Alternative for Pacific Theatre after Bodenplatte

[Redwo1f]

OBD is doing France as well (Wings Over series).

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

PTO or Italy - no polls needed

[Redwo1f]

Not a big fan of late war - I mean you may like some of the planes, but for the most part it was over, so campaign wise it is really not very compelling (so with that sentiment I think the Berlin scenario is not great at all from that perspective). Mid war is where it is at, imho,  where it was far more balanced both between aircraft and between possible outcomes - just my opinion. That being said though, I voted for Talvisota of the choices (I like the plane set and it was an interesting conflict - plus I know France is already being done elsewhere). I like the Italy suggestion above and also would like to see the Pacific at some point.

[=GW=xshinel]

I need Pacific!

[Soilworker]

I voted Berlin, but a not so small part of that is because it increases the likelihood of being able to fly my Me-163! ?

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

No alternatives for me, only Pacific.

[BroGrimm1tkcamp]

Amen!

[Poochnboo]

Spain and Finland? You really think they'd do that? They want to make money....and niether of those two will bring any cash in. France? There is no reason that you can't pick up CLOD and do that right now. And I don't get Battle of Berlin as an air combat option. What would you do with that, that  you couldn't do with the Bodenplatte map? I'm glad you aren't making the decisions for them.

Some want the Med, it seems. Others want carriers. Some say Italy. So, how about Malta? The defense of that island is quite a story. A lot of guys want the Hurricane. Lots of Hurris there. Yes, a lot of the airplanes used are in CLOD. But I didn't see it written , anywhere, that the two games can't include the same airplanes. Some folks seem to think that.

You could have bases in Sicily and Italy for the Axis air forces to fly from. They could even get some experience in doing an aircraft carrier by including The Illustrious. Might work. Still , though, I'd rather they just went ahead and did a Pacific based module. All of this, of course, is just my two cents. 

[Chief_Mouser]

If they can't get the carriers working then there is still plenty of land-based Pacific action to consider. The only problem being that in the main those bases are VERY far apart. So if that isn't going to happen then my personal favourite is still the Battle of Epirus (Greece-Albania), but a lot of the speed freaks here wouldn't go for it so Malta it would have to be.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think the main problem with going to the early Pacific without carriers means you burn much of the planeset you'd otherwise use in a fleet setting. Oddly, I feel less concerned about doing it the other way around (ie carrier to island module).

 

re: Spain and Finland, I mostly agree. Berlin a little less so - you could do a pseudo-SWOTL (without going full Go-229 etc) vs late war Russian (Yak 9, La7, IL 10), maybe some of the last minute American upgrades, and it would probably do pretty well. France would do well with early English and German designs plus a French fighter (or two). Both compared to Malta, that is. You can sneak a Blenheim and Do-17in there as well which would be tasty for the mud movers.

 

Italy, however, is probably the best early to mid-war scenario for generating income and continuing to expand into the North American/Western European markets. The German lineup is largely done and you easilly upsell Allied AC vs a whole slew of Italian marks - some of which are competitive.

Edited March 16, 2019 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Poochnboo]

6 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

a whole slew of Italian marks - some of which are competitive.

Yes, that's a reason Malta would work. All of the Axis planeset would be Italian airplanes. A whole new air force in the game. All of the German equipment that took part in that siege are in the sim already. Put Sicily and a bit of Southern Italy in and you get a whole lot of bang for the buck with this. Then the British would get the Hurricane, tropicalized versions of the Spit Mk5, Beaufighters, Beauforts, Gladiators. I could see this happening rather than the other doubtful scenarios being brought up. Mind you, I'm playing Devil's advocate here. I'm not saying that this is what I, necessarraly, want to see. Hell, give me the Battle of Leyte Gulf! But we're not gonna see that. I'm just thinking of somewhere that I can, logically, see them going next with this. Something that I think people would like that would bring in revenue.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Go a little later and there is more variety in Sicily/Italy - any British rigs you want plus razorback versions of P-51, P-47 and later marks of the P-40. And all of the Italian jobs plus a lot more scenery. Maybe Malta within that package if the long axis of your map is vertical.

