Alternative for Pacific Theatre after Bodenplatte

[Rei-sen]

10 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

I don't think it's ignorant at all... some people like the Eastern Front and some people don't. Some people like the Pacific theatre and some people don't.

We are all different, nothing wrong with that at all.

What would be ignorant is refusing to see the worth in other peoples views and ideas... you don't have to agree with people who have different views to your own, it certainly doesn't make them ignorant.

People have right to express their views of this game, don't worry, I get it. Thing is, it just doesn't stop some of those views from being ignorant. When someone says smth like "I don't want X theater, give me Y theater instead", or they just don't want to see a certain front - it is ignorant. It is indeed refusing to see worth in other people's views and ideas. Because other people want that X theater and they don't mind if they're getting Y theater as well. Wanting the game to have only limited set of theaters that someone prefers is ignorant.

We need various fronts. From early 30-s to Korean War and maybe even beyond that point. As I've already said the best thing would be alternating them with each update, of course if there are no limiting factors, like with documentation for Japanese planes. Hopefully we'll see Pacific being one of the next updates.

Bottom line is, the more various theaters we have in the game, the better and more popular the game will be.

Oh, and by the way, whoever said that making scenarios that cover conflicts that took place in 30-s like Spanish Civil War, or making Winter War won't be commercially successful, this point is totally devastated by the very fact that a game that covers aerial warfare from 1914-1918, the game about WWI friggin' bi-planes was and still is very successful. Moreover, it is now being a part of IL-2 Great Battles series.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Arthur-A

[Redwo1f]

Yes, if there is going to be a Pacific, then yes I think Solomons would be a fantastic choice! ?

(and since I still see it coming up - Battle of France is being done elsewhere (by OBD and also possibly TFS) - so there is no point in directly competing - don't think that helps any of the teams).

Edited April 7, 2019 by Redwo1f

[Poochnboo]

19 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Could be really interesting, if AI did stuff like Thatch's weave..

Ah...."But there's the rub.." as Shakespeare wrote. They won't. Yes! I would enjoy it that way, too. But you know there will be no cooperation from your AI compadres'. And oniline it won't be any better. Unless you're in a squad. It'll be you in an airplane that can't turn well, or climb well against a horde of 20 mm armed gnats. I'll be in an SBD, I guess. At least someone will be watching my ass!

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

People have right to express their views of this game, don't worry, I get it. Thing is, it just doesn't stop some of those views from being ignorant. When someone says smth like "I don't want X theater, give me Y theater instead", or they just don't want to see a certain front - it is ignorant. It is indeed refusing to see worth in other people's views and ideas. Because other people want that X theater and they don't mind if they're getting Y theater as well. Wanting the game to have only limited set of theaters that someone prefers is ignorant.

We need various fronts. From early 30-s to Korean War and maybe even beyond that point. As I've already said the best thing would be alternating them with each update, of course if there are no limiting factors, like with documentation for Japanese planes. Hopefully we'll see Pacific being one of the next updates.

Bottom line is, the more various theaters we have in the game, the better and more popular the game will be.

Oh, and by the way, whoever said that making scenarios that cover conflicts that took place in 30-s like Spanish Civil War, or making Winter War won't be commercially successful, this point is totally devastated by the very fact that a game that covers aerial warfare from 1914-1918, the game about WWI friggin' bi-planes was and still is very successful. Moreover, it is now being a part of IL-2 Great Battles series.

 

You're missing several points with this post.

 

For starters yes the Spanish Civil War would be a financial failure - the end, which is why you'll never see it.

It has nothing to do with with time period and the success of the WWI sim. The two don't relate at all.

 

More people are aware of WWI than the Spanish civil war, and WWI is still a tougher sell than you think it is commercially.

So there's plenty of ignorance to go around it seems.

 

 

 

 

 

[Poochnboo]

58 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

It has nothing to do with with time period and the success of the WWI sim. The two don't relate at all.

Yes. I didn't quite understand the, Spanish Civil War will work because Rise of Flight was successful, reasoning either. 

[Rei-sen]

17 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You're missing several points with this post.

 

For starters yes the Spanish Civil War would be a financial failure - the end, which is why you'll never see it.

