYo

[ZiggyZiggyStar]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

 

Huge disadvantages its a flat, boring 2D screen with his poor immersion around you ?. I have very good expensive monitor which was used when I used Track IR only - 27’, 144Hz, G-sync, 1440p, Acer Predator, home cockpit (universal), TiR5. Now I can use ... 14’ monitor to see menu only, I dont want to back to this poor immersion for me compared flight 2D with TrackIR (I did it for tested Toburk - and that is something unacceptable to me now), back to VR sims very quickly. This is much fun than home cocpit also (which I have too and which was build in few years and cost me a lot) and best monitor ect. Never come back from VR way. Im in near the real cockpit with whole 3D environment around - this experience is much better than anything on a 2D monitor. This way has a name also - The future of flight simming :). But for sure, if you like it use 2D sceen and you for example feel bad (like dizziness, ect, VR isnt for all for sure) use 2D screen BUT pls notice - this topic isnt about what is the best solution but "when VR support will be in Blitz/Tobruk". Now I see a lot of offtopic here about what was the first - „chicken or egg”. ? If someone wants continue this I think the best idea is to open new topic (if someone wants to run disscusion what is the best for flight simmers). Ciao! 

+1

[Lusekofte]

@YoYo read my latest post, all I say is, it is not as bad going back as you think. 
I still fly VR in GB

[kraut1]

Here my preliminary VR Settings for Rift-S (+Opentrack, VorpX)

Since I installed Desert Wings on Tuesday I flew all missions (testing and campaign) with the current preliminary settings I tried out with Blitz:

FOV=90°, Tracking with Opentrack, VorpX

Starting procedure:

-Start in order: Oculus, Opentrack / Start Tracking, VorpX, CLOD

-fly only one mission

-Quit the programs in inverted order.

Use CLOD with monitor for adjusting settings and full mission builder

 

Disadvantages:

-no stereoscopic vision (would be important for cockpit interior / landscape)

-I can not guarantee that these settings works on other computers because CLOD and VorpX are complex / sensitive programs.

-FOV90° maybe not sufficient for online / multiplayer dogfights

-after ending a mission (escape pressed) the mouse icon is invisible and you have to save your campaign results and quit CLOD without seeing the mouse, but it works

 

What I like with these settings:

- other planes seen from the Cockpit (with FOV90° you can see many details while flying in formation)

-tracer ammo, explosions

-I like the immersion during dogfights, FOV90 is sufficient for offline dogfights. With this fov I survived 6 JG27 campaign missions (shot down in the 7th) and scored 6kills with realistic settings (no helpers like icons...

-you can operate the interactive cockpit switches and levers either with the mouse or when mouse mode is active by looking at a control and pressing a joystick button that is defined as left mouse key (I have one on my Hotas)

Best Regards

 

Blitz - Desert Wings preliminary VR settings V1.zip

[Mysticpuma]

From last night TFS livestream VR confirmed for the start or early 2021 ?

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

Imagine sales figures if VR was implemented in the first place.

[Redwo1f]

56 minutes ago, Slegawsky_VR said:

Imagine sales figures if VR was implemented in the first place.

 

Ummm, I think you grossly over-estimate the actual ownership numbers. User-base ownership on steam still hasn't even eclipsed 3% yet   - though granted within the flight sim community in particular would have a higher ownership percentage, it's still going to be a very small minority (at the moment). Some people just seem to overestimate the size of this group because they themselves own a VR or keep reading posts from those (still early adoption phase) that are very vocal asking for it (which is understandable because it's success is contingent upon developers including support for it). It's probably the future (and sales are continuing to grow), and if you have it right now that's great, good for you   - but let's be real about the market size.

[SIA_Target]

though granted within the flight sim community in particular would have a higher ownership percentage

 

And isn't Tobruk a flight sim? Seems to me there are enough sales of VR gear to warrant continual development of same. I'm one of those waiting to see if VR is implemented in COD before I pull the trigger.

[Redwo1f]

11 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

though granted within the flight sim community in particular would have a higher ownership percentage

 

And isn't Tobruk a flight sim? Seems to me there are enough sales of VR gear to warrant continual development of same. I'm one of those waiting to see if VR is implemented in COD before I pull the trigger.

 

Yes, as I said.  Not going to argue that point whatsoever. But let's say it happens to be 5x the market segment vs other game segments (reasonable (?)) - that still makes it an under 15% share. Worthwhile? - certainly. Growing? - yes. Should include it? Probably (though still a gamble for small team with less resources). I just take issue that it currently is, at this very moment in time,  a big market segment, that is all.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Redwo1f

[simfan2015]

I sincerely doubt it will do a lot to increase sales in this case.

But I do think simmers are ... the #1 VR owners and surely not only 3 percent or so (FWIW I will soon get a VR headset too :-)) !

In the long run (say +5 years from now ?) VR will indeed be *mandatory for every sim*.

I do hope of course that, by then, (1C) TFS is still around and CloD DW will have it ! 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by simfan2015

[SIA_Target]

Sorry, I don't agree with your percentages. Not that I have any idea of the real market share of VR users in flight sims, but I would have to say that it's at least approaching half of those who frequently fly on BOS. In fact, I left COD only because I purchased VR, no other reason. But for actual numbers, I don't really know, and unless an erstwhile study is done I don't think anyone can. Perhaps it was done and I haven't seen it. One thing I am convinced about, as with TrackIR, so too with VR. It's an advancement that has yet to see it's peak.

