Jump to content
LUZITANO

IL-2 Battle of Normandy (BOBP cousin)

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Following the Battle of Bodenplatte and expanding on the West front in this late period of war I come through this post to suggest the:
 

IL-2 Battle of Normandy
 

Set of aircraft

P-51B (Mustang Mk III)

P-47D-22

Spitfire Mk IXc

Mosquito FB Mk VI  

B-17G

Fw 190 A-6 

Me 109 G-6/AS    

Me 109 G-6/Late 

Me 410 B

Do 217 K-2

+

Typhoon Mk Ib/Late (as an individual early extra collector for Normandy) 

 

Artificial intelligence

B-26 Marauder 
V-1   Rocket     (Can be used in individual missions, campaigns, online battles where they can interact with the scenario)

Others airplanes related to Normandy

Douglas C-47 (It will probably be developed as a separate collector that can be used in many battles including Normandy)

 

Collector Aircraft options and thoughts 
P-51B was a variant that fought in Europe and the Pacific

Do 217  with Fritz X. I remember there being such options in the Packs of the old IL-2-1946

Me 410 because is the 410!

 

Other planes thoughts
Mosquito FB Mk VI capable of attaching RP-3  rockets

Me 109 G-6/Late is a 109G-6 modified in late 1943 with MW-50, G-10 tail and Erla canopy 

During the Battle of Normandy the 109G-6/Late was the version in use. The G-14 version entered service late in this battle, but only became numerically expressive in the autumn of 1944

The 109G-6/AS have late tail, canopy and fuselage. Was a very fast variant, but the engine BD 605 ASM was "short life". Few 109G6/AS were developed

Spitfire Mk IXc can be the F, LF (M63) and LF (M66) up to 25lb boost

Map area (400x350 km)
overload2.jpg.0cc1aa1ddc30e0586f59a52591282d05.jpg

Map specifications
From Utah until Le Havre we have 100 km distance. From Utha until Paris the distance is 270 km 

Spoiler

paris.thumb.jpg.c385299f112069ac49787c772b4b9e94.jpg

 

D-Day map

Spoiler

normandy.thumb.jpg.81fd2d138a1855cfa38f32aa6ff92aa1.jpg

 

Reasons to do
Taking advantage of the extensive research done at the Battle of Bodenplatte I believe that it would be easier to also research the French maps of Normandy
Many of the aircraft are already created in their bubble canopy versions, P-47, P38... Also the Spitfire IX.. All these planes of Normandy could be used in Bodenplatte, so I believe it is so important to create this battle. It would complete the late set of aircraft and maps from the middle of 1944 until the last days of the war with Bodenplatte

Logistical issues with the  airplanes choice
Fw-190A-6: This particular plane was used in the Battle of Kursk
Me-109 G-6 Late: This variant could be used in an eventual offensive of Minsk (operation Bragation)

Eventually the allies have more planes than the Germans, which limits Germany's options in developing battles. The tropical variants of 109 could create many new battles in the desert, but the European variants of 109 are divided between the East and West Fronts
Most likely, part of the allied aircraft will be developed and sold separately... 

Other battles
Normandy and the Minsk offensive take place in the same period... I've already suggested one at Finland ... For others battles I have not made the suggestion yet , but I've already thought about how to close the European set between 40 and 45

In total I planned 6x battles for Western Europe and at least 2x for Eastern Europe (Finland and Berlin)


It will be necessary to make a decision on how to spread the 109 and 190 variants between Normandy and Byelorussia. A tank battle for Operation Bragation could solve this issue

Here is the suggestion to discuss and make the necessary modifications ;) 

Edited by LUZITANO
  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

To get it out of the way: I'm absolutely not interested in a Normandy pack and I think it's one of the most overrated/misinterpreted scenarios in the flight sim community.
 

That said:

  • The map is way too small. It would have to cover at least the Le Mans area in the south, northeastern France, the west of Belgium, and South East England
     
  • 10 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

    Set of aircraft

    Typhoon Mk Ib/Later had to be a premium as it's an integral part of the BoBP planeset

    Mosquito FB Mk XVIII (or A-20G) this Mosquito variant was hardly related to the Normandy campaign; the A-20G doesn't work without the J => B-26 or Mosquito FB VI

    Spitfire Mk IXc & Fw 190 A-6 meh.

