Combat Box by Red Flight

[-SF-Disarray]

How prevalent is this abuse of injectors? Is this a case of forcing the majority of people who use them to play the way you want them to in order to stop 4 or 5 people from seeing things from very far away? Further, how much of an advantage is seeing a contact from extreme range really? If someone knows that there is a plane, or planes, 70 Km from them they can't do much with that information.

[Talon_]

2 hours ago, -SF-Disarray said:

How prevalent is this abuse of injectors? Is this a case of forcing the majority of people who use them to play the way you want them to in order to stop 4 or 5 people from seeing things from very far away? Further, how much of an advantage is seeing a contact from extreme range really? If someone knows that there is a plane, or planes, 70 Km from them they can't do much with that information.

 

Sadly it's getting a little more blatant than that:

 

[BraveSirRobin]

That should definitely be banned.

[KoN_]

Just goes to show how the spotting has definitely taken a turn for the worst , if reshade is being used as a cheat . 

On comms is quite comical now . ``Its a P38 , no its a 190 , no it a dam P51 help . `` too late im dead . !! ?

[Alonzo]

45 minutes ago, ACG_KoN said:

Just goes to show how the spotting has definitely taken a turn for the worst , if reshade is being used as a cheat . 

On comms is quite comical now . ``Its a P38 , no its a 190 , no it a dam P51 help . `` too late im dead . !! ?

 

That's ID, not spotting. I'm pedantic because the two are very different issues and we should be clear what we're talking about.

[RedKestrel]

Am I the only one who has found the spotting to be improved in the last few patches? 

 

Regardless, if people are using injectors like that that’s an egregious exploit. We’re not talking sharpening or gamma adjustment here. That’s crazy.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

6 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

Sadly it's getting a little more blatant than that:

 

I have always been curious if this is possible. I am very very good at spotting and IDing enemies, even with 3d Migoto gone now that we have better zoom feature. But there have been so many instances where I thought it was impossible for someone to see me but they did and in the back of my mind I thought to myself, "they must have a mod turning German planes pink or yellow". It was a joke before but now I see that it's possible. How did you find out someone was doing this?

[Fritz_Faber]

I love Mitchells Men … so much time to observe the high altitude Combats ?

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Fritz_Faber

[LLv24_Kessu]

Hi Talon,

 

This image with a neon green airplane - can you please provide details how this was achieved with Reshade? So that community can repeat the test  and confirm the cheat.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by LLv24_Kessu
added word "neon"

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

Hey! I've read in the last SRS update that Combat Box was using SRS and I was expecting this moment for a while as missions sometimes are very unorganized and people is just flying around minding their own business.

 

Do you have any guide for frequencies? 

[Sketch]

13 minutes ago, LLv24_Kessu said:

Hi Talon,

 

This image with a neon green airplane - can you please provide details how this was achieved with Reshade? So that community can repeat the test  and confirm the cheat.

 

 

We would rather not reveal how to achieve the Reshade result. I assure you that this effect is achievable, and you can toggle Reshade off and on with a simple button. You'll just have to believe us.

 

 

4 minutes ago, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

Hey! I've read in the last SRS update that Combat Box was using SRS and I was expecting this moment for a while as missions sometimes are very unorganized and people is just flying around minding their own business.

 

Do you have any guide for frequencies? 

We have mostly be using SRS for our weekly events, and Discord for open comms. However, you're free to use SRS anytime you want; these are the channel settings we have been using for our events:

 

 

SOCIAL CHANNEL: FM 30 (everyone can connect to this channel)

 

Blue Team:

• Leadership Channel: AM 100
• Squadron A: AM 200 to AM 210
• Squadron B: AM 211 to AM 220
• Squadron C : AM 221 to AM 230

 

Red Team:

• Leadership Channel: AM 150
• Squadron A: AM 300 to AM 310
• Squadron B: AM 311 to AM 320
• Squadron C : AM 321 to AM 330

Edited June 18, 2020 by Sketch

[LLv24_Kessu]

Hello Sketch,

 

Are you the real owner of the image?

Reshade is being prevented from use so that reason is not enough. It's a normal procedure for any claimed cheat or hack exposed to explain how it's achieved (for credibility), especially after admins in update 4.007 have enabled servers to stop the use of this hack (it's safe to expose details).

 

A still image is so easy to paint into any colour you wish that it's no proof of anything.

Edited June 18, 2020 by LLv24_Kessu
added cedibilty and safe to expose

[Sketch]

8 minutes ago, LLv24_Kessu said:

Reshade is being prevented from use so that reason is not enough.

