Hype about ME262

[Dutchvdm]

5 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

Also, the G-6 was the most produced variant of the 109 iirc so I dont see what you mean by the K4 and d9 were more common.

 

I Think he means for the Bodenplatte timeframe. During that battle the G6 was quite rare. 

 

Grt M

[Legioneod]

5 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

I Think he means for the Bodenplatte timeframe. During that battle the G6 was quite rare. 

 

Grt M

Ah rgr. The thing is Bodenplatte is just the name. The setting starts in September 44.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Legioneod

[Voidhunger]

What is missmodeled on G14?

[CountZero]

 

8 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

They won’t need cover.  Unlike real life, there will be so many people in Dora’s and K’s that the Allied pilots won’t get near German airfields.

 

yes, its like ppl dont play MP, you will have 2-1 min advantage on Axis side, all uber airplanes available in unlimited mods and numbers, and ppl expect red side will vulch me262s LOL, in MP how its now what you know from WW2 dosent mather in how its played. Before P-47 come out i could see same naive thinking, oh P-47 will change the game , nothing can tuch it up high lol ...unlimited K4 1.98s... and reds rather play with slow spit9 then P-47 how its modeled with its weard engine limits.

 

Devs should make Meteor, there was few of them in europe in january 1945, so we can then have unlimited numbers of them fighting on MP also, i see that would be ok also, why limit them they were there, im sure axis would understand that.

"On 20 January 1945, four Gloster Meteor F.3 jets from 616 Squadron were moved to Melsbroek in Belgium and attached to the Second Tactical Air Force.
In March, the entire squadron was moved to Gilze-Rijen and, then in April, to Nijmegen. "

Edited February 10, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

The setting starts in September 44.

 

And they were still on the way out at that time. 

[Legioneod]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

And they were still on the way out at that time. 

Either way we still have the G-14 and A-8 to work with. Why should K-4s be the common aircraft when they were a rarity compared to everything else at that time?

Might as well just make 262s common just because they were in service in early/mid 44.

[JtD]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

The thing is Bodenplatte is just the name. The setting starts in September 44.

 

It doesn't end in September 1944. It stretches on to at least January 1945, putting November 1944 right in the middle of the time frame.

 

If of course your Bodenplatte ends in September 1944, I can see where you're coming from.

 

1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

What is missmodeled on G14?

 

The MW50 injection.

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, JtD said:

 

It doesn't end in September 1944. It stretches on to at least January 1945, putting November 1944 right in the middle of the time frame.

 

If of course your Bodenplatte ends in September 1944, I can see where you're coming from.

 

 

The MW50 injection.

Read my post again. I said starts in September 44.

[JtD]

Yes, and you're also saying that the K-4 and D-9 were rare while you threw the G-6 into the mix of aircraft that were common. All that is only true if you look at September only, and neglect 80% of the time frame covered. To me it looks as if either you're wrong, or you're selective.

[Legioneod]

7 minutes ago, JtD said:

Yes, and you're also saying that the K-4 and D-9 were rare while you threw the G-6 into the mix of aircraft that were common. All that is only true if you look at September only, and neglect 80% of the time frame covered. To me it looks as if either you're wrong, or you're selective.

 

My whole point was that the K4 isnt common throughout the whole time-frame and that if you expect to to be represented in the same numbers as a G-14 or A-8 you will be disappointed.

 

Of the German aircraft that we have in Bodenplatte the G-14 and the A-8 are the mainstay of the lineup and should be represented as such in missions. To have the K-4 or D-9 be more common is just incorrect.

[JtD]

As an average over the entire time frame, I agree.

 

In that sense, for the Allies you'd need to restrict all aircraft except for the Spitfire, given that it was by far the most common type, with P-38 and Tempest being nearly absent.

[Kurfurst]

Even the Spitfire wasn’t all that common if you look at the NW Europe operational theatre and they operated 90% of the time as fighter bombers, not as fighters. So why not limit them as well if you want to go down that road.

[=621=Samikatz]

Maybe it's time for server operators to stop bowing down to the whiners and actually click that team balance enforcement option...

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

1 hour ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Even the Spitfire wasn’t all that common if you look at the NW Europe operational theatre and they operated 90% of the time as fighter bombers, not as fighters. So why not limit them as well if you want to go down that road.

Yeah, because the payload used to maximize tactical effectiveness is entirely equivalent to the amount of (or lack of) aircraft that operated.

Edited February 10, 2019 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[MiloMorai]

5 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

Read my post above. Point is k4 and d9 were rare compared to the A8 or G14.

And if you really want to talk about mismodeled aircraft look at the P-47, it can out-turn everything and does what it shouldnt.

 

Also, the G-6 was the most produced variant of the 109 iirc so I dont see what you mean by the K4 and d9 were more common.