[Vig]

The Great Patriotic War in the air was pretty much composed of tactical ground attack and fighter missions to gain or retain air superiority.  The air war over Germany in 1944-45 was pretty much high altitude strategic bomber attacks, escort, and interceptions, with a dash of tactical fighter attacks on transportation that increased as the bombing campaign reached its climax.  Now we have some Western aircraft in a central European setting but the actual gameplay is still the same sort of thing that has been modelled on the Eastern maps.  Now that they've decided to do Germany, they need to include strategic bombing - day and night - or instead just sell airplanes.  Air war over Germany *is* strategic bombing.

 

 

[Chief_Mouser]

@Vig It's been wished for endlessly and the reply is always the same; it can't be done and won't be done - ever. Not with this game engine. Perhaps sometime in the future there'll be a sim for the strategic campaigns, but not this one.

[Poochnboo]

3 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Go a little later and there is more variety in Sicily/Italy - any British rigs you want plus razorback versions of P-51, P-47 and later marks of the P-40. And all of the Italian jobs plus a lot more scenery. Maybe Malta within that package if the long axis of your map is vertical.

Here's the problem with that. And BELIEVE me, if anyone wants a P-51B it's me. But for Italy, the only job those Mustang did was strategic. The Merlin Mustangs did not fly with the 12th Air Force. Well, wait, that's not true. They had F6's, the TacR version with a camera behind the pilot. But the Mustangs mostly served with the 15th Air Force escorting Forts and Libs northward, off of our hypothetical Italian map. 

My scenario gives us Malta, Sicily, part of Southern Italy, a new Air Force to join the arena, and keeps it tactical. You could still use Sicily to fly P40's, P-38's, B-25's, and everything else on the inventory to hit targets in Italy and soften 'er up for the invasion. And then, you could have the invasion at Salerno. Like I said, lots of bang for the buck wth such a map. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Poochnboo

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not in oppostion to your proposal. I'm liking it more after looking how a vertically oriented map would work as opposed to a traditional/horizontally oriented map. You make the P-51B work by being tangential, like our original Fw-190 was to the Stalingrad map.

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, Vig said:

Now that they've decided to do Germany, they need to include strategic bombing - day and night - or instead just sell airplanes.  Air war over Germany *is* strategic bombing.

 

The map they are creating was all about tactical air warfare, with fighter-bombers and medium bombers (see also: 9th AF, 2nd TAF). A proper strategic bombing scenario would require a far larger map of Germany.

[ITAF_Rani]

Italy 44...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

4 hours ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Italy 44...

Nope, 42-43 gives a planeset which is more balanced and different from what we are getting in Bodenplatte. You can then use the maps for anything you like, including 44.

[Heliopause]

Voted  Spain but Winter War is a close second.

[Feathered_IV]

I'd like a Fall of Singapore or Sumatra map.  Having the AI Hurricanes and Buffaloes stupidly turning in circles would suddenly seem historically appropriate.

[Danziger]

If the Pacific turns out to be too much too soon, I vote for a late war Eastern Front operation with some late war Soviet birds and more 109s and 190s. More Soviet and Axis twin engine bombers and fighters would be welcome as well. 

[LLv34_Temuri]

B-239 didn't make it to the Winter War, replace it with Gloster Gladiator.

Edited March 20, 2019 by LLv34_Temuri
I always mix up Gladiator and Gauntlet :P

[69th_Ustio]

what about operation tungsten in Norway? (the sinking of the Tirpitz). we all want to fly the Corsair and the Hellcats if the PTO comes out right? well both aircraft were present during this battle(even the wildcats), the rest are seafire and some barracudas, which doesn't hurt if they make this because these plane saw action in the pacific aswell(and for the love a god a Swordfish as a collector?. if they built the Tirpitz they can atleast build the tech for large ship combat and their damage model and also carrier operation so that when by the time they are ready to make PTO, they already have some tech and experience from it. 

 

 

besides 

Wildcats(Martlet)

Hellcats

Corsair

Barracuda

Swordfish(collector)

Seafire(collector)

 

thats half of the planeset for a full pack

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by 69th_Ustio

[Vig]

I would be fine with Tungsten, or with Torch, or RN carrier ops in the Med.  The Med with carriers would in some ways be preferable to the Pacific.  No Japanese documents required.