First, we haven't banned injectors yet. As @Talon_ mentioned, we're leaning heavily into banning them in the future, based on our own research and research from other server admins. As you stated, server admins are starting to ban or think about banning  injectors - not just the Combat Box sever, but other servers as well. So, yes the above image is very possible to achieve. Second, who said that's not reason enough? You? The developers? Santa Claus? (You see where I'm going with this?) As a member of the Combat Box admin team, I say it's plenty of reason. As I said before, I will not reveal how it's achieved - even if we decide to block injectors in the future. 

[LLv24_Kessu]

Hello Sketch

 

maybe I'm bit critical - but a still image is not enough for me (though - I do look like Santa Claus ? ).

 

The issue I have with still image is that they are so easy to manipulate - clearly someone has drawn the arrow there so the image has been undeniably touched.

1st issue - repainting the plane in question is so simple that a 6 year old could do it.

2nd issue - rest of the image looks like normal IL2 colors - Reshade works on all colors of the image. (for example, check the video link below)

https://streamable.com/1clqt3

 

okay - do the 2nd best thing - post a video with neon green plane flying - that is few steps more difficult to fake, (well - one could fly around in neon green skin... but takes a bit more work to create that skin)

 

If  server Admins including you, believe the image is real - why is reshade still allowed in your server?

 

 

[Kampfpilot_JG3]

i have been saying it time and time again on this forum that there is something going on just by analyzing results of the top scorers and using simple logic and common sense . In my last post here about 10 days ago i mentioned  an ace who joined the mission i was playing which had just 5 enemy players and he went in and shot them all down in 10 mn flat then left the mission , just like that . Is this normal ?

[PreyStalker]

9 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

That's ID, not spotting. I'm pedantic because the two are very different issues and we should be clear what we're talking about.

 

It's an important distinction. The problem at the moment is that good ID requires anti aliasing ON, but good spotting requires anti aliaising OFF. To be clear, spotting for me means contacts at the limit of visibility - about 10-15km

 

I found a good compromise with all AA OFF and just a minimum amount of FXAA using Reshade (ONLY FXAA, nothing else).

 

What we need is finer in game control of how much AA is applied. That way people can choose what works best for their set up.

 

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

2 hours ago, Sketch said:

First, we haven't banned injectors yet. As @Talon_ mentioned, we're leaning heavily into banning them in the future, based on our own research and research from other server admins. As you stated, server admins are starting to ban or think about banning  injectors - not just the Combat Box sever, but other servers as well. So, yes the above image is very possible to achieve. Second, who said that's not reason enough? You? The developers? Santa Claus? (You see where I'm going with this?) As a member of the Combat Box admin team, I say it's plenty of reason. As I said before, I will not reveal how it's achieved - even if we decide to block injectors in the future. 

 

I have used Reshade for years as I believe the in-game colorization is sub-par.  I have no idea how I could replicate the lime green plane effect, nor would I want to know.  I know Reshade well enough to know that not all Reshade shaders can produce a lime green plane.  Is it possible to detect and exclude only Reshade users who are using the specific shader(s) within Reshade that can produce the effect you say is possible?

 

It would be a real shame to lose Reshade capabilities.  Please don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Talon_]

1 hour ago, LLv24_Kessu said:

The issue I have with still image is that they are so easy to manipulate - clearly someone has drawn the arrow there so the image has been undeniably touched.

 

I drew the arrow on with Snipping Tool when I cut the image to post here. The image was provided to me by the admin of another popular server and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

 

I have enough knowledge of graphics programming to know that Reshade and other injectors have access to the depth buffer (or Z-buffer) in the rendering pipeline. Using this, the injector can determine how far away other objects are and highlight them based on range.

[LLv24_Kessu]

Hi Talon,

 

I appreciate your civil answer and all the work server admins and developers do - thank you!

Also, I'm not here to discredit you or anyone else.

And for the record - I do like reshade, have used it in the past and how it makes game look.

 

My point is rather - if still images like above are used to claim Reshade as an exploit - then those images are far too easy to manufacture by any drawing program for them to prove anything - and I hope the community does not believe still images like that on their face value only.

 

 

 

 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

People clearly aint doing it then there stats would show it. 

Its not a freaking MMO filled with trashy kids & soccer mums.
Maybe less than 5% of this community even think about cheating and even less goto do it. 

better off pulling the pic n posts so people dont get an idea they didn't have. 
people need to stop focusing on the wrong end of the bloody stick. 
Its not player Ego Versus Player Ego. 
Its Team A Versus Team B

Graphically the game is near unplayable for many without it.
There are no Good Quality Anti Aliasing Options Without it.
Ingame Anti A is all Trash.