 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1022&d=1171563417

 

Not only does it list the numbers but sub models and the factories the a/c came from.

 

Note that only one (1) Bf109G-6/AS was a new build.

 

		Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Jan	Feb	Mar
G 5	Erla	50	63	56	6	2				60							237
G 5/R2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
G 6	Mttr	430	309	135	343	550	659	662	260	242	50	53	109	1	9		3812
G 6	Erla	291	270	203	200	319	300	305			106	295		64			2353
G 6	WNF	Scheduled-not built															0
G 6/R2	WNF											130		2			132
G 6/U2	Erla								38	3	1	1					43
G 6/U4	WNF	119	51	303	404	118	144	240	33	40	14						1466
G 6/U4	Györ								16	15							31
G 6AS	Mttr									1							1
Ga 6	Györ	42	6	50	14	17	17	30									176
G 8	WNF		16	57	39												112
G 8/R5	WNF					59	110	111	208	92	77	21	67		63	107	915
G 8/R5	GYör								29	2							31
G 8/U3	WNF										1						1
G 10	Erla									1	52	279	67	103	38	4	544
G 10	Mttr										4	108	62	3			177
G 10/R6	Erla											49	191	269	178	284	971
G 10/U4	WNF													129	132	95	356
G 14	Mttr								440	144	30	59	11	1	157	47	889
G 14	Erla								232	472	339	25		78			1146
G 14/U4	WNF								59	148	219	98	56	11	2		593
G 14/U4	GYör									32							32
G 14/U4	KöB										9	20					29
G 14AS	Mttr									303	379	101	203	211	62	11	1270
G 14AS	Erla									95	9	3					107
K 2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 2	WNF	Scheduled-not built															0
K 3	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 3/R2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 4	Mttr									15	293	221	325	338	233	168	1593
	Totals	932	715	804	1006	1065	1230	1043	1374	1718	1793	1558	1147	1221	876	716	17017

 

 

[Legioneod]

6 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1022&d=1171563417

 

Not only does it list the numbers but sub models and the factories the a/c came from.

 

Note that only one (1) Bf109G-6/AS was a new build.

 

		Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Jan	Feb	Mar
G 5	Erla	50	63	56	6	2				60							237
G 5/R2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
G 6	Mttr	430	309	135	343	550	659	662	260	242	50	53	109	1	9		3812
G 6	Erla	291	270	203	200	319	300	305			106	295		64			2353
G 6	WNF	Scheduled-not built															0
G 6/R2	WNF											130		2			132
G 6/U2	Erla								38	3	1	1					43
G 6/U4	WNF	119	51	303	404	118	144	240	33	40	14						1466
G 6/U4	Györ								16	15							31
G 6AS	Mttr									1							1
Ga 6	Györ	42	6	50	14	17	17	30									176
G 8	WNF		16	57	39												112
G 8/R5	WNF					59	110	111	208	92	77	21	67		63	107	915
G 8/R5	GYör								29	2							31
G 8/U3	WNF										1						1
G 10	Erla									1	52	279	67	103	38	4	544
G 10	Mttr										4	108	62	3			177
G 10/R6	Erla											49	191	269	178	284	971
G 10/U4	WNF													129	132	95	356
G 14	Mttr								440	144	30	59	11	1	157	47	889
G 14	Erla								232	472	339	25		78			1146
G 14/U4	WNF								59	148	219	98	56	11	2		593
G 14/U4	GYör									32							32
G 14/U4	KöB										9	20					29
G 14AS	Mttr									303	379	101	203	211	62	11	1270
G 14AS	Erla									95	9	3					107
K 2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 2	WNF	Scheduled-not built															0
K 3	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 3/R2	Erla	Scheduled-not built															0
K 4	Mttr									15	293	221	325	338	233	168	1593
	Totals	932	715	804	1006	1065	1230	1043	1374	1718	1793	1558	1147	1221	876	716	17017

 

 

 

Interesting but I'm not sure what being a new build has to do with anything?

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

What is all this whining about servers having unlimited this and that German OP plane?

Just to remind you guys, right now only ONE of the popular server features the K4 in 2 maps out of all its rotation. WoL doesn’t feature it AT ALL! Ther is only one map with a G14 where allies have FNs and mk IX to Counter it...

Really don’t get all this hyperventilation about these perceived unjust server settings...

[BraveSirRobin]

10 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

Great, americans/brits get 5 planes to choose from while germans get two. GG, wont play

 

Good.  That means the sides will be relatively even.  

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by BraveSirRobin

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I sense too much fear from western allies 

[BraveSirRobin]

6 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

I sense too much fear from western allies 

 

I sense even more fear from the guys who refuse to fly anything other than German.