It has nothing to do with with time period and the success of the WWI sim. The two don't relate at all.

 

More people are aware of WWI than the Spanish civil war, and WWI is still a tougher sell than you think it is commercially.

So there's plenty of ignorance to go around it seems.

 

 

 

 

 

So you missed the main point of my post about variety of theaters and alternating them and instead you cherry-picked Spanish Civil War. Again, let me put it real simple for you. Best way would be making different theaters in a sequence, like this: 1 Eastern Front update (let's start with Battle of Kuban). then 1 Western Front (Operation Bodenplatte which is WIP now), 1 Pacific, 1 Mediterranean or Korea, then Eastern Front, then some 30-s like Spanish Civil War, etc. The sequence can be different, it's just an example. Why would it be financial failure if it comes from a highly reputable company with a huge fan base? Do you have a crystal ball or are you a business analyst at 1CGS/777? If you care about financial success that much then aircraft simulators isn't the best choice here. You could make way more money with something like Fortnite for example.

[Eisenfaustus]

40 minutes ago, Arthur-A said:

So you missed the main point of my post about variety of theaters and alternating them and instead you cherry-picked Spanish Civil War. Again, let me put it real simple for you. Best way would be making different theaters in a sequence, like this: 1 Eastern Front update (let's start with Battle of Kuban). then 1 Western Front (Operation Bodenplatte which is WIP now), 1 Pacific, 1 Mediterranean or Korea, then Eastern Front, then some 30-s like Spanish Civil War, etc. The sequence can be different, it's just an example. Why would it be financial failure if it comes from a highly reputable company with a huge fan base? Do you have a crystal ball or are you a business analyst at 1CGS/777? If you care about financial success that much then aircraft simulators isn't the best choice here. You could make way more money with something like Fortnite for example.

 

I guess his point was that if they do one module in this sequence that turns out to be a financal failure, the sequence will end with that. This is pretty much in line with Jason Williams' statements. So of course they have to use themes that will sell well - and a battle of midway most likely would. But if it can't be done due to technical reasons they will obviously pick something diffrent - but in any case it will be something they believe sells well enough to keep the company running.

 

I don't believe that all customers will buy any module just to keep the company running - and the company propably doesn't either

[CountZero]

Just by name recognision i expect to see at some point Battle of Normandy/Midway/Berlin names are recognisable with wide odiance and plansets are ok, i wuld be suprised if some obscured battles are selected before any of thouse 3. 

[Eisenfaustus]

18 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Just by name recognision i expect to see at some point Battle of Normandy/Midway/Berlin names are recognisable with wide odiance and plansets are ok, i wuld be suprised if some obscured battles are selected before any of thouse 3. 

 Those names would certainly have a greater recognition value than either Kuban or Bodenplatte

But same goes for Battle of France at least. And if you'd be looking for the name as seller you would have to do - Battle of Britain...

 

So obviously name alone doesn't count for that much ^^

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

So you missed the main point of my post about variety of theaters

 

No I actually didn't.

Your logic doesn't follow, and as someone else pointed out if they release a bomb, then that's all she wrote.

 

 

 

 

[Lusekofte]

I see no alternative to Pacific, the reason Jason had ambitions of making Pacific theatre was because 

1. He has a personal interest in it
2. Because of number 1. he can relate to the fact that it will bring in new people

Now he probably see that  PTO will cost a great deal more than it will bring in, and he regret the ambitions he had to go there. Bodenplatte probably got many of the people he hoped to bring in anyway. For me this is perfectly understandable, any person with knowledge of economy and busyness understand this standpoint. 

For me the question remain, what next?

For me there is no next, if I realized this before I would not have bought FC, BOBP and tank crew. I believed I supported a further development by doing so. But I wonder out of curiosity what the plans are next. 

[Trooper117]

Korea...

[BraveSirRobin]

3 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I see no alternative to Pacific, the reason

 

Berlin

Normandy

Italy

North Africa

Korea

[Vig]

5 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

I see no alternative to Pacific, the reason Jason had ambitions of making Pacific theatre was because 

1. He has a personal interest in it
2. Because of number 1. he can relate to the fact that it will bring in new people

Now he probably see that  PTO will cost a great deal more than it will bring in, and he regret the ambitions he had to go there. Bodenplatte probably got many of the people he hoped to bring in anyway. For me this is perfectly understandable, any person with knowledge of economy and busyness understand this standpoint. 