[69th_Ustio]

@Vig im down with the Med. but that planeset will be limited though, since the corsair didn't saw action until 44. 

 

i just forgot that the avenger took part in the later operation on the Tirpitz(operation goodwood) so yeah it would be a win-win if they make Med or Norway campaign IMO

[SovietAce]

I vote for Berlin scenario. Seriously, all that is left on eastern front is one late and one early war scenario and planeset for eastern front is done. Other things are just matter of addon maps and dlc planes. And since most of the needed planes would be another versions of planes we already have, it wouldnt take long to make those. There would be even some interesting types for western fans (P-63, P-36, Brewsters etc.)

Edited April 2, 2019 by SovietAce

[Vig]

@69th_Ustio - 

 

USS Wasp participated in two operations with the Royal Navy in the Med.  These were ferry runs of RAF fighters for Malta, but Wasp flew Wildcat CAPs in both missions, and had an exciting time when one of the Spitfires had to abort and try to land back on Wasp with no hook - it made it, stopping 15 feet from the front end of the flight deck.

 

The USS Ranger was with the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow and flew off an antishipping strike mission to Bodø employing Avengers, Dauntless, and Wildcats in October 1943 (Operation Leader).   Tungstun took place the following Spring.  So we could get some good use out of a Norway map and aircraft release, and would then have a big jump on Med carrier ops if Japanese planes can't be done.  A Med map would be a big deal, probably several parts like Russia, and could sell a lot of airplanes that are a lot more interesting to me, anyway, than late-war uber planes being used in roles they were not designed for.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Vig

[69th_Ustio]

@Vig but im still 50-50 about 1943 med and Norway. because if they release it with wildcats and dauntless it means that they have lost 2 plane for the possible Pacific pack(if its Midway that is) i only see they take this route if the pacific is no longer an option but they still want to make carrier operation.

 

that why i prefer Norway 1944, the plane set doesn't interfere with the potential Midway planeset

[CountZero]

5 hours ago, 69th_Ustio said:

@Vig but im still 50-50 about 1943 med and Norway. because if they release it with wildcats and dauntless it means that they have lost 2 plane for the possible Pacific pack(if its Midway that is) i only see they take this route if the pacific is no longer an option but they still want to make carrier operation.

 

that why i prefer Norway 1944, the plane set doesn't interfere with the potential Midway planeset

For Norway, questions are what was axis oposition in air, can you fined 5 axis airplanes to have that are already not in game that operated from airbases on map area you would need to that operation, if thats not posible its extreamly limited then and when you have other areas where you can fit 5v5 airplanes then its hard to belive that Norway would be ever made for this game.

 

The way i see it any DLC has to have minimum of this two options to ever hava a chance to be cnsidered:

5v5 ability ( of airplanes that are not already in game),

map area with airbases for thouse airplanes to operate from an do missions inside that map area.

[69th_Ustio]

@77.CountZero you're right, we already have some of planes that saw action in Norway. the only way they can add some new Axis planes if they expand the timeline and go beyond 1945. For example, we can have the:

-Me 410, I believe ZG 26 use it, but they use it in September 44, and I'm not sure if they took part in operation Tungsten or Goodwood 

-BF109T, well this might be an extreme example, and I'm not sure if they were still in service during this timeline, but I read somewhere that a BF109T manage to score a B-17(i forgot which   source), 

-BF109 G-10, there were some G-10 that were in service with the JG5, I think it was the 14 Staffel, but I believe they start operating in January 1945

-JU88 A-17 the dedicated torpedo bomber for the LW

 

 

so that's 2 fighters 1 attacker and 1 bomber which makes for the standard planeset. and for the collector plane a HE115 perhaps. it would be an interesting collector since its a float plane,

 

or if they want to go even more extreme, they can just make the Graf Zeppelin and replace one of the aircraft that I mention above with JU87C so we can have a carrier battle for MP purpose. but then again that's just me, and I'm sure 1C won't go that extreme

[Enceladus828]

I would want to see a late war Eastern Front like Smolensk (41 and 43), Hungary, Ukraine, and Lenningrad (Winter war. mentioned on top) if the Pacific is a no-go yet. There's is still so much of the Eastern front of WW2 that needs to be seen in this game.

