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Motherbrain

My IL-2 Great Battles Fantasies

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Posted (edited)

Here are some of my fantasies for Il-2 Great Battles.

 

I know most of these ideas are never going to happen. But these are still things I'd love to see in Il-2. Please don't take much of this
topic too seriously, please.

 

- Il-2 Battle of Britain expansion.

 

A Battle of Britain expansion with an English channel map and plane set.

 

il2_bob.thumb.jpg.b43642fdc802ad85fe06493f72853991.jpg

 

- Il-2 Spanish civil war

 

I can't claim to know much about the Spanish Civil War. But it sounds interesting and some really interesting aircraft
appeared to have participated. I'd be really interested to see this obscure theater. It seems both sides of the war used

the same aircraft in some cases so it would be a simple matter of having skins for each side for each plane. Unusual.

 

il2_scw.thumb.jpg.42e798828dd8e59357ea7314b501c1eb.jpg

 

- Airships

 

I know these have been brought up time and again and are highly unlikely to ever happen. But still, it's just not a WWI flight sim without them in my opinion.
There hasn't been a decent simulation of an airship since the one in Dawn of Aces back in 1995.

 

airshipsvol.3.thumb.jpg.996b61026c2621081b798e8b95c9bfb6.jpg

 

- Dream aircraft set

 

A selection of aircraft I'd seriously like to see added. Either as a set or as individual collector aircraft. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more non-combat aircraft. Or even

straight up civilian aircraft. Though I'm sure many will disagree with that.

 

1769671283_il2_bob-Copy.thumb.jpg.7f01c87252ada9113bdd36bf68f8bd14.jpg

 

- IL-2 combined forces and first-person shooter mode

 

Yes, I know this is absurd. But the maps in IL-2 are so massive and they are so impressive to look at especially at ground level,
I've often wished I could just walk around in them. I know the biggest reason against this would be that it would give
IL-2 an M rating for blood and gore. But it's still fun for me to fantasize about being pinned down in a fox hole with my Mosin–Nagant
or Karabiner 98k while tanks rumble towards me when suddenly a player in an Il-2 or Hs-129 blows them up. Having some decent bots would
mean the game would have nearly infinite replayability. Being able to box off certain portions of the map with the mission editor, and placing
spawn points and command posts and the like could lead to countless "maps" and scenarios. Game modes like conquest, survival and capture the flag, etc could be added.

Having new objects for the mission editor like sandbag installations, barricades, sheds, barns, and other buildings you could enter, hedgehogs, machine gun and anti-tank guns would make this even better. Personally, I think Il-2s graphics would be just fine. I wouldn't be asking for photo-realistic graphics or anything, and the game's default AI vehicle and soldier models would be just fine in my opinion.

 

2019_4_15__23_18_39.thumb.jpg.cc3ea96efda1c75962eed980dca8030c.jpg

 

Also, I wish the "AI only vehicles" could be playable. While Il-2 Tank crew would add "high fidelity" vehicles with interiors
and better simulation, I'd be 100% content to control the AI vehicles with a simple "point and shoot" 3rd person HUD interface. Especially the AAA trucks,
or even just the transport trucks and cars would be nice to putter around and explore in. And being able to enter and exit these vehicles in first person would be
even better.

 

2019_4_15__23_15_50.thumb.jpg.ceba0c438dbe605dcf6c7e4020d594a1.jpg

 

- Real Time Strategy aspect in Il-2

 

What this means is a mode where you don't control units directly, rather you control them from the map giving certain air, land and sea units different commands,
for example, placing a waypoint for a group of 109s at a set altitude and when they get there either attack air targets, ground targets, patrol, land at nearest
airfield, etc. You can't switch to control these units directly, but you can spectate individual units. Being able to direct multiple groups of AI units while individual players control tanks and aircraft would make multiplayer more interesting IMO and would be fun to play around with in single player too. Or even being able to direct both sides, and simply setting a bunch of AI planes against each other and then setting back and enjoying the carnage would be fun too in my opinion.