Not to mention MANY use it for Colourblind mode also.
Lets just leave them Blind? 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by =TBAS=Sschatten14

[Matthias_PDX]

Modding the base game for your convenience or personal tastes and entering into the competitive multiplayer arena is already very shady (no pun intended). I fail to see how any could be surprised by the admins actions. 

[RedKestrel]

I have seen video of reshade exploits posted in another thread. Not green like this, but turning all contacts jet black, switching on and off like a light switch. Basically turning things into 'icons on'. The post that was made showing it was probably deleted as I can't find it now. Probably any 'evidence' posts that detail how this exploit was done would also be deleted, or just make it easier for people to do it if the admins don't choose to ban it on the server. 

 

Wings of Liberty and Finnish Virtual Pilots have both now banned injectors like Reshade, Finnish made that call just yesterday, and mentioned receiving video evidence of forests and clouds being able to be seen through as the reason for their decision. Not sure about other servers. What that means in practical terms is that players who rely on this exploit are likely to congregate on servers that allow it. What was once a minor nuisance of the occasional cheat, can potentially become much more of a concentrated problem. At the risk of being folksy, you don't want to be the last farmer to harvest your crops unless you like feeding the deer.
 

It's not like this is some unique crusade the admins are on , they have proceeded in good faith since the option was there and allowed injectors to continue to be used so players working at a disadvantage for whatever reason can deal with their shortcomings (e.g. the Pimax zoom issue). They didn't pull the trigger on this as soon as the patch dropped without feedback or consideration, they are proceeding on the evidence they had and are being transparent with us about their thought process and where they are leaning. 

 

[HunDread]

20 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I have seen video of reshade exploits posted in another thread. Not green like this, but turning all contacts jet black, switching on and off like a light switch. Basically turning things into 'icons on'. The post that was made showing it was probably deleted as I can't find it now.

 

 

Here you go:

 

On 6/11/2020 at 10:05 PM, --YOZHIK-- said:

 

 

 

[RedKestrel]

1 minute ago, HunDread said:

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

That's actually a different video than the one I saw but shows the exact same behaviour.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Just because a person with Reshade might figure out how to make a plane lime green, as you say they can, does not mean the majority of people with Reshade have that level of knowledge nor if they do, would bother cheating with it.  And for the ones that do, they cannot hide their planes from me.  If some moron wants  to fly around with a Martian sky and horrible graphics to spot a plane 1 or 2 km further than me, fine, I say let him.  It's his loss.  Don't ruin the server for the rest of us.

Is there an end to this?  The next step will be to lock custom skins as some squads may make all their planes lime green for easy ID.
 

A MUCH bigger issue is the random invisible plane bug.  There is NO protection against it.

[RedKestrel]

27 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Just because a person with Reshade might figure out how to make a plane lime green, as you say they can, does not mean the majority of people with Reshade have that level of knowledge nor if they do, would bother cheating with it.  And for the ones that do, they cannot hide their planes from me.  If some moron wants  to fly around with a Martian sky and horrible graphics to spot a plane 1 or 2 km further than me, fine, I say let him.  It's his loss.  Don't ruin the server for the rest of us.

Is there an end to this?  The next step will be to lock custom skins as some squads may make all their planes lime green for easy ID.
 

A MUCH bigger issue is the random invisible plane bug.  There is NO protection against it.

Well, there are at least two exploits documented just in this thread. The lime green highlighting, and the ultra black spots seen through clouds and forest and apparent contact enlargement (and that one is a video). So we know that two separate people have figured out two different ways to exploit reshade to make spotting impossibly easy. Three, actually, because I have seen a similar video to the one posted above but by a different person. This isnt a marginal improvement achievable by tweaking a sharpen setting to see a little farther, watch the video posted above by @HunDread. It's basically 360 degree radar that can be turned off and on at will. It's not someone using reshade to get spotting that is closer to what they think was real life.
 

The invisible plane bug is likely a product of the shaky netcode, which the admins can do nothing about.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

3 hours ago, HunDread said:

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

I see how horrible the in game spotting is without reshade.  And everything is this god awful grey.  So ugly.  So so ugly.  

Are you going to ban my 4k screen next.  Well you can't have it.  ?

[thatguy]

So in summation, the argument for allowing injectors is: Cheaters should be allowed to cheat because some people like pretty colors

[Barnacles]

 

5 minutes ago, thatguy said:

So in summation, the argument for allowing injectors is: Cheaters should be allowed to cheat because some people like pretty colors

If you take LSD then ALL colours are pretty, especially infra-green and ultra-yellow

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Well, there are at least two exploits documented just in this thread. The lime green highlighting, and the ultra black spots seen through clouds and forest and apparent contact enlargement (and that one is a video). So we know that two separate people have figured out two different ways to exploit reshade to make spotting impossibly easy. Three, actually, because I have seen a similar video to the one posted above but by a different person. This isnt a marginal improvement achievable by tweaking a sharpen setting to see a little farther, watch the video posted above by @HunDread. It's basically 360 degree radar that can be turned off and on at will. It's not someone using reshade to get spotting that is closer to what they think was real life.