Edited August 23, 2020 by TWC_Target

[Redwo1f]

18 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

Sorry, I don't agree with your percentages. Not that I have any idea of the real market share of VR users in flight sims, but I would have to say that it's at least approaching half of those who frequently fly on BOS. In fact, I left COD only because I purchased VR, no other reason. But for actual numbers, I don't really know, and unless an erstwhile study is done I don't think anyone can. Perhaps it was done and I haven't seen it. One thing I am convinced about, as with TrackIR, so to with VR. It's an advancement that has yet to see it's peak.

 

I guess we will agree to disagree here - and I see the same arguments within racing sim threads on steam ( many of those are quite nasty, unfortunately). I just highly doubt that VR ownership is 15x greater here (flight sim) than the general population - but I digress. It may be the future (probably), or it may not (if you compare it to the actual rate of growth in sales to 3D TV's over time in a similar time frame (actually go compare) you might find it a bit more humbling -- so clearly it's still in early adopter stage (and in that stage things can still go either way -- you need titles, titles don't need you (*yet*)). 

 

Anyway, enjoy what you have and I hope you have a good experience with it  

Edited August 23, 2020 by Redwo1f

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

 

48 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

it's at least approaching half of those who frequently fly on BOS.

 

A recent flight sim community survey has VR at 12 percent. There's probably some selection bias involved (for comparison, nine percent report hardware cockpits built or purchased). Unfortunately I doubt there are any better datasets available to the public.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[simfan2015]

Sim VR Only 12 percent!!!??? 

If so then the main reason for this must be the price of entry! 

DCS VR reportedly requires a very expensive pc. 

To me, personally of course, it is plain simple... I will get a new pc for sims asap (years overdue) . Then I will get the hp reverb G2 and... If it does not do what I hoped for ? 

...then there are, without a doubt, quite a number people I know (very well) who always appreciate... a present ! 

In other words... TFS what are you waiting for!? ?

Edited August 23, 2020 by simfan2015

[SIA_Target]

Just to clarify, and not wanting to beat a dead horse, but comparing TV sales to VR sales is comparing apples to onions. There's probably a  TV in every house by now, therefore the sales of TV is greatly more pronounced than a toy that only a smattering of the population as a whole entertains itself with. And when I say toy I'm referring to PC games of any genre. Now, whittle that number down further and you enter into the flight sim niche. We are a minority within a small population. Esp. when you consider how many fans of video games are of the console type.

 Funny, I won't spend the money for a colossus TV, but I'll spend more than I probably should for a game. And as the previous poster said, will in the future just to stay ahead of the curve. Nvidia isn't helping this terrible cycle either.

 

[Redwo1f]

37 minutes ago, TWC_Target said:

Just to clarify, and not wanting to beat a dead horse, but comparing TV sales to VR sales is comparing apples to onions. There's probably a  TV in every house by now, therefore the sales of TV is greatly more pronounced than a toy that only a smattering of the population as a whole entertains itself with.

 

 

Yes, completely true - that is why I wasn't asking the comparison to actual numbers in volume of sales per year  (I am well aware of market size differences and therefore volume differences)- but simply, as I stated, the rate of growth in sales per year. - its rate of growth in sales on a year to year basis vastly exceeded what we are seeing with VR until it tanked.

 

Edit: forget this - bad reference data - didn't realize one was forcast sales - my bad, and appologies on this particular point.

(...but wow, did they ever think 3D TV's were going to be the best thing ever! lol)

Edited August 23, 2020 by Redwo1f

[SNAPKronovanX]

It's all a non-issue for me; I can't wear any VR headset for more than about 30 minutes without becoming so nauseated I feel like I'll vomit. While I'm perfectly fine with a TrackIR for hours. I can't name my condition, but my ophthalmologist can - my daughter has it, my 2 sons don't. No one has to convince me of the immersion of it - both my sons have different flavors of VR (Playstation VR, & Occulist Rift) and I've experienced the visual-virtual glory of both.  Personally, I hope VR never becomes a mandatory requirement for flight sims, because the day head-tracking support is dropped is the day I'll have to stop flying them.  I certainly don't fault those who embrace it for wanting it in their sims.

 

Anyhow, nice that everyone here is being quite civil about the discussion. I've made similar comments on other forums and been heavily condescended to,  lectured to, called a bull$h!ter or a defect for doing so. I guess there's enough of a WOW factor in VR that discussing it brings out the worst side in some fans.

[=420=Syphen]

On 8/23/2020 at 3:44 PM, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

 

A recent flight sim community survey has VR at 12 percent. There's probably some selection bias involved (for comparison, nine percent report hardware cockpits built or purchased). Unfortunately I doubt there are any better datasets available to the public.

 

That polling data came from Airliner / General aviation specific forums. The results would have been more skewed towards cockpit hardware and VR ownership if they had included DCS and IL2 communities. In the groups I fly with online for IL:GB & DCS, we are about 50% VR ownership.  Informal polls on THESE forums showed around 30% ownership in responses. I suspect 1C knows who is using VR. It'd be neat to see them post those numbers. Either way, it's a growing segment. Jason specifically said in a recent pod-cast that VR was the biggest change up to the simming community in years - sort of giving it a nod of seeing fair adoption. 

[SIA_Target]

I agree with you Snap, I like VR but I wouldn't want to see the community suffer lose because of lack of choice. Just like the snap view or panning options, all tools need to be retained. Now if they'd only allow an in game panning view (BOS) for  VR users, I'd be a most happy camper. My 60+ YO neck has issues.?

[YoYo]

On 8/23/2020 at 3:59 PM, Mysticpuma said:

From last night TFS livestream VR confirmed for the start or early 2021 ?

 

 

Great news and TY! Im ready to test it, iven in beta team  if you need me.