[Gambit21]

Not going to happen.

[Dogbert1953]

I have no interest what so ever in the Eastern Front air war. I only bought BOS, BOM & BOK to support the developers.

 

BOBP, FC & TC are the only modules i am really interested in.

 

Pacific Theatre would be good for me, but if i had a choice i would prefer to see D-Day and up to the BOTB as a release.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Dogbert1953

[CountZero]

7 hours ago, Dogbert1953 said:

I have no interest what so ever in the Eastern Front air war. I only bought BOS, BOM & BOK to support the developers.

 

BOBP, FC & TC are the only modules i am really interested in.

 

Pacific Theatre would be good for me, but if i had a choice i would prefer to see D-Day and up to the BOTB as a release.

 

And thats why its good to go in PTO next, to get ppl who have no interest in West or East front, then when they like what they get they will buy other stuff available in game to reword devs.

 

So game then covers all interests, as there is probably still some ppl interested only in PTO who didnt buy anything and if they go for PTO would buy. Its all what if but going PTO expands player base, then after one PTO you can go back to east or west front and so on, or even stick to PTO if proven big hit.

Edited April 4, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[Rei-sen]

Best thing would be alternating theaters each release. Like Eastern Front, Western Front, Pacific, Mediterranean, some mid-30s like Spanish Civil War, and all over again. Seems like devs are doing this already with Bodenplatte coming and Pacific being next.

 

I don't get this "I'm not interested in Eastern Front/Other Front" crap. It's quite ignorant, IMO. The ability to fly in various theaters/planes is one of the things that will make this game amazing. And one of the reasons why 1946 is still very popular.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

 

I don't get this "I'm not interested in Eastern Front/Other Front" crap. It's quite ignorant, IMO. The ability to fly in various theaters/planes is one of the things that will make this game amazing. And one of the reasons why 1946 is still very popular.

 

Not being interested in this front or that front might be ignorance (like me with the Med) or it might simply be preference.

Unless you're not interested in the PTO - then you're just a galactic dolt. 

 

Seriosly though we we do need the various front - but enough with Russia for a while - a long while.

Too much other territory to cover, like the Solomons, Leyte Gulf and New Guinea.

 

 

 

[Poochnboo]

2 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

I don't get this "I'm not interested in Eastern Front/Other Front" crap

I've got to be honest, I'm not really all that interested in the Russian Front, either. It's not what I grew up reading about. Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Lightnings, Corsairs....those are the airplanes that I was fascinated with as a kid. That fascination stayed with me as an adult, and it's probably one of the biggest reasons I learned to fly in real life. 

I have Stalingrad and Moscow. I won't be purchasing another Eastern Front module. I've tried to like the Mig-3 and Laggs...etc. But they just aren't doing it for me. The only planes I fly are the P-40, '47 and the two Spitfires. 

The good news is (Well, for me, anyway) is that I recall Jason saying that he'd had enough of the Eastern Front, too. So, I don't think we'll be returning there. Not for awhile. I don't think we're going to see any of these obscure battlegrounds that people seem to want, though. Jason wants to do the Pacific. He even wanted to do it back in the days of Rise of Flight. I remember him showing us some teasers of stuff they were working on. One was a floatplane Zero. We all started speculating like crazy, of course. So he wants to, now, when....that's another story.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think you are misquoting Jason. I agree the series is most likely moving to the Far East and probably some more western theater stuff as well. I’ve  never heard him say anything resembling he’d “ had enough of” the Eastern Front. I am quite sure he would not alienate his crew or an entire community by saying such a thing.

[DickDong]

None of your choices help the problem with getting carriers in game.  Korea helps bridge that.

 

Battle of Korea should help bridge the Pacific Gap..ME262 brings jet tech to the game. Carriers were integral in Korea's survival with British and US carriers being involved.  The documentation is much easier to come by too.

 

Carriers: Intrepid Class CV, and HMS Triumph

 

USN/USAF

F9F Panther

F4U Corsair

A-1 Skyraider

F-51D Mustang

F86 Sabre

Lockheed F80 Shooting Star

F-84E

Hawker Sea Fury

 

Korea/VVS

Mig 15

La-9

La-7

IL-10 Sturmovik

Yak-3

Yak-7