 

The invisible plane bug is likely a product of the shaky netcode, which the admins can do nothing about.

 

I acknowledged all that you mention in my post.  My response is, so what?  Their actual advantage is negligible.  If they can see me at 12km vs 8km and start coming for me I will still see them within MY visual range.  Fine by me.  If you think ridding the server of Reshade will rid the server of cheaters, think again. 

 

3 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

And for the ones that do, they cannot hide their planes from me.  If some moron wants  to fly around with a Martian sky and horrible graphics to spot a plane 1 or 2 km further than me, fine, I say let him.  It's his loss.  Don't ruin the server for the rest of us.

BTW, no one addressed my first post:
 

9 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I have used Reshade for years as I believe the in-game colorization is sub-par.  I have no idea how I could replicate the lime green plane effect, nor would I want to know.  I know Reshade well enough to know that not all Reshade shaders can produce a lime green plane.  Is it possible to detect and exclude only Reshade users who are using the specific shader(s) within Reshade that can produce the effect you say is possible?

 

[RedKestrel]

1 minute ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

I acknowledged all that you mention in my post.  My response is, so what?  Their actual advantage is negligible.  If they can see me at 12km vs 8km and start coming for me I will still see them within MY visual range.  Fine by me.  If you think ridding the server of Reshade will rid the server of cheaters, think again. 

 

BTW, no one addressed my first post:
 

 

In that video you can see ALL contacts at a glance (through clouds) outlined starkly. Its a big SA advantage at the very least.

As to your first post, the option for the server is to allow all injectors, or none. If they could block just the problematic ones there would be no debate.
 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

It's would be good to see:

 

1. Some of the basic sharpening and color shaders within Reshade incorporated into IL-2 GB.  This would be similar to how, after banning 3Dmigoto, they incorporated more zoom features.

 

or

 

2. A simplified Reshade for IL-2 that IL-2 servers could recognize as safe.

 

Until then, losing Reshade sucks and is a giant step backward for the community.

[HunDread]

2 hours ago, VBF-12_Snake9 said:

Are you going to ban my 4k screen next.  Well you can't have it.  ?

 

Me? No. I'm definitely not going to do that. I shared the video because it was closely related to the current topic here. I have my opinion on Reshade on vs. off but have never shared it in any of the forum threads.

[thatguy]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I acknowledged all that you mention in my post.  My response is, so what?  Their actual advantage is negligible.  If they can see me at 12km vs 8km and start coming for me I will still see them within MY visual range.  Fine by me.  If you think ridding the server of Reshade will rid the server of cheaters, think again.

 

Translation: We can't ban all cheaters so we shouldn't even try

 

Quote

BTW, no one addressed my first post:

I think you vastly overestimate what server admins can control, or even have any sort of visibility on

 

Your bone should be with the devs for doing a lackluster job at.. their jobs

[Talon_]

4 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Is there an end to this?  The next step will be to lock custom skins as some squads may make all their planes lime green for easy ID.

 

We will categorically never ban custom skins.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

55 minutes ago, thatguy said:

 

Translation: We can't ban all cheaters so we shouldn't even try

 

 

One should only translate if they can read.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

I think it's funny how some of the same folks who bitched about 3d Migoto because SOME people MIGHT use it to gain advantage all of the sudden are mad and posit that reshade should not be banned because only SOME people MIGHT use it to gain an advantage.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

2 hours ago, thatguy said:

So in summation, the argument for allowing injectors is: Cheaters should be allowed to cheat because some people like pretty colors

Here is our last squad night.  I run reshade, as you can see no cheating.  Just makes the shitty grey look better.  

 

Don't care about cheaters personally.  Most of them suck at playing the game.  

[Alonzo]

12 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I have used Reshade for years as I believe the in-game colorization is sub-par.  I have no idea how I could replicate the lime green plane effect, nor would I want to know.  I know Reshade well enough to know that not all Reshade shaders can produce a lime green plane.  Is it possible to detect and exclude only Reshade users who are using the specific shader(s) within Reshade that can produce the effect you say is possible?

 

As far as I know, no. It seems like the IL2 game engine can detect "someone injected something into my DX11 pipeline" but not what the something is (ReShade, Migoto, some other framework) and even less how the something is configured (ReShade in color-enhancement mode vs ReShade in being-a-cheating-bastard mode).

[KoN_]

8 hours ago, HunDread said:

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

That makes sense thank you .