    Me 109 G-6/Late (Erla Canopy and MW-50) Not interested at all, I bought the G-6 premium and the G-14 with BoBP

    Me 109 G-6/ASM  a footnote to the scenario

    Me-410 B-2 only if the campaign would begin in early 1944

    Do-217 (?) Ju 188 and Ju 88 S were more numerous and their units weren't withdrawn as fast

Edited by =27=Davesteu
clarification
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

To get it out of the way: I'm absolutely not interested in this and I think it's one of the most overrated/misinterpreted scenarios in the flight sim community.

I did not put a map size or limit. I just showed the distances between the beaches of Normandy and some cities :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no way the IL-2 GB engine could possibly model the Normandy invasion fleet, making this a 'battle of' scenario lacking the most significant event on the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that Bagration or Normandy are probably the most logical next steps.

 

But if a Normandy module will be next, I think it would be better to use a map that shows parts of southern England too, so we can use the map for the whole period from 1940 to summer 1944. This would be much more interesting and we could create all kinds of different scenarios, from Circus operations to Operation Steinbock.

 

9 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

There is no way the IL-2 GB engine could possibly model the Normandy invasion fleet, making this a 'battle of' scenario lacking the most significant event on the map.

The game engine can handle large numbers of ships and other ground objects quite well, as long as they don't have a complex AI. I've created test missions with 60+ ships and performance was still OK. Fleets with hundreds of ships would work too, if most of these ships are added as static block objects without AI.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree that Normandy was an iconic battle it seems like an odd choice to centre a flight sim title around a battle in which one side was completely unable to project air power, and only less than a dozen aircraft made a token effort to take part

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

you can add ar-234 for 5th option, and for do-217 it would probably be k or m version.

 

map would not even have to be big, if its from london to paris that 350km from N to S, and if you go from west normany tip to gent or reimse on east, thats around 400km, so 350x400km looks ok size for maps we have in game. But biggest problem like some say is naval stuff. Airplanes would be good fit for bobp+normandy combo

 

pic example:

Spoiler

5mab2t.jpg

 

Edited by 77.CountZero
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Edit: This was in reply the Sami Jay-Z comment about the Battle of Normandy being a limited air battle

 

Maybe. While D-Day didn't have anything, apparently the Allies launched ~450,000 shorties and had 4,000+ losses, so there was a lot of action going on, in all forms of flight. 

 

There were also extensive photo recon runs and diversion attacks, so even if the beaches were low air action, that does not necessarily imply that there weren't significant air battles going on related to it. 

Edited by Voyager

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am listening carefully to everyone's opinion. Let's build this map together 🍵  🚬  📖  ✈️

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@LUZITANO thanks for posting this thread. I agree that Normandy could be a good idea and I have been slowly typing up this suggestion myself but you bet me to it ;)
While exploring the idea myself some problems did pop up so I'll post my suggestions and any other thoughts here. My apologies if I repeat suggestions others have already made but most of what I'll post below is a copy'n'paste of stuff I had already typed up.

The Invasion Fleet Problem
How to simulate the fleet and the masses of aircraft? Presumably there's no way the game could handle that many but... we'd just have to bite the bullet and cut the number of aircraft one sees in the mission zone down to something manageable. It might seem a bit empty but there should still be enough around for decent action.
With the surface ships, I wonder if it would be possible to have most of them as static objects with no a.i. and fairly simple damage models with the some 'proper' a.i. ships sailing around and shooting stuff to give the scene some life. The same could possibly apply to masses of allied trucks/tanks etc on the beaches.