 

2019_4_15__21_54_53.thumb.jpg.3f6174bd60ca0da99c27db179d019253.jpg

 

- Repairing and rearming at airfields

 

This I think should actually be implemented. Having a point you can taxi up to on an airfield, and being required to shut down your engine and open your canopy
for example, then holding a hotkey to bring up a small interface to repair your aircraft, rearm, change your paint scheme, or even change aircraft in the same
scenario without exiting or respawning (basically what DCS has only it would be better). This could help in multiplayer but could also make quick missions more fun
as well.

 

2019_1_3__1_56_50.thumb.jpg.45dfaa921dc9627a9d29ef014f942d5e.jpg

 

- Closing thoughts

 

Il-2 is such an amazing flight sim and now even a tank sim. The maps are nicely crafted and the physics and aircraft modeling is top notch.
But the Il-2 engine just seems to have so many fun possibilities. I'd love to see more of a "sandbox" aspect to the game kind of like DCS.
I know since the vehicles have to meet a certain quality standard, information on super obscure vehicles may be difficult or even impossible to
find. But personally, I'm indifferent if some of the more obscure stuff isn't 100% perfect or by the numbers. But I know a lot of people here would
disagree.

 

And again, please don't take offense at this. These are just mostly fantasies and ideas I have about the sim.

 

 

Edited by Motherbrain
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These are some great ideas. I would especially love a GB Battle of Britain set (I don't care for CLoD that much). But, the Spanish civil war might be a problem since the 109 A was leaps and bounds ahead of the planes it was up against. It was many of the Luftwaffe pilots training grounds for practicing air combat since their planes out preformed the competition.

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Yah it seemed like a very lopsided sort of war. But I keep seeing it referenced especially in the development stores of WWII German aircraft and the Luftwaffe.

Also if it was absolutely required that all the aircraft for the set had to meet the high-quality standard finding information on them would be an even more difficult task then the Japanese aircraft for the Pacific campaign seem to be.

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I agree, researching that would definitely be a difficult task. If you're interested in learning more pick up the book Lords of the Skies by Dan Hampton, they go through an entire few chapters on the Spanish Civil war and how it shaped the Luftwaffe's pilots and aircraft.

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2 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

A Battle of Britain expansion with an English channel map and plane set.

 

il2_bob.thumb.jpg.b43642fdc802ad85fe06493f72853991.jpg

Not to burst your bubble, but I don't think this would be the plane set if there ever was an IL-2 Battle of Britain. Lots of important planes would be missing.

The list IMO would be:

 

RAF                                              Luftwaffe

Spitfire Mk.1                               Bf 109E-4    

Hurricane Mk.1                          Bf 110C

Beaufighter Mk.1                       Ju-88A-1

Wellington Mk.1C                      He 111H-2

Collector                                      Collector

Blenheim Mk.IV                          Ju-87B-2

Defiant (AI)                                  Do-17 (AI)

 

 

With the Walrus and Do-18, they would likely be part of individual collector planes, the latter for sure.

Hope this helps.

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They are sleeping right now, but the little junkyard dogs should be along soon to crush you.  

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1 hour ago, Novice-Flyer said:

 

RAF                                              Luftwaffe

Spitfire Mk.1                               Bf 109E-4    

Hurricane Mk.1                          Bf 110C

Beaufighter Mk.1                       Ju-88A-1

Wellington Mk.1C                      He 111H-2

Collector                                      Collector

Blenheim Mk.IV                          Ju-87B-2

Defiant (AI)                                  Do-17 (AI)

 

I'm really opposed to the concept of AI only planes in general. Its what I hated most about Il-2 1946 and other sims, to be honest. But yeah the Wellington would be really interesting.

 

12 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

They are sleeping right now, but the little junkyard dogs should be along soon to crush you.  

 

Should I care? Because I don't. 😒

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@Motherbrain Are you reading my mind?

Most of what your fantasies are mine. Especially Bob and combined arms.

I trully believe IL2 GB will never really be  IL2"GB" without the Great Battle of Britain.

For me, the future of gaming in this kind of sim is combined arms. Being able to ride on a bike with a mg42 should be fun! Using Kar98k and Mosin Nagant as well!

Being able to control tank is a major step in this direction for me. 

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

They are sleeping right now, but the little junkyard dogs should be along soon to crush you.  

