Flying Circus "HOW TO PURCHASE" Plee!! (Wish)......from a unhappy R.o.F flyer.

[SirFlappy]

Hi

 I will start by saying thankyou Jason and team for your excellent software.

I own BoS,BoM ,RoF and as a side- note Clod (I know this was not part of the club originally!),and salute your work.

I know the market for flight (combat) sims is not what it was decades ago and you need above all money not just praise,I get that.....but as it stands I am NOT going to buy flying circus.

 Before this goes on ,I will say now I am no snowflake so will not take offence at all the rage and abuse this will fire back.The devs can market the game anyway they see fit ...and I respect that..its up to them alone.

 The problem is I am on a low wage,but get on by basically being "tight"....I am now 47 and when younger used to buy games willie nillie ,and not play half of them( A bloody waste).

  The cost of games now and realizing its better to make the most out of a few "good" games and get the full potential out of them makes good financial sense to me.

I really liked the latter RoF pay model......I got the game for free with a couple of planes,found I liked it and over the last few years (always in sales lol) have apparently spent $67 (whatever that translates to in Pounds..I am english),according to the store website!

 Now I probably would not have bought the game if that was what I had to shell out at first.

The bummer comes to someone as openly mean as myself that "Flying Circus" comes on the scene, and it is something  that I would like to buy BUT.......

 This has been stated by many others...and I know it bores & irritates lots of people here ....I feel like I am not going to fork out £50/60 whatever it is on basically less aircraft (and NO WW1 maps) than I have already got in RoF.

 The extra work in updating these aircraft and building new maps is SIGNIFICANT it cost time and money I KNOW..before you all reply.The devs as I said earlier need dosh " GOT IT".

 I dont have VR ,and I still like RoF..it  looks and plays well so I will not be buying  Flying circus anytime soon....which is a shame for me and for the devs as they need all the help they can get.

 I feel I am not alone amongst some RoF owners in this.

MY SOLUTION.  For all RoF owners who have spent a set amount ...say £30.....let them get Flying Circus (unlocked) in with BoS or whatever GB game they have, but with no planes to fly (or one would be nice)....and then let them buy individual planes from the store to fly against all the AI that is available...like RoF is now.

 For folks who have not spent the required amount on RoF they MUST purchase Flying Circus as is now for sale (the current  full plane deal).

    I hope you read this Jason as a constructive "moan",because I for one would then buy a Camel or whatever I fancy and start giving you some income,then get the bug as in RoF and spend some more.

  The Flying Circus price model (with consideration to RoF flyers who have spent a good deal of money) is putting people off,its alienating some potential buyers of FC.

 I really wish you take this onboard as I support your efforts ,but sadly not with my hard earned money at the moment.

   For all the flamers who say   "I give whatever the price just to support the Devs" ,I say thats good of you....but when your on £17k or less a year its not an option.

                           THANKS in hope.

Edited February 19, 2019 by SirFlappy

[LukeFF]

Tl;dr

[SirFlappy]

15 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Tl;dr

 I have e-mailed a "Last will and Testament" form to you Luke,its 29 pages long...... so just sign at the bottom of the last page  THANKS.

  ( I always fancied a plot in California,cheers m8 Lol)

Edited February 14, 2019 by SirFlappy

[Dutch2]

On 2/14/2019 at 9:18 PM, SirFlappy said:

have apparently spent $67 

 Sorry but that is a big joke, think in my case >€200,- incl the DVD at the preorder in 2009. So yeah I think your €67,- is well spent to make FC possible. 

Jason did made a special deal for Rof owners, only for the loyal  buyers, so what expecting more inhere?

I only hope he also does not forget the stand alone Sikorsky buyers, when he does release the FC eastern front pack. 

[Dogbert1953]

@SirFlappy  I live on State Pension buddy £150 week.

 

But as soon as i have the money i will purchase both FC & TC. i was really lucky that i got BoS, BoM & BoK in the sale.

 

I wasted £56 on WOFF & WOTR, so i could have been playing TC now.

 

I think the prices are fair, particularly with the $ to £ exchange rate, which saves a few pennies.

 

No more buying outside the Great Battles modules for me. I think it is worthwhile supporting the IL-2 team.

 

I know nothing about combat flight sims, but GB seems to be the best available.

 

I also own CLOD & 1946, but i bought those on Steam in a sale for peanuts.

 

Apologies for rambling on.

 

Mike.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Dogbert1953

[SirFlappy]

Hi

 Just to re-state,I did say FC should be sold at the current price (if I was a game developer I would charge the highest price I could " sustainably " get!),I just think they could push the game further with existing RoF owners if they followed the "old" sale model for those RoF flyers who have already spent a bit on the game and are still happy with it,but are sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy FC.