The Map Problem
It would pay to wait and see how the BoBP map deals with big cities but London and Paris might cause performance problems.
Also, 9th AF bombers and many 2TAF bombers (I don't envision any other Allied air commands like the 8th AF, ADGB etc to be in the game) were based quite far out from the suggested map limits, likewise the LW bombers were based in places like eastern France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Unless the devs perform a miracle and develop a map that's way larger than anything they've done so far, either the medium bombers would need to be removed (unlikely) or the rules bent and have them based at unhistorical airbases within the map limits.
Might need two versions of the map, one pre invasion and one after with allied landing strips in Normandy.

V-1s?
Personally I wouldn't include them. The launch sites could make for ground attack targets and missions intercepting them could give us the excuse to use the Tempest (and Spit XIV) in this module but with those two aircraft that's the only mission type one would have so it could get very boring very quickly.

Aircraft
As the LW will still have a bigger line up even after BoBP, I suggest that the Allies get the lion's share of new aircraft. To try keep it balanced in terms of career mode options perhaps anyone who buys BoN (Battle of Normandy) gets the existing Fw190A-8 and Ju88, while two new LW aircraft are added. I don't know much about the LW but maybe the 109G-6late and the 190A-6?

As for the allies' standard aircraft ...

- Spitfire LF.IXc - basically the same as the existing LF.IXe but with the C wing (2x20mm cannon and 4x.303 mg) and the older small rudder, but I wouldn't worry about changing the air intake. Perhaps these features could be added to the current Spitfire's mod options instead?

- Typhoon Ib - the ground pounder for the RAF, a very common sight over the battlegrounds of Europe. Would also work well with BoBP

- P-47D razorback - numerous and from what I can tell on these forums razorbacks are popular.

- C-47 - the ubiquitous work horse used the world over. AI with a view to making it flyable in the future like the Ju52, also a basis for the Li-2 and L2D.

- B-26 Marauder - an opportunity to introduce another medium bomber for the western allies. AI unless if the Mitchell isn't flyable by then, then have the B-26 flyable so bomber boys have something to play with.

- Mosquito FB.VI - a common multi-role variant of a famous aircraft.

Collector aircraft:

- P-51B/C/Mustang III - as per the P-47.

- BostonIII/IIIa and/or A-20G - reworks of the existing A-20 to types seen over Europe and elsewhere.
- Ju188 - one funky looking bird!

I haven't included the Tempest V and Spitfire XIV for the reason stated above re the V-1, nor have I mentioned the Mitchell and bubble-top P-47/P-51 as we're already getting them in BoBP.

Reasons To Do BoN

- D-Day and the Normandy campaign are famous (in the West at least), so good sales potential.
- Leads nicely into the BoBP campaign, giving good continuity.
- Lots of different types of missions available, including naval.
- Development of naval units (e.g. landing craft) might be transferable to the PTO if/when the series goes there.
- Lots of scope for introducing new aircraft whether they be reworks of existing aircraft (e.g. LF.IXc), brand new types (C-47) or collector. Many applicable to other theatres, especially BoBP.
- Another theatre for TC to expand into?
- Possible basis for another FC map?
- Although the disposition of airfields in southern England changed a lot during the war years the map (and existing aircraft already in-game) would give mission builders scope for cross channel ops prior to 1944.

 

Edited by HBPencil
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, HBPencil said:

V-1s?
Personally I wouldn't include them. The launch sites could make for ground attack targets and missions intercepting them could give us the excuse to use the Tempest (and Spit XIV) in this module but with those two aircraft that's the only mission type one would have so it could get very boring very quickly.

V-1 would be fabulous. Already have in IL-2-1946, could be used in offline campaigns and other things!
 

10 hours ago, HBPencil said:

I haven't included the Tempest V and Spitfire XIV for the reason stated above re the V-1, nor have I mentioned the Mitchell and bubble-top P-47/P-51 as we're already getting them in BoBP.

I do not believe that any server was doing the Battle of Normandy with Tempest V. But the idea of the V-1 rocket could be great for the Spitfire XIV and P-51D

I would very much like suggestion of German bombers, with the full name of the models ... If the Typhoon is released separately, it would be nice to replace it on the list by an American bomber
 

10 hours ago, HBPencil said:

The Invasion Fleet Problem
The Map Problem

 

The solution: 

10 hours ago, HBPencil said:

- D-Day and the Normandy campaign are famous (in the West at least), so good sales potential.
 