Everyone has their own hopes for the future expansion of this series. Mine don't align with the OP of this thread. It doesn't mean I'm here crush anyone it just means I have no interest in the SCW or the BoF unless they lead to a BoB scenario. For every guy who comes up with his idea of the next best expansion, someone else will see it differently. Personally, I liked Jason's tease about a possible 1946 jet add on. I doubt the majority would admit to much interest in that. Different strokes as they say.  

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All I'd really like to see is an engine capable of handling a big map and a couple of hundred Fortresses and Mustangs/Thunderbolts for Reich Defence missions.

Or

An actual proper night-fighter module. Functioning radar (ground and air), night that can't be gamma-gamed, with hordes of Lancs (and a few Mossies) vs 110s, 88s and 219s. :)

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Please, I would love to have Battle of Britain on GB universe

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

All I'd really like to see is an engine capable of handling a big map and a couple of hundred Fortresses and Mustangs/Thunderbolts for Reich Defence missions.

Or

An actual proper night-fighter module. Functioning radar (ground and air), night that can't be gamma-gamed, with hordes of Lancs (and a few Mossies) vs 110s, 88s and 219s. :)

 

I think it would introduce a really awesome aspect if we had functioning early radar systems, but the problems with this are:

  1.  Difficulty of implementing the system (though I have absolutely no doubt the fantastic devs will work it out eventually!)
  2. Radar was ineffective against smaller targets, and was mainly used to find bomber targets, which leads me to point 3:
  3. In its current state, the IL-2 engine cannot handle large amounts of AI. This means that night campaigns would be lackluster, and the only places you'd find realistic simulation of the actual usage, would be in well co-ordinated MP missions with many players manning bombers. However, they'd be manning night-bombers, the gunners could hardly see a thing, and the only person really enjoying SHOOTING would be a radar equipped mossie/Me 410.

So unless the devs find a way to produce cohesive and communicative AI bomber formations, not much we can hope for.

 

On the point of the AI, perhaps a hive-mind-esque steering AI? I don't know much about programming AI, but maybe formations could be placed in the editor specially (or could be connected with some kind of flag saying "these bombers are supposed to be formation controlled" with their own sort of hive-mind AI that steers and directs all the bombers at once, then a separate, hopefully less taxing AI/section of code can be used to convert these directions into control surface movements on individual planes (thus you have multiple instances of less taxing conversion and collision avoidance AI, and one more taxing AI that steers the entire formation together, directing aircraft into box formations and closing the box up if a bomber falls by instructing another bomber to move into this new gap.)

 

You could also then separate the large AI down into a non-intelligent NAV section, that instructs the formation to follow a course set by the mission maker (in QMB, this could be an AI made course, since this instance of AI is not being used at runtime of the actual simulation, just in the menus, meaning it is running separate from all the other AIs that run in the sim of the formation), and an intelligent "formation controller" who instructs planes relative to a coordinate "box" that the formation is controlled in. Bombers are then ordered to co-ordinates within this box.

 

The NAV code moves this box across the map, and is essentially the "bomber formation", for all intents and purposes in the backend.

 

Movement within the box is actuated by the AI of each plane as each plane then uses AI to construct a path to a co-ordinate set that it is given by the formation controller, with the requirements that the path must not collide with any other bomber. Then the other part of the AI converts this path into a set of control surface movements and power changes, and the bomber slots itself into place within the formation.

 

However, once in formation, each plane's overall mapwide movement is controlled by the formation controller, which instructs planes directly (e.g. all planes climb, all planes throttle 75%). For turns, it would be a little more complex, as in a (for example) right hand turn, the leftmost bombers will turn a wider circle than the rightmost. This is (I believe) solved by a circular motion expression utilising the box co-ordinates. The expression could state that as your x-coordinate (assuming the box is oriented such that the Y axis is vertical in relation to the bomber roofs, the X axis spans from left to right, and the Z axis from front to rear, meaning 0,0,0 is at the bottom front left of the box) increases, your turn rate increases linearly (since all the bombers need the same angular velocity, which is a product of their linear velocity and distance from the focus of the turn). Then each plane AI can interpret this and fly the turn correctly, just like a formation.