For me the question remain, what next?

For me there is no next, if I realized this before I would not have bought FC, BOBP and tank crew. I believed I supported a further development by doing so. But I wonder out of curiosity what the plans are next.  

 

 

My position is very similar.  I really feel no "bond" with either  German or Soviet aircraft.  I take them up for spins to examine the flight characteristics, but I don't actually play with them because playing is in the head, it is in the imagination, it is a Walter Mitty or Ralphie living out of a fantasy, and I have no Nazi or Soviet fantasies that I want to live out.  I bought BOS BOM and BOK almost entirely because I wanted to support further development, reasoning that the original IL2 eventually went to the Pacific, maybe this one will, too, if it succeeds.  

 

In retrospect, I would have bought FC in any event, because I enjoyed the original game so much, especially the online flying community.  But I would not have purchased BOBP (American planes per se do nothing for me, my thing is naval aviation), and I did not purchase Tank Crew because I simply do not like tank games, and I saw it as a resource-hogging drag on future aircraft development.

 

Once I regarded this series as the focus of my military interest hobbies, but now I have moved on to a long-delayed naval miniatures project that gets most of my gaming budget and attention.  I keep watching, and if the Mediterranean or Pacific theaters are developed I will jump back in because those are within my area of interest.  But I'm through supporting development in general by buying whatever is released.

[Trooper117]

So what planes would you want to fly if there is a move to the Med?

 

[Lusekofte]

33 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

So what planes would you want to fly if there is a move to the Med?

 

If  combat flight sim ever could simulate serviceability roughness planes available and pilot training. 

I would have re-enacted “hope” and “ Faith” the two gladiators in Malta fighting the might of luftwaffe. And the following Hurricanes. Beufighters with torpedoes SM79 with torpedoes

[Vig]

 

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

So what planes would you want to fly if there is a move to the Med? 

  

The dedicated naval planes, of course, like the Fulmar and Swordfish - I don't know if the Skua made it to the Med but that one is a favorite of mine as well.  Fliegerkorps X would be interesting to me because Stukas and JU-88s would be employed in an anti-shipping role.  The SM79 was a standout as a torpedo-carrier, but Italian aircraft in general appeal to me.  Part of it is the underdog status of the Regia Aeronautica and Italian forces in general - I am curiously drawn to underdogs and lost causes, but I am also interested in the Italian aircraft themselves.  They just have not been covered in the detail that BoX can offer (with the exception of the MC202, of course), and I enjoy the tactical situation posed by the combination of light armament, mediocre speed, and high agility - especially given their opposition in the theater.  It would be too much underdog for me against most other opposition, I think!

 

If we were talking about a more open scenario, with all possible forces available, I would very much enjoy exploring the French aircraft available in the theater for much the same reason.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Vig

[Dogbert1953]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

So what planes would you want to fly if there is a move to the Med?

 

 

Anything that floats when i crash. Which happens every time i take off.  ?   ?

[Pict]

Of what was on the list, I voted for "Berlin (Yak3, La7, IL10, Tu2 + P39Q vs BF109G10, Ta152H, Me410, Do217 + He162)", as it seems to be the easiest to accomplish, given that many of the aircraft are already at some stage of development, and others, from the BP set will be already compatible to add to the mix. Plus, if made large enough, a Berlin map could accommodate heavy bombers as additional modules.

 

Talvisota (Winter War 1939) and France are an equal second in my view, as both have great Craplane™ potential  , their maps would be useful in other scenarios and some of their aircraft would be inter changeable, especially as France 1940 can be coupled with the BP map to represent the Battle of the Low Countries. An Italy / France border map could also be interesting  

 

Spain (SCW) would be mostly one use as Spain was neutral during WW2 and would require huge effort for what appears to be mutually deemed minimal return. Tough break for the Craplane™ enthusiasts as the Craplane™ potential is almost endless, but Spain will always be the last on the list and long after the Pacific has been covered end to end.