It's the closest step we have. Normandy complete Bodenplatte
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd rather have a Berlin map, like 400km wide on 300km's with the city in the middle.
This gives all sides the latest goodies and both Red-sides can be flown and having even a fight between them :biggrin:

Yak3/ yak9T (or something like that)/La-7/Last poney/Last Bolt/ p-38 boosted/spitty-14/wurger A9/wurger d13/ta152/ju88/ju87/ar234...no, no 109's.who cares about the 109's...:crazy:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2019 at 4:14 AM, HBPencil said:

V-1s?
Personally I wouldn't include them. The launch sites could make for ground attack targets and missions intercepting them could give us the excuse to use the Tempest (and Spit XIV) in this module but with those two aircraft that's the only mission type one would have so it could get very boring very quickly.
 

I disagree, incidentally, I think it can be fun to use the V-1
10 years ago in the old IL-2-1946 specifically on Spitvs109 server we had this mission in late 44 to destroy the bases of V-1 Rocket. At the same time, the server occasionally fired a few rockets for people to intercept. Our mission took place on the French coast and many dogfights happen. At the same time some players could intercept the V1 in the route that it did in low altitude
This type of mission did not happen in the summer of Normandy, it happened months later. And it was absolute fun, conditioned by the creativity and good work of those who modeled this type of mission 

I answered with a little haste the first time. I am editing the post list with the feedbacks you are giving, but I think it would be better to create a poll...
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I believe that TFS will cover D-Day due to the enormous amount of tasks that would be required. However, the Falaise Pocket could be covered by Tank Crew. Compromise for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The interesting thing about the Falaise Pocket is the MASSIVE amount of utter carnage inflicted by the 9th Air Force upon the German units on the ground.

Not exactly a "Tank Crew" scenario, but more Jug work etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Normandy makes the most sense from a playability/continuity standpoint.

 

It would be a good match for Bodenplatte and could cover the buildup for Normandy all the way to the end of the invasion(maybe).

 

The planeset would be very popular imo (on the allied side at least) with the P-47D-22, P-51C, Typhoon, etc.

 

Only reason not to do Normandy is if they are going to the Pacific or Italy, other than that there is nothing as interesting as Normandy. 

 

I would have preferred Normandy over Bodenplatte.

 

EDIT:

I also wouldn’t mind if they just focused on fixed and improvements to the game. My interest in Il-2 has dropped quite a lot recently, mostly due to certain inaccuracies and the way engines are modeled in the game.

 

Despite this I would still buy Normandy or any western/pacific expansion if they did it. Eastern front is a no go for me and I hope they wouldn’t go back so soon.

 

Berlin also wouldn’t do anything for me unless it had a mix of Allied aircraft. (P-47M,  Spit XIV, and then some Russian craft to please the eastern fan base)

Edited by Legioneod
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The appealing thing to me about BoN is not D-Day, which is, well, boring from the Luftwaffe side, but the tactical campaign afterwards.

Air battles between early June and late August were fierce and bloody.

 

I'd place the map south of London and extend it more to the south and east.

 

The planeset would be heavily Allies-sided, but the LW could get an A-7 and a G-6/late out of it.

Absolutely essential for the allies would be:

 

- P-51B/C (with Malcolm hood and without, -3 engine, lots of stuff to drop)

- P-47D-22

- Typhoon IB

- A-20J

- Mosquito

 

AI:

- B-26

- Ju 188

- C-47

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2019 at 4:26 AM, LUZITANO said:

I disagree, incidentally, I think it can be fun to use the V-1
10 years ago in the old IL-2-1946 specifically on Spitvs109 server we had this mission in late 44 to destroy the bases of V-1 Rocket. At the same time, the server occasionally fired a few rockets for people to intercept. Our mission took place on the French coast and many dogfights happen. At the same time some players could intercept the V1 in the route that it did in low altitude
This type of mission did not happen in the summer of Normandy, it happened months later. And it was absolute fun, conditioned by the creativity and good work of those who modeled this type of mission 

I answered with a little haste the first time. I am editing the post list with the feedbacks you are giving, but I think it would be better to create a poll...
 