  Thats why I submitted this post,not to inflame the devs or those dedicated simmers who have bought what they have,but to try to explain how they could market FC to some more casual flyers who may be reluctant (like myself) to splash out the full amount now,but rather buy the odd plane and go from that.

 I think they may find it would INCREASE profit,and be a positive sales model.

    PS. re: your quote Dogbert1953 " Remember always that a wise man walks with his head bowed, humble like the dust "

          I would add " A wiser man walks with his head bowed,humble like the dust.....but looks up occasionally  to make sure he does not walk into a brick  wall!"  

Edited February 18, 2019 by SirFlappy

[LukeFF]

20 hours ago, SirFlappy said:

I just think they could push the game further with existing RoF owners if they followed the "old" sale model for those RoF flyers who have already spent a bit on the game and are still happy with it,but are sitting on the fence wondering whether to buy FC.

 

They've already done that, as @Dutch2 has mentioned. 

[Dogbert1953]

@SirFlappy    A wise man already knows that the brick wall is there.

[SirFlappy]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

They've already done that, as @Dutch2 has mentioned. 

 True, but it was only about 10% off the full price if I recall ( could be wrong on that figure..but it was something like that!), and it was not enough to tempt me.

I do not no the sales figures for FC,but if they dont take off ( pardon the pun),I think at another sale time they could try my idea (individual plane purchases,for money spent RoF owners),at least for a limited time and see how things go..........,its worth a look at surely!

Edited February 19, 2019 by SirFlappy

[LukeFF]

You're going to be waiting an awful long time if you expect them to sell planes individually.

[Dutch2]

21 hours ago, SirFlappy said:

 True, but it was only about 10% off the full price if I recall ( could be wrong on that figure..but it was something like that!), and it was not enough to tempt me.

I do not no the sales figures for FC,but if they dont take off ( pardon the pun),I think at another sale time they could try my idea (individual plane purchases,for money spent RoF owners),at least for a limited time and see how things go..........,its worth a look at surely!

If not flying VR then I still think right now FC is not that improvement over ROF for you, because It is in preorder phase.

 

If not going to wait, get for $30,- http://www.overflandersfields.com/store.html  and believe me you do not need an CFS3 disc. If you do select “for UStroops in Europe” when paying you do not even have to pay VAT. 

 

edit, Or ask Dogbert to sell you the WoFF, guess $15,- would be interesting for your budget. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Dutch2

[SirFlappy]

I tried OFF many years ago ,I had bought CFS3 and found it terrible (CFS3 that is),so I had a go with the free mod version of OFF........it was OKish but I liked RoF better when that came out,never bothered with OFF after that.

  However I looked at the latest offerings as you kindly linked,and  it seems interesting in many respects......got me thinking, is it much improved from what I remember before?

I dont want to feel I wasted my money like Dogbert.

 Some games just do not feel "right" when you play them, its funny but I have bought so many games in the past that just dont grab me somehow I am reluctant to just buy something I will spend very little time on ..........maybe some people have some good findings on the latest version of WOFF, it does look as though it offers a lot of content at a fair price for the single player (I rarely play MP in flight sims).

Edited February 23, 2019 by SirFlappy

[Tyberan]

I've spent a tonne of money of RoF over the years and it was worth it cause it was a solid game. The business model they used allowed them to continue with the development for a lot of years until they realised that a new engine was needed and an opportunity to make a good ww2 sim. 

 

You can either support the development of FC now in early access at a discount or wait for a year or so once it's been released and get it on sale.

 

But I don't think it's fair to want some insane discount cause you bought their older game at sale price recently. Either you want it or not at the price they are selling.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Tyberan

[SirFlappy]

5 hours ago, Tyberan said:

I've spent a tonne of money of RoF over the years and it was worth it cause it was a solid game. The business model they used allowed them to continue with the development for a lot of years until they realised that a new engine was needed and an opportunity to make a good ww2 sim. 

 

You can either support the development of FC now in early access at a discount or wait for a year or so once it's been released and get it on sale.

 

But I don't think it's fair to want some insane discount cause you bought their older game at sale price recently. Either you want it or not at the price they are selling.