 

IL2 Battle of series is, in my view, just fantastic, getting better all the time and has wonderful future potential, I would never vote for the dead-horse™ option that quite a few seem to have done, as I'm sure we will see many Pacific battle of's in this series in times to come.

 

I am also a big carrier ops fan an look forward to this aspect done to this level and with that, I don't just mean big carriers  but also the Independence class of fast carrier and the little escort or "jeep carriers". And not just the Pacific, but I would also enjoy the challenge of operating Seafire II's from escort carriers in the Med during Operation Husky and the massive attrition of deck landing accidents that entailed.

 

Other than carrier ops, Hellcats, Wildcats, Zero's and so on, if we were to miss out on the Pacific theater, we would also never see Oscar's, Tojo's or Frank's for instance and that would be awful.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Pict

[darthdooboss]

I would prefer the desert, north Africa, this will be easy to do

[CountZero]

On 4/7/2019 at 11:56 PM, Eisenfaustus said:

 Those names would certainly have a greater recognition value than either Kuban or Bodenplatte

But same goes for Battle of France at least. And if you'd be looking for the name as seller you would have to do - Battle of Britain...

 

So obviously name alone doesn't count for that much ^^

Exept after Kuban leadership changed and Kuban is not popular, and Bodenplatte is preaty famous name.

 

Battle of France, Battle of Britain we already have in CloD, making thouse now in this game would be like trying to make RoF 2 now it would be hard to get ppl to buy both FC shows that with not many ppl, its just to early and games are not that big differant in advances like for example jump from il-2 1946 to clod or this was.

 

If clod continues they can easy cover Alamain, Tunisia, Malta and easrly Italy wars in MED and in england all thouse channel battles and raids from 1940-44 even Normandy as map is already in game. 

[Dogbert1953]

No Battle Of France in CLOD, buddy. But thankfully they are doing North Africa.

[BOO]

41 minutes ago, Dogbert1953 said:

No Battle Of France in CLOD, buddy. But thankfully they are doing North Africa.

There will be a little more scope for Early 1940 scenarios with TF5 since it brings the D520 and much of the Hurricane, early 109 and Axis bomber stock is there already. I think TWCs campaign is largely France based although im not sure how accurately it sticks to the period plane sets in terms of using Spits or later 109s. 

[Dogbert1953]

The CLOD map doesn't go far enough inland does it BOO, for BoF ?

[BOO]

4 minutes ago, Dogbert1953 said:

The CLOD map doesn't go far enough inland does it BOO, for BoF ?

It doesnt go as for north into England for the Battle of Britain or the blitz either but that doesnt stop anyone ?

[Dogbert1953]

Stopped me buddy, i don't play it anymore.

 

Doesn't go far enough west either. ?

[Feathered_IV]

On 4/8/2019 at 11:22 PM, Trooper117 said:

Korea...

 

I think that it will be Korea if there is a new chapter too.  Now that they have made the jump to 1945 and the high performance aircraft they won’t feel like they can go backwards.   

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

I think that it will be Korea if there is a new chapter too.  Now that they have made the jump to 1945 and the high performance aircraft they won’t feel like they can go backwards.   

 

If they do Korea there will be helicopters. Then they can go backwards or forwards to their hearts delight.....

Edited April 10, 2019 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[CountZero]

19 hours ago, Dogbert1953 said:

No Battle Of France in CLOD, buddy. But thankfully they are doing North Africa.

I played many times in online missions in clod that had historical Battle of France missions over france area of map, also few campaigns, dinamic or scripted,  also game has all important airplanes for battle of france, and missions that had bof were less popular as airplanes are crapy, i see no need to have bof in this game and i belive it would not be popular like it was not in clod. 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[THERION]

24 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

I played many times in online missions in clod that had historical Battle of France missions over france area of map, also few campaigns, dinamic or scripted,  also game has all important airplanes for battle of france, and missions that had bof were less popular as airplanes are crapy, i see no need to have bof in this game and i belive it would not be popular like it was not in clod. 