[ShamrockOneFive]

8 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

My whole point was that the K4 isnt common throughout the whole time-frame and that if you expect to to be represented in the same numbers as a G-14 or A-8 you will be disappointed.

 

Of the German aircraft that we have in Bodenplatte the G-14 and the A-8 are the mainstay of the lineup and should be represented as such in missions. To have the K-4 or D-9 be more common is just incorrect.

 

Are you talking across the front or on a per mission basis because stats and averages get really interesting there

9 hours ago, JtD said:

 

It doesn't end in September 1944. It stretches on to at least January 1945, putting November 1944 right in the middle of the time frame.

 

If of course your Bodenplatte ends in September 1944, I can see where you're coming from.

 

The Career mode is set to go until mid/end of March 1945 so we have quite a lot of time to play with.

[Legioneod]

21 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Are you talking across the front or on a per mission basis because stats and averages get really interesting there

 

The Career mode is set to go until mid/end of March 1945 so we have quite a lot of time to play with.

A bit of both I would think. I mean K-4s in actual operational use ere on average less than the G-14 or G-10. For instance in the battle of Bodenplatte itself I think there were quite a few K-4s but the number that actually flew or were operational were few.

 

Similar situation with the 262, just because there were over 1000 build doesn't mean they were common, there were only ever around 200 operational at any given time iirc. So just because the K-4 had around 1,500 produced doesn't mean they all operated at the same time.

 

Same could be said of every aircraft of course but on average the K-4 wasnt as common as the G-14 or G-10 in operational use as far I'm aware.

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I sense even more fear from the guys who refuse to fly anything other than German.

This. I notice this alot from people who only ever fly one side.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Legioneod

[MiloMorai]

There was only 2 G-6s that participated in Bodenplatte.

 

For the 401 Bf109s flown during Bodenplatte, excluding the 2 G-6s, 22.4% were K-4s, 13% were G-10s, 35% were G-14s, 29.4% were G-14/ASs.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

You can talk but you can't run away 

[BraveSirRobin]

4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Gielow said:

You can talk but you can't run away 

 

Actually, you can.  You can just go to a server with a relatively even plane set.

[Field-Ops]

I knew you would assume I only play German. Thats all this argument ever devolves into. I shouldn't even have to try and defend myself on the subject but here goes... I fly both thank you, and actually prefer the P40 when servers play the Moscow timeframe, which fights against 109F4. I was flying the P47 when it came out on KOTA and shot down some K4's. You know what plane couldnt match my P47? The 190A8... I know how that thing flies and its not easy. I'll point the finger back at you and say you are the ones afraid of having steeper competition. You want high altitude to be only allied territory in online play when you should not expect online arenas to be historically conforming.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Field-Ops

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

The lack of heavy bombers and 20x1 ratio will expose western fighters weakness.

 

Luftwaffe will reign supreme the skies over BOBP    

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

I knew you would assume I only play German. Thats all this argument ever devolves into. I shouldn't even have to try and defend myself on the subject but here goes... I fly both thank you, and actually prefer the P40 when servers play the Moscow timeframe, which fights against 109F4. I was flying the P47 when it came out on KOTA and shot down some K4's. You know what plane couldnt match my P47? The 190A8... I know how that thing flies and its not easy. I'll point the finger back at you and say you are the ones afraid of having steeper competition. You want high altitude to be only allied territory in online play when you should not expect online arenas to be historically conforming.

 

Who are you talking to?

 

BTW, if you get off by flying crappy aircraft against overwhelming enemy numbers, go ahead and fly on the German uber aircraft server.  I’m sure the Hartmanns will be happy to see you.  But I suspect most people will be going to a server with relatively even plane sets.

[Field-Ops]

30 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Who are you talking to?

 

BTW, if you get off by flying crappy aircraft against overwhelming enemy numbers, go ahead and fly on the German uber aircraft server.  I’m sure the Hartmanns will be happy to see you.  But I suspect most people will be going to a server with relatively even plane sets.

Both you and Legioneod, but you didnt need me to tell you that I'm sure. 

 

I'm saying without proper competition flying allied will get boring. You can stop with the personal insults now. 

[Luftschiff]

When a new allied fighter is introduced people afraid of it are accused of being Blue Only Whiners. When a new German fighter is being introduced the people NOT calling it overpowered and broken beyond belief are accused of being Blue Only Whiners. Can't we accuse and throw slurs in both directions like gentlemen? Or preferably not at all? There are so many old tropes about the other side floating around these forums that aren't true anymore, and mudfights do us no good. Frankly, it's tiring. 