Fair enough, I can see how it could be fun in multiplayer. But I was thinking of the SP career mode, fighters defending the UK from V1s were dedicated to it for some months which would be boring in a career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/9/2019 at 7:36 PM, LUZITANO said:

Following the Battle of Bodenplatte and expanding on the West front in this late period of war I come through this post to suggest the:
 

IL-2 Battle of Normandy
 

Set of aircraft

P-51B (Mustang Mk III)

P-47D-22

Spitfire Mk IXc (M61, M63 and M66)

A-20G

Mosquito FB Mk VI  

Fw 190 A-6 

Me 109 G-6/Late (Erla Canopy, late tail and MW-50 engine mod)

Me 109 G-6/AS    (BD 605 ASM and new coverage for MG's)

Me-410 B-2

Do-217 

+

Typhoon Mk Ib/Later (as an individual early extra collector for Normandy) 

 

Artificial intelligence

B-26 Marauder 
V-1   Rocket     (Can be used in individual missions, campaigns, online battles where they can interact with the scenario)

Others airplanes related to Normandy

Douglas C-47 (It will probably be developed as a separate collector that can be used in many battles including Normandy)

 

Collector Aircraft options and thoughts 
P-51B because it was a variant that fought in Europe and the Pacific

Spitfire Mk IXc was the most produced variant of the Spitfire, and may be the 1942 version. Modifications like engine M66 could modify the air intake of the Carburetor for model V of 1943. I would like to see this complete Spitfire, with the late engine modifications making it possible to cut the wings and equip with bombs
Do-217 and smart bombs?

Me-410B-2 ?

 

Other planes thoughts
Mosquito FB Mk VI capable of attaching RP-3  rockets
Do-217... I did not choose a variant, but it would be interesting to be one with the options: Henschel Hs 293 and Fritz X. I remember there being such options in the Packs of the old IL-2-1946

Me 109 G-6/Later is a 109G-6 modified in late 1943 with MW-50, G-10 tail and Erla canopy. Also an option AS, which would change parts of the fuselage and the air intake of the carburetor. 

During the Battle of Normandy the 109G-6/Late was the version in use. The G-14 version entered service in this battle, but only became numerically expressive in the autumn of 1944

The 109G-6/AS was a very fast variant, but the engine was short-lived. The engine had a life of 12 hours, few 109G6AS were developed


Map area (400x350 km)
overload2.jpg.0cc1aa1ddc30e0586f59a52591282d05.jpg

Map specifications
From Utah until Le Havre we have 100 km distance. From Utha until Paris the distance is 270 km 

  Reveal hidden contents

paris.thumb.jpg.c385299f112069ac49787c772b4b9e94.jpg

 

D-Day map

  Reveal hidden contents

normandy.thumb.jpg.81fd2d138a1855cfa38f32aa6ff92aa1.jpg

 

Reasons to do
Taking advantage of the extensive research done at the Battle of Bodenplatte I believe that it would be easier to also research the French maps of Normandy
Many of the aircraft are already created in their bubble canopy versions, P-47, P38... Also the Spitfire IX.. All these planes of Normandy could be used in Bodenplatte, so I believe it is so important to create this battle. It would complete the late set of aircraft and maps from the middle of 1944 until the last days of the war with Bodenplatte

Logistical issues with the  airplanes choice
Fw-190A-6: This particular plane was used in the Battle of Kursk
Me-109 G-6 Later: This variant could be used in an eventual offensive of Minsk (operation Bragation)

Eventually the allies have more planes than the Germans, which limits Germany's options in developing battles. The tropical variants of 109 could create many new battles in the desert, but the European variants of 109 are divided between the East and West Fronts
Most likely, part of the allied aircraft will be developed and sold separately... 