 

 

According to Chuck Yeager there are no crappy airplanes - "It's not the airplane - it is the pilot"

[CountZero]

yes yes and its pilot that wins the df and not airplane and all that bs im sure, cal that chuky to play flying video game and he will fined crapy airplanes all around them, game play is nothing like real life flying

[Poochnboo]

So if Yeager was in  Brewster Buffalo, and the other guy was in a Spitfire, Chuck would kick his ass? That Spit jockey would have to be really, really, REALLY bad! I think that there's a point where even Bob Hoover couldn't save a bad airplane. 

[THERION]

@77.CountZero & @Poochnboo: Although I am absolutely not a US fan - God no! - I do acknowledge the competence of Chuck Yeager. He was a very

experienced pilot and ace. He also did a lot of test flying, also with foreign types.

 

I don't want to pretend, that I could win every dogfight with an inferior airplane. I'm not very good at dogfights, but have some success occasionally.

And once in a while I observe some very good fighter pilots on BERLOGA who downed several superior planes while sitting in a crappy crate. So,

finally it all depends on the pilot, if you ask me.

 

"Know your enemy's plane and yours"

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

So if Yeager was in  Brewster Buffalo, and the other guy was in a Spitfire, Chuck would kick his ass? That Spit jockey would have to be really, really, REALLY bad! I think that there's a point where even Bob Hoover couldn't save a bad airplane. 

 

Yeah Yeager's comments shave to be taken in context offered.

He was never swapping aircraft with buddies and 'waxing their tail" with radically different aircraft.

Yeager in a Saber, buddy in a Mig15 he wins, swap, he might win again...that's the context.

 

Yeager in a Wildcat, anyone else in Zeke - head on co-energy....Yeager loses every time.

 

Not that Yeager is even the best example of an American ace.

For that I'd look to Gabreski, Preddy, Whisner or many others.

Even better a guy who faced Zero's on P-40's or Wildcats etc...early war when the cards were stacked against them and  they faced

literal Samurai's in superior aircraft.

 

 

[CountZero]

13 hours ago, -IRRE-Therion said:

@77.CountZero & @Poochnboo: Although I am absolutely not a US fan - God no! - I do acknowledge the competence of Chuck Yeager. He was a very

experienced pilot and ace. He also did a lot of test flying, also with foreign types.

 

I don't want to pretend, that I could win every dogfight with an inferior airplane. I'm not very good at dogfights, but have some success occasionally.

And once in a while I observe some very good fighter pilots on BERLOGA who downed several superior planes while sitting in a crappy crate. So,

finally it all depends on the pilot, if you ask me.

 

"Know your enemy's plane and yours"

So what happends is you have most missions where you have Spitfire IIa vs 109E4N, and then 2-3 missions show up with BoF scenario and then you sudenly have to fly Hurri vs 109E1/3, and compared to SpitIIa and E4N thouse are crappy airplanes where you have to manualy control all stuff and dont have 20mm and so on... so BoF maps get empty realy fast, In real life you fly what they gave you you didnt try other airplanes you dont know how good bad your one is compared to other ones, in game you can try all airplanes and you can see how crapy hurri with no rotol is compared to spitiia, or e4n with all automatic and good 20mms compared to e1 or e3 with all manual and 7.7s or bad 20mm ammo on e3. When you can try all airplanes in game you can see what airplanes are crapy and what ones are not and you can skip crapy ones ( there will always be few ppl flying them for what not reasons but most will avoid them like you see in any game, how many ppl fly 202 on early maps and not F4   ).

Now in real life most pilots didnt fly all airplanes, if they did they would say there is planty crapy airplanes ?

[=GW=Dragon_emissary]

just pacific!

[=GW=H517]

would like to see the Pacific at some point.Its particularity and charm cannot be denied.

[Trooper117]

Ooooh, charm... I like that  

[Poochnboo]

 

1 hour ago, III./JG5_H517 said:

Its particularity and charm cannot be denied

Yes. The heat and humidity. The mosquitos. The malaria. The cat sized rats. The lousy food. No women for a thousand miles. Charming. Still, in a flight sim I'd love it. Now, if you're gonna send me back in time to 1944 in real life...It's 8th Air Force in England. 

[=AMR=Match]

 I like the Pacific War. It was an integral part of the Second World War. It should not be erased.