 

This is a gross oversimplification, since the bomber could be slotting in with a loitering formation, meaning it has to take the curve of the box's flight path into account, but this is my idea of a solution to the problem. It almost certainly won't work, because I have no idea how taxing this is, or how taxing it is relative to the current implementation of bomber AI.

 

Again, just brainstorming and practicing thinking about algorithms. I should probably do my CS coursework instead but oh well!

 

 

Edited by TheTacticalCat
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Since this is another "impossible dream" thread, I'll add mine...

Anywhere but Europe, most specifically, China/Burma/India, or New Guinea.  I'm tired of seeing Bf 109s, and want to go anywhere they are not.  If we absolutely have to have the Luftwaffe, then I would like the Med, but we can't have nice things, because CloD.

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37 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Since this is another "impossible dream" thread, I'll add mine...

Anywhere but Europe, most specifically, China/Burma/India, or New Guinea.  I'm tired of seeing Bf 109s, and want to go anywhere they are not.  If we absolutely have to have the Luftwaffe, then I would like the Med, but we can't have nice things, because CloD.

 

Dev's are spoilt for choice that's for sure, if it flies i'll buy it is pretty much where I stand.

 

Somebody lean on Disney to give Jason and crew the rights to make IL2 X-Wing v Tie Fighter and I'll be all over that too ;)

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42 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I'm tired of seeing Bf 109s, and want to go anywhere they are not.

No 109s in the Battle of Khalkhin Gol....just saying! ;)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, =11=Herne said:

 

Dev's are spoilt for choice that's for sure, if it flies i'll buy it is pretty much where I stand.

 

Somebody lean on Disney to give Jason and crew the rights to make IL2 X-Wing v Tie Fighter and I'll be all over that too ;)

Man, the budget afforded them would be a dream come true I'd imagine! just think what they could do with a huge influx of cash.

Edited by Rjel

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I'm usually not convinced by a particular (set of) airframe(s) alone, but I'd love the SCW just for the Do-17 E/F and early series SB-2. They are both lookers for sure.

Probably not going to happen.

 

I'm just happy there won't be a Battle of Britain instalment. Covered to death by all sorts of media and lacking dynamic in my opinion.

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Posted (edited)

How would you convince 1cgs board that any one of thouse 3 is good to make, i just dont see it in todays game market that any of thouse would make profit. CloD has BoB and is still in development by 1cgs supporting it, and others are just to unatractive and unsafe options that you would risk spending 1-2years of 20-30 ppls job on it. I dont know what people think is going on as you can see with BoBp that they had to go for bestes and fasteses and sexyestes airplanes to try to get some boost and there is still players that dont wont to buy it...

Edited by 77.CountZero

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I am with you brother ...tho I do believe if & when CLOD Blitz updates to 5.0 most of my BoB desires will be met EXCEPT for VR which it really needs! It will be interesting to see what they do with the North Africa map and new aircraft.

I know I ‘m not alone in wishing for some form of Pacific theater, but judging by the length of time it has taken us to get where we are with Great Battles, I don’t think I’ll be around when this is finally addressed ( esp. fully functioning carriers...) Oh well I can always play the old I’ll-rPacific Battles. Enhanced with B.A.T. Mods when I need a fix.

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On 4/16/2019 at 1:08 AM, Nil said:

I trully believe IL2 GB will never really be  IL2"GB" without the Great Battle of Britain.

Je ne sais pas, Je crois que as long as a properly done Battle of Britain is in the IL-2 series, then there’s no real problem with that. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, Motherbrain said:

 

- IL-2 combined forces and first-person shooter mode

 

Yes, I know this is absurd. But the maps in IL-2 are so massive and they are so impressive to look at especially at ground level,
I've often wished I could just walk around in them. I know the biggest reason against this would be that it would give
IL-2 an M rating for blood and gore. But it's still fun for me to fantasize about being pinned down in a fox hole with my Mosin–Nagant
or Karabiner 98k while tanks rumble towards me when suddenly a player in an Il-2 or Hs-129 blows them up. Having some decent bots would
mean the game would have nearly infinite replayability. Being able to box off certain portions of the map with the mission editor, and placing
spawn points and command posts and the like could lead to countless "maps" and scenarios. Game modes like conquest, survival and capture the flag, etc could be added.