Other battles
Normandy and the Minsk offensive take place in the same period... I've already suggested 4x Battles for the desert and one at Finland ... For others battles I have not made the suggestion yet , but I've already thought about how to close the European set between 40 and 45

In total I planned 8x battles for Western Europe and at least 2x for Eastern Europe (Finland and Berlin)


It will be necessary to make a decision on how to spread the 109 and 190 variants between Normandy and Byelorussia

Here is the suggestion to discuss and make the necessary modifications ;) 
 

 

I´m a big fan of this. The merit would be at least twofold. 1C would expand the ETO universe and planes from Normandy could also be used in BoBP, also Career could be started in Normandy and would be running through to VE-Day Europe. Also a TC Module could be released dealing with armoured Warfare in Normandy. Operations Epsom, Goodwood or Totalize come to mind. I would even favour this over a PTO Scenario which wouldn´t offer this amount of flexibillity.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

I´m a big fan of this. The merit would be at least twofold. 1C would expand the ETO universe and planes from Normandy could also be used in BoBP, also Career could be started in Normandy and would be running through to VE-Day Europe. Also a TC Module could be released dealing with armoured Warfare in Normandy. Operations Epsom, Goodwood or Totalize come to mind. I would even favour this over a PTO Scenario which wouldn´t offer this amount of flexibillity.

Yep, Normandy is the best option if the Pacific doesnt come to fruition. I also agree that Normandy would make more sense as the next expansion instead of the Pacific. It would continue with the Bodenplatte campaign and add to the the current lineup for bodenplatte.

 

The pacific could always come afterwards if it comes at all.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Following the Battle of Bodenplatte and expanding on the West front in this late period of war I come through this post to suggest the:

 

IL-2 Battle of Normandy
 

Set of aircraft

P-51B (Mustang Mk III)

P-47D-22

Spitfire Mk IXc (M61, M63 and M66)"

 

Regarding OP remarks concerning the Spitfire Mk IXc.  Please note:  "The engine with the re-scheduled blower gear ratios, the Merlin 66, came into production and general use in early 1943.  The higher altitude engines, Merlin 61 and 63, were retained in production for use in the high-altitude Photographic Reconnaissance Spitfires, and with modification, in the pressurised Mk VII fighters."  (source: Spitfire, by Jeffrey Quill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Quill ).

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spitfire-Pilots-Story-Jeffrey-Quill/dp/0099370204/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0/261-6111355-0273352?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V8JG8HZTQRE7BWFJWHVH

 

Therefore, I suggest that the Merlin 66 engine is perfect for Normandy just as we have it with our LF version of the Mk IX.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/2/2019 at 6:42 AM, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Therefore, I suggest that the Merlin 66 engine is perfect for Normandy just as we have it with our LF version of the Mk IX.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Spitfire Mk IXc can be 3x in one (42-43 models)
Same for the P-51B
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Normandy would please me a lot too.


This would be a very good way to fly on BOP aircraft in a very interresting situation.
 
But there could also be a version of the "BOB" card, if it is cleared of the Atlantic wall, and German constructions of end of war.

And including, a planet set adapted, that would complement well for the serie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

Spitfire Mk IXc can be 3x in one (42-43 models)
Same for the P-51B
 

Normandy is from 6th June 1944.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

Regarding the Spitfire Mk IX e wing:

 

The 20 mm Hispano cannon were moved outboard and heavy machine guns, the .50 calibre Browning M2/AN, with 250 rpg were added to the inner gun-bays. The first trial installation (modification 1029) was made in BS118 in November 1943; by mid-March 1944 the first service Spitfires to be modified were from 485(NZ), 222 and 349 Squadrons. Spitfires with this armament were at first referred to as Spifire LF.IX .5 and the E suffix was not officially introduced until early 1945. This armament was standard for all Spitfire Mk IXs and XVIs used by the 2nd Tactical Air Force as fighters and fighter-bombers from shortly after D-Day.[7] It proved more effective for both air-to-air engagements and air-to-ground attacks.[9]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin-powered_variants)

 

I suggest that the 'E' wing is historical for Normandy as it was in operational use by a number of squadrons before D-day and was progressed to standard issue for all Mk IXLF Spitfires shortly after D-day.