According to the store-

(14.06.2011 20:00 14.06.2011 20:02 old_paypal 7.62 USD Yourself) ,my first purchase for RoF was the 14th June 2011.......maybe thats recently? ,then all told I spent $67. Many folks ,maybe you have spent hundreds...but I just bought a few fighters (scouts) some mods and the channel map,and I am happy. I bought BoS ( dont know why it does not show on my icon,but I have it anyhow),and BoM....whilst reduced slightly. I know this is off the point but over the years I have spent loads on flight sims ,the original il2 & all its follow ons Forgotten battles,Pacific fighters etc,plus Clod and many others ALL at full price going back to the Spectrum 48k and Commadore64 days.  If you read what I said I am not asking for "some insane discount", just a rehash of the existing RoF buying model(for those who have spent cash on RoF already NOT new customers) ...ie the ability to buy specific planes etc.Which in the long run can lead to people spending as much or more than a "full price" offer. A case in point is yourself,as you say "I've spent a tonne of money of RoF over the years and it was worth it cause it was a solid game".   So therefore you are saying you got RoF at the same "insane discount" as myself and lots of others....Not fair is it!

Edited February 22, 2019 by SirFlappy

[LukeFF]

Dude, they offered discounts to owners of ROF, based on how much they purchased. If you decided to forgo that generous offer, that's on you. 

[Enceladus828]

14 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Dude, they offered discounts to owners of ROF, based on how much they purchased. If you decided to forgo that generous offer, that's on you. 

Yeah, but that was just $5-15 and most people got the $10 discount. Therefore, that's $60 to buy the Flying Circus. Total rip off. I think the price should be $25 dollars for people who have RoF because all FC is, is just ROF with VR, Updated graphics, and a few minor things.

[SirFlappy]

49 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Dude, they offered discounts to owners of ROF, based on how much they purchased. If you decided to forgo that generous offer, that's on you. 

 Thats right,I may have to wait a while till a WW1 map and more planes appear ,and I am sure if its on sale I may well take the plunge.

 I am not trying to upset anyone by stating my views,just offering an alternative  idea on the marketing strategy.....which may appeal to some.

    The problem with (combat) Flight sims today is its becoming increasingly niche, back in the day everyone had a flight sim ,now its  a few devotees with expensive rigs and flying gear, who can afford & are willing to pay for whatever limited offerings are available.

 If this continues the prices will rise and the player base will fall.......I can understand you wanting to support  the Devs by purchasing pre-release material at the prices they are,but I was not asking for an INSANE DISCOUNT as Tyberan suggested was I.

 

32 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

Yeah, but that was just $5-15 and most people got the $10 discount. Therefore, that's $60 to buy the Flying Circus. Total rip off. I think the price should be $25 dollars for people who have RoF because all FC is, is just ROF with VR, Updated graphics, and a few minor things.

  Glad for some backup m8,I know I am not the only one who thought the "generous offer",was not enough to sway them.

Its stony ground  though, as the people who reply are here  mostly because they still play & pay, many others are not here because in the case of FC its priced too high at present

and they may have lost them. Which is sad for the future of Flying Circus.

Edited February 22, 2019 by SirFlappy

[BraveSirRobin]

Eventually they are probably going to have a 50% deal on FC.  That’s when you can buy it.  Until then your best option is probably to buy lottery tickets.

[SirFlappy]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Eventually they are probably going to have a 50% deal on FC.  That’s when you can buy it.  Until then your best option is probably to buy lottery tickets.

Thats the No.1 suggestion yet    lol!

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

I think the price should be $25 dollars for people who have RoF because all FC is, is just ROF with VR, Updated graphics, and a few minor things.

 

Once again, another ill-informed post from you. If you think these updates (and more) that come with FC should be that cheap, you are living in lala land. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by LukeFF

[Dutch2]

12 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

Yeah, but that was just $5-15 and most people got the $10 discount. Therefore, that's $60 to buy the Flying Circus. Total rip off. I think the price should be $25 dollars for people who have RoF because all FC is, is just ROF with VR, Updated graphics, and a few minor things.

 

I must admit inhere the first two FC planes were only swapped from RoF,  being teflon waxed to look shiny, push in some extra nails and kick in a better cockpit for VR. So yeah a very lazzy job from that Russian design buro.  

I’m sure also 1c did noticed that, because read the 217 news  the Fokker D7 and Dolphin are looking much better now, take a look at the map, think finally it is well made. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Dutch2

[Enceladus828]

On 2/22/2019 at 4:01 PM, LukeFF said:

Once again, another ill-informed post from you. If you think these updates (and more) that come with FC should be that cheap, you are living in lala land. 