Having new objects for the mission editor like sandbag installations, barricades, sheds, barns, and other buildings you could enter, hedgehogs, machine gun and anti-tank guns would make this even better. Personally, I think Il-2s graphics would be just fine. I wouldn't be asking for photo-realistic graphics or anything, and the game's default AI vehicle and soldier models would be just fine in my opinion.

 

 

 

Also, I wish the "AI only vehicles" could be playable. While Il-2 Tank crew would add "high fidelity" vehicles with interiors
and better simulation, I'd be 100% content to control the AI vehicles with a simple "point and shoot" 3rd person HUD interface. Especially the AAA trucks,
or even just the transport trucks and cars would be nice to putter around and explore in. And being able to enter and exit these vehicles in first person would be
even better.

 

 

- Repairing and rearming at airfields

 

This I think should actually be implemented. Having a point you can taxi up to on an airfield, and being required to shut down your engine and open your canopy
for example, then holding a hotkey to bring up a small interface to repair your aircraft, rearm, change your paint scheme, or even change aircraft in the same
scenario without exiting or respawning (basically what DCS has only it would be better). This could help in multiplayer but could also make quick missions more fun
as well.

 

 

 

 

These are my top three "long term" hopes for iL-2 and the direction the development will head into creating. iL-2 has vast swaths of unused and detailed land that would be just so perfect for the use of combined arms and an overall ww2 warfare simulation. No other game has brought the full pie of fighting in WW2 beyond "WW2 online" and that game although larger in scope is very, dated. Although iL-2 could never match that massive scale of such an online game it could however match the authentic experience. That is, if enough resources are dedicated to such a bold evolution of the game over a long period of time. I dream about seeing planes in the air, tanks/trucks on the ground, and infantry all fighting to defend or secure an objective. iL-2 would make the perfect platform for such an all rounded solid experience in such a combined arms approach.  

However, in the meantime and with a less dreamy stance on the reality of what the game is today. I believe we need to work on improving the game and expanding gameplay opportunities where we can without long months of dedicated game development. Currently it would be possible to control the large amounts of AI vehicles already in game and it would be possible to control the various fixed defensive positions in the game. I believe that is the extra mile we should take in improving the gameplay experience and broadening the scope of the game from where it is today. Tank crew has opened up many new possible avenues for the game to explore and I hope the developers will take a serious look into such potential. 


Though in the meantime, problems like this will continue from a lack of player controlled fixed defensive weapons and no correct counter measure in place to defend from it. Currently the only counter measure to stop such a tactic, is to fly from another airfield and hope the tank can be destroyed through aerial attack. Such an option is slow and not optimal. If players could use local AI vehicles/tanks/fixed positions from the airfield itself. Then this threat could quickly be dealt with because such forces would be at a airfield for such a purpose. Thus controlling AI vehicles has a very solid need outside of what I have already stated in my thread from the suggestion section titled "Drivable AI ground vehicles". (feel free to add additional inputs there)
 


@E69_geramos109 much respect for highlighting the issue and I'm a fan of your methods for locating problems in the game. 

Edited by Geronimo553
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On 4/15/2019 at 9:28 PM, Motherbrain said:

- Repairing and rearming at airfields

 

This I think should actually be implemented. Having a point you can taxi up to on an airfield, and being required to shut down your engine and open your canopy
for example, then holding a hotkey to bring up a small interface to repair your aircraft, rearm, change your paint scheme, or even change aircraft in the same
scenario without exiting or respawning (basically what DCS has only it would be better). This could help in multiplayer but could also make quick missions more fun
as well.

 

Congratulations, at least one of your (and mine) hopes will be implemented! This change has been confirmed in the latest dev diary post. I cannot wait to see the feature completed and introduced into the game. 



"Of course, this feature is linked to another - the possibility of field repair. It is also being worked on and most of it will be usable for aircraft as well. The crew will be able to repair the tank systems in the field as long as the tank is not completely destroyed. In addition, the mission designer can add special repair and ambulance tracks that accelerate this process both to single and multiplayer missions. Later, during Summer, we plan to add refueling and ammo trucks to replenish the fuel, oil, water and ammo reserves"

 

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Yes please. Cliffs of Dover is quite undesirable; A Battle of Britain expansion would be amazing.

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