 

P.S.  As a point of interest, Spitfires Mk XIV, at least 3 squadrons, were also used for D-day.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Works for me and my PERSONAL tastes.

 

I keep being tempted to buy the DCS Normandy modules.

 

But the developers do not seem to concentrate on one thing long enough.

 

To make a complete and decent job of it, please correct me if i am wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Dogbert1953 said:

Works for me and my PERSONAL tastes.

 

I keep being tempted to buy the DCS Normandy modules.

 

But the developers do not seem to concentrate on one thing long enough.

 

To make a complete and decent job of it, please correct me if i am wrong.

 

 

Many of us had the same thought ie that they made a big deal of bringing out the first release then abandoned it to work on other things instead of finishing it.         Stupid really as they admitted that they made more profit from selling the WW2 aircraft  than from *all* the other aircraft combined.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I dont think you need to worry dogbert this will probably be in this game at some point, just name recognision is to good not to have it in this game at one point, only amount of naval units is to big but nothing they couldn not fined solution for when they go for BoN and have to spend time to optimies the stuff more. Its just to perfect fit, not to have it in game would be big miss, it has popular name, good airplanes, and fits with already existing bobp and other stuff, and you could have any missions for it spaning from 41-44 with all airplanes from other dlcs so players could be tempted to buy other dlcs just to get 109E7, 109F/G or Spitfire V, A-20 and so on (and in no time guy who at start just got BoBp and this BoN ends up geting BoM, BoS and BoK to play some early missions online on this map or some scripted campaigns in SP).

Edited by 77.CountZero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Normandy is from 6th June 1944.

Exactly, and Bodenplatte is from January 1945, even then we already have the Spitfire IX "E" in Bodenplatte.
Most allied airplanes are 1 year delay of the Battle of Bodenplatte
Spitfire IXc is the most common for this battle, and as version IX E, it can be more of a Spitfire using engine modification. There are more allied airplanes than axle planes, so the easier allied variants are, will be better

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I replace the A-20G with the B-17G

It's a four-engine, not the current focus of the game, but I'll let it on the list as a form of provocation ... If they do the B-17 in this battle will be perfect!

High-altitude combat is a dream for both P-51 and B-17 pilots. Also a chalange for luftwaffe fighters

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

Exactly, and Bodenplatte is from January 1945, even then we already have the Spitfire IX "E" in Bodenplatte.

 

No, it's from September 1944. 

34 minutes ago, LUZITANO said:

I replace the A-20G with the B-17G

It's a four-engine, not the current focus of the game, but I'll let it on the list as a form of provocation ... If they do the B-17 in this battle will be perfect!

High-altitude combat is a dream for both P-51 and B-17 pilots. Also a chalange for luftwaffe fighters

 

 

For the 10,000th time, team isn't doing the B-17. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Normandy is from 6th June 1944.

3 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

and Bodenplatte is from January 1945

 

 

37 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

No, it's from September 1944. 

If you can follow the conversation, we are talking about climax dates during the respective battles

38 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

For the 10,000th time, team isn't doing the B-17. 

I know. So I made it clear that I knew this and that it was a form of provocation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

Exactly, and Bodenplatte is from January 1945, even then we already have the Spitfire IX "E" in Bodenplatte.
Most allied airplanes are 1 year delay of the Battle of Bodenplatte
Spitfire IXc is the most common for this battle, and as version IX E, it can be more of a Spitfire using engine modification. There are more allied airplanes than axle planes, so the easier allied variants are, will be better

 

June 6th is just the start. The best timeframe for a campaign would be from March/April 44 - August 44.

 

Could include the buildup to DDay all the way to the Falaise pocket.

 

3 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

I replace the A-20G with the B-17G

It's a four-engine, not the current focus of the game, but I'll let it on the list as a form of provocation ... If they do the B-17 in this battle will be perfect!