No. What I'm saying is that I think it's totally UNFAIR for people that bought DLCs for Rise of Flight and now they realize that if they had known that 1CGS was going to make FC, they wouldn't have bought the DLCs. I believe that for one who doesn't have RoF, then the price of $70 is fine, but for one who has RoF, then $70 (later $80) for just VR and Updated graphics, plus a few minor things is unfair and therefore should get a significant discount for supporting RoF; not a $10 bargain, a much greater bargain. Why would one who doesn't have VR pay $70 when they can just buy all those planes for $50. Rise of Flight is the most realistic WW1 combat flight simulator ever made and now Jason just wants to throw that all away and just make Rise of Flight a pawn. It's been clearly stated that if the devs updated RoF, then there would be major delays for IL-2 GB. I feel that FC should end after Vol.1 and the planes should be integrated into a WWI Tank Crew (Awesome), where for $80 one can drive both WW1 tanks and planes. If the PTO isn't green lighted after BoBp, or once Jason has done all he wants to do, then he should return to update Rise of Flight.  

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

If the PTO isn't green lighted after BoBp, or once Jason has done all he wants to do, then he should return to update Rise of Flight.  

 

Dude, development for Rise of Flight is done, over, finished, complete, kaput. It's based on old code that's not worth maintaining. You cannot expect them to support two different engines forever. 

[Missionbug]

Hey guys, remember there is a brand new map coming with F.C, that on its own is probably worth double the price they are currently charging, add to that the updated tech and the already excellent aircraft set from R.o.F, everything for the WWI fan to be exited about.

 

I have the entire R.o.F set up, money well spent but never much used sadly, I have no issue with the move forward as it brings everything up to date and is integrated with the rest of the series so will get any updates they get, certainly worth the money.

 

If we all knew what the future would bring then maybe we would all wait for the next shinny new iteration of something, we do not, you buy into what is available at the time and get from it what you do then, the R.o.F Universe is now quite old and certainly in need of face lift, F.C. is that and cheap at the price.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

 

[6FG_Big_Al]

Uff,

Of course that's a lot of money ($70 don't grow on trees). But as already written, there was a discount for RoF owners.Unfortunately I couldn't use it, but in the end I didn't stop myself from getting FC. 

 

Everybody has to decide for himself how much such a package is worth to him. But it's always been the same how the single theatres ( BoS, BoK, BoM etc.) came out. Accordingly nothing will change for FC and apart from Collectorplanes there won't be any single planes like in the RoF store.  After all, there is no axis adjustment (which doesn't bother me at all) for FC.  

In return you not only get updated aircraft but also the advantages of the new damage model and a new detailed map.  I also hope that one day FC will have even more features than its forerunner - if FC becomes a success. Last but not least, that was one reason why I took it to push the development forward, because even if there isn't as much to go on as Rof right now, it can still be.

After all, BoS has also developed splendidly. In the worst case you have to be patient until it gets cheaper, which might take some time.

 

I wish a nice day,

 

Rico

 

[Enceladus828]

On 2/26/2019 at 3:35 PM, LukeFF said:

development for Rise of Flight is done, over, finished, complete, kaput

That's what they said about IL-2 1946 and Cliffs of Dover when 1C Maddox pulled out. Fast forward to now and you have both games still being supported/updated by development teams. And they have done a fine job at making the 2 games better than they were when 1C pulled out. 

 

On 2/26/2019 at 3:35 PM, LukeFF said:

It's based on old code that's not worth maintaining.

Well, the source code for IL-2 1946 is much older than the one for Rise of Flight, and IL-2 1946 is still being supported.

 

On 2/26/2019 at 3:35 PM, LukeFF said:

You're absolutely correct. That is why 1CGS should frequently update IL-2 GB, and just intermittently update RoF, like graphics, maybe one plane like the BE.2.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Novice-Flyer

[SYN_Mike77]

There is so much I want to say here but I will limit it to this observation.  Flying Circus cost less than the first flight sim I bought.  Back in 1991 I bought the original Red Baron for $50.  In 2019 dollars that is $96.70, substantially less than FC cost in 2019 dollars.  The amount of code written for Red Baron wouldn't model the code written to calculate the drag coefficient of the extra wing on the DR 1 in FC. 

 

By any metric you care to use FC is a stunningly good deal.  If you are interested in the content at all,  just buy the game and consider yourself lucky.

[BraveSirRobin]

21 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

You're absolutely correct. That is why 1CGS should frequently update IL-2 GB, and just intermittently update RoF, like graphics, maybe one plane like the BE.2.

 

I hate to be the one to point out the blindingly obvious, but that means supporting 2 game engines.  Which is not going to happen.  They're done supporting RoF.   

[Enceladus828]

All I’m going to say is that if you bought the original Cliffs of Dover on Steam for $10, as a thank you for supporting the game during the darkest times, then you got the Blitz Edition for Free. Therefore you saved $19. Pretty good deal in getting a few new flyables like the Beaufighter, Bf 110C-6, Bf 109E-1, etc. if I do say so myself.

 

Note: I am not saying that FC1 should be free for people who supported Rise of Flight.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Novice-Flyer