This happen every single time a plane is introduced, regardless of side, and yet people remain spread across the teams and spread across the planes once that two-week honeymoon is over. Some people fly only blue, some people fly only red. Most, I suspect, play the outnumbered side, and the aces of whatever nationality will ruin your day regardless of plane. Have no fear, Commisers, when I get my hands on the 262 you will have no shortage of jet kills on your score list. 

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

Both you and Legioneod, but you didnt need me to tell you that I'm sure. 

 

I'm saying without proper competition flying allied will get boring. You can stop with the personal insults now. 

 

I’m not insulting anyone.  You want to fly outnumbered in crappy aircraft, I’m sure there will be a server for you.  If you took that as an insult, then you must set the bar pretty damned low for being insulted.

[Luftschiff]

Please just show me pretty pictures of the sharkbird, and tell me relevant facts about the plane like I know you want to. 

[Field-Ops]

Maybe its just how you convey youself BSR, but "getting off" implies I degrade myself to masochism. What is that if not a insult to my character? Anywho I've got a PC build to distract myself from this...

[BraveSirRobin]

4 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

Maybe its just how you convey youself BSR, but "getting off" implies I degrade myself to masochism.

 

That’s not what it means.  It means that you REALLY enjoy something.  

[Field-Ops]

[CountZero]

10 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Even the Spitfire wasn’t all that common if you look at the NW Europe operational theatre and they operated 90% of the time as fighter bombers, not as fighters. So why not limit them as well if you want to go down that road.

Normal thing is you limit number of all airplanes on mission, you just use different limit numbers depending on % of their availability for that battle mission is depicting, no one is asking for limits only on one type, wol has limited numbers on all airplanes, just some are more available some not depending on how comon it was. If there was 240 of Spit 9s and 40 Tempests in some battle mission is made to replicate or mimic, its stupid to have same number of them available to players for that mission, why bather even make mission on any historical basis then... same goes for 1.98k4s, if 109g14 was most comon how come on mission that is suposed to be historical you get all slots full of 1.98k4s in air and no g14s   i realy dont understand how unlimited airplanes and mods can be on server or mission that is caled historical or even semihistorical, its pure fantasy land then, and thats what MP on some servers is at moment and will be when 262 comes.

Edited February 10, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[ACG_Kroko]

Excuse me guys and gals, but why all the aversion and hysteria around this aircraft?

[Luftschiff]

It's a new plane. 

[Legioneod]

4 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

I knew you would assume I only play German. Thats all this argument ever devolves into. I shouldn't even have to try and defend myself on the subject but here goes... I fly both thank you, and actually prefer the P40 when servers play the Moscow timeframe, which fights against 109F4. I was flying the P47 when it came out on KOTA and shot down some K4's. You know what plane couldnt match my P47? The 190A8... I know how that thing flies and its not easy. I'll point the finger back at you and say you are the ones afraid of having steeper competition. You want high altitude to be only allied territory in online play when you should not expect online arenas to be historically conforming.

 

I fly both sides and the A8 is a good match for the P-47. The problem is with the P-47 modeling and the A8 overheating. Currently the P-47 is modeled very incorrectly and can use flaps to become a UFO and turn and float like crazy. If they modeled the P-47 accurately it would be a very good match for the A8. The A8 would have the advantage down low and the P-47 would be better up high just like it was irl, the problem is the P-47 is broken.

 

I like the K-4 but I don't want to see it or fly it every single mission, G-14 was more common a majority of the time and should be represented. Same situation with the A8 vs D9. Would be nice to have a A9 which was a hotrod of the Anton series.

 

Also fighting against 1.98 K-4 when allies dont even get late war power settings and the P-47 has a gimped engine is very annoying and ruins the fun very quickly.

 

3 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Normal thing is you limit number of all airplanes on mission, you just use different limit numbers depending on % of their availability for that battle mission is depicting, no one is asking for limits only on one type, wol has limited numbers on all airplanes, just some are more available some not depending on how comon it was. If there was 240 of Spit 9s and 40 Tempests in some battle mission is made to replicate or mimic, its stupid to have same number of them available to players for that mission, why bather even make mission on any historical basis then... same goes for 1.98k4s, if 109g14 was most comon how come on mission that is suposed to be historical you get all slots full of 1.98k4s in air and no g14s   i realy dont understand how unlimited airplanes and mods can be on server or mission that is caled historical or even semihistorical, its pure fantasy land then, and thats what MP on some servers is at moment and will be when 262 comes.

This.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Legioneod

[357th_Dog]

2 hours ago, I./ZG1_Krokodilor said:

Excuse me guys and gals, but why all the aversion and hysteria around this aircraft?

One side wanting it to be an uber plane and laboring under the notion that the Germans were never technologically defeated..

and the other side not wanting to have to think of new ways to deal with a very fast aircraft that can easily walk away from even the fastest allied piston fighter in a straight line at any altitude.