High-altitude combat is a dream for both P-51 and B-17 pilots. Also a chalange for luftwaffe fighters

 

Replace the A20/B17 with a B-26 and I’m sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, LUZITANO said:

Exactly, and Bodenplatte is from January 1945, even then we already have the Spitfire IX "E" in Bodenplatte.
Most allied airplanes are 1 year delay of the Battle of Bodenplatte
Spitfire IXc is the most common for this battle, and as version IX E, it can be more of a Spitfire using engine modification. There are more allied airplanes than axle planes, so the easier allied variants are, will be better

The Spitfire IX e specification Spitfire (wing) was in operational use from before D-day on 6th June 1944 and standard for all Spitfire Mk IXs and XVIs used by the 2nd Tactical Air Force as fighters and fighter-bombers from shortly after D-Day.

 

It was only the E suffix, not the E wing armament itself, that was not officially introduced until early 1945; the E wing armament was used operationally before D-day and standard issue shortly after.  Standard issue means the E wing is correct armament for the Battle of Normandy.

 

So, the E wing armament and the Merlin 66 engine is valid for before the battle of Normandy, during the battle of Normandy and after the battle of Normandy.  This keeps it very simple for the developers, because we already have a Spitfire that is valid before the Battle of Normandy until the end of the war.  The gyroscopic gunsight can be locked server-side as map makers see fit.

 

"The engine with the re-scheduled blower gear ratios, the Merlin 66, came into production and general use in early 1943.  The higher altitude engines, Merlin 61 and 63, were retained in production for use in the high-altitude Photographic Reconnaissance Spitfires, and with modification, in the pressurised Mk VII fighters."  (source: Spitfire, by Jeffrey Quill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Quill ).

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

 

 

 

 

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Pour la 10 000e fois, l'équipe ne fait pas le B-17. 

Sorry but the team did not say that they did not want to do B17.

It seems to me that she said that for the moment the engine of the game did not allow to do four-engine.

It's different !
I prefer to keep hope and trust them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

June 6th is just the start.

June 6 begins the invasion. But ... air operations were constant before that date, the air war begins before, of course.

3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Replace the A20/B17 with a B-26 and I’m sold.

For me I would solve everything in a poll with you guys...
 

2 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

So, the E wing armament and the Merlin 66 engine is valid for before the battle of Normandy, during the battle of Normandy and after the battle of Normandy.  This keeps it very simple for the developers, because we already have a Spitfire that is valid before the Battle of Normandy until the end of the war.  The gyroscopic gunsight can be locked server-side as map makers see fit. 

 C and E, but the type C wing was the most common for this time. This set of Normandy opens possibility for battles throughout 1943 

This is the standard Spitfire model type for Normandy
 

If you search for "spitfire ix Normandy" you will find many photos and prints Spitfires IX using the rounded tail

Like this group 

review_spit_aces_3.thumb.jpg.fef4f68fd67d092635f26a92466fa1b6.jpg

 

The correct Spitfire for Bodenplatte would be the XIV version, but ... as we already have the IXe, for Normandia I find more appropriate the Spitfire IXc, which was the most common type in use. There is no possibility of putting the XIV version in Normandy, statistically it is irrelevant

 

Edited by LUZITANO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

B-26 is better (more realistic for this game) option then B-17, also online it would be better to see B-26 bombing targets from 500m then B-17s bombing them from 500m droping bombs one by one in each pass 😄

 

 

Edited by 77.CountZero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they do this or Italy next....then after that go to the pacific. If CLOD ever finishes with 5.0 ..we will have all areas cover so they can focus on the pacific!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall I really love the Normandy concept. It's another great battle that features tactical airpower to a great extent.

 

I would suggest that the aircraft set is a bit off with two types. I'd love to see the Mosquito FB.VI added to the aircraft set but it really should be swapped places with the Typhoon Mark IB. The OP may not know but the Typhoon was equipped by an enormous number of squadrons and used heavily during the invasion and in the aftermath. When it came to supporting troops on the ground, the Typhoon was the most used with some squadrons using the RP rockets and others using 500lb bombs. Typically a pair of Typhoons would be on station ready to strike at all times, strike, and then be replaced by two more.

 

The Mossie is fantastic but comparatively less relevant.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...